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Thread: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

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    Avalon Member Tangri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Hi Tangri.

    This has not been posted in this thread yet, although it is all over PA.



    In answer to your question in regards to skeletons, Credo does discuss some of the things that he has had to do in order to gain knowledge. He has eaten Grey flesh, and, if memory serves me, human flesh as well. I'm sure there are other things he has done also in his search for knowledge, to become the keeper of traditions that he is. The secret societies in Africa are like societies of that sort elsewhere in the world, and they all often require things of their aspirants that are outside of the range of normative human ability, as proof that the individual is willing to sacrifice substantially in order to gain knowledge.
    I wish video is shorter than 5.5 hours long. I am sure it is interesting but my leisure time is very limited.

    Ok ,Ok, I will try to listen any way.

    In 15:00 gives some clue what he accepted to become a shaman.
    Last edited by Tangri; 28th January 2015 at 23:05.
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    [QUOTE=Bill Ryan;927235]
    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)

    Though knowing very well how these kinds of threads tend to go ... i believe it's time to withdraw my participation here now.


    I suppose you could call it Civilized & intelligent this debate but MONEY IS INVOLVED ..... Credo is supposedly owed money by Michael over book & dvd sales.. He has a signed contract which was NOT & has NOT been honoured its ALL mentioned in his interview with Albert i SUGGEST PEOPLE WATCH THAT INTERVIEW ASWELL !!! it will give you another angle on all this
    Last edited by Mutchie; 29th January 2015 at 01:49.
    You ever feel like your just falling forever ....no point in it ... no purpose what a way to GO .

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Hi Bill,

    I remember, you were in life threat moment at johannesburg airport. Was it after Credo visit or at different time?
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote It is all about context. If she were speaking generally of popular understanding, yes. It is a great point. But we are talking about Credo Mutwah here and so, contextually, her comment was about him and the traditions that he personifies. The underlying implication being, Tellinger can be trusted because the traditions Credo represents may be compromised by the Chitauli. The specific inclusion of the Ancestor Veneration tradition is where I find offense. That is not reptilian-based. No more so than any human ancestor who has some form of reptilian DNA, which, according to the general understanding, should be pretty much all of us to a greater or lesser extent.
    It is an affront, indeed, Rahkyt. Ancestor veneration is a dynamic complex of relationships that the Indo-European peoples have lost and both confuses and terrifies them. The South Dakota state legislature ordered the Lakota to release their "spirits," i.e., "ancestors," in the 1930s. That was the decade when the Bureau of Indian Affairs ordered Indians to stop dancing, which included the Sun Dance and other rituals. A law requiring Indians to release their spirits sounds so bizarre now that it is hard to believe. But, one thing that's easy to believe is that the Indo-European wanted to ban the Ancestors. If it was as easy as passing a law the Ancestors would be long gone, but the Ancestors continue their work to bring their descendants enlightenment.

    They are as human in light body as they were in flesh bodies. Last March (2014), Wallace Black Elk visited me for the first time since 2004, when he passed from life in the flesh. I was so stunned that I could only say, "Grandfather, I don't know what to say." He said he is no longer a grandfather now that he's passed over. He's an elder now. Then he left. Two days later I received an email from the anthropologist who wrote an article about Black Elk's interpretation of the Hopi Prophecy Rock in 1975. He provided me with vitally important information about Black Elk and gave me his blessings. Then our correspondence ended.

    Several days later I realized the "trouble-time" Black Elk had prophesied in 1975 had arrived in April 2014, and I published his prophecy. Although I have no blood relationship with Wallace, his blessing of my sacred pipe brought me into his lineage. I encountered Wallace Black Elk's grandfather, Nick, the first time I did a sweat lodge with Wallace in 1987. He was pleased that I had met his ancestor when we talked about it.

    This ancestral lineage includes true human star ancestors as well as Wallace, who is now an elder. http://www.allstarroundup.com/ufo/blackelk.html

    Ancestor relationships are central to true human evolution of the mind and soul as well as the body. In a way, those who have lost the human connection of the species with its origin in mind and soul are to be pitied and helped to understand the dynamics of true human existence across generations. It's a process of expanding the mind of the human species.
    Last edited by krsanna; 30th January 2015 at 05:27.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by Tangri (here)
    Hi Bill,

    I remember, you were in life threat moment at Johannesburg airport. Was it after Credo visit or at different time?
    It was at the end of that same visit.

    For the benefit of those who don't know or remember this strange and dramatic little story, David Icke and I had arrived at Joburg airport where I saw him on to his flight back to the UK. I then had to wait several days until my own.

    I considered going into town to find a place to stay, but IMMEDIATELY felt a great personal danger — which was quite unspecified. But it was so clear and present that I decided to stop right there in the airport, in one of the well-lit and monitored café areas, which was open 24/7, and just not move.

    After staying up all that first night, I realized I wasn't going to be able to continue like that for several more days. So I decided to change my flight to get out of there fast, and just managed to get one last seat on standby which magically became available at the exact moment I was standing at the ticket desk. As I boarded the plane, just a few hours later, I had the tangible feeling of having successfully managed to escape something bad. What it was, I never knew.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 30th January 2015 at 17:20.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tangri (here)
    Hi Bill,

    I remember, you were in life threat moment at Johannesburg airport. Was it after Credo visit or at different time?
    It was at the end of that same visit.

    For the benefit of those who don't know or remember this strange and dramatic little story, David Icke and I had arrived at Joburg airport where I saw him on to his flight back to the UK. I then had to wait several days until my own.

    I considered going into town to find a place to stay, but IMMEDIATELY felt a great personal danger — which was quite unspecified. But it was so clear and present that I decided to stop right there in the airport, in one of the well-lit and monitored café areas, which was open 24/7, and just not move.

    After staying up all that first night, I realized I wasn't going to be able to continue like that for several more days. So I decided to change my flight to get out of there fast, and just managed to get one last seat on standby which magically became available at the exact moment I was standing at the ticket desk. As I boarded the plane, just a few hours later, I had the tangible feeling of having successfully managed to escape something bad. What it was, I never knew.

    Now that is an excellent example of how intuition is supposed to work.
    We all need to pay attention.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    If I could Jaunt/teleport myself and people at-will...
    Hey! A fellow aficionado of Alfred Bester!

    Sorry, had to rejoice...

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    I feel your pain and concern, Rahkyt, and I certainly don't mean to create more polarity in this discussion, but perhaps a different perspective.
    I have very little experience with African culture, but I have been profoundly affected by Native American culture, and have spent past lives within that culture that are still resonating strongly for me today.
    Every time I participate in Native American ceremonies, I feel such waves of nostalgia and homesickness for a way of life long gone, that I invariably weep, and I rarely do that.
    Native Americans have an energy that feels like home to me, even though I have no recent N.A. blood in my bloodline that I am aware of.
    But equally strong for me is the feeling that I have for my soul group, and I know that I and the other members of my soul group have spent lifetimes in many, many different cultures over the centuries on this planet.
    So for me, the ancestors of my blood line in this particular incarnation are not more important than the bloodline ancestors I had in other incarnations, though more recent ones are no doubt affecting me in this lifetime more than earlier ones.
    What is most important to me is my soul's progression as an Earth human, a citizen of Earth, and whatever ET DNA imprints that my soul has, carried over from many incarnations on this ET-seeded planet (and most probably) on other planets as well.

    You wrote:
    Quote Implying that Credo is being influenced by negative beings and traditions, though, is beyond the pale.
    I have met a few high beings in this life who I would say are probably in a similar category as Credo as far as spiritual advancement, but I have to say that I think that everyone on this planet has unwittingly been influenced to some extent by negative beings and traditions, such as those which the Annunaki and Draconis have reportedly introduced in many insidious ways onto our planet.
    Though it appears that even those who are just awakening now, as well as those those who have been awake, are beginning to see through their ruses now.
    But even the latter have probably only gotten glimpses of the magnitude of such influences.
    I doubt very much if any one person has the whole picture, and no gray areas.
    Fortunately, there have also been positive influences, but being able to tell the difference between genuinely positive influences and those which look positive but which have actually been designed to deceive is a challenge that we have to join forces in order to distinguish.

    One thing that I think must happen if that is to occur is for the patriarchal system we have been living under to dissolve and reform into something much more like the one that has always existed in matriarchal circles, where there is much more egalitarian spirit, and responsibility does not rest primarily on one person's shoulders, but equally on the shoulders of all members.
    It probably wouldn't be obvious why that might be an issue in this particular discussion to most men, but to women who have been in matriarchal circles, I think it will be.
    Elevating one patriarch to the status where it is unthinkable to even contradict him in a controversy is an aspect of patriarchy which has gotten us into a lot of trouble over the centuries, imho, and I think that might apply to Credo as well as to any other patriarch.
    And I would most certainly apply that to patriarchs in my own soul group as well, so please don't take that personally or as being rooted in prejudice.

    Just my two cents.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    i think youre really reaching here, Rahykt. i think Kerry makes a good point. i fail to see anything even remotely disturbing about that paragraph youve quoted. she's simply saying we shouldn't be careless with our reverence.
    It is all about context. If she were speaking generally of popular understanding, yes. It is a great point. But we are talking about Credo Mutwah here and so, contextually, her comment was about him and the traditions that he personifies. The underlying implication being, Tellinger can be trusted because the traditions Credo represents may be compromised by the Chitauli. The specific inclusion of the Ancestor Veneration tradition is where I find offense. That is not reptilian-based. No more so than any human ancestor who has some form of reptilian DNA, which, according to the general understanding, should be pretty much all of us to a greater or lesser extent.

    That you see nothing disturbing about the paragraph speaks to your perspective and your knowledge, or lack thereof, of African traditions and spiritual systems. I am quite knowledgeable about these systems, having studied them and participated in them now for decades. There are indeed negative aspects of any system of worship, of extraterrestrial intervention in human affairs, of purposes and intentions at higher dimensional levels and of our ability to understand them in our limited 3D modalities of interpretation. African spiritual systems are renowned for being balanced, for expressing both polarities, as are most indigenous systems, of recognizing negative as well as positive entities, powers, principalities. The same can be said of all Eastern systems and Mesoamerican systems as well.

    Implying that Credo is being influenced by negative beings and traditions, though, is beyond the pale.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    this isnt anything you dont know, of course. which makes your reaction here even more baffling. i think Kerry was warning us not to regard our ancestors as our ancestors did the ET's. thats not to suggest we should disregard or disrespect them either. it simply means we should balance our reverence with our discernment.
    Your bafflement is probably shared by many people who are also less familiar with the traditions that Credo invokes. I understand. When invoking the Honored Ancestors and impugning their orientation, one is opening a can of worms that has multidimensional ramifications. My response is not just coming from me. My response is coming from my DNA. From my Ancestors. Thousands upon thousands of them, with me, in me, rejecting her characterization of our Being as negative or even potentially so. It is an affront at the very deepest level. Perhaps this short article will help to clarify why the specific use of the term Ancestor is more than just a general term to imply a progenitor, but a word that encompasses much that is good about communal societies that live within the cyclic understanding of life and its holistic and sustainable nature.
    Last edited by onawah; 31st January 2015 at 02:54.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Here's the facts as I see them (if a random person may weigh in here...):

    I was contacted by several women over the course of a few weeks prior to Christmas last year who had discovered one another on the ITCCS- Kevin Annett FB page. One of these women had been publicly smeared by Kevin Annett and another had been kicked out of her home because of him.

    I interviewed these two women and published these interviews on YouTube. A third woman, who claimed she has known Kevin for several years also stated that he had been trying to advance their relationship into a sexual one.

    This woman knows Alfred as well and as a friend, asked him what she should do (she was to be doing some PR work for the ITCCS and was asked by Kevin to also fabricate some evidence).

    Alfred stated to me that this was when he decided Kevin was no good. Alfred then interviewed Alex Hunter and Wa7sek which precipitated Kevin Annett threatening them with a 'grand jury' on the 26th of January to recover his reputation.

    The fall-out has been a combination of rumor-mongering and finger pointing by all parties because anyone who wants to gain the lost leverage caused by their association with Annett is seeking out others who associate or claim to support Annett and make a news headline out of them.

    Tellinger never said he supported Annett. But now this has turned into a mud-slinging competition because of some rumor that he did...The question that was never asked is WHO started that rumor in the first place? And rather than deal with his concerns with Tellinger privately until all the facts are known, Alfred has chosen to air all the correspondence between them. This is not fair and balanced journalism, IMO.

    It is my belief that these issues, rather than actual NEWS, have generated sufficient publicity for Alfred that has legitimized his latest venture. While I am in NO WAY a fan of Annett, it must be said that Alfred's launch of NEWSINSIDEOUT coincided neatly with downfall of Kevin Annett and I think it will be difficult for most people to see through the fog of confusion to who everybody really is and what it is they are really doing.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    I'm really not sure what is being said there by Kerry... worshipping aliens= good... honoring ancestors= bad? So much wrong indeed Rahkyt....
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    it gets crazier by the day (sorry to be a bit off topic here); I thought Mel Ve was Dutch, not South African (or is she of the Afrikaans faction?- doesn't matter either way)- anyway, Mel Ve did a tremendous interview with David Icke (endorsed him) but has supposedly distanced herself from Kevin Annett; can anyone explain to me what is going on here?- I'm completely stymied...

    Larry
    For over a year I tried to warn Mel Ve about her association with Kevin Annett. She was with SWISSINDO, he was trying to get his hands on OPPT funds. I saw her as being an excellent persona for change at many levels. Annett (in my research) was a user and abuser of the Natives here in Canada. One of the players in the SWISSINDO movement (Deryl Zelaney - not his real name) contacted a friend who contacted myself to speak with Mel over Skype. Mel was adamant in her support of Kevin despite having had a bad experience with him during his stay in Holland. The video she and Kevin did with Toos Nijenhuis is what precipitated the 'break-up' of their working relationship. Kevin then published allegations that Mel and her husband were being paid by the Vatican to smear him, and had defrauded people out of some money. He also alleged that they sabotaged the ITCCS International site - a site that was paid for and maintained by Mel Ve and Richard. This co-incided with the publishing of the names of the so-called Jurors of the ITCCS Tribunal that found Ratzinger and others guilty of crimes against humanity. The only problem is that some of the people were never asked to be jurors, no one had been provided with documentation of their duties, etc.. and no one had been sworn in. The Irish ITCCS members confronted Annett about his claims of their involvement and he smeared them too. Mel Ve later appeared on Kate of Gaia's blogtalk program to explain the fall-out and then myself and Lydia White Calf appeared on a subsequent show to help fill in the details. You can hear the show here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzjRKMLrMHk
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    The brief interview that Bill Ryan did with Credo in 2010 gives an invaluable piece of information about the area of the Sumerian Enki's domain and Ningishzida, known for astronomy. I have looked at length into Africa as a continent and South Africa in particular to discover, among other things, the obscure datum that the Great Pyramid and Adam's Calendar were built on the magnetic dip equator. That single piece of information served as a foundation for interpreting African, Greek and other mythologies with science. What did the ancient sacred sciences mean when specifying that the "Celestial Pillar" is in Africa, for example.

    Credo's indication that a megalith represented a bull, which he pressured David Icke to identify, is incredibly useful with the context of sacred sciences and mythologies tied to astronomy that Ningishzida instructed. Since seeing the interview with Credo, I've examined Michael Tellinger's hypothesis about Adam's calendar with new eyes.

    The assumption that the megalithic calendar and sites associated with it can be attributed to any one source is fallacious. The ancient repeatedly built over sacred sites over thousands of years. The Bronze Age Greeks in Great Britain carefully built near sites the earliest megalith builders had constructed thousands of years earlier. The Greeks and early builders were different cultures that built on the same sites separated by thousands of years. The Romans followed the Greeks and tore up early megalithic as thoroughly as the Greeks had preserved and built around them. Roman constructions gave their own spin to Great Britain's megaliths.

    Michael Tellinger put one heck of a spin on Africa's history by attributing the African cities to Hindu sources. The people who became modern Hindus did, in fact, wander in more than one migration. But they were not yet Hindus; moreover, one source point of Hindu symbolism can be traced to Gobekli Tepe. The Hindu evolved over time and was not born full-grown from Zeus's head, like the Greek Athena. Even Athena had precursors that Martin Bernal traced to Africa. The assumption that very ancient sites in Africa can be attributed to a single source in one period of history is preposterous. Credo cited the Phoenician on Ningishzida, who represents a distinct historical period. The gods grew in number over time.

    I greatly appreciate Bill Ryan publishing his 2010 interview with Credo. Not only did it provide a backdrop for understanding Tellinger's process of appropriating black African culture into a palatable mix for modern white Africa, but the few data Credo conveyed are immensely valuable. Tellinger's spin and finances are distractions to the value of Credo's offering, especially as these relate to milestones of the origins of humanity, the modern world and cyclic changes these are undergoing. How much of Tellinger's spin and distraction were intentional or inadvertent is sheer speculation. But one thing is certain. Tellinger's financial dealings cast a long shadow.

    Thanks, again, for publishing Credo's interview, Bill.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by mysaskcan (here)
    I'm really not sure what is being said there by Kerry... worshipping aliens= good... honoring ancestors= bad? So much wrong indeed Rahkyt....
    I believe you misread Kerry's words at all. Please read again.

    Quote "I would also urge people not to assume that indigenous people who have contact with various on and off planet races (sometimes called 'alien' which is actually incorrect since many are related to us through DNA) are not necessarily positive. Sometimes, as many of you already know, these ET races are what we call service-to-self. Just because an indigenous race claims to have knowledge and deep understanding, keep in mind that individuals as well as whole clans or tribes can easily be as mislead as any modern day human. Therefore, an unreasonable sense of awe and honoring of the so-called 'ancestors' can be misplaced and detrimental to understanding the true nature of what contribution (negative or positive) to the planet and humanity, actually is. "
    Code:
    "these ET races are what we call service-to-self
    " should not be interpreted as "worshipping aliens= good" On the contrary it carries very opposite meaning than what you understand. Being a selfish is not a good thing.

    "honoring of the so-called 'ancestors' can be misplaced and detrimental to understanding the true nature of what contribution (negative or positive) to the planet and humanity, actually is. " it does not make sense as you translated "honoring ancestors= bad"

    "so- called ancestors" is ET or terestrial aliens, not their grand grand fathers.
    Last edited by Tangri; 1st February 2015 at 01:19.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Simon Parkes speaks of Credo in glowing terms in his latest interview
    See:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post927012
    and the summary from Olaf here:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post927111
    ... where he wrote Simon said in the interview that Credo is totally genuine and has tremendous insight.

    I've PMed Kerry and asked her to tell us if she has any knowledge about financial transactions between Tellinger and Credo regarding Tellinger's claim in one interview that he paid Credo substantial royalties, and Credo's claim in a later interview that he has not received any payments at all.
    I hope that Avalon/Camelot can help to settle this controversy and resolve the conflict.
    Last edited by onawah; 1st February 2015 at 17:37.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by krsanna (here)
    The brief interview that Bill Ryan did with Credo in 2010 gives an invaluable piece of information about the area of the Sumerian Enki's domain and Ningishzida, known for astronomy....

    ...I greatly appreciate Bill Ryan publishing his 2010 interview with Credo. Not only did it provide a backdrop for understanding Tellinger's process of appropriating black African culture into a palatable mix for modern white Africa, but the few data Credo conveyed are immensely valuable. Tellinger's spin and finances are distractions to the value of Credo's offering, especially as these relate to milestones of the origins of humanity, the modern world and cyclic changes these are undergoing. How much of Tellinger's spin and distraction were intentional or inadvertent is sheer speculation. But one thing is certain. Tellinger's financial dealings cast a long shadow.

    Thanks, again, for publishing Credo's interview, Bill.
    And I really appreciate krsanna's inputs on this thread. Looking at this from a completely different angle, and depersonalizing it to rather focus on the underlying issues so incredibly highlighted in that video, I would just like to add a few additional points, since Cultural Heritage is my field, I have written a book about it, and have a Masters' dissertation related to cultural heritage currently in the process of being examined.

    This video is an absolute gem of a case study of the completely different ways that indigenous knowledge systems are viewed by indigenous people, versus the way knowledge is viewed by others. There are a number of initiatives to protect indigenous knowledge from precisely this sort of exploitation and misunderstanding.

    In the video, Credo refers to how many times people have used him. He also refers to how he conveyed the knowledge (a very, very deep honour bestowed by him) and how it was completely misrepresented, and he expresses the sense of violation he feels. This deep feeling of violation is difficult for most Westerners to understand, since they do not know the protocols surrounding indigenous knowledge.

    Indigenous knowledge systems are transmitted by means of oral history, and thus are part of the Memory of the World.

    One of the scholars in this field, Isaac, described the challenges surrounding creating a museum to preserve the indigenous knowledge of the Zuni, in New Mexico.

    The first problem was tension between the Anglo-American view that knowledge is "free for all" and the Zuni view with regard to the responsibilities of making knowledge available. The Western view is that secret knowledge gives political and economic power and privilege. In Pueblo culture, esoteric knowledge entails the need for secrecy because of the level of responsibility assigned to those with access to that knowledge. Knowledge needs to be used responsibly, and in the best interests of society. The Pueblo have the view that once knowledge leaves the protection of oral tradition, where it is appropriately contextualized, the way is open for it to be abused and used for personal gain, rather than for the good of the community. (Reference: Isaac, G. 2009. Responsibilities toward knowledge: the Zuni museum and the reconciling of different knowledge systems. In Sleeper-Smith (ed.) Contesting knowledge: Museums and Indigenous perspectives. Lincoln, NE: University of Nebraska press, (pp. 303 - 321).

    The example with the Zuni of the Pueblo culture reflects the similar view held by Africans on their indigenous knowledge. I repeat, it is a great honour to have a high level sanusi impart knowledge to one, and to then just go and reinterpret it without consulting back with Credo is the worst kind of violation. Michael Tellinger may not even have been aware of this.

    In closing, an example of where the imparting of indigenous knowledge was done properly, was in Australia with the creation of the Digital Songlines project. A set of 10 protocols were developed, and they provide a useful guide to how it should be done:

    Quote 1) Recognition of the knowledge of traditional knowledge owners as a body of knowledge;

    2) Recognize that the knowledge is sourced from traditional owners;

    3) The traditional owners and their communities themselves decide what stories can be told;

    4) Approval of the process all the way through is run by the communities/owners themselves;

    5) The knowledge represents a specific tribe/skin group and is geo-contextually located;

    6) Ownership and copyright is always retained by the traditional owner and their communities;

    7) The content, including artistic representations, is approved by the knowledge owner at all milestone stages;

    8) The knowledge presented by the owner is not modified unless this is endorsed and approved by the traditional owner/community;

    9) The owner is paid industry standard royalties on revenue earned;

    10) The traditional owner participates in all stages of the planning, design and production of the project.
    Reference: Leavy, B.A., et al. 2008. Digital Songlines: Digitising the arts, culture and heritage landscape of Aboriginal Australia. In Kalay, Y.E. et al. (eds) New Heritage: New Media and Cultural Heritage. London and New York: Routledge/Taylor & Francis (pp. 294 - 303).

    If the above protocols had been followed, it is possible that this whole nasty business could have been avoided.

    The additional complication is that Credo does not enjoy any form of protection or recognition from the post-apartheid South African government as a cultural heritage icon of the country. As extraordinary as that seems, one can liken it to Mao Tse Tung's repulsion for original Chinese wisdom in the Cultural Revolution. In the same way, only ANC politically approved cultural icons receive recognition and protection from the Party. Credo is sadly, not one of those.
    Last edited by arwen; 2nd February 2015 at 12:40.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Excellent work, Arwen! Preserving and protecting indigenous knowledge is racing neck-to-neck with globalization under the banner of One World Order. The Ancestors are running alongside the indigenous peoples to realize true human potentials, after 520 years of colonization -- October 12, 1492 to 2012. The New World Order is nothing more than total global colonization. A main difference in 2012 and 1492 is that the European (Aldebaran descendants), who financially benefited from asserting control over indigenous peoples, are themselves under the gun of conquest now. One way of looking at this is that children of missionaries who traveled the world to reform indigenous savages are now learning from indigenous teachers who have 520+ years of experience with the colonial mind and strategies. It's one heck of a culture shock for some.

    Credo did exactly what an indigenous Elder should have done with Tellinger. I wonder how personally the South African government took Credo's Black African history and how closely they got to directing the trend, if you get my drift.

    I had the privilege of chatting about precise the issues you highlight with two indigenous scholars at Thanksgiving, over a typical "Pilgrim" dinner with turkey and "all the trimmings," as Wallace Black Elk called it. One was a Chinese scholar doing his doctoral study in Native American Studies here in the U S of A. The other was a Maori scholar who came up through his traditional Maori culture in New Zealand to arrive in indigenous studies with us American Injuns. The Chinese fellow explained that the Chinese have no sense of the indigenous separated from mainstream culture. All their history is Chinese, including the "I Ching," which was the focus of my interest. The Maori friend described how the Maori was brought into New Zealand's school and mainstreamed, as he explained the situation. My indigenous heritage is by way of Stand Watie's Cherokee Cavaliers, with their own treaty and roll, and my spiritual home is with Wallace Black Elk's lineage.

    I'd like to see your book and many more Cultural Heritage scholars coming on line.
    Last edited by krsanna; 3rd February 2015 at 00:56.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    According to the Hopi people of Turtle Island, they are descendants of the Star People, who came from the stars and started life on Earth. Credo says the same about Africa. Hmm....

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote Posted by Snowflower (here)
    According to the Hopi people of Turtle Island, they are descendants of the Star People, who came from the stars and started life on Earth. Credo says the same about Africa. Hmm....
    Modern humans are a mix of numerous parent races from the stars. The turning point in modern human evolution started about 210,000 years ago, when Edgar Cayce said that Atlantis began. Humans existed on this planet side-by-side with ET races before Atlantis, but the knock-down-drag-out in Atlantis resulted in racially heated divisions among the ETs that trickled down to human descendant races. Many human races had come and gone from the planet before Atlantis. Michael Cremo reported that crafted gold artifacts were found in strata 300 MILLION years old, which means somebody was capable of using tools (crafting) and used gold intentionally hundreds of millions of years ago.

    Three main factions came to blows in Atlantis, reported in historical accounts and ET contacts: Lemuria (Arcturian and Orion) in now-sunken Pacific areas, Sumerian gods headed by Enki and Enlil in the Middle East and Aldebaran / Pleiadian Aryans of Europe. Cayce talked about all of these factions. He specifically talked about the Aryans in Atlantis and the Nazi Himmler claimed he was a reincarnated king from Atlantis. Himmler was telling the truth as he understood it.

    Each of the three main factions has its own objectives, hegemony and pedagogy.

    1) The Aldebarans told a UFO contactee in Germany the Germanic people were most like them. They are big on technology and see humans as workers they created. They envision themselves the Master Race. The DNA of western Europe is consistent with Germanic origin, typified by Queen Victoria when most ruling monarchs of Europe were related to her in one way or another.

    2) The Sumerian gods are closely related to the Semitic people, most easily recognized by their linguistic family now. They are big on monotheistic religions typified by spin-offs from Abraham's covenant, i.e., Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

    3) The Arcturians who founded Lemurians are big on sacred sciences diffused through gateways in India, Mexico and Crete / pre-Olympian Greece. (Zecharia Sitchin argues that the Olympian gods headed by Zeus originated in Sumer, and I agree with him. The pre-Olympian Greeks and Cretes were a different story. It looks like the Olympian gods did a hostile take-over circa 1177 BCE.) The Arcturians say that Native Americans are the modern race most similar to them, but their signature symbolism is present in virtually all indigenous peoples because they spanned the globe with the three main gateways in India, Mexico and Mediterranean, which includes Africa.

    The Germanic Aldebarans used their technological strength to colonize what is now the English-speaking world. English evolved from the spoken (vulgar) German language. Notice that the atomic bomb and anti-gravity were conceived and pioneered in Nazi Germany. The USA continued research on the atomic bomb from that Nazi German scientists started. The Nazis confiscated anti-gravity technology that German scientists pioneered after World War I. The same year that Operation Paperclip began importing Nazi scientists to the USA in 1947, the National Security Act was passed. It created a black hole that continually sucks up America's resources for the (Elite) military-industrial complex and releases nothing to the public. Anti-gravity technology that Nazi scientists confiscated from civilian German scientists was sucked into the black hole of national security the NSA created in America. And that's where it remains today. Look to the Constellation of the Bull (Taurus where Aldebaran is located) for answers on this one.

    Wendell Stevens reported that the Aldebarans gave anti-gravity technology to German scientists because they thought easily accessible transportation would help the people of this world understand each other's cultures. By visiting other cultures, people would learn and understand each other. When the Nazis confiscated anti-gravity, the Aldebarans sent spies / agents to alter what the Nazis had taken, making it ineffective.

    Force-strike technology of German rockets has its limits in evolving human cultures, and we are seeing the limits of toxic force-based technology and consumption with collapse of the biosphere.

    Psychology of the collective conscious / unconscious rapidly outgrew religions that Abraham inspired and are collapsing into degrading continuous war that drains all involved. Carl Jung wrote about the psychological (de)evolution of Abrahamic religions in "The Answer To Job." Sacred sciences of Indigenous peoples who scattered into Asia and America when Lemurian islands sank in the Pacific Ocean are in a renaissance with new discoveries, especially in quantum mechanics and physics. Indigenous peoples worldwide always reported Ancestors from the stars, which the monotheistic Abraham religions targeted for conversion, or their brand of salvation when deconstructing indigenous cultures.

    Numerous other ET races have hybridized their genetics with Homo sapiens on Earth. Derrel Sims, a former intelligence agency investigator, says that the genetics of all UFO abductees / contactees are either Native American or Celtic. A group in Turkey contacted Sims to let him know he was wrong, because people in Turkey were having UFO experiences. DNA testing of the Turkish UFO experiencers found they were related to a Native American tribe in the northeastern USA. A variety of ET races have dipped into Homo sapiens DNA the Arcturians introduced, because it is well tuned to Earth's planetary conditions. The Arcturians spent around 1-1/2 million years fine-tuning human DNA with various hominins. Homo sapiens is a well connected species for survival on Earth, and other ET races used it for hybridizing their genetics. The Arcturians say that Native Americans are most similar to them with true human DNA and are full blood brothers with Bigfoot, whom the Arcturians introduced shortly before Homo sapiens.

    The continuing preference for Native American genetics indicates it remains the most viable root stock, with its distinct Neanderthal characteristics. The Neanderthal period appears to be a critical turning point when the human genome separated into distinct groupings. We all have Neanderthal DNA, but the European, African and Native American Neanderthal DNA each has distinct signatures.

    Along with various ET races using the Neanderthal and Homo sapiens genome of Lemuria, Eros keeps the wheel of life turning and turning. Eros is one of the first four gods the ancient (pre-Olympian) Greeks memorialized. It remains a powerful attractive force that heated the genetic melting post for modern humans.

    My Arcturian UFO contacts said that when the war between Lemuria and Atlantis was heating up, another ET group tried to keep the Lemurian Neanderthals separated from their own Neanderthal stock so they couldn't get together. The Arcturians got a kick out of telling the story. They would send Lemurian Neanderthals back to the area where the other ET group had run them off. They knew that once the two Neanderthal groups got together they would mix it up. There was nothing the other ET group could do about it. The Neanderthals had no problem with each other and liked getting together. In the recent 2008 discovery of the Denisovan species in Siberia, archaeologists found that Denisovans and Neanderthals were cohabiting the same cave. Left to their own devices, our ancestors liked to get together.

    Lands of the world were very different 100,000 years ago from the way they are today. Europe and Africa were connected with contiguous land, because the Mediterranean Sea did not start forming until 13,000 years ago. European and African Neanderthals could hike from one zone to the other. Sea levels were much lower and there were still fresh water islands in the Atlantic Ocean with a larger land bridge that connected North America with Nordic regions than there is today. Norway's indigenous Sami people used teepees identical to those in the Pacific Northwest and Canada.

    The Hopi and Credo are both right. Their ancestors came from the stars.
    Last edited by krsanna; 3rd February 2015 at 22:12.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's 2010 interview with Credo Mutwa about Michael Tellinger

    Quote "I would also urge people not to assume that indigenous people who have contact with various on and off planet races (sometimes called 'alien' which is actually incorrect since many are related to us through DNA) are not necessarily positive. Sometimes, as many of you already know, these ET races are what we call service-to-self. Just because an indigenous race claims to have knowledge and deep understanding, keep in mind that individuals as well as whole clans or tribes can easily be as mislead as any modern day human. Therefore, an unreasonable sense of awe and honoring of the so-called 'ancestors' can be misplaced and detrimental to understanding the true nature of what contribution (negative or positive) to the planet and humanity, actually is. "
    Is claimed "service" another way of articulating hubris? The road to hell is paved with good intentions on the heels of ordinary human limits.

    English is a language of commerce and trade with sparse language for consciousness or flying craft reported in ancient literature. English speakers have borrowed the language of consciousness from Sanskrit: Chakra, karma and kundalini are all borrowed from Sanskrit, because English has no equivalent words for the concepts.

    Vimana describes circular flying craft in Hindu literature from the Sanskrit language. The term UFO for Unidentified Flying Object that the American Air Force introduced with reports of flying disks provides no meaningful information. UFO means exactly nothing for describing interstellar craft that the Ancestors use, whether circular, triangular or pyramidal. English speakers are perhaps the most illiterate people on Earth when it comes to the Ancestors' technologies and consciousness. They have precious little vocabulary expressing it. Yet they presume to identify the good, the bad and the ugly of all extraterrestrial (ET) presences, and invent pretext for claimed authority.

    One ET group is not necessarily equal to all other extraterrestrials. Anybody who claims to know about all ET groups is sincerely deluded or jiving. With widespread EurAmerican ignorance of American Indian culture, not to mention indigenous peoples worldwide, few can speak with authority about indigenous Ancestors. I can speak for my own experiences, as does the chief, and let others do the same. English speakers, in particular, possess few resources for bridging the cultural gap between their commerce-driven society and the economy of consciousness of the indigenous.

    See Chief Golden Light Eagle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO9Rz...ature=youtu.be

    Chief Golden Light Eagle talks about the Law of Light and a completely dark lodge lighting up when his uncle prayed. I have seen this happen and had a 1963 UFO contact that was extremely similar to the one he described. As I recall, Golden Light Eagle is Wallace Black Elk's nephew. Wallace and I both had UFO / ET contact with Star Ancestors, which I briefly describe. http://www.allstarroundup.com/ufo/blackelk.html
    Last edited by krsanna; 4th February 2015 at 01:48.

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    Default Michael Tellinger Criticism

    Dear Group,

    I can see that Credo Mutwa has some criticisms of Michael Tellinger, yet I find the accusations by Johan Engelbrecht to be very disturbing if they are true. In this interview he discusses how he appears to have been defrauded by Michael when trying to get his book published. Has anybody else seen this or have any comments?



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