Mummified monk is ‘not dead’ and in rare meditative state, says expert

[Azt]

A mummified monk found in the lotus position in Mongolia is 'not dead' and is instead one stage away from becoming a real-life Buddha, it has been claimed.

Forensic examinations are under way on the amazing remains, which are believed to be around 200 years old, having been preserved in animal skin. But one expert has insisted the human relic is actually in 'very deep meditation' and in a rare and very special spiritual state known as 'tukdam'.

Over the last 50 years there are said to have been 40 such cases in India involving meditating Tibetan monks.

Dr Barry Kerzin, a famous Buddhist monk and a physician to the Dalai Lama, said: 'I had the privilege to take care of some meditators who were in a tukdam state.

'If the person is able to remain in this state for more than three weeks - which rarely happens - his body gradually shrinks, and in the end all that remains from the person is his hair, nails, and clothes. Usually in this case, people who live next to the monk see a rainbow that glows in the sky for several days. This means that he has found a 'rainbow body'. This is the highest state close to the state of Buddha'.

Source: http://siberiantimes.com/other/other...e-says-expert/

[Theodora]

This is a wonderful story of transformation-remarkable. Thank-you for sharing Azt, I was not aware of tukdam.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Pretty cool. I was expecting some kind of lame hoaxy article but this is actually pretty deeply spiritual. The Asians (at least some of them) are all about this kind of thing.


Reminds me of some stuff I read in the Tibetan Book of the Dead actually.

[kemo]

Reminds me of the "dead parrot" sketch - though obviously not pining for the fjords of Norway!

[RMorgan]

No, of course not, he's not dead.

Look at his soft skin, his lively eyes and his silky hair! Does he look dead to you? Looks like he's about to get up and start rapping, yo! lol

Sorry for joking guys; I don't mean to offend anyone but this one is so funny!

I'm pretty curious to see how this "expert" achieved the conclusion that this mummy is somehow alive.

Be suspicious whenever someone evokes the word expert, specially without naming names, showing any data or credentials. This is the typical appeal to authority fallacy, commonly used as an attempt to falsely provide a sense credibility to something.

Cheers,

Raf.

[kemo]

".... it is a stiff, bereft of life ..."

Ask him to tell you a joke.

Sorry, can't resist.

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
No, of course not, he's not dead.

Look at his soft skin, his lively eyes and his silky hair! Does he look dead to you? Looks like he's about to get up and start rapping, yo! lol

Sorry for joking guys; I don't mean to offend anyone but this one is so funny!

I'm pretty curious to see how this "expert" achieved the conclusion that this mummy is somehow alive.

Be suspicious whenever someone evokes the word expert, specially without naming names, showing any data or credentials. This is the typical appeal to authority fallacy, commonly used as an attempt to falsely provide a sense credibility to something.

Cheers,

Raf.

The expert has actually done some research into the many documented cases (many thousands, actually) of people who have achieved the Rainbow Body, you have not. This is a real thing. Look it up. There are many books on the subject. This body is not "mummified". This is what happens when people attain the Rainbow Body. This is one of the highest attainments in Vajrayana Buddhism. It is said that the person doesn't die in the usual way, it's just that, during meditation (which for this guy is apparently still in progress), their light body liberates itself (which creates a visual spectacle, one which many people have witnessed) and then they can go wherever they please. But out of compassion such a person will most likely choose to be reborn on the Earth again to help awaken humanity. They are not expecting the physical body to come back to life though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_body

[Sunny-side-up]

Posted by kemo (here)
Reminds me of the "dead parrot" sketch - though obviously not pining for the fjords of Norway!

Funny you should add the 'pining for the fjords' Quote from the Monty-Crew, because wasn't there recently an OP about a Living-Viking found in a tomb? The one with the long golden hair and beard! (might not have been viking, maybe northern European?)

Reminds me of the 'Sorcerer' a being with great powers that has to sleep until called to action when the appropriate time comes, which if I'm not mistaken is within a few years!
They sleep but are Awake, they watch and wait, conserving/building energies, outside of the daily toils not getting contaminated by Human-passing of the years.

[RMorgan]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)

The expert has actually done some research into the many documented cases (many thousands, actually) of people who have achieved the Rainbow Body, you have not. This is a real thing. Look it up. There are many books on the subject. This body is not "mummified". This is what happens when people attain the Rainbow Body. This is one of the highest attainments in Vajrayana Buddhism. It is said that the person doesn't die in the usual way, it's just that, during meditation (which for this guy is apparently still in progress), their light body liberates itself (which creates a visual spectacle, one which many people have witnessed) and then they can go wherever they please. But out of compassion such a person will most likely choose to be reborn on the Earth again to help awaken humanity. They are not expecting the physical body to come back to life though.

All right...I'd like to see a few of those cases which were not "documented" by Buddhists themselves. I mean, unbiased, scientifically sound reports, preferably from different independent and credible sources.

I'd also like to see a genuine case of "rainbow bodies" being naturally preserved on environments that do not propitiate natural tissue preservation/mummification, like a hot and humid tropical forest, not a dry desert or a freezing mountain.

Buddhists are free to believe it, anyway. It's a religion and religious concepts don't require evidence...Just the contrary in fact; To have faith is to believe things without evidence.

However, from a secularist standpoint, there's absolutely no scientific reason to suspect that this is not just another case of natural mummification.

Raf.

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by RMorgan (here)

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)

The expert has actually done some research into the many documented cases (many thousands, actually) of people who have achieved the Rainbow Body, you have not. This is a real thing. Look it up. There are many books on the subject. This body is not "mummified". This is what happens when people attain the Rainbow Body. This is one of the highest attainments in Vajrayana Buddhism. It is said that the person doesn't die in the usual way, it's just that, during meditation (which for this guy is apparently still in progress), their light body liberates itself (which creates a visual spectacle, one which many people have witnessed) and then they can go wherever they please. But out of compassion such a person will most likely choose to be reborn on the Earth again to help awaken humanity. They are not expecting the physical body to come back to life though.

All right...I'd like to see a few of those cases which were not "documented" by Buddhists themselves. I mean, unbiased, scientifically sound reports, preferably from different independent and credible sources.

There was a Catholic priest named Father Tiso who investigated the phenomenon and he concluded it was real. This is not intended to be proof of it, but a jumping off point for your own investigation of the subject.

I'd also like to see a genuine case of "rainbow bodies" being naturally preserved on environments that do not propitiate natural tissue preservation/mummification, like a hot and humid tropical forest, not a dry desert or a freezing mountain.

Yes, I'm sure you'd like all the evidence you can dream of handed to you on a silver platter, as skeptics often do. Unfortunately, it when comes to certain mysterious subjects, you'll find it hard to get anywhere that way. Buddhists are not seeking to scientifically prove the phenomenon, and scientists are too caught up in their materialist box to go through the trouble of investigating the subject properly. So that means you have to either do it yourself, or read the books of other people who have tried their best to do it themselves.

Buddhists are free to believe it, anyway. It's a religion and religious concepts don't require evidence...Just the contrary in fact; To have faith is to believe things without evidence.

However, from a secularist standpoint, there's absolutely no scientific reason to suspect that this is not just another case of natural mummification.

Raf.

You are welcome to make that assumption. Although it would be prior to having anything but the most cursory knowledge of the subject. *shrug*

David Wilcock has done a series episodes on the Rainbow Body on his Gaiam TV show where he presents some evidence for it. For those interested, I suggest you get the free 10 day trial and watch his presentations.

[RMorgan]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Yes, I'm sure you'd like all the evidence you can dream of handed to you on a silver platter, as skeptics often do.

If it's a real phenomena, I'm sure there must be a pile of evidence to be presented about it, right?

And, to be honest, semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit. The burden of proof always lies with the person who lays the claim.

So, yeah, if anyone wants this subjected to be taken seriously outside the field of religion, they must present evidence. The silver plate isn't required, though.

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
David Wilcock has done a series episodes on the Rainbow Body on his Gaiam TV show where he presents some evidence for it. For those interested, I suggest you get the free 10 day trial and watch his presentations.

Sure, if David Wilcock says it, then it must be true. After all, he's got an impeccable record of correctness, right? Wait a minute...

Anyway, sorry brother. I didn't mean be be confrontational. This wont take us anywhere.

All the best,

Raf.

[MorningFox]

Got to love people that talk with conviction about that which they have no knowledge or understanding of...

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by RMorgan (here)

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Yes, I'm sure you'd like all the evidence you can dream of handed to you on a silver platter, as skeptics often do.

If it's a real phenomena, I'm sure there must be a pile of evidence to be presented about it, right?

And, to be honest, semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit. The burden of proof always lies with the person who lays the claim.

So, yeah, if anyone wants this subjected to be taken seriously outside the field of religion, they must present evidence. The silver plate isn't required, though.

The evidence is out there, if you want it, go look for it.

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
David Wilcock has done a series episodes on the Rainbow Body on his Gaiam TV show where he presents some evidence for it. For those interested, I suggest you get the free 10 day trial and watch his presentations.

Sure, if David Wilcock says it, then it must be true. After all, he's got an impeccable record of correctness, right? Wait a minute...

Yes, attack the messenger, refuse to hear them out....I think that must be some kind of logical fallacy, isn't it? Surely they have a fancy latin name for that. Anyway, he basically did some very basic research that anyone could do by simply suspending their disbelief temporarily in order to actually crack a book on the subject.

Anyway, sorry brother. I didn't mean be be confrontational. This wont take us anywhere.

All the best,

Raf.

Well, to be fair, I have probably come off pretty confrontational. I'm just sick of lazy ass skeptics expecting me to do all their work for them when it comes to unraveling all the mysteries of existence.

[RMorgan]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Yes, attack the messenger, refuse to hear them out....I think that must be some kind of logical fallacy, isn't it? Surely they have a fancy latin name for that. Anyway, he basically did some very basic research that anyone could do by simply suspending their disbelief temporarily in order to actually crack a book on the subject.

Yes. Attacking the messenger is a fallacy, unless the messenger is a charlatan who's in the business of selling lies to gullible people since 1999 (There's no need to remember people about his ascension2000 website and from his epic 2012 fiasco)

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Well, to be fair, I have probably come off pretty confrontational. I'm just sick of lazy ass skeptics expecting me to do all their work for them when it comes to unraveling all the mysteries of existence.

You see, skeptics are not lazy. Critical thought is the opposed absolute of intellectual laziness. It's a very energy demanding process....Believing is quite easy, though; All you have to do is to accept something without questioning.

It's a common and necessary agreement that the burden of proof should be in the hands of those asserting a claim. There's a reason for that, you know?

The person asserting a claim is always the one who's got something to win in case he manages to convince people of his idea. He might be writing a theses, writing a book, working on a theory, defending a belief system...It doesn't matter. If he wants to convince people that his claim is correct, it's because it matters to him financially, psychologically, philosophically, theologically, spiritually or whatever. It's his business.

Could you imagine what would happen if everyone had the obligation to "disprove" every single idea out there? People wouldn't have time for anything else, including to develop their own hypothesis and ideas. It would be a crazy world where scientific development would be literally impossible.

What if skeptics had to "disprove" every single crazy idea out there? They wouldn't even have the time to eat.

However, for the person who's laying a claim, it's not only feasible but pleasurable to spend his hours trying to prove his point. It's his field, his research, his passion, his mission, his claim after all.

That's why, in this case, the "expert" asserting that the mummy is alive is obliged to prove it. It's his work. His assertion. He's the expert. right? If he's an expert, he must know what he's talking about. If he knows what he's talking about, then he must certainly have conditions to clearly demonstrate the rationale behind his convictions...If there's indeed any rationale to demonstrate.

Again, I'm talking from a secularist standpoint, from a position where reality transcends beliefs. If it's a matter of faith, of belief, then anyone can claim whatever they want because neither faith or beliefs have absolutely no obligatory connection with reality.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by RMorgan (here)

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Yes, attack the messenger, refuse to hear them out....I think that must be some kind of logical fallacy, isn't it? Surely they have a fancy latin name for that. Anyway, he basically did some very basic research that anyone could do by simply suspending their disbelief temporarily in order to actually crack a book on the subject.

Yes. Attacking the messenger is a fallacy, unless the messenger is a charlatan who's in the business of selling lies to gullible people since 1999 (There's no need to remember people about his ascension2000 website and from his epic 2012 fiasco)

Yeah's he's been wrong about some things. Feel free to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately, he's the only person I can think of who has done a comprehensive presentation on the subject.

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Well, to be fair, I have probably come off pretty confrontational. I'm just sick of lazy ass skeptics expecting me to do all their work for them when it comes to unraveling all the mysteries of existence.

Posted by RMorgan
You see, skeptics are not lazy. Critical thought is the opposed absolute of intellectual laziness. It's a very energy demanding process....Believing is quite easy, though; All you have to do is to accept something without questioning.

It's a common and necessary agreement that the burden of proof should be in the hands of those asserting a claim. There's a reason for that, you know?

The person asserting a claim is always the one who's got something to win in case he manages to convince people of his idea. He might be writing a theses, writing a book, working on a theory, defending a belief system...It doesn't matter. If he wants to convince people that his claim is correct, it's because it matters to him financially, psychologically, philosophically, theologically, spiritually or whatever. It's his business.

Could you imagine what would happen if everyone had the obligation to "disprove" every single idea out there? People wouldn't have time for anything else, including to develop their own hypothesis and ideas. It would be a crazy world where scientific development would be literally impossible.

What if skeptics had to "disprove" every single crazy idea out there? They wouldn't even have the time to eat.

However, for the person who's laying a claim, it's not only feasible but pleasurable to spend his hours trying to prove his point. It's his field, his research, his passion, his mission, his claim after all.

That's why, in this case, the "expert" asserting that the mummy is alive is obliged to prove it. It's his work. His assertion. He's the expert. right? If he's an expert, he must know what he's talking about. If he knows what he's talking about, then he must certainly have conditions to clearly demonstrate the rationale behind his convictions...If there's indeed any rationale to demonstrate.

Again, I'm talking from a secularist standpoint, from a position where reality transcends beliefs. If it's a matter of faith, of belief, then anyone can claim whatever they want because neither faith or beliefs have absolutely no obligatory connection with reality.

Cheers,

Raf.

Yes, I understand. I know how these things work. You don't have to lecture me. However, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just putting in my 2 cents and saying there's something here if you bother to look into it. I've offered you some clues and have done my best to point your in the right direction. I actually don't care what you believe, or anyone else. I'm not interested in proving anything to anyone.

If I ever wanted to know anything in my life, I never waited around to try to get other people to do my homework for me. I read everything I could on the subject, went as far as I could in the way getting access to the best sources, talked to people who might know about the subject, and perhaps even engaged in some subjective experiments that might afford some clues. But for the average skeptic, that's way too much to expect from them. Because they are lazy.

[shadowstalker]

Well if anyone has a list of experts and scientists that are not worried about being bumped off or there family members or worried about grands, I'd like to see it.

[Maunagarjana]

Alright, Raf.....you want to know what Dr Barry Kerzin bases his assertion on? Perhaps you could contact him directly. It's the internet age. And since I'm not a lazy skeptic, I just typed his name into a search engine and found his facebook page and twitter account. It's amazing what a little initiative can do, eh? It might be a good idea to ask him directly. This is what I'm talking about. If you wonder about something, go straight to the source.

https://www.facebook.com/barry.kerzin
https://twitter.com/barrykerzin

[RMorgan]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
If I ever wanted to know anything in my life, I never waited around to try to get other people to do my homework for me. I read everything I could on the subject, went as far as I could in the way getting access to the best sources, talked to people who might know about the subject, and perhaps even engaged in some subjective experiments that might afford some clues. But for the average skeptic, that's way too much to expect from them. Because they are lazy.

Oh man...Like I said on post #15, this isn't a humanely viable alternative.

If I had to follow these steps regarding everything I'm curious about, I wouldn't have time to do anything else and most importantly: To focus on the things that interest me the most.

That's why it's important that, again, people who make assertive claims present at least a reasonable amount of evidence to back them up. So people can invest their time studying things that have a bigger probability to be productive instead of spending their whole lives giving shots in the dark hoping to eventually hit a worthy target.

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Alright, Raf.....you want to know what Dr Barry Kerzin bases his assertion on? Perhaps you could contact him directly. It's the internet age. And since I'm not a lazy skeptic, I just typed his name into a search engine and found his facebook page and twitter account. It's amazing what a little initiative can do, eh? It might be a good idea to ask him directly. This is what I'm talking about. If you wonder about something, go straight to the source.

Thanks.

I'll drop him a note on Facebook right away.

However, since he's obviously a Buddhist, I really doubt that he will be able to answer with scientifically sounds arguments, specially when such arguments most certainly would contradict his faith.

Raf.

PS: Facebook message sent. I'll let you know if he replies.

[Cristian]

Problem is ... dr. Barry Kerzin is also a Buddhist monk. So I guess impartiality goes out the window.

Barry Kerzin is a Buddhist monk, teacher, and medical doctor.
Dr. Kerzin is the physician to HH Dalai Lama, other meditation masters, and Tibetan high lamas.

more

--------------

welcome back Raf, how's life?

[Meggings]

About the Rainbow Body I cannot speak, but I have flashes of seeing with spiritual sight, inner sight if you will. A few times I have been stunned to see this "Light Body". (It is different from the energy body, the auric sheaths, for I have seen energies around people for a long time.)

This Light Body I speak of radiates out beyond the physical body at right angles to it. It is made up of straight lines of white and crystal. I have only seen it from people in sunlight outside, and have been able to examine it closely. It radiates from all sides of, for instance, a hand. It is made up of straight transparent crystals, intermingled with opaque white lines. It is stunning. It did not move about as the auric energy bodies do. I wonder if it is related to the Rainbow Body.

Regarding the initial post I recall hearing that Edgar Cayce spoke of RA-TA and mummification as a way of keeping high consciousness "in service to" earth and mankind. I found this info on a search of internet:

"...and a request was put out for volunteers who would allow themselves to die in the physical, so that their consciousness could be suspended and held in stasis over the lengthy period that followed, so that the consciousness which would be needed at a time in the distant future, could be held in stasis and suspended animation, so that when the time was right, it would once again be released."

"... the mummies of the RA-TA experiment, their consciousness being reactivated and introduced into this time line at this time, to help the expansion of consciousness so that many who have already begun that spiritual journey can be enhanced and helped by this new flowing of stimulation to the consciousness of the planet and to humanity itself."