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Thread: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    Seems to me that science is the religion that claims ownership of that which the collective consciousness likes to believe we truly understand
    I don't see it that way.

    Listen, your computer is working, right? You car works, right? How about your refrigerator, does it work? Your lightbulbs? Your cellphone? When you have headache and take an aspirin it works, right?

    That's it, man. I'm not up to discuss the merit of how much real reality really is.

    However, science is completely opposed to religion because, well...It works.

    Religion is strictly about beliefs, science not.

    Things created through science, like those I've cited in the second sentence of this post, they keep working independently if you believe them or not.

    Religion, though, is just the opposite. Mohamed exists as a god just for the Muslims...Christ is only real for Christians....But an ipod exists for everyone, independently if you believe in ipods or not.

    There might be some people out there who worship science as it's some kind of god. These people, in fact, are anti-science.

    Science is about questioning everything, specially science itself.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 6th February 2015 at 20:47.

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    Scotland Moderator Billy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    It is great to have you return Raf.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    Of course, it's almost a crime to reduce such a complex and fascinating subject to just a few paragraphs, but it's all backed up by solid historical evidence. Christianity is nothing but a crude collage of other ancient myths and religions.
    I agree that what we call Christianity also has connections to previous myths. And i add that Christianity as we know it has nothing to do with the Christ Jesus but is a great distraction from the true teachings of the Christ.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    As for the life of Jesus himself, very very little is known about him, historically speaking. As you know, none of the gospels was actually written by actual disciples. They've been written from 70 to 350 years after the alleged crucifixion, and extensively modified at will by the Roman Catholic Church in the following centuries. The Bible itself was intensively modified for about 1600 years.

    As a matter of fact, there's no direct eye-witness account of Jesus's life. This is considered very intriguing by Historians and Theologians, since other much less important historical characters were largely documented by scribes, priests, philosophers and historians of the time. So, if he was so important, why there's literally nothing written about him by the very people who allegedly lived in the same historical period? It's like, historically, he didn't even exist.

    That's why there's growing current of thought called Mythicism, which, in respect to this subject, studies the possibility of not only Christianity being a complete fabrication, but the character of Jesus himself being a total farce as well.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    If we are only referring to the Gospels here then there is truth in what you say otherwise this is not a fact. There exists first hand eye witness documentation with the Hindu Brahmins in India and the Buddhist in Tibet that Jesus/Issa existed.

    Nicolas Notovitch's account of being shown the documentation in 1894
    http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

    I recommend this book which i purchased in India.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Lived-.../dp/1852305509

    There is much much more information kicking around if one takes time to research. There are radio interviews of folks in our times having seen and been allowed access to the Documentation that exists in the Hemis Monastery near Ladakh, Himalayas. I can find the links if anyone asks.

    As far as Demons or negative entities are concerned. For me the horrific history and behaviour of humanity in the name of so called religions and gods is demonic enough. If we can deal with that one first we may make some progress. . Splinters in eyes and all that stuff sometimes makes sense

    Quote However, science is completely opposed to religion because, well...It works.

    Religion is strictly about beliefs, science not.
    The Hindu Brahmins would very much disagree with you here. For they say their way is a science.

    As we say in Scotland Raf. Go Canny Laddy.
    Last edited by Billy; 6th February 2015 at 20:54.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    If we are only referring to the Gospels here then there is truth in what you say otherwise this is not a fact. There exists first hand eye witness documentation with the Hindu Brahmins in India and the Buddhist in Tibet that Jesus/Issa existed.

    Nicolas Notovitch's account of being shown the documentation in 1894
    http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

    I recommend this book which i purchased in India.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Lived-.../dp/1852305509

    There is much much more information kicking around if one takes time to research. There are radio interviews of folks in our times having seen and been allowed access to the Documentation that exists in the Hemis Monastery near Ladakh, Himalayas. I can find the links if anyone asks.

    As far as Demons or negative entities are concerned. For me the horrific history and behaviour of humanity in the name of so called religions and gods is demonic enough. If we can deal with that one first we may make some progress. . Splinters in eyes and all that stuff sometimes makes sense

    As we say in Scotland Raf. Go Canny Laddy.
    Hello Billy,

    Well, in the words of Bart D. Erhman himself, which is one of the most if not the most credible and respected contemporary scholars in this field:

    "Today there is not a single recognized scholar on the planet who has any doubts about the matter. The entire story was invented by Notovitch, who earned a good deal of money and a substantial amount of notoriety for his hoax"

    So, Notovitch's story is far from being considered history. Some say he was a victim of a hoax. Some say he was a hoaxer himself.

    There's a lot of consistent information about this case on the web. This one seems to be very detailed and reliable. It's worth a read. It includes a transcript interview from 1896 with the Chief Lama of the Himis, who strongly denies Notovitch's story and the existence of any book or document about it.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 6th February 2015 at 21:17.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    Religion is one of the main reasons ET's hide themselves and do not interact with Earth humans ... they did once long ago and religion was brought back to their world and it caused so much War , a decision was made that any ship that landed on Earth with technical problems would be offered NO assistance from the extended community , hence the Tunguska event ... a ship from the peoples Union of Bardan with a crew of 4387 souls , was damaged and they fashioned a bomb out of their engine lifted it as high as they could and let it fall back to Earth and explode ... They knew help was not coming ... all over religion ... Earth humans always want to set a power over themselves , so as not to bare responsibility for their thoughts, actions , and feelings ...
    From what I have researched it appears that many ETs have implanted religion here on Earth as a means to control humanity. They can appear as angels, a burning bush, a pillar of smoke/cloud to a "chosen prophet" and leave them with stone/emerald tablets, golden plates, holy books, etc.. to feed to the masses. Billions of religious followers currently exist on this planet.

    Our own member, Truman Cash, has detailed his account of ETs manipulating himself and others to implant religion in society to control the people.
    Last edited by seeker/reader; 7th February 2015 at 14:38.
    "The sleeper must awaken," quote by Duke Leto Atreides from the movie, Dune.

    http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...ne-MRW-Gif.gif

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.


    Quote The action starts in modern America, specifically in a room at the Hyatt in St. Louis, where the angel who shepherds "Levi who is called Biff" has to put Christ's outrageous sidekick under de facto house arrest to get him to complete his task. Moore (Bloodsucking Fiends) gets style points for his wild imagination as Biff recalls his journey with Jesus dubbed Joshua here according to the Greek translation into and out of the clutches of Balthasar, then into a Buddhist monastery in China and finally off to India, where they dabble in the spiritual and erotic aspects of Hinduism.
    --Amazon review

    It's a fun read.....Just bought this one, haven't gotten to it yet...

    just s

    --the consequence of denile outweighs the risk of skepticism

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Silo (here)

    It's a fun read.....Just bought this one, haven't gotten to it yet...

    I've read this one.

    Although I don't sympathize with the author, I enjoyed reading this book.

    Bart D. Erhman books are much better, though, in my opinion. If you're interested in the historical Jesus theme, I highly recommend his books. Besides being a terrific scholar, he's also a great writer, which makes this kind of reading much easier.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 6th February 2015 at 21:59.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Although I don't sympathize with the author.
    What do you mean?
    Last edited by Silo; 6th February 2015 at 22:02. Reason: clarity
    just s

    --the consequence of denile outweighs the risk of skepticism

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Silo (here)
    Quote Although I don't sympathize with the author.
    What do you mean?
    Nothing special...I just think he's very arrogant as an individual.

    It's got nothing to do with the quality of his work, though. He's quite respected in his field and this book was well received by the academic community. It's a well researched book and it's certainly worth a read.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    another one of many Satanists speaks out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I11L71PD3Lw

    John Ramirez was ranked the third highest devil worshiper in New York. He received his orders directly from Satan himself. But what was strong enough to rescue John? Who had enough light to shine into his darkness?

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    I think human language is very limited. "Science" to me is flawed, misleading and manipulated by scientists. However, how things are, are how things are, we can try to explain and understand through what we call science. But what ever it is that holds everything in place, the field we operate in is what it is, with or without human science. I think there is supreme science that explains all things at all levels effortlessly if one can understand, but earth science, public earth science more importantly, is just a small piece of supreme science, and limiting.

    And to Tesla

    "the more i look at the natural world the more i am in awe of the organizing factors behind it."

    I think this is whats most important, no one can tell you what you see, just keep looking.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by magnum (here)
    another one of many Satanists speaks out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I11L71PD3Lw

    John Ramirez was ranked the third highest devil worshiper in New York. He received his orders directly from Satan himself. But what was strong enough to rescue John? Who had enough light to shine into his darkness?
    The combined prowesses of the human mind, body, and spirit are capable of remarkable feats of awareness, experience, and creation. I don't doubt that this individual is quite convinced that he was receiving his orders directly from Satan himself, nor do I doubt his conviction in having been 'saved' or whatever. The problem is, this is all subjective interpretation. One can conjure, elicit, or otherwise create - in their own mind and awareness (and thereby their experience) - all these things that you (and the guy) assert.

    Sorry, but there is no credibility to either your statements or the video. This isn't a testimony, this is a well-edited (with numerous irrelevant anecdotes and cut-ins) sales pitch.

    Edit: He has quite the (authoritarian) impression of his comprehension, abilities, and experience. I would go so far as to say that he spends a large portion of the video boasting,....
    Last edited by Shezbeth; 7th February 2015 at 11:41.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    Quote Posted by magnum (here)
    another one of many Satanists speaks out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I11L71PD3Lw

    John Ramirez was ranked the third highest devil worshiper in New York. He received his orders directly from Satan himself. But what was strong enough to rescue John? Who had enough light to shine into his darkness?
    The combined prowesses of the human mind, body, and spirit are capable of remarkable feats of awareness, experience, and creation. I don't doubt that this individual is quite convinced that he was receiving his orders directly from Satan himself, nor do I doubt his conviction in having been 'saved' or whatever. The problem is, this is all subjective interpretation. One can conjure, elicit, or otherwise create - in their own mind and awareness (and thereby their experience) - all these things that you (and the guy) assert.
    You're completely right.

    There's an evangelical church a few blocks from where I live, the bad kind, you know.

    They do exorcisms every Friday there. I've been there a couple of times, just for fun.

    The thing is utterly ridiculous, needless to say. People screaming, speaking in "tongues", convulsing....The whole thing, the complete package. Every single Friday there're at least two or three people to be "exorcised" there.

    I think to myself, you know, if being religious was supposed to protect you from "the devil", it clearly isn't working. lol

    Frankly, I've never seen an atheist possessed by "the devil", have you?

    Besides, think about it: If "the devil" could posses Obama or Putin and start WWIII right away, why he would be wasting his time possessing a bunch of uninteresting, ignorant and broken evangelical people instead? lol

    This is so fun...It's really a show. Better than most Hollywood movies.

    What's most interesting is that the Pastor seems to be well aware that it's a total scam, a psycho-neurological phenomena perverted into something else...But he likes the money, he loves it. What a crook.

    Anyway, moral of the story: People can convince themselves of whatever they want. It certainly will feel real for them, which obviously doesn't mean it will be real for everyone else. What's considered a possession for them is just an induced state of hypnotic trance, nothing more, nothing less.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 7th February 2015 at 10:31.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    What's most interesting is that the Pastor seems to be well aware that it's a total scam, a psycho-neurological phenomena perverted into something else...But he likes the money, he loves it. What a crook.

    Anyway, moral of the story: People can convince themselves of whatever they want. It certainly will feel real for them, which obviously doesn't mean it will be real for everyone else. What's considered a possession for them is just an induced state of hypnotic trance, nothing more, nothing less.
    I've had a similar experience. I sat in on a particular (distasteful IMO) Baptist service where a heavily-made up preacher proclaimed glory to the followers and unholy this, that, and the other thing for the non-believers (non-Baptists, not non-Christians mind you). The trouble was, halfway through the service he had invited a personal friend to co-'chair' the service; his friend was much slicker (better hair, better suit, neater make-up, better sales pitch) and I got to watch as the church's home pastor slinked to the back of the stage with an expression mixed with fear and insignificance.

    To aid with the visual, this particular church (I've been to all kinds of denominations and faiths - its definitely good for a laugh, and sometimes there's food ^_~) but this particular church had dimmed lighting (as though it was night-time) their own rock band, and two giant flat-screen T.V.s displaying a laser-light-show type of graphic display during the entire ceremony (ritual would be more accurate). I'll let you do the math on that,....

    Anyhow, like you describe there was whooping, random attendees jumping forth and pleading to be saved, others speaking in tongues (that particular church refers to this phenomenon as 'having/receiving the holy spirit'), and the occasional individual getting up out of their seat and running laps around the congregation, etc; it was anything but calm or rational.

    But let's take this one step further shall we? Money is an obvious motivator,... but allow me to suggest that fame and - more specifically - loosh (for lack of better word; I'm referring to the tangible energetic phenomenon of adoration for, submission to, and absolute conviction toward an individual and/or ideology) that is a greater motivator,... and that is an impetus that reaches FAR more than just religious types.

    With a quick review of the Alternative Media, Forums, Blogs, etc. (ad nauseum) one can readily discern a wealth of individuals who go to the N'th degree to 'capture' and maintain the belief systems and perceptions of the unwary and/or foolish. Avalon in particular has been subject to some of the tallest tales imaginable, and it defies credulity to observe the numbers that are taken in, invested, however one wants to look at it.

    If I were lacking in class I would name names, but let us just say that there are several very close at hand (both the takers and the taken).

    Mind, the 'experience of loosh' could as easily be a combination of neuro-chemicals brought about/induced by the experience of being perceived/received in a particular manner by a multitude. A politician may not consciously recognize the devotion and adoration in the faces of those who attend their speech, but the subconscious mind certainly does and it has a lovely concoction of brain-drugs to suit the mood,.... So whether its brain-drugs, or loosh, (or both/neither) there's a certain 'fix' that a person can get through any of the above examples; whether one is peddling or buying there's a 'high' to be had by all.

    And like you say, the ones who are peddling are usually quite aware of it (and often quite psychotic, but one shouldn't hold their breath waiting for them to admit it!).
    Last edited by Shezbeth; 7th February 2015 at 11:02.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    But let's take this one step further shall we? Money is an obvious motivator,... but allow me to suggest that fame and - more specifically - loosh (for lack of better word; I'm referring to the tangible energetic phenomenon of adoration for, submission to, and absolute conviction toward an individual and/or ideology) that is a greater motivator,... and that is an impetus that reaches FAR more than just religious types.
    I absolutely agree with this, my friend.

    Specially, when we realize that man have created god to his image, not the other way around, a god who demands prayer, submission, adoration and adulation reflects exactly the main motivational factors which led to the fabrication of religions and, subsequently, of the gods themselves.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 7th February 2015 at 11:05. Reason: typos and grammar, as usual.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    Hello Billy,

    Well, in the words of Bart D. Erhman himself, which is one of the most if not the most credible and respected contemporary scholars in this field:

    "Today there is not a single recognized scholar on the planet who has any doubts about the matter. The entire story was invented by Notovitch, who earned a good deal of money and a substantial amount of notoriety for his hoax"

    So, Notovitch's story is far from being considered history. Some say he was a victim of a hoax. Some say he was a hoaxer himself.

    There's a lot of consistent information about this case on the web. This one seems to be very detailed and reliable. It's worth a read. It includes a transcript interview from 1896 with the Chief Lama of the Himis, who strongly denies Notovitch's story and the existence of any book or document about it.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Hi Raf and thanks for your reply, I must say i am surprised you used Wiki to try and disprove that the documentation does exist. Funny enough the Vatican used the same line of attempting to debunk Notovitch after they tried to bribe Notovitch to remain silent and hand over his documentation. To which he refused and went ahead and published only to disappear never to be seen again.

    In the link you provided above it also mentions the sceptic Swami Abhedananda who travelled to Hemis to intentionally debunk the claim only to have the claim confirmed.
    Quote from the link you provided.

    Quote Corroboration in India

    Although Notovitch had been discredited in Europe, Swami Abhedananda, a contemporary and colleague of Swami Vivekananda, visited the Himis monastery in 1922 to confirm the reports of Notovich that he had heard the previous year in the USA. The lamas at the monastery confirmed to him that Notovich was indeed brought to the monastery with a broken leg and he was nursed there for a month and a half. They also told him that the manuscript on Jesus Christ was shown to Notovich and contents interpreted so that he could translate them into Russian.[15]

    The original manuscript was said to be in Pali in the monastery of Marbour near Lhasa. The manuscript preserved at Himis was in Tibetan. Swami Abhedananda himself was shown the manuscript, which had 14 chapters containing 223 couplets (slokas). The Swami got some portions of the manuscript translated with the help of a lama, about 40 verses appearing in the Swami's travelogue.[16]
    And again here. http://the-wanderling.com/hemis.html

    Quote In 1922 the noted Indian holy man, Swami Abhedananda, traveled to Hemis and requested he be allowed to see the original documents. The Swami writes in his book Journey into Kashmir and Tibet the following as to the result of that request:


    "The lama who was acting as our guide took a manuscript from the shelf and showed it to the Swami. He said that it was an exact translation of the original manuscript which was lying in the monastery of Marbour near Lhasa. The original manuscript is in Pali, while the manuscript preserved in Himis is in Tibetan. It consists of fourteen chapters and two hundred twenty-four couplets (slokas). The Swami got some portion of the manuscript translated with the help of the lama attending on him."

    The guide took "A manuscript" from the shelf and said that it was an exact translation of the original manuscript in the monastery of Marbour near Lhasa. "A manuscript" seems to indicate something less than two, being "A manuscript" rather than "the manuscripts," and most likely more closely resembling a book-like format than a scroll, and for sure, not being anything like scattered fragmentary notices.
    The lama also said the manuscript he showed Abhedananda was an "exact translation" not that the manuscript was an exact visual duplicate of the original (i.e., that it did not necessarily look or resemble the original in outside build, shape, appearance or format but was fully accurate in the contents, that is, that Jesus visited India).
    And here.
    Quote In 1939 a Swiss woman in her late thirties traveling in India with several female companions journeyed into Tibet, stopping at the Hemis lamasery for several days. During their stay the monastery librarian and two other monks approached the ladies carrying three objects wrapped in cloth. It has since been reported the objects were Buddhist books made of sheets of parchment sandwiched between two pieces of wood and wrapped in brocades — green and red and blue seeded with gold. The librarian reportedly unwrapped one of the books and told the ladies that the books say Jesus had been there (i.e., in Hemis).

    Swedish professor and theologian Per Beskow, in his book STRANGE TALES ABOUT JESUS: A Survey of Unfamiliar Gospels (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1985), although not speaking of the the Swiss woman or her comments specifically, pretty much backs up her account of what Tibetan books look like:


    "Tibetan books are neither scrolls nor bound in our way. They consist of oblong leaves, imitating palm leaves; they are kept loose between wooden plates, and the whole is kept wrapped in a piece of cloth."
    Find out about the existence of palm leaves in my thread here.
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-with-Destiny.

    More here.
    Quote In the late 1970s, one Janet Bock, in an interview with a disciple of Swami Abhedananda stated the following regarding the ancient documents:


    "(His master, Swami Abhedananda) found the scrolls and he translated all the writings, all the life incidents of the Christ. He narrated those incidents in his book 'Kashmiri O Tibetti.' Years afterwards he inquired but they said the scrolls were no longer there. I also requested to see the scrolls, but there is nothing. There are no scrolls. They have been removed, by whom we do not know."
    Quote For a much more recent, contemporary account, in 2005 or so, world traveler Wayne Yoder stayed at the Hemis monastery. He reports basically the same thing Bock did in late 1970:


    "Before coming to Ladakh, I had done some reading to give me some familiarity of the region and came across a book, Jesus Lived in India, written by a German scholar which states that Hemis monastery housed some very old manuscripts which gave evidence of Jesus spending time in the region studying with some of the masters. At one point, as a monk is showing me around the different temples, I mention this to him and he says that it is true but the manuscripts are no longer kept here. They have been moved to another location."


    Again, as in the other cases above, it was not that the manuscripts did not exist, only that they were no longer kept at the monastery. Yoder, like the others, was told they had been moved to another location.
    And now in another location in India. Puri. Where i have been. Even today, the Brahmins have no doubts whatsoever the Jesus stayed there. Different documentation same story. This would to refer to a previous temple structure to the Juggernaut Temple we have today.

    Quote Ravicz lived in Pacific Palisades practically on top of the Self-Realization Fellowship Lake-Shrine Temple. Some time after his 1975 visit to Hemis word of his knowledge regarding the manuscripts filtered down to Sri Daya Mata, the president of the Self-Realization Fellowship.

    In 1959, Sri Daya Mata had traveled to India to meet and talk with people of note related to the Fellowship as well as visit some of the hallowed and sacred places from which the Fellowship sprang. During her travels she stopped to see Sri Bharati Krishna Tirtha (1884-1960), the Shankaracharya of Puri, who had visited the Self-Realization Center in California the year before. As reported in the article titled "Remembering Paramahansa Yogananda," appearing in Self-Realization Magazine, (Winter, 1992, p.16) the following transpired:


    "In 1959 I discussed this (Jesus being in India during his so-called 'missing years' of the Bible) with one of India's great spiritual leaders, His Holiness Sri Bharati Krishna Tirtha, the Shankaracharya of Puri. I told him that Guruji (Paramahansa Yogananda) had often said to us that Christ spent some of his life in India, in association with her illumined sages."


    His Holiness replied:


    "That is true. I have studied ancient records in the Puri Jagannath Temple archives confirming these facts. He was known as 'Isha,' and during part of his time in India he stayed in the Jagannath Temple.
    When he returned to his part of the world, he expounded the teachings that are known today as Christianity."


    So, not only the Hemis Manuscripts attest to Jesus visiting India, there are it seems, according to Bharati Krishna Tirtha, ancient records in the Jagannath Temple archives in Puri --- clear across the sub-continent from the Buddhist temples of the Himalayas to nearly on the coast Hindu temples.

    In the Hemis Manuscripts it is stated that Issa spent six years in Jagannath (now Puri) and other holy cities of the Hindus, before going to live for a further six years in the Himalayas. In relation, Chapter V and VI translations are said to reveal the following:

    CHAPTER V
    5) He passed six years at Juggernaut (i.e., Puri), at Rajagriha, at Benares, and in the other holy cities. Everyone loved him, for Issa lived in peace with the Vaisyas and the Sudras, whom he instructed in the holy scriptures.

    CHAPTER VI
    2) But Issa, warned of his danger by the Sudras, left the neighborhood of Juggernaut by night, reached the mountain, and established himself in the country of Gautamides, the birthplace of the great Buddha Sakyamuni, in the midst of a people worshipping the one and sublime Brahma.

    4) Six years after, Issa, whom the Buddha had elected to spread his holy word, had become a perfect expositor of the sacred writings.

    5) Then he left Nepal and the Himalayan mountains, descended into the valley of Rajputana, and went towards the west, preaching to diverse peoples the supreme perfection of man.
    And a different story.

    Quote The summer of the year 1925, after having left Europe for India, found my mentor getting off a boat in Bombay on his way to the Hemis monastery. Just before leaving Bombay he went to see the caves at Elephanta, and while there met a holy man named Swami Ramdas, a holy man he would meet again, many times.

    Although much different in scope, like my mentor, Ramdas was on a spiritual pilgrimage throughout India, traveling the width and breadth of the country, top to bottom, side to side, a pilgrimage that started in 1922 and not ending until 1931. In the process of his travels, one of the many holy places Ramdas sought out and stayed was a small cave in Himalayas overlooking the upper reaches of the Ganges River called Arundhati's Cave, also called 'the Jesus Cave' because through legend it is said Jesus of Nazareth stayed there for a time in meditation during his so called 'missing years of the Bible.' In the book, In The Vision of God, by Ramdas, the following is found:
    An interview with Paul Davids, Maker of the Film Jesus in India.
    http://jesusofeastandwest.blogspot.c...davids-on.html

    Christ of the Kashmiris. By Anand Krishna.
    http://www.christofkashmiris.com/

    So in concluding Raf. There are many more who have seen the manuscripts other than Notovitch. He was just one westerner who published his findings, much to the Vatican's rage.

    I am also surprised that you choose to go down this road Raf. I always respected your scientific research.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    -------

    Hi, All: I have the Notovich book here, if it's of interest:

    http://projectavalon.net/The_Unknown...ovich_1890.pdf



    My own position on this (and then I'll gently withdraw from the excellent discussion here!) is that the message may be that sometimes it doesn't matter if a book is a strictly truthful account or not.

    And whether this IS accurate or not, I feel I cannot say; but I've personally been to see what's known and accepted by all the locals as Jesus' tomb in Srinagar... for them it's a case of "Yes, of course it's the Great Master. It's obvious. And yes, he was here, for sure."

    If a book teaches and inspires, that may be much more important than being historically 100% accurate. Many Victorian writers used to invent (or exaggerate) stories simply to be inspirational and thought-provoking. For instance, some of the Victorian Hollow Earth tales almost certainly fall into that category.

    The book is a marvelous read... I do recommend it. Then you can make up your own mind.




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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    Hi Raf and thanks for your reply, I must say i am surprised you used Wiki to try and disprove that the documentation does exist.
    Sincerely, If you guys keep trying to distort and twist everything I say I'm not staying here for very long.

    As the creator of this thread, all I'm trying to do is to keep its focus on the main subject, which is the context of the opening post.

    Of course, the historical Jesus subject is fascinating but it's such a controversial and demanding subject that I do not expect resolve it in a forum thread.

    The Issa hypothesis is not accepted by the Religious Historian community. Period. Does it mean it's false? Absolutely not. Does it mean the scholars are trying to sabotage this hypothesis? Absolutely not. Does it mean there's a big possibility of it being false. Yes, there is.

    The matter of fact is that, History, fraudulent documents and elaborate hoaxes walk hand in hand. This is an undeniable fact.

    I must remember that "the establishment is suppressing the truth" card might as well be applicable to this case or not. Although there's genuine track of people and theories being suppressed by the establishment, it's also the most common excuse used by charlatans to try to boost the credibility of their material.

    Anyway, no. I didn't resource to wiki as some sort of lazy research attitude. I did it because for me, despite being a fascinating subject, I do not intend to focus on the historical Jesus subject on this thread. Maybe on another one in the future.

    You're a moderator, Billy. Is it so inconceivable to you that someone may want to keep his own thread on the track instead of delving into discussion branches which would most certainly derail it?

    Please, lets all act as grown ups and try to honestly understand each other without deliberately twisting everything .

    If there's one thing I've noticed after a couple of years of absence from this forum is that people now are way more cynical, manipulative and impolite.

    The second post in this thread is about someone calling me a tyrant. Then someone said that I was spreading **** or something like that. Then someone else accuses me of being lazy.

    What's going on here? Did you folks lose all sense of dialogue? Did you actually forgot how to communicate? Do you have any idea about how dialectics is supposed to work?

    Do you want to get somewhere or are you actually here to argue for the sake of arguing?

    What am I doing here, actually? I came back to have interesting conversations with interesting people and now I'm already wasting my time responding people who seemingly are unable to keep a conversation in context.

    I could very well be investing this time in more productive things, like playing guitar or reading a book.

    I'm starting to regret to be back. Honestly.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 7th February 2015 at 13:59.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    You do not have to be upset Raf. I was responding to your claim below to which i disagree, personally I was quite enjoying the debate. Whatever.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    As a matter of fact, there's no direct eye-witness account of Jesus's life. This is considered very intriguing by Historians and Theologians, since other much less important historical characters were largely documented by scribes, priests, philosophers and historians of the time. So, if he was so important, why there's literally nothing written about him by the very people who allegedly lived in the same historical period? It's like, historically, he didn't even exist.

    That's why there's growing current of thought called Mythicism, which, in respect to this subject, studies the possibility of not only Christianity being a complete fabrication, but the character of Jesus himself being a total farce as well.


    Cheers,

    Raf.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    You do not have to be upset Raf. I was responding to your claim below to which i disagree, personally I was quite enjoying the debate. Whatever.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    As a matter of fact, there's no direct eye-witness account of Jesus's life. This is considered very intriguing by Historians and Theologians, since other much less important historical characters were largely documented by scribes, priests, philosophers and historians of the time. So, if he was so important, why there's literally nothing written about him by the very people who allegedly lived in the same historical period? It's like, historically, he didn't even exist.

    That's why there's growing current of thought called Mythicism, which, in respect to this subject, studies the possibility of not only Christianity being a complete fabrication, but the character of Jesus himself being a total farce as well.


    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Well Billy, as far as History goes, I'm completely correct in my statement.

    There isn't a single serious scholar in this field who would agree with the Issa hypothesis...And as far as History goes, there really isn't any document accepted as a legitimate eye-witness report of Jesus's life.

    Have you accepted it just because you read it in a book?

    If so, I'd rather trust the Historians community, since they use much better criteria and investigative methodologies than that.

    Obviously, since we all don't have time to really dive deeply into so many subjects which fascinate us, we have to resort to trust based on criteria such as reputation, credibility, etc...

    Now, if you want to assume that the hypothesis is being suppressed for some reason, it's ok, but it would be nothing more than that; an assumption.

    In fact, I don't see any logical reason to suppress such hypothesis, since it would actually give credence to the historical Jesus research field, specially now that it's gradually but steadily losing its ground to the mythicists.

    If the church is interested in suppressing someone, it might as well be suppressing the mythicists, since they are a much bigger threat to their status quo.

    I'm not aware of any mythicist being suppressed. I'm also not aware of any scholar who addresses Jesus as a completely ordinary man (and they are by far the majority), which would also undermine the supremacy of the church, being suppressed.

    So, unless I'm missing something, I don't any reason to suppress the Issa hypothesis. In fact, I believe it would even be impossible to suppress it if it is indeed genuine, since it's such a large field with so many competent professionals working for the most ideologically diverse institutions.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 7th February 2015 at 14:41. Reason: typos, grammar, clarity

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    Wink Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    If there's one thing I've noticed after a couple of years of absence from this forum is that people now are way more cynical, manipulative and impolite.


    To that Brother !

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