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Thread: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

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    Poland Avalon Member Apteka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Jesus => St John => St Polycarp => St Irenaeus

    I suggest starting with St Irenaeus' magnum opus, Against the Heresies.

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    Poland Avalon Member Apteka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Artistic depictions of demons is only symbolic and should not be taken as a reference to what these beings actually are. Since they are incorporeal beings, they have no "appearance" per se. The sacred artists saught to teach their disordered and corrupt nature by depicting them as grotesque mixtures of species.

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1050.htm#article1

    The Medievals understood this very well.

    Pax et bonum

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Very rational and plausible OP since, in the end it could indeed be a horrific joke and horrendous lie.

    So, let's assume an equally rational and plausible origin for satanism and religion:

    "The Men Who Stared at Goats"

    Hopefully, by the end of this post, the use of the above reference will be self-explanatory.

    Hypnosis/hypnotism could be the clue and key to all of it!

    For example, it's just standard political operating procedure to use dis-incarnated proxies to do one's biding:

    Quote Body in pawn: Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over there and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.

    [...]

    Standard Political Operating Procedure... with post-hypnotic commands of misbehaving with the new walk-in body: "Go take control of the body of that president's wife and get her to like having s&x with little boys and girls and we'll get your husband from here to do the same with your new husband over there so we can blackmail them all." The internecine battles of secret societies....

    [...]

    You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as an astral body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking".

    This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations.

    So, once upon a time; long, long ago; someone, somehow, discovered some ability to send some of his/her goats (or mares -- night-mares) pull the toes of some rivals or enemies to get back at them... and became the shaman/sorcerer/medicine wo/man of his/her people. If, on top of that, the same energy goat was continually used from generation to generation to go and bother the rival family, clan or tribe... guess what happen to that "goat"?

    My bet is that it suffered the same fate that's known as "tulpa" by the Tibetans.

    Of course, the recipients of these toe-tugging visitations would surely have conjured up some protections... and here we are, with zillions of entities and counter-entities...

    Accordingly, yes, it's a big joke, a very practical one, however!

    One which has been very seriously studied by the US military as explained in that
    book "The Men Who Stared at Goats".

    With that, what's left available are the effects of such -- so-called subjective -- visitations as manifested and/or perceived in the physical realm. "So-called" because, until a radio receiver can step down -- to audible sound -- the electromagnetic waves from a transmitter, there is no way to prove the existence of radio waves, yet they are there, all around and creating more and more havoc with the biology of living organisms.

    Cheers!

    PS: Welcome back,
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Quote Posted by Rozzy (here)
    Your joking right??
    Look at the title of the thread and then look at your first post, you offended multitudes of people and it looks intentional, what would you expect??
    Since when a well substantiated critique can be considered an offense?

    Is religion something special which should somehow be placed above critique?

    You probably aren't aware of that but what I've said on the OP is pretty much a summary of what every single credible Historian and Theologian agree about Christianity: It's nothing more than a collage of "pagan" religions.

    I didn't invent any of these concepts. Have you ever thought about questioning the Bible? If you want to keep being a Christian, you'd better don't even start, because there's no coming back. Historically speaking, if you remove all inconsistencies from it, you'll be left with no more than a handful of pages.

    If you feel offended by the truth, then are you a real truth seeker?
    One thing is clear, you do not know me period, I have debated and fought some pretty well known Churchmen, theologians and scholars on the Bible, come against the narrative where it was many against one, me being the one. I know religion all to well from the inside where a laymen will never see. I am not offended so easily, but to those who are members of churches and generational satanist you call them down and then expect no blow back. In the previous posts no one has even given you much in the way of what I might expect.
    You call satanism a joke, you are pretty uninformed if you truly believe that, it is no joke, of course you do not know this or you would not be so loose with the lips on this.
    You call christianity a farce and all a lie and lot more, tell that to people who really are christian and know whom they believe in and would die before recanting their faith.
    Tell it to the people whom have had their loved ones raised from the dead, tell it to the ones who have been healed from a chronic terminal disease that the doctors gave up on, tell it to the ones who have returned from NDE and attempted suicide who know what they know. Tell it to those who have been in other dimensions and literally been there, I have been there and the other side is real, there are beings there you know nothing about because with your ego you would not last a minute there. My ego got me thrown out hard one time, I learned just how real it is. Not all Christians nor satanists either for that matter are anything like you know of. The people who do good works unknown to any one, those who sacrifice their own time, health and money and go about their life not looking to debate anyone on it. You want to find frauds, go ahead the world is full of them, in the end we all get to find out if God is real or not, just give it time.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    For some, and here I'm talking about v.v. few, doing good works with part of the express intention (other than the obvious which is to do good works, of course) that no one knows about it except for maybe the beneficiary is a magnificent obsession. People from all walks of life belong to that v.v. small group... even atheists.

    PS -- don't mind me if the above statement seems off-topic as I'm soon to turn 60 and will just use the beginning onset of dementia as an excuse for that even though that's not the case.

    Truth be told, I think those who do good works with no expectations for any kind of reward for doing that.... who just do it because it's the right thing to do and who do not bother to tell others about their good deeds either... are the most noble of them all.
    Last edited by Roisin; 8th February 2015 at 01:55.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    There are a lot of things I do not believe but I do not call other peoples beliefs a joke, a farce, lies, etc, etc.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Some people live by their inner voices with great clearness.
    And they live by what they hear.
    Such people become crazy... or they become legends. Those who have have the courage and common sense to march by their own drummer come out ahead more often than not... even if some call them crazy.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Concerning Satanism and Christianity,

    One belief system stands on it's own; the other is dependent upon the previous...

    The fact is, there is real occult knowledge that has been preserved in the form of allegorical tales, hidden symbolism, metaphor, cyphers, numerology and geometry.

    These profound truths have thus been hidden from the profane(wold of horrors and unwashed masses) to prevent abuse and misuse.

    All kinds of horrors and miss-truths have been spawned by the ignorant trying to decode the hidden meanings.

    Yes, satanic ideology revolves around being ego centric; what is misunderstood is the satanic concept of "ego". Satanists view human kind as an animal that is self-aware/ego and is distinguishes from other animals by this quality. The process of elevating one's ego is "to know thyself"

    The composite figures(half man half goat) of the goat of mendes/Baphomet, represents the man who has transcended his animal aspect...

    Another composite figure often associated with satanists is the Egyptian figure of Set. Set represents man as being separate from nature because, he is a self aware/ego animal in a world of animals that are bound by natural law where he is not. Set represents mans creative ability by illustration of a man with the head of a non-natural animal unlike the hawk headed Horus or ibis headed Thoth.

    Most people will read what i've just wrote and will not be able to comprehend the meaning for a variety of reasons...the over arching reason can best be elucidated by the "Matrix" metaphor of: one can not be told of the matrix, one must experience it for them-self.
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.



    Here's what's on wiki...
    "Satanism is a broad term referring to a group of social movements comprising diverse ideological and philosophical beliefs."
    Last edited by Roisin; 8th February 2015 at 06:25.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    Well, if that's what "satanism" is, then Jesus must have been a satanist too, (that is, before Christianity was corrupted) with a diff. set of symbols, of course.
    Indeed....
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    United States Avalon Member ZooLife's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    Truth be told, I think those who do good works with no expectations for any kind of reward for doing that.... who just do it because it's the right thing to do and who do not bother to tell others about their good deeds either... are the most noble of them all.
    Noble to whom? To the self of course. The expectation is to the self. It pleases the self.

    Works is works is works.

    It is a mental exercise/ programing to rate works in a hierarchy.

    Works does not ultimately elevate a person above another in the grand scheme of it all.
    I still have eyes to see what the world would have me see but that doesn't mean I believe. - Sara

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Did I include "expectation to the self" as one of those wrong reasons for doing what it right wrt "good works"? Whoops! I guess I should have said that one too.

    Good Works is Good Works and those who do them with no expectations for reward and especially for those who do not boast about doing them who even keep such good deeds secret are the most noble of them all.
    Last edited by Roisin; 8th February 2015 at 04:01.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    The original Zeitgeist doco explains Christianity, religion and "ascended masters", such as Jesus Christ, quite well IMO. The commonalities, doctrines & dualities between various religious beliefs and ascended masters defies coincidence.

    So many of these people who claim to have "talked to God" (or other entities, incl Satan), could have technically conjured it in their imaginations.

    (Start at the 16:00 mark).



    The whole Morman religion is based on a guy slipping over in a stream and banging his head on a rock, and then heard voices and had visions! (with chunks from the Bible - which was written by MEN - thrown in for good measure). Good grief, every single one of us could start a religion on that basis.

    Thousands of years ago, perhaps humankind was simply too dumb to figure it out and some religious belief system was needed. These days, I'm not too sure considering the strife that differences in religious belief have and continue to cause us. Strip away all the dogma and clap-trap, and most religions are very similar in their "guiding principles" (the Ten Commandments for example), which for all intensive purposes, can fit on a single page, not a whole "book".
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 8th February 2015 at 06:24.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Not pointing fingers or dismissing anyone's experiences,... but be honest, what sounds better (to the ear, to the ego, to the vested interests, etc.); "hearing the voice of God" (Jesus, angels, etc.) or "psychosomatic auditory hallucination"?

    I'm not at all discounting extra-ordinary, extra-sensory, extra-dimensional, etc. phenomenon.

    Having said that, how many people who claim such knowledge and information - myself included - are unwilling to honestly and legitimately assess the possibility that they're bats hit crazy?

    Quote Posted by 13th Warrior (here)
    Concerning Satanism and Christianity,
    It's just above, so I'll spare the forum a reiteration of what you just said, but I applaud you for attempting to effectively (read: scholastically, analytically, and as unbiasedly as possible) disseminate some of the core concepts of metaphysics.

    Allow me to go one step further by stating unequivocally that Satanism (in most forms) is a tradition centered around Metaphysics, NOT the other way around.

    In a curious parallel, it is about the refinement and emergence of the individual - including the ego - to a state that (like 13th pointed out) the individual transcends their animalistic origins. For most (dogmatics) this seems foolish; the human is not an animal!. For others, that the human is an animal is simply and observably axiomatic.

    The parallel that I refer to could be considered as comparable to the Buddhist tradition of seeking the dissolution of the ego, the merging with the divine of numerous other traditions, etc. The bottom line is, if one finds themselves knee-jerk reacting to the terminology they're probably behind on a few of their studies.

    Are their groups that identify themselves as Satanic (et al) which practice in a manner that is injurious to those who are not engaged in the metaphysical process of emergence? In a manner of speaking, yes and no. On the one hand, the abject disdain that many such organizations operate toward non-practitioners (non-emergents) is tangible, but one could as easily say that such groups are doing it to non-emergents as they could say that non-emergents operate in a non-conducive manner which allows them to (for lack of better phrase) fall victim to the practices of such groups.

    To summarize, and to bring the discussion more back to its OP concepts:

    Satanists are real, but they are not the boogeymen they have been reported as; I suggest that those who are actively demonizing such groups are selling something (merchandise, ideas, themselves,....). Satanists do engage in behaviors and practices which can and do result in adversity for individuals who are essentially not working on themselves, but the onus for that is equally if not moreso on the individuals as it is the Satanic groups.

    If anything, the real boogeyman (boogeyperson?) is the individual who has refused to or ceased to emerge and develop, to take responsibility for themselves (real responsibility, not just a few bullet-point items and calling it a day). I have heard many theologians refer to that person as A Satan (indicating that Satan is a title and not a personage ^_~) and I'll tell you RIGHT now that Satanists do NOT worship complacency or irresponsibility.

    I would also suggest that Raf's tone is directed toward that type of Christian; the ones who feel exonerated for anything and everything because of a story of a guy on a cross and woe betide anything not otherwise associated with that guy!

    For reference:

    Emergent - noun - Individual actively engaged (whether conscious or not) in the process of developing themselves in a variety of capacities and categories, whether by secular or metaphysical means. Related form: Non-emergent. (this reference is in addition to the existing definitions for the word which do not include a noun-form, except for aquatic plants)

    P.S. Allow me to further suggest that the truly potent metaphysicians do not operate with or as part of a group.
    Last edited by Shezbeth; 8th February 2015 at 07:17.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    Seems to me that science is the religion that claims ownership of that which the collective consciousness likes to believe we truly understand
    I don't see it that way.

    Listen, your computer is working, right? You car works, right? How about your refrigerator, does it work? Your lightbulbs? Your cellphone? When you have headache and take an aspirin it works, right?

    That's it, man. I'm not up to discuss the merit of how much real reality really is.

    However, science is completely opposed to religion because, well...It works.

    Religion is strictly about beliefs, science not.

    Things created through science, like those I've cited in the second sentence of this post, they keep working independently if you believe them or not.

    Religion, though, is just the opposite. Mohamed exists as a god just for the Muslims...Christ is only real for Christians....But an ipod exists for everyone, independently if you believe in ipods or not.

    There might be some people out there who worship science as it's some kind of god. These people, in fact, are anti-science.

    Science is about questioning everything, specially science itself.
    After couple years of retirement, I think you have been changed a lot.

    You are absolutely wrong on your claim.

    Brazilians can do any sport except football. 6-0 German's defeat is a proof of it.

    Above sentence is a hypothesis which tried to be supported with a proof.

    " Mohamed exists as a god just for the Muslims."

    You have no idea on Islam and, or about God. Muhamedi Alejhi Selam was a envoy from god, he was only a human, not a god.
    Last edited by Tangri; 8th February 2015 at 09:11.
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Robin Galdek (here)
    Hey Raf,

    After a little reluctance, I thought that I'd jump in and offer my thoughts, perceptions, and opinions. You bring up a lot of great points and this is an important topic.

    Firstly, Anarchism simply means etymologically "no rulers or masters," but does not mean "no rules." It means understanding that one is a sovereign being who owns oneself and therefore can decide how one's body and mind functions without dictates from any other being. Depending on one's moral code, a self-proclaimed Anarchist could harm others and disobey any form of rules, or they can adopt the non-aggression principle and abide by rules that protect the sovereign state of all beings. Anarchism and civil disobedience are two completely different things, and one is a potential product of the other.

    Secondly, Satanists also vary, depending on their flavor of Satanism. Satanism as a whole is based entirely off of the worship of one's ego above everything else, and doing whatever it takes to be on top. Satanism always leads to hierarchy, because it is based off of a survival-of-the-fittest mentality. Therefore, most Satanists are Statists whether they believe it or not, and not Anarchists.

    Mark Passio, an ex-Satanist, summarizes the ideology of Satanism better than anybody I've ever met. I've known about Satanic ideology before meeting him, but his gift of oratory can express it better than I ever could, so I choose to follow the work he does out of a respect for his gift. I would recommend to you to check out his work when you get a chance, especially his Natural Law seminar. If people of all religions and ideologies knew about Natural Law, we wouldn't be in the mess that we are in.

    I can't speak for all Satanists, but I think that my understanding is very accurate based off of my experiences and interactions with them. Concerning Christians, there are some who are Bible-loving, Jesus-worshiping, miracle-believing, subservient, devil-fearing, ignorant nutcases, but there are also others who call themselves Christians because they simply appreciate the teachings of Jesus without all the dogma. It is the same with Satanism, but there are far less of them who believe in an actual devil character. Most of them simply take Satanism as an ideology that is based upon worshiping the ego above all else and exerting one's will onto others for their own personal gain. The word Satan stems from its Hebrew etymology which means "adversary, or opponent."

    Many Satanists take up the role of "adversary" with dignity, truly believing that they are serving the best interests of the universe, because they help to push and challenge people to higher morals. This, of course, comes with an air of superiority. But nonetheless, most Satanists do not believe in a devil character. Most Satanists are even aware of the laws of the universe and how the human psyche works, but they proclaim their own values above it all. Compared to most Christians, Satanists as a whole are extremely cunning, intelligent, courageous, and full of self-respect. But this does not mean that I agree with their ideals, because their will to harm others is deplorable.

    Anyway, I don't wish to get too deep into that realm. But I do want to share my background a bit. I've been an atheist for over a decade now. As soon as I was confirmed in my Catholic Church, I declared myself an atheist with passion and eagerness as I shed my layers of indoctrination. To me, the scientific method is the best way to gain an accurate understanding of the universe, and coupled with intuition and empathy, we could also better understand ourselves. Though I still consider myself an atheist, I acknowledge that atheism simply means "without a god." One could still be spiritual and believe in ghosts, demons, jinn, elementals, and "angels" without believing in a god.

    As an atheist, I simply reject the notion that there is a superior force above everything else. I think that we are all emanations of a Source that splintered itself and condensed denser and denser into deeper realms. I don't care what people even call Source, whether they call it "God" or the "Big Bang." My spiritualism is a balance between science and religion, and is reminiscent of Theosophy or Anthroposophy, though I dislike labels. But as an atheist, or one who doesn't believe in a god, I think that that whatever the Creator is, it placed certain laws in the universe that guide a soul (a splinter of the Source) up through the levels of Densities as it achieves a high enough vibration to merge with the oneness of the Source of the universe. It's as if we are all splinters of the Source being dragged back into oneness at our own pace based upon our free will to decide how fast or in what way we progress. I can still take up these notions while still labeling myself an atheist.

    That being said, I also reject any notion of "believing" anything. Those assumptions I made about the universe and our place in it are based off of research and intuition guided by experience. These are perceptions, and for all I know they me be completely wrong! But what separates me (and many other people) from others who have their thoughts and opinions about how the universe works is that I am not afraid to admit that I am wrong. Everybody is entitled to their perceptions of reality, but some are more aligned with the Truth than others, and it is our duty as sentient beings to change our patterns of thinking if we sway far off the mark. This is why I appreciate the Dalai Lama when he says:

    “If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.”

    Unfortunately, most people of both religious and scientific belief systems refuse to sway from their current thought patterns as new information emerges. As far as Christianity goes, yes, I believe most Christians are so deluded beyond repair. I care not what somebody chooses to believe, a long as their belief system does not harm another sentient being and they do not indoctrinate others with their beliefs. It doesn't matter whether or not Jesus was a historical figure in the grand scheme of things, because it is his message that matters. I do see it as a problem that most Christians truly believe that they can be spiritually saved by the acts of another being. I don't care what religion somebody is or if they base their lives entirely around science, but it is folly for any human being to believe that one's consciousness will ever advance by the sole acts of others.

    As far as the existence of demons go, I'd encourage you to reconsider this. Again, atheism does not mean rejecting any notion of inter-dimensional beings. Research in quantum physics is showing more and more the existence of dimensions, parallel universes, and multiple realities. Since, scientifically, the entire universe is composed entirely of vibrations that resonate at different levels of frequency, the existence of entities that we cannot see is very convincing. Our eyes can only see a very small bandwidth of light and are tuned into this reality. I would argue that this is so at our current density our souls can learn certain lessons before gaining a higher vibration as we progress to a higher density.

    But putting that aside, we are only tuned to see what we see, but that does not mean there are different layers of universal dimensions. Just like with a radio, there are different stations that have different frequencies. In order for the radio to function properly, it must be tuned to only one station. When you raise the station to a higher frequency, you can hear another station. In between the stations there is static. How is this any different to the human body connected to this current dimension? Our eyes are tuned to a certain frequency so we can properly function in this reality. Spiritualists may say this function is for our souls to learn lessons, and non-spiritualists may say that it is pure evolution.

    Either way, the static between radio stations can also be applied to our reality. Why cannot demons or jinn be the "static" between two layers of universal densities? In Eastern traditions, especially Islam, they are adamant that there are jinn who are inter-dimensional beings that are caught between two realities. Jinn are the Eastern equivalent to Western Demons. Why cannot ghosts, demons, and jinn all be a reference to beings that are caught between two layers of universal densities? Theoretically, it is perfectly aligned with the realm of quantum physics.

    Anyway, my tolerance for people of any religion is very low, and that includes the dogmatic belief in authority and money. Though we all have perceptions, there is one universal Truth. Personally, I choose to follow the Truth wherever it goes, and I continue to adjust my path every single day to come to as accurate of an understanding of our reality as I possibly can. This path has nothing to do with Darwinism, as Christians are falsely taught. In addition to being empathetic, I choose to be a moral person and not harm sentient beings because I understand that those actions will come back around and I will accumulate Karma in one way or the other. Isn't the Law of Karma written somewhere in the laws of physics? Oh yes, it's called Newton's Third Law.
    Robin this post was mind blowing for me. You managed to articulate almost exactly what I perceive to be true concerning your take on religion, spirituality, other realms ie spirits etc and the importance that science has played/plays in turning the metaphysical into something that can be explained/understood.

    I'm going to cut paste this post and print it out as it eloquently articulates almost exactly what I try and spit out when people ask me about my beliefs.

    I'd love to hit you up about some books/ doco's you recommend, but I'll do that privately as I think poor Raf's thread has gone down too many wayward twists and turns as it is.

    Hang around Raf, what's offensive to some is refreshing and appreciated by others.

    If people can't see Raf as anymore than a sincere, warm and generous soul of substantial intellect then your looking through a different lens that what I am.

    Cheers,

    Matt

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    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    I don't know if Satan or God exists , but there is an awfull amount death and
    destruction in their name from most of the events that have unfolded over known
    history up to the present. I tend to think the demonic entities are real and are
    either ETS or inter dimensional and are part of our psychie . God I interpret in a
    different way we are all eternal beings experiencing this reality and we are all
    gods. You could look at everything from war to peace and every experience as
    constrast while we are in the physical as it is only in this state we create. As in
    our natural non-physical eternal selfe we manifest whatever we require instantly.
    Which then goes back to why we fell. Living in bliss is boring over eons , so we
    created this theme park for the full range of corporeal experiances warts and all.

    If I look at it from that point of view all this is unimportant and if the elites know
    this explains the lack of empathy for human life as they know its an illusion and
    no one is really harmed its just like a movie.

    If this is not correct then the human race is evil and backward and needs awakening
    spiritually or just as a species, this is the question asked by every generation..


    There are horrific acts happening all the time...


    Big Questions for the State to answer on what has happened to these children
    new Sunday 8th February 2015 at 09:16 By David Icke
    http://breakingdownthnews.blogspot.c...nic-child.html

    Children Were Hunted Down and Killed Trying to Escape ‘Rape Dungeon’ at
    Notorious Florida Boys School
    Sunday 8th February 2015 at 10:38 By David Icke
    http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

    and I should say fun good experiances happen all the time as well ......'CONTRAST'...

    like I'm off in a little while with Lance ( Ecnal 61) for our Avalon S/W
    meet up as Becky is moving out of the area, only five of us can make
    it but hopefully we will have an interesting fun chat over coffee.....
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 8th February 2015 at 16:20.

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  28. Link to Post #98
    Brazil Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Hey folks,

    I've asked a billion times for people to take things in context but I guess it's useless.

    I've already said that I was (obviously) referring to biblical literalist Satanism and not all of its countless branches, but people still insist on interpreting things as they please.

    I don't intend to be arrogant (but I bet someone will call me that right away), but when educated people like us are discussing an issue, it's absolutely essential that there's a mutual effort to understand each other and, since educated people know that it's not productive to be ambiguous during a debate, they assume that, whatever the other part is saying is reasonably literal and objective, not full of subjective, underlying meaning.

    It's impossible to go somewhere fruitful during a discussion if I say "that bus is white" and the other part picks one of the countless underlying colors present in white and say that what I was actually saying is that "the bus is purple".

    Anyway, there are quite a few intelligent responses in this post, which unfortunately get lost among piles of meaningless babble. I apologize to you and I'll try to answer them one by one in private

    As for beliefs, yes, I understand that people get angry when they have their beliefs confronted by someone else, but what can I do? I have the same right to confront beliefs as people have rights to have beliefs. Besides, as you're aware of, beliefs are not harmless things that should be respected no matter what.

    Beliefs, mostly those involved in religion, are responsible for the biggest atrocities in human history. How do you think Christianity has become the biggest religion on the planet, by kissing, dancing and singing beautiful songs? No. It was by torture, murder, genocide, rape, converting people through fear and pain, not love...And you North-Americans should actually beware: There's a huge and growing current of Christians who will do whatever is within their reach to transform the US into a totalitarian Christian Theocracy. You should not underestimate these folks.

    That's it. Please feel free to contact me in private, any time. Beliefs for beliefs, I don't believe this present discussion model to be healthy.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 8th February 2015 at 13:34.

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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Welcome back Raf.......after being gone so long you come back and start a thread containing the subject matter that has caused more wars and death than just about any other thing in human history and expect your OP to taste like candy and go over smoothly with everyone???? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry brother, could not resist that remark!

    Regardless, just because this thread does relate to so many failures for us as a "human family" it is worthy of discussion because if solutions are not found soon and corrections are not made soon, we are basically doomed to continue to slaughter each other off until none of us are left. Most of the conflicts going on across the planet right now are being waged due to one god is better than the other god on one hand and on the other hand money is better than all gods.....

    IMO faith itself has been distorted........most people do not have a concept that having faith in each other as one family, each of us just as important than the other, is more important that slaughtering each other over their faith in their gods that often times teach just the opposite of how they are behaving...........
    SilentFeathers

    "The journey is now, it begins with today. There are many paths, choose wisely."

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    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Satanism (and Christianity) is a lie.

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    Not pointing fingers or dismissing anyone's experiences,... but be honest, what sounds better (to the ear, to the ego, to the vested interests, etc.); "hearing the voice of God" (Jesus, angels, etc.) or "psychosomatic auditory hallucination"?

    I'm not at all discounting extra-ordinary, extra-sensory, extra-dimensional, etc. phenomenon.

    Having said that, how many people who claim such knowledge and information - myself included - are unwilling to honestly and legitimately assess the possibility that they're bats hit crazy?

    Quote Posted by 13th Warrior (here)
    Concerning Satanism and Christianity,
    It's just above, so I'll spare the forum a reiteration of what you just said, but I applaud you for attempting to effectively (read: scholastically, analytically, and as unbiasedly as possible) disseminate some of the core concepts of metaphysics.

    Allow me to go one step further by stating unequivocally that Satanism (in most forms) is a tradition centered around Metaphysics, NOT the other way around.

    In a curious parallel, it is about the refinement and emergence of the individual - including the ego - to a state that (like 13th pointed out) the individual transcends their animalistic origins. For most (dogmatics) this seems foolish; the human is not an animal!. For others, that the human is an animal is simply and observably axiomatic.

    The parallel that I refer to could be considered as comparable to the Buddhist tradition of seeking the dissolution of the ego, the merging with the divine of numerous other traditions, etc. The bottom line is, if one finds themselves knee-jerk reacting to the terminology they're probably behind on a few of their studies.

    Are their groups that identify themselves as Satanic (et al) which practice in a manner that is injurious to those who are not engaged in the metaphysical process of emergence? In a manner of speaking, yes and no. On the one hand, the abject disdain that many such organizations operate toward non-practitioners (non-emergents) is tangible, but one could as easily say that such groups are doing it to non-emergents as they could say that non-emergents operate in a non-conducive manner which allows them to (for lack of better phrase) fall victim to the practices of such groups.

    To summarize, and to bring the discussion more back to its OP concepts:

    Satanists are real, but they are not the boogeymen they have been reported as; I suggest that those who are actively demonizing such groups are selling something (merchandise, ideas, themselves,....). Satanists do engage in behaviors and practices which can and do result in adversity for individuals who are essentially not working on themselves, but the onus for that is equally if not moreso on the individuals as it is the Satanic groups.

    If anything, the real boogeyman (boogeyperson?) is the individual who has refused to or ceased to emerge and develop, to take responsibility for themselves (real responsibility, not just a few bullet-point items and calling it a day). I have heard many theologians refer to that person as A Satan (indicating that Satan is a title and not a personage ^_~) and I'll tell you RIGHT now that Satanists do NOT worship complacency or irresponsibility.

    I would also suggest that Raf's tone is directed toward that type of Christian; the ones who feel exonerated for anything and everything because of a story of a guy on a cross and woe betide anything not otherwise associated with that guy!

    For reference:

    Emergent - noun - Individual actively engaged (whether conscious or not) in the process of developing themselves in a variety of capacities and categories, whether by secular or metaphysical means. Related form: Non-emergent. (this reference is in addition to the existing definitions for the word which do not include a noun-form, except for aquatic plants)

    P.S. Allow me to further suggest that the truly potent metaphysicians do not operate with or as part of a group.
    Excellent post,, Bravo... When I first decided to face what was happening to me,,, ( manymany obes and powerful energetic events) I questioned everything.. The first being my sanity.. I saw psychologists, and sleep medicine doctors and was given a clean bill of physical and mental health. I went to my church leaders too.. Boy that was a revelation! !! The search for truth has broken my heart..

    Have you ever experienced a messiah complex? I know you've probably heard of it, but have you ever experienced it?

    Therein lies my problem with religion... I have no idea where each perspective religious base gets its culture and history, or even if any of it is true.. I can see that Christianity is Based in the proppoing up and putting what is perfectly natural human potentials, on a devine,, godly, unattainable platform to which you can only worship...

    If you are to embrace any latent potential, then you are a heretic????? I suffered from my faith for tooooooooo long.. I began to hate myself, based on advise from church elders.. Nobody could help me. Not wrapped in this style of BS... Hundreds of people holding out there hands and singing hymns, yet not a single one of them would help me, not a one...

    I was terrified about what was happening,,,, According to Christianity, , I was a demonic posessed monster... And I began to accept that.

    I have learned much about myself and Christianity since then.. lol... The abilities that Jesus showed, I believe,, are latent untapped potentials that lay dormant in each of us.. Jesus was trying to tell folks, but the language simply did not exist...

    I have tried describing living multidimensional universe to physicists.. Easy enough, we have different words now.. Imagine trying to explain it using only ancient Hebrew terms.. Again, I'd be grumpy too.. lol...

    As folks wake into their latent abilities,, we are struck with messia sickness... Based solely on the mistake of putting jesus on a pedistal and worshipping him...

    Calling it all lies, does not move us forward either... (did ya read that in a book?) Lol.....

    All religions have been redesigned to keep us worshipping instead of searching within ourselves.. They turned Jesus into a god,, and we suffer because of it....


    I do not believe that I am like Jesus,, but I am willing to accept that he may have been like me...

    And NOBODY is going to tell me that Mohumad was not having obes... lol.. same with Buddas, etc.... Take them down from the devine pedistal and stop with the worship.. Embrace and accept that you/we are nothing less than all those things yourself...

    When I wrote my book in2010,, I called it 'The book of Jacob'.. It was a shot at Christianity.. I think we should ALL right our owngospels... A book about your own awakening, and the free and sovereign people that we are becoming....

    My guess is that because I do not 100 percent agree with the OP, that I will be accused of blatent and toxic hostility.. .

    So be it, I am that I am...
    Jake
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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