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    Default Re: O2

    Thank you DarMar, you are one of the billions of reasons myself and all the others working on this have not given up

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    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
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    Default Re: O2

    Hey Earthlink,

    You must have missed me asking for your assistance:

    Quote What's the chapter from the EOLSS section you're referencing please.

    There are lots to choose from so be a bit more precise there bloke.

    ...

    Actually, just provide the fully referenced quote so everyone can see it in context.

    That would be best for all concerned.

    Remember you can easily quote a page or two without violating copyright.
    Cheers
    Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    ... I don't have access either, as I am not staff to UNESCO. I was told about it from a university professor of psychology, years ago, who is also an avid bird watcher (a dying hobby of late but it still maintains some participants, and if you'd like some good first hand eye witness reports, people who have hobbies as bird watchers are such, and they will tell you all about what I call the living hell being visited on Earth today) and, I saw it at the UNESCO main office for China, in Beijing. Apparently you can access their portal through many universities as well. And, I did read it, and, I'm trying to have it become an active mandate as it is sitting idle. It was helpful when I was in Beijing, as it clearly states 24%, and this is hopefully spurring action there right now.

    And do you know something else, Pan. This thread has gone on too long for me now. Way too long. To me, it is like I am trying to carry you out of an area that I know is not survivable, and you keep grabbing the trees that we pass by as I am trying to take you to a place where you will be safe, making it way more difficult for me than it has to be. And, I also refuse to leave you behind.

    This is what this is like for me, ok buddy?

    I thought you said a while ago that you were wiping your feet on the way out? What happened?

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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by DarMar (here)
    Thing that bothers me most is attack and laughter earthlink received for bringing some real questions on board.
    But it is hard to fight over one thing when it ties all the vagons behind.. you can not change perception of o2 without changing whole perception and start noticing.

    Is it because ways he talk? i doubt so, because i got stomach sick with every nicer version of attack, because covering it in niceness makes it more slimy.. imho

    back to topic, would suggest that every one for himself should go investigate what;s happening with oxygen levels and stop linking science papers and newspaper evidence.
    What he says is completely true.
    People fall asleep lot easier there days, and you can see proof of lacking oxygen EVERYDAY, if you want to see.

    BUT if you like your metal pet-car and shoot dioxide in air feeling comfortably numb by thinking you save time and money for going to job... please, have people of LA saw sky lately ? can it be seen from SMOG after all?
    What do you exactly need to see? well most need to start literally chocking to death to realise, and that's sad part, even sadder than this one here where they come by and argue about validity of core broken concept.

    I'm 35, i never did sit in car and never would.
    Never used chems, spilled into ground and similar evryday s***

    I too have link with mother nature, and YES this is an ISSUE, one of biggest along with latest Bob's thread with food poisoning.

    TBH i never got angry by any of earthlink words, only thing i got angry is when he was sent on vacation from doing that first post???!? because of words?!?!?
    are not we the final factor and filter which does or does not understand?

    so many chems, aerosols, dioxide, ashes... yes machines to breed also take air?
    to have metal-pet you initally have to buy one, pay taxes for it, pay services, manage oil on month basis, pay registration pay road, pay parking, pay insurance, pay gas .... PAY WITH YOUR LIFE!!

    is clear to you by today that guys who want you to pay PRINT that same valute? print WHENEVER they want?

    if you read carefully in between lines it says: "ORGANIC LIFE GETS DESTROYED BY INORGANIC"
    if you are careful you will notice: "IT NEEDS YOU TO COMPLY FOR IT TO WORK BECAUSE YOU ARE THE EXECUTOR"
    if you are knowing: "YOU KNOW IT IS A TRICK-DECEPTION"

    and if you understand you will get stomach sick before even entering a car, until that stomach sick you will come to this thread and excuse your actions by same lamery and trickery.
    RESEARCH HAS TO BE DONE BY INDIVIDUAL FOR INDIVIDUAL

    Earthlink has pointed a finger... he did not tell you what you should expect to find there...
    it didn't work..

    Now i'm throwing a rock in that place so maybe you can spot it better... if not? who cares, i turn away and go another way, because it is already a FACTUAL thing that one cannot see... searching evidence in articles :D

    go run by a road for a 30 mins.. you will pick up more evidence than spending 30 days googling s**t
    G'day DarMar,

    Thanks for participating.

    I would be happy to believe Earthlink's claims as I'm a Permaculture advocate and work in my spare time at soil and environmental remediation/rehabilitation.

    Unfortunately Earthlink is making claims that have no foundation nor evidence outside of his own assertions.

    He has claimed that oxygen levels dropped over the 20th Century somewhere between 4% & 5%.

    He says he bases this on old text books that he has (or has seen) yet can not supply a copy of even one of them nor a reference for others to look at.

    The problem is that oxygen decline is a symptom of increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (due, in my opinion, largely to fossil fuel burning) and measurements show the close correlation.

    That is what Ralph Keeling at Scripps along with numerous others have been showing through their measurements and papers they have written.

    We all agree that Oxygen levels have been declining.

    That is not the problem.

    The problem is that Earthlink is trying to make a correlation between a vast array of (what I would call) unrelated events to say that O2 decline is the cause. For some of these to happen he claims that oxygen levels are much lower than anyone else has recorded.

    For example:
    He claimed that dead fish washed ashore in New Zealand was due to oxygen deficiency (ie a oceanic dead zone).
    We know that millions of fish get dumped off that coast every year (even a million fish dumped per year is around 3000 fish per day!). A regulatory problem makes it more economically viable for fishermen to dump certain fish types so they can avoid a fine for going over their allocated quota of that fish type.

    Which is more likely?
    1. A dead zone spontaneously appeared and then disappeared (which is possible if a tectonic uptake occurred in the area)
    2. A dead zone occurred because an undocumented drop in oxygen over the ocean lowered the oxygen level in the ocean (I've got no idea how that would even work) or
    3. A fishing boat dumped 1000's of fish off-shore at night to avoid a fine?

    Oh, and remember that the fish that washed up were all of the same type...

    He's also claiming that increased oxygen in the atmosphere would have no effect on fire volatility. This ignores the basic chemistry of the reaction that occurs during a fire. Lower oxygen retards a fire (or puts it out) increasing oxygen of course increases a fires access to oxygen and tends to increase the fires ability to consume fuel. The more oxygen is supplied the more fuel a fire can consume which makes the flames hotter.

    That's not really hard to understand and can be shown quite easily (search Youtube there are a number of demonstration videos).

    In a world with increased oxygen, wildfires would be harder to contain. Coming from Australia, where massive wildfires are becoming more regular due to a number of climatic changes, for me that is a terrifying thought.

    Of course everyone should believe what they want. I never claim anything else.

    My only point is that it should be an informed opinion that is based on verified facts.
    Kind Regards,
    Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    DarMar I do not expect you to answer for a thread that I began, and actually you said so above, you were just not heard, but please, as I began this thread I think Pan should only direct his questions to me, here, on this thread. Thank you.

  6. Link to Post #106
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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    ... I don't have access either, as I am not staff to UNESCO. I was told about it from a university professor of psychology, years ago, who is also an avid bird watcher (a dying hobby of late but it still maintains some participants, and if you'd like some good first hand eye witness reports, people who have hobbies as bird watchers are such, and they will tell you all about what I call the living hell being visited on Earth today) and, I saw it at the UNESCO main office for China, in Beijing. Apparently you can access their portal through many universities as well. And, I did read it, and, I'm trying to have it become an active mandate as it is sitting idle. It was helpful when I was in Beijing, as it clearly states 24%, and this is hopefully spurring action there right now.

    And do you know something else, Pan. This thread has gone on too long for me now. Way too long. To me, it is like I am trying to carry you out of an area that I know is not survivable, and you keep grabbing the trees that we pass by as I am trying to take you to a place where you will be safe, making it way more difficult for me than it has to be. And, I also refuse to leave you behind.

    This is what this is like for me, ok buddy?

    I thought you said a while ago that you were wiping your feet on the way out? What happened?
    Hey Earthlink,

    No worries. You can't provide the link or reference to the EOLSS article (eveh though you've used it in China). Fair enough.

    I resumed my participation in this thread after Jake said it was a discussions forum. I decided I agreed with his sagely advice.

    I only withdrew from the thread as you requested me to but in hindsight Jake was correct so I decided to resume asking questions and presenting evidence.

    I agree that bird numbers are in decline in certain bio-regions due largely to a combination of increased agricultural land, pesticides/insecticides (killing not only chicks but their food source) and, in my bio-region at least, heat-stress.

    Harkens back to Rachel Carson's Silent Spring doesn't it.

    A really good paper on the effect of insectides (if you have access to the journal Nature or try here) is:
    Declines in insectivorous birds are associated with high neonicotinoid concentrations

    Also here's a study that's relevant to the above paper:
    Large-Scale Changes in Community Composition: Determining Land Use and Climate Change Signals

    I hope these are useful.

    As for you trying to pull me from an unsafe forest...

    That's just a bit weird bloke. Pull your head in eh?

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    DarMar I do not expect you to answer for a thread that I began, and actually you said so above, you were just not heard, but please, as I began this thread I think Pan should only direct his questions to me, here, on this thread. Thank you.
    Yep, I have been.

    You just ain't answering.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    Here's a simple question for you Earthlink:

    What is your Oxygen Enrichment Program?

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    I added panopticon to my ignore list. this thread has gone on way too long, for me. even after he posted data which told of the tell tale blue lips effects of a lack of sufficient oxygen, and the video i posted with all those birds that died in Italy with blue lips, he still insists that i am telling lies, or, that i am not competent or something. my reports here are based on real world data and observations, nothing more.

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    Norway Avalon Member DarMar's Avatar
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    Default Re: O2

    isnt it funny how we all three agree that:
    Quote We all agree that Oxygen levels have been declining.
    and after that saying:
    Quote That is not the problem.


    Somehow i tried to say to you that you don't need to search for needle in haystack, because it is not needle you need to spotify.
    evidence you searching is non existant and in this control manipulation will never be..

    on your which is more likely question, i would vote for nr.3 even all 3 are possible and plausible to manifest due to lack of oxygen. But i can also add to it another 3000 of plausible reasons for someone to bang his head of possible solution.

    But what mystifies me most is arrangement of importance.. reminds me on my girlfriend
    i say to her thousand thank you, loving her being and respecting her every day for lets say month or two which keeps nice vibration, if ever, by any chance i say something bad in single second.. she falls so deep in depression that she needs a week to get out of it back to nice vibrations.. all that nice months are forgot in split second.. what puzzles me, how all that positive vibration didn't help her to raise again.. but quite all way around, one single bad word keeps getting her to forget all beauty of it..
    in transcription : positive messages got lost due to one stupidity moment and that moment overshadows all

    anyways back on thread.. i still could accept all 3 as a possibility, in fact all three can be manifested at same time from same reason, don't they?

    i dont look at demonstration videos, i in fact did BUNCH TONS OF THEM, for people that were convinced that is their truth.. i do not argue, i respect their truth
    that are all opinions, only factual thing is that oxygen is lowering and emissions from machinery are growing, period.

    that is left out of opinion because it manifests itself by being in this moment doing that.
    you can not power on a car that does not eat oxygen to keep fire burning and emits dioxide.. it is a fact. same as fact that you die if fact 1 becomes more and more normal.
    but is not only a car, it is an everyday reality need for every household today, computers do the same believe it or not,
    metal does it also just by beign metal ... do not believe? leave it in room for some time and come back and smell a room... it oxydates, there is reason why it is under earth, reason people forgot. Do i have scientific papers to prove reason of metal powers people forgot? Hell, no, and if i would, you think others would not, how would they forgot otherwise?

    what you are searching is quite impossible to get.. an black and white signed evidence that oppressor is oppressing.. in a times while they are indeed oppressing.. can it be more ankward?
    what you do with those papers on end?
    believe more?
    or believe less?
    is real question to ask.
    Be careful when wandering in the woods... The wolf may approach you... And if you are approached by a solitary wolf... It is not a wolf at all!

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  13. Link to Post #111
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    Default Re: O2

    here is the news report with the 8000 doves that died in italy. it is an actual news report, from the mainscream media. they do show a number of locations in this clip, but nowhere near all of them. this just keeps getting worse every year. thanks Pan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsM5MxMO-JE

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    Default Re: O2

    and, one of these days, i am going to go to the library and take some pictures from some older science books, just to have on file for myself the actual numbers from the historical record, which again, Pan, insisting that nothing had changed ... all while so much had in fact changed?!?, anyway when i do that, i'll post those pics here, of course. i'll start a new thread on that day.

    the thing is, why should i even have to do that? what possible reason would i have for making false observations regarding this?!?

    so frustrating

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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by DarMar (here)
    isnt it funny how we all three agree that:
    Quote We all agree that Oxygen levels have been declining.
    and after that saying:
    Quote That is not the problem.


    Somehow i tried to say to you that you don't need to search for needle in haystack, because it is not needle you need to spotify.
    evidence you searching is non existant and in this control manipulation will never be..

    on your which is more likely question, i would vote for nr.3 even all 3 are possible and plausible to manifest due to lack of oxygen. But i can also add to it another 3000 of plausible reasons for someone to bang his head of possible solution.

    But what mystifies me most is arrangement of importance.. reminds me on my girlfriend
    i say to her thousand thank you, loving her being and respecting her every day for lets say month or two which keeps nice vibration, if ever, by any chance i say something bad in single second.. she falls so deep in depression that she needs a week to get out of it back to nice vibrations.. all that nice months are forgot in split second.. what puzzles me, how all that positive vibration didn't help her to raise again.. but quite all way around, one single bad word keeps getting her to forget all beauty of it..
    in transcription : positive messages got lost due to one stupidity moment and that moment overshadows all

    anyways back on thread.. i still could accept all 3 as a possibility, in fact all three can be manifested at same time from same reason, don't they?

    i dont look at demonstration videos, i in fact did BUNCH TONS OF THEM, for people that were convinced that is their truth.. i do not argue, i respect their truth
    that are all opinions, only factual thing is that oxygen is lowering and emissions from machinery are growing, period.

    that is left out of opinion because it manifests itself by being in this moment doing that.
    you can not power on a car that does not eat oxygen to keep fire burning and emits dioxide.. it is a fact. same as fact that you die if fact 1 becomes more and more normal.
    but is not only a car, it is an everyday reality need for every household today, computers do the same believe it or not,
    metal does it also just by beign metal ... do not believe? leave it in room for some time and come back and smell a room... it oxydates, there is reason why it is under earth, reason people forgot. Do i have scientific papers to prove reason of metal powers people forgot? Hell, no, and if i would, you think others would not, how would they forgot otherwise?

    what you are searching is quite impossible to get.. an black and white signed evidence that oppressor is oppressing.. in a times while they are indeed oppressing.. can it be more ankward?
    what you do with those papers on end?
    believe more?
    or believe less?
    is real question to ask.
    I agree DarMar.

    You raise some very good points.

    Carbon Dioxide is most definitely on the rise and oxygen is most definitely in decline.

    The rate of increase/decrease is almost identical in the atmosphere.

    Problem is that there is much more oxygen (21%) as compared to Carbon Dioxide (0.04%) so the reduction in oxygen is actually very small.

    The oxygen reduction is used to illustrate how the carbon cycle works and how the use of fossil fuels creates carbon dioxide.

    Pretty straight forward and not contentious in the least.

    I hope this was helpful.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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  17. Link to Post #114
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    Default Re: O2

    Anyway, on the bright side, I am feeling happy right now. This is the, what, third time I posted a similar thread? And! this is the longest amount of time the thread has remained active, to date!!!



    some author said once that if you're going to tell people some truths, you had better make it funny, otherwise they may just kill you. in this moment, I am happy, and this is all the funny I can find in this topic. there will be no more after this, so, share in it for this moment. gear heads and scientists are not usually known for their sense of humour.

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  19. Link to Post #115
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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    and, one of these days, i am going to go to the library and take some pictures from some older science books, just to have on file for myself the actual numbers from the historical record, which again, Pan, insisting that nothing had changed ... all while so much had in fact changed?!?, anyway when i do that, i'll post those pics here, of course. i'll start a new thread on that day.

    the thing is, why should i even have to do that? what possible reason would i have for making false observations regarding this?!?

    so frustrating
    Please do. Would be lovely to see some evidence.

    Don't forget to reference the books while you're at it.

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    I added panopticon to my ignore list. this thread has gone on way too long, for me. even after he posted data which told of the tell tale blue lips effects of a lack of sufficient oxygen, and the video i posted with all those birds that died in Italy with blue lips, he still insists that i am telling lies, or, that i am not competent or something. my reports here are based on real world data and observations, nothing more.
    No worries, I'll still be replying to your comments.

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    here is the news report with the 8000 doves that died in italy. it is an actual news report, from the mainscream media. they do show a number of locations in this clip, but nowhere near all of them. this just keeps getting worse every year. thanks Pan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsM5MxMO-JE
    That's the same video we talked about a few days ago and you posted last year.

    The turtle doves may have died from eating sunflower seeds that then expanded in their gullets:

    Quote 'The most likely cause are discarded sunflower seeds that were found on an industrial estate close to where the bodies of the turtle doves were found.

    'In essence the birds were greedy, ate too many of the seeds - which we have found inside them during autopsies - and this brought on the indigestion that led to their death.'
    The sunflower seeds may have caused a reaction in the Doves that resulted in liver, kidney and cardiovascular systems crashing.

    Hence why they fell from the sky.

    Since you've added me to you ignore list can I assume that you don't want to tell us what the Oxygen Enrichment Program is that you have said you are spruiking to the Swiss and Chinese?

    Can someone else ask him cause truthfully I already thought I was on Earthlink's ignore settings...

    He sure as hell ain't been answering any questions...

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    Anyway, on the bright side, I am feeling happy right now. This is the, what, third time I posted a similar thread? And! this is the longest amount of time the thread has remained active, to date!!!

    some author said once that if you're going to tell people some truths, you had better make it funny, otherwise they may just kill you. in this moment, I am happy, and this is all the funny I can find in this topic. there will be no more after this, so, share in it for this moment. gear heads and scientists are not usually known for their sense of humour.
    Glad you're out of your depression.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    [...] even after he posted data which told of the tell tale blue lips effects of a lack of sufficient oxygen, and the video i posted with all those birds that died in Italy with blue lips, he still insists that i am telling lies, or, that i am not competent or something. my reports here are based on real world data and observations, nothing more.
    Birds with lips...?

    And since you've added pan to your ignore list, I'll repeat his and my question yet again; what is your Oxygen Enrichment Program?

    Nick

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    Default Re: O2

    The Oxygen Enrichment Program is a group of us who have gone ahead and activated the un-funded and idle mandate to restore the O2 level of the atmosphere to 24% and keep it there.

    You don't agree with this Nick, so why should you care what this program is? You're not going to help with it either, so ...

    You also don't believe there to be any bad effects from using billions of internal combustion engines on a daily basis, and you refuse to believe that gauges do not lie: they are incapable of lying. People lie all the time, and, they are completely capable of lying all the time.

    And all the while, the real effects from using so many ICE's is ripping through The Animal Kingdom today, as the knowledge of its' known effects has succumbed to people who lie all the time.

    You may even believe that no human deaths can directly be attributed to this, and that humans are the only species that count, however cancer thrives in an oxygen depleted environment and cancer has a hard time existing at all in an oxygen rich environment, so, the effects of this already have killed many. Other respiratory ailments and diseases have also been rising in frequency to match this lower O2 level, and the effects of this on the Human population itself have already been many. Billions already, I'd say.

    Anyway, it is the un-funded mandate to return the sky to 24% and to keep it there.

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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    The Oxygen Enrichment Program is a group of us who have gone ahead and activated the un-funded and idle mandate to restore the O2 level of the atmosphere to 24% and keep it there.

    You don't agree with this Nick, so why should you care what this program is? You're not going to help with it either, so ...

    You also don't believe there to be any bad effects from using billions of internal combustion engines on a daily basis, and you refuse to believe that gauges do not lie: they are incapable of lying. People lie all the time, and, they are completely capable of lying all the time.

    And all the while, the real effects from using so many ICE's is ripping through The Animal Kingdom today, as the knowledge of its' known effects has succumbed to people who lie all the time.

    You may even believe that no human deaths can directly be attributed to this, and that humans are the only species that count, however cancer thrives in an oxygen depleted environment and cancer has a hard time existing at all in an oxygen rich environment, so, the effects of this already have killed many. Other respiratory ailments and diseases have also been rising in frequency to match this lower O2 level, and the effects of this on the Human population itself have already been many. Billions already, I'd say.

    Anyway, it is the un-funded mandate to return the sky to 24% and to keep it there.
    Sounds like an interesting project.

    Can someone ask how Earthlink's group is generating the oxygen please.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  26. Link to Post #120
    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: O2

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    The Oxygen Enrichment Program is a group of us who have gone ahead and activated the un-funded and idle mandate to restore the O2 level of the atmosphere to 24% and keep it there.
    Well that's something, but how does it work? That's what would be interesting, whether I believe your oxygen figures or not. Others reading this thread now and in future may believe you, so for them how about posting more details of this program? You may get some support.

    Quote Posted by Earthlink (here)
    You also don't believe there to be any bad effects from using billions of internal combustion engines [ICEs] on a daily basis, and you refuse to believe that gauges do not lie: they are incapable of lying. People lie all the time, and, they are completely capable of lying all the time.
    I've NEVER said billions of ICEs have no bad effects. They obviously do as does burning any fossil fuel for any reason. But there is simply no accurate data saying the oxygen decline as as steep as you are claiming. If it were, every school and university lab doing routine demos for students would notice this decline. It's simply ridiculous to suggest a change so significant that you can detect it yourself with a 'gauge' has gone unnoticed by tens of thousands of labs all over the world.

    Why don't you ask some universities to confirm your findings? Universities are full of students keen to disprove what they've been told by their lecturers and books, or they certainly used to be! So, will you do that? Surely you want your findings to be independently corroborated so all us nay-sayers will have to eat our words.

    As for your statement about gauges not lying, as engineers we both know that's untrue. Gauges can be badly calibrated, badly placed, incorrectly read, of an incorrect type, reading the wrong parameter, incorrectly interpreted or just plain broken!

    Nick

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