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Thread: Wes Penre's levels of learning

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    United States Avalon Member Jules's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Divine Feminine (here)
    Something I've noticed is that when I think that I'm becoming more and more fearless, there is something showing me that there's even silly things that I'm still afraid of; as if the Universe corrected me and said, "Don't come here and think that you don't have a lot of fears" LOL. We humans have a lot of baggage.
    Why is it that sometimes we go where others tremble to tread with no fear in us, and yet the smallest things (like traffic) scare us? We are a work in progress, no doubt. Anyway, I appreciate your writings, I was on your webpage almost 15-20 years ago (can you believe it). I never in a million years thought I would be conversing on Bill Ryan's forum with you! Truth is stranger than fiction. I wish you well in your education, as well as spiritual development. Good luck on your research and writings.

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    United States Avalon Member Wes Penre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Why is it that sometimes we go where others tremble to tread with no fear in us, and yet the smallest things (like traffic) scare us? We are a work in progress, no doubt. Anyway, I appreciate your writings, I was on your webpage almost 15-20 years ago (can you believe it). I never in a million years thought I would be conversing on Bill Ryan's forum with you! Truth is stranger than fiction. I wish you well in your education, as well as spiritual development. Good luck on your research and writings.
    Yes, that's when I started. Well, I bought my absolute first computer in 1998 and published the first few articles on the www by the end of that year. That's what was to become "Illuminati News" (http://illuminati-news.com/)--the giant database that's still on the web and is still attracting the most visitors of all my websites. I like that website even though I am not updating it anymore. The information that's in there is what attracts people who are starting to wake up and want to explore. I don't mean that the info that's posted there is just for beginners--it's a giant database consisting of all sorts of information on the Illuminati, ETs, mind-control, mind-control in the music industry plus spiritual stuff--but I'm happy to see that Illuminati News is often the first, or one of the first websites new learners find on the web, and they write me with questions. I notice how enthusiastic many of these new people are, and I remember how I felt the same way in the beginning. I still feel the enthusiasm when I'm discovering new things, but it's different than it was back then when everything was new.

    The first article I ever wrote was the "Read first" article on that same website (http://www.illuminati-news.com/moriah.htm). It's quite amazing to hear from someone who was there and saw it develop! Thanks for sharing, Jules!
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Started reading a few days ago and it surely will take me whole spring and summer to study the 2864 pages seriously for a first round. Yes, I will. It seems that I've found a map and a navigation tool, to organize and sort out my thoughts/ideas that have accumulated over the last 15 years and a solid foundation for discussion and further learning.

    (I've been criss-crossing the available New Age libraries and been following PC/PA, but the picture remained kind of fragmentary, often contradictory (which is no fault, but in this case I needed a link to access a level where the various information can be related to each other in a reasonable way.)

    And above all, I thank you for providing the translation (which is already available and more to come). Being able to read this body of complex and highly interrelated issues in my mother tongue will help a lot. Thank you. Iloveyou.

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Thank you 'Clarity' for starting this thread, Wes is new to me so I am a little embarrassed I guess I took another route, all roads... and all that.
    Hello to Wes and welcome to Avalon! Thank you for this huge body of work, a quest for sure. (I am reading from the beginning and currently on level one) Below I have pasted a small quote from the paper 'Human Origins and the Living Library', sub heading 'Zeta Reticulans AKA Grays' a thought crossed my mind as I read this - there may be a clue here regarding the origin of the 'psychopath' so thought I would jot it down. (It may of course be covered at some later point)

    Quote Because the nuclear disaster affected everybody on the planet, all kinds of diversity was going on underground, too. They seemed to have one thing in common, though. After had pondered their new situation they came to the conclusion that the reason for the catastrophe was the species' emotional side. Therefore, they agreed to take out the emotional part from their biokind/biomind, and thus became quite emotionless.
    "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves" C. G. Jung

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    United States Avalon Member Wes Penre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Iloveyou (here)
    Started reading a few days ago and it surely will take me whole spring and summer to study the 2864 pages seriously for a first round. Yes, I will. It seems that I've found a map and a navigation tool, to organize and sort out my thoughts/ideas that have accumulated over the last 15 years and a solid foundation for discussion and further learning.

    (I've been criss-crossing the available New Age libraries and been following PC/PA, but the picture remained kind of fragmentary, often contradictory (which is no fault, but in this case I needed a link to access a level where the various information can be related to each other in a reasonable way.)

    And above all, I thank you for providing the translation (which is already available and more to come). Being able to read this body of complex and highly interrelated issues in my mother tongue will help a lot. Thank you. Iloveyou.
    Hello Iloveyou! It looks to me when I study your profile that your first language is French, and the translators I am currently working with are Spanish, German, and French! I have already started posting the German and Spanish translations (and the Spanish one seems to go the fastest). If any of the readers of this forum prefers reading the papers in any of these three languages, there are links to these version on the main page (http://wespenre.com/). Almost at the top of the page you can see the three flags representing the three countries. Click on the link under the flag which represents yours, and there you have it! Remember, though, that all translations are under construction and each paper will be added as soon as they are translated. The only link that won't work yet is, unfortunately, the French one. The French translator wants to complete reading the First Level of Learning before starting translating. So the French pages may take a little longer, but will hopefully be a reality, too!

    Thank you for your interest in the papers, Iloveyou!
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    United States Avalon Member Wes Penre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Gardener (here)
    Thank you 'Clarity' for starting this thread, Wes is new to me so I am a little embarrassed I guess I took another route, all roads... and all that.
    Hello to Wes and welcome to Avalon! Thank you for this huge body of work, a quest for sure. (I am reading from the beginning and currently on level one) Below I have pasted a small quote from the paper 'Human Origins and the Living Library', sub heading 'Zeta Reticulans AKA Grays' a thought crossed my mind as I read this - there may be a clue here regarding the origin of the 'psychopath' so thought I would jot it down. (It may of course be covered at some later point)

    Quote Because the nuclear disaster affected everybody on the planet, all kinds of diversity was going on underground, too. They seemed to have one thing in common, though. After had pondered their new situation they came to the conclusion that the reason for the catastrophe was the species' emotional side. Therefore, they agreed to take out the emotional part from their biokind/biomind, and thus became quite emotionless.
    Hi Gardener! The quote comes from Lyssa Royal's and Keith Priest's "The Prism of Lyra." It describes how the Greys supposedly were attacked in the Lyran system and their planet went into a wormhole, or something similar, and came out in the Zeta Reticuli system. I got it confirmed by the Life Physics Group California head quantum physicist, Dr. A.R. Bordon (recently deceased) that such a thing could happen to a planet. To make a long story short, the Greys allegedly have their current features because they were subjected to a large quantity of radiation. A decent amount of the Greys who lived underground on their planet survived the transition, and also got quite resistant to radiation.

    So far Royal/Priest. My Third Level of Learning is about my analysis of channeling (and The Prism of Lyra is channeled). When I analyzed a lot of channeled material, I also looked into the "Grey" issue. There could actually be a basic truth to the Royal/Priest story above because my research led me to conclude (by using several independent sources) that the Alien Invader Force (whom I call the "AIF" and others call the "Anunnaki") are somehow connected with the Greys, and the Greys also seem to be both 3-D and interdimensional. When I continued digging, I came to the realization that there are many different kinds of Greys with different agendas. I'd like to talk a little bit about that. It's easiest if I categorize them this way:

    1. The Zeta Greys. I am not even sure if they are in the Earth vicinity anymore, or if they ever were. See, their genetic setup is possibly what the AIF, led by the geneticist Lord En.ki, used in #2 below. We often hear about the Zeta Greys in Exopolitics, but I don't believe that the Greys that people are encountering are the original Zetas. Again, see #2 here below.

    2. The AIF space suit. Because the Grey prototype (or template) is resistant to radiation and can also resist the harshness of space, En.ki and the AIF decided to use the Zetas' by radiation altered DNA (after the Zeta War, when their bodies were subjected to radiation) to build "space suits." The AIF are all interdimensional beings, and if they want to mingle with people of Earth, they would either have to,

    a) use their avatars to shapeshift into any form they like (most of the time the human form, in order to blend in). They have the ability to lower the vibration of their avatar so that they show up in 3-D. They seem to be as solid as you and I, and you can shake hands with them and won't notice that they are not humans. They do this for temporary visits and to shock people by all of a sudden materialize out of nothing and disappear just as sudden if they like, but it becomes uncomfortable for them to stay in a shapeshifted form here in 3-D too long, and they tend to "bleed through" and go in and out between dimensions after a while, and will thus be detected. Hence, this is only for temporary visits.

    b) Just as you and I, they can take a human baby body and grow up here, but with the help from their technology they can make sure that they have total recall--no amnesia, as you and I have. However, they need to choose a certain bloodline, strong enough to carry their energy. There are actually AIF members who choose this option for certain reasons when this option is needed.

    c) They become "walk-ins." They take over a body that is already occupied by a human soul. That way they don't have to go through childhood. The human soul is either "kicked out" or put to sleep. There is usually a soul agreement between the human soul and the AIF soul when this happens (i.e. the human soul has been manipulated to agree to this in the Afterlife). There are certain universal laws the AIF doesn't want to break. As much as they can, they want to blame all the bad things that happen on humans. "Look, we didn't do it! The humans did it!" Or, "We did it, but the humans agreed! They are our allies, see?" This is important. They manipulate us so that we unwittingly agree to do the job for the AIF all the time (think about it and you'll see that I'm right). That way, the AIF gets away with it. "See, the humans are on our side!" This means, no one can help us because we are "technically" on the AIF's side--it doesn't matter if it's unwittingly. It's up to us to put our energies where they should belong. We are an evolving race and benevolent beings can't interfere with an evolving race; it goes against universal laws. Therefore, we're on our own as long as we "agree" with the AIF. We're not going to be treated like little babies by other, benevolent star beings. It's up to us to learn who's a friend and who's the foe.

    d) The AIF have chambers on Earth, on Mars, and other places in the solar system where they keep human bodies in deep slumber. These are genetically engineered bodies, particularly created in a way so that an AIF soul can occupy them at any given moment and give these bodies life. Then they use these bodies when visiting Earth. You see, interdimensional beings don't travel through space in 3-D. They either travel with thought only, or interdimensionally, using stargates, Einstein-Rosen bridges and black holes, etc. No one travels between the stars in 3-D bodies.

    e) They use "space-suits". Here is where the Zeta Greys space suits come in, so let's go back to talk about those:

    The AIF are using the Grey templates to use as “space suits.” This means that AIF souls occupy these genetically manipulated Grey bodies and operate them as their own. The Grey bodies are 3-D and can thereby be used here on Earth and in space, when they want to travel within the solar system or at its outer fringes. A human body can’t withstand the harshness of space; the radiation being the number one obstacle. Therefore, no human body has traveled in NASA space suits to the Moon or to Mars—that’s impossible! They would have died before they knew it! That doesn’t mean that humans haven’t been to the moon or to Mars—they have. But they have traveled through stargates, bridges, and wormholes. A couple of seconds and “snap!” they’re there!

    Anyway, many people say that they’ve seen the Nordics together with the Greys. No, what they have seen is the AIF (Anunnaki) being in shapeshifted mode, accompanied by other Anunnaki in Grey 3-D space suits!

    So this is ONE type of Greys. In my next post, I’ll talk about the second type of Greys.
    Last edited by Wes Penre; 7th March 2015 at 19:45.
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    United States Avalon Member Wes Penre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    More kinds of Greys

    In Part One (the post above) I talked about the first kind of Greys, which are the "Zeta Greys," whose radiation resistant DNA has been used by the AIF (Anunnaki) to build biological bodies very similar to the original 3-D Zeta Greys. Some AIF members can then occupy these Grey "space suit bodies" with their souls and animate them here in 3-D. They use these bodies all the time to travel within our solar system. This is why we see the 3-D, 4ft sized Greys so often--they are AIF in disguise. Now, let's go to Grey type #2.

    Grey Type 2. I wrote about this type of Greys in the Third Level of Learning as well. They are actually us in the future. Some of these Greys have been channeled, and they call themselves "social memory complexes." They are run by a super-computer and have something similar to a "hive-mind," even though they still are capable of some individual thinking. I know many people who read this have heard of this before, but bear with me; this information will differ from the common information on this topic. These Greys are us in the future! It certainly seems like channeled material, such as the "Ra Material," comes from one group of these beings (they exist on different timelines).

    In my papers, I discuss the "Machine Kingdom" to quite some extent. Very briefly, humanity is now at a crossroads; we can either decide to evolve on our own--without being manipulated by the AIF, or we get seduced by their technology (i.e. smart phones, computers, iPads, iPods...you name it) and choose to go in that direction. These devices are thus far only bad copies of what the AIF had during the Atlantean Era, but the AIF is rapidly improving these devices, as you have noticed, because they already have that technology + a thousand times more advanced technology as well. As you can see, young people in particular are totally absorbed by this new "smart technology." Everything that contains the word "smart" is part of the new trap. You have also heard of "Smart Cities," I'm sure. The bottom line is that the AIF is now promoting Artificial Intelligence, super-soldiers, cyborgs, robots, singularity, New World Order, One World Government--it's all part of the same plan to "cyborgize" humanity. They want to create cyborgs--half humans and half machines. They will do it by introducing immortality to humans--immortality doesn't mean that the bodies live forever, but these cyborg machines will have body parts that can easily be replaced, and worn-out parts can be exchanged with new ones, etc. and therefore the human life will be greatly extended. You get the picture. This is the Machine Kingdom. However, it will be harder and harder to get a body here on Earth because the soul will reject many of these cyborg bodies--they don't fit the template that the human soul is used to incarnate into.

    The AIF's goal is to use humanity as super-soldiers in future Space Wars, and the goal is to attack Orion and overthrow the Orion Queen and Khan En.lil. En.ki (Lucifer) wants the throne--something he's wanted since Lucifer's Rebellion. He will use humans as shields, and humanity will go to war against their creators, the Orions! Many will be annihilated and their avatars destroyed forever (I explained in a previous post how that works), and there goes their personality (or what is left of it). Mankind will have the door into Orion closed in front of their faces--perhaps forever. They will totally screw up their eternity!

    The AIF has their own Empire, and they have done similar things as they've done to us humans in other star systems, too, so they have built a huge army already. They are just biding their time before they attack Orion from different angles. It will not happen in a few hundred years or so, but this is the plan!

    Some of the cyborg bodies will look similar to the Zeta Greys, but some will be larger; others will be smaller, and there will be different variants of this body type occupied by very ignorant human souls, who have been deeply brainwashed into accepting the Machine Kingdom out of convenience. Watch out, because this is coming creeping upon us all, and even the most awake person may fall for it. "Oh, I want that smart phone!" "Only one more device, then I'm good!" etc. etc. It's very easy to slowly but surely fall into their trap again as we did a long time ago when we were already multi-d! Many people ask me how multi-d beings such as ourselves could be fooled by the AIF once upon a time to enter the genetically manipulated bodies we are currently in, but it's very easily done--souls are curious and get easily excited by new discoveries.

    Now we have Bashar, Lyssa Royal's Greys, the Ra Material, the Council of 9, and a bunch of other channeled material, which are all the Greys channeling through humans. They are Greys on slightly different timelines, but they are all us in the future at a different stage of development. They were all slaves to the AIF and became "The Greys" from the future. These Greys are interdimenisonal and some of them are abducting people. There are Grey humans on certain timelines that have lost so much of their humanity that they no longer understand human feelings. Hence, they kidnap humans in their sleep or driving their cars, separate the human avatar from their body and suck them up into their interdimensional spaceships and do cruel experiments on these human avatars/light-bodies. Then they shoot them back into the human body again. So, it's not the human body that's hijacked--it's the avatar. And it's the avatar who sees the Reptilians, the Greys, the Preying Mantis, and so on. These are the interdimensional bodies of the abductors--they bodies they choose to operate in. The abductee is transferred through walls etc., like it was nothing. Of course, it's not the 3-D body that's kidnapped--it's the avatar (light-body)!

    These human Greys try to get their humanity back and find the "code" in the human DNA to use so they can go back to the state before they were manipulated into becoming "Greys"--half machines and half humans.

    Some say there are other types of Greys out there in the Universe, and that the Grey body type is common, but I can't comment on that because I don't know. Personally, I doubt it. Those who think there is are probably mixing them up with any of the categories I have described above. Remember that there is no real distance in the KHAA (the VOID), and the AIF Empire can expand into other galaxies, too--and it has! Hence, the Grey that people may refer to could be Greys from let's say Andromeda, but still Greys used by the AIF for the same reasons as they use them here in "Sector 9," which is our sector of the Milky Way Galaxy.

    Hope this helps to give some new insights to the reader!

    Love, Wes
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    United States Avalon Member Wes Penre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    What I am writing about on this thread is just synopses or excerpts from my Papers--nothing of this should be looked at as a substitute, making it unnecessary to read the papers. They are not a "summary" either (something that was asked for in a previous post). To get the full picture, please read the papers--they need to be read in their entirety in order to grasp the full concept. I can't emphasize that enough! They are free of charge, so you have nothing to lose.

    There is only one reason why I'm stressing so much that I want you to actually read the papers: I love humanity, and I truly, truly believe that I've stumbled upon something that will help humanity, perhaps tremendously.--both practically in this life and mentally/spiritually--in a more eternal way. Then, if the reader totally discards everything that's in the papers, that's perfectly okay with me. At least I know that a person who does that has read them, and in the future, when he/she notices something they haven't noticed before and might have a feeling that they read about that somewhere, they still may remember where the information came from and can go back and review.

    This is my hope, but now I promise not to mention this on this thread again! :-)
    Last edited by Wes Penre; 7th March 2015 at 19:35.
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Hi Wes! (Hi Forum!)

    You suggest that reading your Papers and understanding the Control System is enough to be able to Escape Traps for our Consciousness so that upon death we can Escape Enki's Trap and explore other worlds before deciding to come back to Earth or not.

    Considering that you and others paint such a dire picture about Life on Earth, I personally believe your Papers, as they are, might lead some people toward a dangerous choice.

    http://in5d.com/how-to-escape-lucifers-afterlife-trap/

    IMO, this article that you wrote, as it stands, is dangerous, as is the overall Light Trap Meme.

    I find your Papers alluring, on account that you have investigated, categorized, and compiled a whole lot of different ancient and modern works, but including the Light Trap Idea might spoil it for me.

    Even the way you present your work here in this thread is a bit juvenile IMO.

    There are a lot of young people getting into Spirituality these days, but they are being presented with a never ending parade of Convoluted Ideas, missing out on what was once fundamentally Inspiring Tradition of Ancient Wisdom found in Eastern Mysticism and Occult Knowledge Systems.

    To suggest to a young and perhaps despondent person that Life on Earth is almost Hopelessly controlled by Super Powerful Aliens (something that is still pure speculation, at least as to who or what is really in control) could take away all desire for a Good and Progressive Physical and Spiritual Life on Earth.

    You wrote earlier in this thread:

    Quote "Just as in LEVEL I and LEVEL IV, in LEVEL V I discuss the Afterlife to quite some extent, and I also offer a way out of En.ki’s trap—a way to escape the endless enforced reincarnation cycle, so we can become real multidimensional beings again, as we once were before the AIF came and started a war here against the Original Planners of Earth, the Living Library ... The escape from this trap is simple, but the reader needs to have this background information about our past, or they will not succeed; something that will be self-evident as you read the papers. Therefore, you will also see why it’s so important to understand our past!"
    If I were an impressionable young person looking for some Truth in the World, and I took your statement above to Heart, what would stop me from concluding something like this:

    -Life on Earth is controlled by Powerful Aliens that are holding us prisoners. Well that's DEPRESSING!

    -But If I read Wes Penre's Papers and come to that understanding, upon death all I have to do to be Free is avoid The Tunnel of Light, which might lead to Implant Stations that will recycle me back to this Prison Planet, and instead, move away from it and fly through an opening in a Grid that keeps us trapped here(?).

    -Why don't I simply just blow my head off once I'm done reading the Papers, and fly off into outerspace!?


    Do you see what I'm getting at?

    At first glance, I find your work alluring, since you cover so many new and old Myths and Speculations about Life and Death, but at the end of the day, it is all Speculation and Hypothesis (as is any all worldviews on many levels). You do not seem to have any Systemic Base (no one foundation or Metaphysical Knowledge Base), but draw from totally different systems and sources altogether, which is something way too many folks are doing these days, IMO.

    You call it your "Truth", but glancing at some of your sources, I'm now considering that your "Hypothesis" is based on too many fraudulent and fictional sources, at least in regard to The Light Trap Meme that you seem to be so fond of as to consider writing a whole book about it.

    http://wespenre.com/there-is-a-light...the-tunnel.htm

    In this paper you chose Disinformation over Experiential sources.

    While the NDE experience confirms what Ancient and Modern meta-physicians wrote about the process of death and in between lives, which accords to the Ancient Wisdom and the Spiritual Evolution Idea, you seem to have chosen to base your Light Trap ideas from sources like LR Hubbard, Robert Morning Sky, and the Wingmakers material.

    Those three sources are terrible, IMO. Especially Robert Morning Sky who is an outright fraud. The Wingmakers material and LR Hubbard are linked to Intelligence Agency Disinformation campaigns (which IMO are partially designed to spoil genuine Spirituality).

    It's weird, because I did try reading some of your papers, like that one I linked above, but I kept thinking, "huh? Why is he basing things on these terrible sources?"

    A brief investigative read of your Paper contents now reveal to me that it is a trend in your Papers. So I'm on the fence here.

    What I'm basically saying is, I really think the Light Trap Meme is very dangerous, and that it could lead to ruin and the worst king of escapism in the wrong minds, as I tried to illustrate above.

    I understand it is a complicated subject, but perhaps we could all discuss it some more right here on this forum before you go off and write an entire book about it.

    Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Misty; 8th March 2015 at 20:49.

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Misty (here)
    <snip> What I'm basically saying is, I really think the Light Trap Meme is very dangerous, and that it could lead to ruin and the worst king of escapism in the wrong minds, as I tried to illustrate above.

    I understand it is a complicated subject, but perhaps we could all discuss it some more right here on this forum before you go off and write an entire book about it.

    Thanks for reading.
    Going to the light, or not, as one croaks may simply be different paths to explore. Not something to get too upset about. It is not the end. Just a fork in the road, different paths of learning. We have all probably been slaves, masters and everything in between.

    It would be nice to have the answers in advance of experience, but that is like a child saying to parents “But Mom, I can’t go to school because I don’t know how to read.”

    But we do have guidance in the form of intuition, and in simply listening to our physical bodies when decisions arise. One path will feel better than another. While traveling a chosen path, if it starts to feel bad, turn around and go the other way. Or choose differently next time using a more finely tuned intuition. The best choices are made when the rational mind and intuition are in alignment.

    If we accept that we are eternal beings and look at events from a higher perspective, it *may* be inaccurate to label any experience as wrong. (I am not there yet.) Perhaps the biggest mistake is to ignore one's internal guidance and do something someone else has chosen for us.

    For me, the decision to go to the light or not, is interesting, no fear involved. An exciting event to be sure. Will I be clever enough to choose a path of freedom, well being and joy? Wish I knew.

    For those new to the forum who may want to do more research, you may enjoy the thread Simon Parkes about Mantis Aliens, Reptiles and other aliens. The light trap, and the latest news of Anu (ruler of the Draco Reptilians, father of Enki (some associate Enki with the light trap)) are discussed there.

    In joy, safety and harmony we step into the unknown.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 11th March 2015 at 19:39.

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    I think Misty is in part right, and Wes is in part right (the real thinking of mine is that it would make a wonderful collaboration for overall global grasping material, if they wanted)

    I agree that many of the sources Wes uses are corrupted. Yet, this is the information imparted in pièces and bits everywhere on the web and he made a collective in a coherent way of all the pièces. And i think we have to have this kind of coherent work to be in turn able to compare and analyse and introduce the other ages old metaphysical/spiritual works coherently and in comparison, be able to chose and understand.

    The problem is bringing things as being the truth when they are unsubstantiated, either scientifically (the blue birds in the other thread) or experientially (true evolution individually for example).

    The extraordinary work Wes has done is bringing in a coherent manner what is presented on the web, info and disinfo included. And yes, it could influence the Young souls to go through desperation at some point.

    May be providing a balance approach (the other side) could be helpful Misty.

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Misty (here)
    Hi Wes! (Hi Forum!)

    You suggest that reading your Papers and understanding the Control System is enough to be able to Escape Traps for our Consciousness so that upon death we can Escape Enki's Trap and explore other worlds before deciding to come back to Earth or not.

    Considering that you and others paint such a dire picture about Life on Earth, I personally believe your Papers, as they are, might lead some people toward a dangerous choice.

    http://in5d.com/how-to-escape-lucifers-afterlife-trap/

    IMO, this article that you wrote, as it stands, is dangerous, as is the overall Light Trap Meme.

    I find your Papers alluring, on account that you have investigated, categorized, and compiled a whole lot of different ancient and modern works, but including the Light Trap Idea might spoil it for me.

    Even the way you present your work here in this thread is a bit juvenile IMO.

    There are a lot of young people getting into Spirituality these days, but they are being presented with a never ending parade of Convoluted Ideas, missing out on what was once fundamentally Inspiring Tradition of Ancient Wisdom found in Eastern Mysticism and Occult Knowledge Systems.

    To suggest to a young and perhaps despondent person that Life on Earth is almost Hopelessly controlled by Super Powerful Aliens (something that is still pure speculation, at least as to who or what is really in control) could take away all desire for a Good and Progressive Physical and Spiritual Life on Earth.

    You wrote earlier in this thread:

    Quote "Just as in LEVEL I and LEVEL IV, in LEVEL V I discuss the Afterlife to quite some extent, and I also offer a way out of En.ki’s trap—a way to escape the endless enforced reincarnation cycle, so we can become real multidimensional beings again, as we once were before the AIF came and started a war here against the Original Planners of Earth, the Living Library ... The escape from this trap is simple, but the reader needs to have this background information about our past, or they will not succeed; something that will be self-evident as you read the papers. Therefore, you will also see why it’s so important to understand our past!"
    If I were an impressionable young person looking for some Truth in the World, and I took your statement above to Heart, what would stop me from concluding something like this:

    -Life on Earth is controlled by Powerful Aliens that are holding us prisoners. Well that's DEPRESSING!

    -But If I read Wes Penre's Papers and come to that understanding, upon death all I have to do to be Free is avoid The Tunnel of Light, which might lead to Implant Stations that will recycle me back to this Prison Planet, and instead, move away from it and fly through an opening in a Grid that keeps us trapped here(?).

    -Why don't I simply just blow my head off once I'm done reading the Papers, and fly off into outerspace!?


    Do you see what I'm getting at?

    At first glance, I find your work alluring, since you cover so many new and old Myths and Speculations about Life and Death, but at the end of the day, it is all Speculation and Hypothesis (as is any all worldviews on many levels). You do not seem to have any Systemic Base (no one foundation or Metaphysical Knowledge Base), but draw from totally different systems and sources altogether, which is something way too many folks are doing these days, IMO.

    You call it your "Truth", but glancing at some of your sources, I'm now considering that your "Hypothesis" is based on too many fraudulent and fictional sources, at least in regard to The Light Trap Meme that you seem to be so fond of as to consider writing a whole book about it.

    http://wespenre.com/there-is-a-light...the-tunnel.htm

    In this paper you chose Disinformation over Experiential sources.

    While the NDE experience confirms what Ancient and Modern meta-physicians wrote about the process of death and in between lives, which accords to the Ancient Wisdom and the Spiritual Evolution Idea, you seem to have chosen to base your Light Trap ideas from sources like LR Hubbard, Robert Morning Sky, and the Wingmakers material.

    Those three sources are terrible, IMO. Especially Robert Morning Sky who is an outright fraud. The Wingmakers material and LR Hubbard are linked to Intelligence Agency Disinformation campaigns (which IMO are partially designed to spoil genuine Spirituality).

    It's weird, because I did try reading some of your papers, like that one I linked above, but I kept thinking, "huh? Why is he basing things on these terrible sources?"

    A brief investigative read of your Paper contents now reveal to me that it is a trend in your Papers. So I'm on the fence here.

    What I'm basically saying is, I really think the Light Trap Meme is very dangerous, and that it could lead to ruin and the worst king of escapism in the wrong minds, as I tried to illustrate above.

    I understand it is a complicated subject, but perhaps we could all discuss it some more right here on this forum before you go off and write an entire book about it.

    Thanks for reading.
    Dear Misty,

    I do understand your concern.

    The reason, however, why I wrote the papers was because the more I dug into these subjects I’m covering, I noticed that this “explains it,” so to speak. If you read Level IV and V, you will see that my references come from existing sources that have been cross-checked, and I have used syncretism to make sure I got it right. There are very few sources I can't reveal, but that's the nature of it. I wouldn't use them, if I personally weren't sure about the validity. However, each person who reads my papers, or whatever material they read, need to use their discernment. That goes for my work and everybody else. Take to heart or discard; that's the only thing people can do.

    Is the truth really depressing? Is a solution to a problem depressing if it is working?

    I don’t think so, and I am not alone. I can honestly say that I am overwhelmed by people who have read the papers and write to me and thank me from the bottom of their heart, and many of these people are teenagers and in their twenties. The emails are too many for me to respond to. If they really understand what they’re reading, it’s certainly not a depressing read. When you read something that rings true to you, you feel it in your entire body. That’s what all these people who have contacted me have done. Knowledge does break the chains. It has nothing to do with whether the knowledge is joyful or serious in nature.

    I would never restrain myself from writing what I have concluded being correct, or what I am concluding is leading in the correct direction--for any reason. It may be cheerful information, or it may be more serious; it doesn’t matter. It is what it is. I can’t stop exposing things because things are “serious,” or neglecting to expose what is there in front of our eyes and only choose what is “uplifting.” I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did. That is not 'uplifting' to me; the only thing that’s uplifting is what’s correct; whether it’s “serious” or “joyful.” That is what will eventually free people from have been slaves to an extraterrestrial invader force for many millennia.

    I am not saying I have all the answers--not at all--but I am saying that what the papers cover is correct enough to help people move forward, and I do say that they are an important piece of the puzzle. I'm not going to stick that under the table. Now it's up for the readers to discern and decide.

    I certainly respect your point of view on the papers; I have no problems with that. I am just telling you my point of view and why I wrote them. And I can guarantee you that none of the emails I have received since I wrote the first papers have come from people who are depressed after have read them. It's the opposite, Misty. They can't wait for the next paper. If anything, I have felt pressured to write the next paper, and then the next because I knew that people were waiting for them with excitement. I am not exaggerating.
    Last edited by Wes Penre; 9th March 2015 at 00:02.
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Oh, I forgot one thing. The "light trap" in Level I was bringing up the research of the people you mention in your email, such as Hubbard, Morning Sky, and the WingMakers. This was back in 2011. However, as the reader continues exploring the papers, they will understand that the light trap conclusion I finally make in the "upper levels of learning" is not based on these sources. All the material from Level I to V is my own development in my research--something I emphasize many time throughout the material. Those who read the papers will see exactly how I developed my own knowledge as I went along. So, the papers in themselves are showing my own development in my research. This is what I'm sharing with the world. Level IV and V then conclude the entire concept I was trying to share already from the beginning. However, new pieces to the puzzle showed up as I moved along, if this makes sense (the papers are 5 years continuous research). The reader can see precisely how that happens as they go along, reading the Levels of Learning, one by one.

    Now the papers are finished, and I know they are finished because they are "concluded." They make a point; they explain the problems; they explain who is behind these problems, and they give the reader a workable solution. I don't mean that reading the papers is all we need to do, either. I mean, if you read the papers and practice what you've learned from them, you will make a difference and will also make a considerable contribution to the world.

    When you say I draw from terrible sources, I don't know why you only mention these sources and don't look at the rest of the sources I've used? You don't mention the ancient texts, for example. However, I am totally aware of that these sources you mention are disinfo agents. I even say that in the papers, if you really read them. Didn't you see the long paper I wrote about the WingMakers? If you've read the papers, you must have seen that; and I'm sure you would have remembered it, too.

    But I'll tell you this: if someone has been proven to be a disinfo agent, I almost rush to that disinfo agents website, or whatever it is, and start reading, because I know that in his/her disinfo there are also gems of truth. I can be totally sure of that! Otherwise the disinfo wouldn't have worked. You can't attract people with only lies. Unfortunately, so many people are throwing out the baby with the bath water...There is no reason why people shouldn't try to find valid information from disinfo agents such as Hubbard, Morning sky, and WingMakers. The latter is a treasure of great information, but is still disinfo if we look at it carefully.
    Last edited by Wes Penre; 9th March 2015 at 05:58. Reason: grammar
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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote if someone has been proven to be a disinfo agent, I almost rush to that disinfo agents website, or whatever it is, and start reading, because I know that in his/her disinfo there are also gems of truth.
    This is a ridiculous meme that people are spreading in order to justify their addiction to lies. Thanks for trying.
    Last edited by Misty; 9th March 2015 at 09:08.

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Misty (here)
    Quote if someone has been proven to be a disinfo agent, I almost rush to that disinfo agents website, or whatever it is, and start reading, because I know that in his/her disinfo there are also gems of truth.
    This is a ridiculous meme that people are spreading in order to justify their addiction to lies. Thanks for trying.
    If you try to be more precise; do you mean that I am addicted to lies, or are disinfo agents addicted to lies, are those who suggest that there is truth in what disinfo agents say addicted to lies, or is it all of the above?

    Waiting eagerly for a reply.

    Thank you!
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    A warm welcome Wes

    Wow... I would never have thought, when I started this thread, that Mr Wes Penre himself would be joining in the conversation.

    I would like to explain why I admire your work so much.

    Three years ago I started to feel an energy in my heart center/core essence. Through this energy I seemed to be connected to an all knowing part of myself (oversoul/higher self??)
    I found that I was able to ask my heart center questions and in return get answers. The thing was, the knowledge I was receiving could be seen as controversial and none of the answers corresponded with anything I had come across before - that was until I came across your work.

    A great big thank you from me for letting me know I was not completely alone in the world with my views.

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    All of the above.

    Can you name some of your favourite 'confirmed' disinformation agents? Who exactly confirms them, your 'contacts'?
    Last edited by Misty; 9th March 2015 at 11:12. Reason: deflected

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Misty (here)
    All of the above.

    Can you name some of your favourite 'confirmed' disinformation agents? Who exactly confirms them, your 'contacts'?
    Misty, I have a better idea. I took a look at your profile and I can see that you are fairly new here. Now, when you have classified me as a liar, maybe you would like to share a little bit of your view on reality? I have done my best to tell you and others my view on things. I am probably not the only one here who is now very curious about what you subscribe to. No one here knows anything about you--except that you are attacking others for what they have tried to do to contribute. Not only that--you attack their persona as well, although you obviously know nothing about them (yes, I'm talking about me)

    Now it's your turn to contribute. We are all very curious to hear, so don't be shy now...
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    Quote Posted by Clarity (here)
    A warm welcome Wes

    Wow... I would never have thought, when I started this thread, that Mr Wes Penre himself would be joining in the conversation.

    I would like to explain why I admire your work so much.

    Three years ago I started to feel an energy in my heart center/core essence. Through this energy I seemed to be connected to an all knowing part of myself (oversoul/higher self??)
    I found that I was able to ask my heart center questions and in return get answers. The thing was, the knowledge I was receiving could be seen as controversial and none of the answers corresponded with anything I had come across before - that was until I came across your work.

    A great big thank you from me for letting me know I was not completely alone in the world with my views.
    Thank you very much, Clarity. It was an honor for me when Bill and the rest of the crew decided to let me on board :-). There are a lot of knowledgeable people here, whom I can learn from. I love the response I've got from people since I joined!
    "Knowledge is the antidote for fear." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: Wes Penre's levels of learning

    No thanks. 👋
    Last edited by Misty; 9th March 2015 at 10:55. Reason: .....

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