How Do I End A Friendship With A Jehovah Witness?

[citsym]

Just a thought..
Is she a baptized JW? or is she just going to meetings?
If she's baptized it's very unusual for her to seek company outside the congregation... VERY UNUSUAL... If she is just going to meetings and studying the beliefs etc... that's a different story...

Either way, just maybe she is crying for help, or feels something is wrong but doesn't have the energy to break the hold JW's have on her!

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Dawn (here)
And... don't forget to balance the energies between you... because the friendship in 3D is only part of the connection.

I use one of 2 methods:

Ho-opono-o'-pono: This involves closing your eyes and focusing on your friend. As though you are directly in contact with her make the following statements. With every statement the pauses are very important for during the pauses you focus on your heart and allow an energetic flow between you and your friend. The idea is to return all of her energy and thought forms and to allow her to return your own energy back to you. Sometimes the energy which flows will not be 'nice', but that does not matter... what matters is that it is balancing.

1.... I love you (pause) I love you (pause) I love you
2.... Thank you (pause) Thank you (pause) Thank you (pause)
3.... I'm sorry (pause) I'm sorry (pause) I'm sorry (pause)
4.... Please forgive me (pause) Please forgive me (pause) Please forgive me (pause)

The second method is simpler but can be just as powerful. I suggest you try out both methods and see which one you prefer. Focus on your friend in the same way and use the pause the same way in this method as in the first one. Repeat until you are finished

1. What is mine is mine (pause)
2. What is yours is yours (pause)

If you do these exercises EVERY time you find yourself thinking of her, you will find the parting is smooth and easy. The first day you might have to work a lot, but by the 2nd day she will connect less and less to you. As the days progress you will find that you do not think of her at all... that is an indication that the relationship has ended and that your energies are in balance once again.

Thanks, Dawn. Great techniques for clearing out projections that may or may not be mine or another(s). The second one is new to me.

As an empath it’s easy to pick up others’ stuff. Mislabel it. And go into that nutty mind-chatter.

<3

[GloriousPoetry]

Citsym,

I don't know if she is baptized a JW......I do know she has been a JW for 30 something years now and is very devoted to her meetings and door to door preaching. I feel she has found a lot of strength in my friendship since I am a very strong and independent thinker and she has made several comments about her being an open minded JW. However, her JW beliefs are always there...... and I think you might be right about her wanting help but I don't think I want to get involved with being her savior.....I don't want that on my hands......when I was younger I think I would have gone there but now that I"m in my 40s I don't want to invest my energy in someone else's mindset.

[citsym]

Posted by GloriousPoetry (here)
Citsym,

I don't know if she is baptized a JW......I do know she has been a JW for 30 something years now and is very devoted to her meetings and door to door preaching. I feel she has found a lot of strength in my friendship since I am a very strong and independent thinker and she has made several comments about her being an open minded JW. However, her JW beliefs are always there...... and I think you might be right about her wanting help but I don't think I want to get involved with being her savior.....I don't want that on my hands......when I was younger I think I would have gone there but now that I"m in my 40s I don't want to invest my energy in someone else's mindset.

I would say she's baptized... 30 years a JW.. Wow .. I lasted 15 years and it took me 2-3 years to get over the guilt of leaving.
Fair enough if you don't want to get involved... I don't have any step by step way to get out of the friendship, other than sitting down and asking her outright the following:

• Why are you friends with me when you know it's discouraged by the JW teachings?
  You know I don't believe in the JW teachings.
  Are you ready to leave the JW's ?

If she wants help to leave, that should start the process... but be aware if she does want to leave the JW's, she is going to need a lot of help! Perhaps see if there is an ex-JW group in the area that could become involved if need be...

but I don't think I want to get involved with being her savior.....I don't want that on my hands......when I was younger I think I would have gone there but now that I"m in my 40s I don't want to invest my energy in someone else's mindset.

All the best ... hope you can sort it out

[earthdreamer]

The Jehovah's Witness religion is nuts. Their books are crazy! I was friendly with the people who sold us their home and kept in touch. But the man sent me a set of books that confirmed my doubts about the sanity of that religion. His own letters revealed some deeply held conflicts of guilt with himself. The books were all about "the Devil" and the end of the world, just crazy crazy crap. I threw them in the trash (and I don't usually throw away any books, I at least donate or recycle the paper). I can be nice to folks addicted to their insane beliefs but I sure can't be true friends with them.

I wanted to look up a quote from their source material to demonstrate how over-the-top it is and instead I found an interesting looking book about a woman who escaped the cult. Some of the descriptive text seems to show an affinity with "GloriousPoetry"'s thread.

http://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Jeho.../dp/1573929425


Awakening of a Jehovah's Witness: Escape from the Watchtower Society Hardcover – April 1, 2002 by Diane Wilson

"This tale of mind control, the use of fear to manipulate vulnerable people, and final escape from a suffocating cult environment is a revealing exposT of a secretive contemporary sect, as well as a true psychological thriller. Diane Wilson spent twenty-five precious years of her life, first becoming indoctrinated by the dogma of the Watchtower Society, and then struggling to free herself from its pervasive, intimidating clutches. In this probing, brutally honest assessment, Wilson describes how a childhood of psychological abuse and lack of self-confidence rendered her vulnerable to the seductive doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Yet as time went on and the society demanded rigid control over every aspect of her life, even her every thought, Wilson began to rebel. Her gradual awakening, at first unconsciously through physical and psychological ailments, and then consciously as a caring therapist helped her rediscover her true self, is a fascinating story.
What she reveals about the goings-on within the closed Watchtower Society will shock the average person who assumes the polite, well-dressed people who pass out leaflets are much like any other conservative religious group. Wilson contends that membership in the Jehovah's Witnesses requires obedience bordering on psychological enslavement and complete suppression of individuality. Her engrossing memoir will be of great interest to former Witnesses, students of cult phenomena, and anyone who has ever had contact with Jehovah's Witnesses."

This customer review seemed very relevant as well:

"This book is one persons story, not an objective but a subjective account about life in the Jehovah's Witnesses. Books such as M. James Penton's excellent and highly recommended work Apocalypse Delayed are a scholar's account of the Watchtower based on library research. To fully understand a movement (any movement), reading individual life stories such as Diane Wilson's are critical. Having read many accounts such as Ms. Wilson's, it is obvious to me that her story (and those of many others) should be taken very seriously. Only one who has lived as part of the Watchtower Society as a baptized member can fully understand what is it like to be a committed member (or trapped because a spouse is a member, and one knows that all too often leaving means loss of family as happened to Diane). Ms. Wilson's account will give the reader a feel for what it is like to be a Witness (and Witnesses will find themselves saying over and over "that is just how I felt!" or "that is what happened to me!"). A trend exists in academia that concludes one should not say unkind things about other religions. This rule may be fine in mixed company, but it will not really help us to understand this or any other movement. Also, few people wish to apply this rule to some groups such as the Taliban now, although certainly scholarly studies and individual life storied are both necessary to understand both the Taliban and the Watchtower (both have more in common than it first appears). To be a Witness, one usually must be either in or out, or, as they say, in the truth or of the world (Satan's world, that is). Outsiders seem to have a hard time accepting the reality of what it is like being in the Watchtower Society. Read this book (the whole book, and also check the many references) and find out why. Even a veteran Watchtower watcher can learn much from this well documented story. by A Customer on February 23, 2002

[jagman]

I see this thread has just another attack on JWs but you guys go ahead spit your venom.
I LOVE JEHOVAH and his son JESUS

[cloud9]

Hello GP:
I understand your dilemma as I have had JW friends in the past. I was never interested in their religion and I was always afraid they would start talking to me about it and those friendships faded away.
A few years ago a couple of young ladies came to my door and I allowed them to talk and received their magazines so they kept coming back but I was getting tired of all the doom and gloom in their conversations and how everything is a sin and we're going to hell even before this world ends and so on...
One day I asked the younger one what she knew about cosmology and she replayed: about cosmowhat? I said: the study of the universe and its relationship with God. She said she never heard about it and I said a few crazy things and even mentioned ETs..... they looked at me as if I was Satan himself, said good bye and never ever came back. It was just too much for them.

I think you feel guilty for wanting to end your friendship but just keep in mind that you are not obligated in any way, shape or form to keep it going either. I'm pretty sure you will feel better later on.

No te preocupes, los mejores amigos son los que tienen cosas en comun con nosotros, te aseguro que te vas a sentir mejor cuando decidas hacer lo que realmente quieres hacer. No necesitas preguntar mas, tu ya tienes la respuesta en tu corazon y no hay necesidad de sentirse culpable.

[GloriousPoetry]

Jagman,

You are right this thread is an attack on JW just like my JW friend attacks the Catholic church even though she thinks I am Catholic. She is so marinated in her JW doctrine that she believes she has thy truth. The only reason I have stayed friends with her for this long is because I don't practice any religion and I thought that I could meet her on a human level without getting religion involved but I now realize that her faith is her identity and there is no way around it....

I want nothing to do with Jehovah.....

I am a sovereign soul ....when the soul is born all doors are open to adorn what is spirit's highest form.....an essence that receives its gold from wearing being as thy lord creating treasures of uncommon fold....

[MorningFox]

Posted by jagman (here)
I see this thread has just another attack on JWs but you guys go ahead spit your venom.
I LOVE JEHOVAH and his son JESUS

Funny how people with such strict belief systems see anyone who disagrees with them as 'attacking' them.

This thread is not an attack on anything. Please have a word with yourself.

[cruza-1]

I have been in the very same situation, for over five years. I was waiting on a spinal operation and had mobility issues the Jehovah Witnesses befriend me, and I accepted them for who they where. When I had my two spinal operations [last year] they became more insistent about attending their services, which I had no intentions off attending, although I felt obliged to.

1) They are genuinely interested in others welfare, physical & spiritual, in their own way.
2) They are genuinely gentle, sympathetic and caring people.
3) As with all religions, there is a miss guided component, but in their defence, they where taught by 'some one'.
If the shepherd leads the sheep down the wrong road ... who bears responsibility when the sheep eat some one else's paddock. The shepherd or the sheep?

Not wanting to be nasty, callous or abrupt, at an appropriate time I struck up a conversation on the one subject they reject.
1) I informed them (they come in 2, 3 or 4 members) that I accept 'everyone' for who they are [and I do]. A few conversations on my views and why I had these views.
2) A little later, I had a discussion on Homosexuality and how we are all conceived female, until the 8th week. Then depending on the mothers levels of Testosterone or Estrogen as to whether we are born male or female. Therefore; we have to appreciate the fact that, if there is equal quantities of these hormones in the mother, it is distinctly possible that some males should be females & vice versa.

They stopped visiting me. I did not bend the truth, I was not rude or aggressive, they made the conscious decision not to return based on conflict & scientific fact, which caused ... 'Cognitive Dissonance'

I have studied Behavioral Science which incorporated / fringed on DNA, RNA, Genes & Trait Theory and I did case work with homosexuals, male & females and I stand by my word.

[Chris Gilbert]

Having originally been raised as a JW I would say, be friendly yet firm that you aren't interested in being preached too. Share bits of your own views from time to time, but don't try to actively argue with your friend. JWs have a very powerful persecution complex that is fostered by their indoctrination and is quickly brought to the fore whenever anyone disagrees or argues with them. Back when I was still a member, the gears in my head started turning the most when I encountered a mixture of disinterest and sympathy towards my beliefs mixed in with inner peace with the people I talked to, rather than outright opposition. That was a large part of what lead me to realize that "The Truth" (a phrase the JWs often use for their faith) was actually a mound of feces disguised by frosting.

[Chris Gilbert]

Posted by Jake (here)
Start meditating regularly.. Then tell her about it!! JW CANNOT deal with meditation.. I stumbled accross this on accident..

I have a friend (still friends btw,) that lost his goat completely when I mentioned meditation.. Apparantly, the devil sneaks in if you meditate.. lol.. Clearing my mind, relaxing and breathing properly caused him to lose his cool.. We argued over it for about 5 minutes,, he had a blood pressure issue, and will not talk to me about religion any more...

Lol, yeah I remember that back from my young days when I was one of them. I was always deeply inquisitive/introspective, and immediately took to the idea of meditation. Their irrational reactions to the very idea was one of the biggest things that helped key me in to the fraudulent, vile nature of that religion.

[jagman]

Posted by GloriousPoetry (here)
Jagman,

You are right this thread is an attack on JW just like my JW friend attacks the Catholic church even though she thinks I am Catholic. She is so marinated in her JW doctrine that she believes she has thy truth. The only reason I have stayed friends with her for this long is because I don't practice any religion and I thought that I could meet her on a human level without getting religion involved but I now realize that her faith is her identity and there is no way around it....

I should have been more clear on my response to your thread GloriousPoetry.
I did not intend to say your motives for writing this thread was to attack JWs.
you have every right to write your thread and I really didn't think it was an
attack piece at all. It was mainly what followed! So I offer you my sincerest
apologies!
I share a lot of witness beliefs but my mind remains open to all possibilities.
some people become so intrenched in the dogma of their religion they will
simply never do a self truth examination of what they believe. It just takes
them to far out of their comfort zone. Did you Know last year they
found a 3000 year old cave Israel. On the markings of the cave the slave
had carved please Lord "L" save me!

[GloriousPoetry]

Jagman,
Interesting info on the 3000 year old cave in Israel.....could the slave have been referring to a Lord he witnessed as an interdimensional being or an E.T. apparition? I believe all Biblical Scripture was written by men and twisted to fit a specific religious dogma.....there are some good messages in scripture but to adopt the whole male god program is too limiting for me.
I believe organized religion is a man's club.......I've liberated myself from this club a long time ago...

I am a sovereign soul destined to expand from soul's expression in this world and beyond my physical stay here.....no need for an external male god to dictate what my spiritual substance is.......

An invitation to create from a higher place in this world arrived from a spiritual substance that is formed in the divine providence of my soul...an inner light that grows with every moment that knows where my heaven's cords fold between this world and divinity's flow........

What if we are all self-begotten.... created from our own spiritual substance and this world is merely a state we call humanity of which we have all chosen to express at this time as one facet of our soul's evolution?

[Twig]

MOO=my opinion only;

Truth, Acceptance and tolerance is the key. I have peeps from all walks of life and to me thats all they are..Peeps, just like me. Peeps with their own beliefs, their own opinions their own likes and dislikes.
If you enjoy each others company then the rest SO DOES NOT MATTER...

Religious beliefs were designed to divide.

[panopticon]

Posted by jagman (here)
Did you Know last year they found a 3000 year old cave Israel. On the markings of the cave the slave had carved please Lord "L" save me!

G'day Jagman,

I didn't know about that.
I've spent a couple of hours trying to find it but haven't as of yet.
Could you provide a link or a bit more information please (I don't want to go off topic but am interested).

@GP
What is this, primary school?
"I don't want to be friends with the Jehovah's Witness girl anymore."

Then don't be friends!

Say it clearly and concisely. Oh, and be truthful about why.

It ain't bloody rocket science...

From my brief glossing of this thread it sounds like she has good reason to want to believe everything that has happened to her has been for a purpose.

I've known some JW's and periodically one of them calls me to ask why something happened. By way of example. A woman I know, who'd be about 70 now I guess, called me when one of her son's suicide a few years back, before that when her husbands died about a decade earlier. I guess her knowing I'm a non-theist allows a certain freedom in questioning her beliefs (though in a manner that it isn't obvious that's what she's doing).

I think a year or so ago one of them left the Church and joined a more mainstream group but I don't pry as it's not my business.

No, they are not my friends. They are people who I met through someone else.

It's actually quite funny because I was blacklisted by the JW's back in Western Australia (my interpretation of Micah 4:1-5 is just one of the problems JW Elders have with me lol) so they used to get all cloak & dagger when talking to me.

Now I'm in Tasmania they just use the phone...

Anyway, back to the OP.

You are both adults, so explain (to her) why you no longer wish to see her.

Simple.

-- Pan

[jagman]

Quote Posted by jagman (here)
Did you Know last year they found a 3000 year old cave Israel. On the markings of the cave the slave had carved please Lord "L" save me!
G'day Jagman,

I didn't know about that.
I've spent a couple of hours trying to find it but haven't as of yet.
Could you provide a link or a bit more information please (I don't want to go off topic but am interested).



It was on national geographic show or discovery? I will try and find it for you. I was intrigued myself
when I first heard of it.I think It was the "Assenes" But they called him lord God "L"

[panopticon]

Posted by jagman (here)

Posted by panopticon (here)

Posted by jagman (here)
Did you Know last year they found a 3000 year old cave Israel. On the markings of the cave the slave had carved please Lord "L" save me!

G'day Jagman,

I didn't know about that.
I've spent a couple of hours trying to find it but haven't as of yet.
Could you provide a link or a bit more information please (I don't want to go off topic but am interested).

It was on national geographic show or discovery? I will try and find it for you. I was intrigued myself
when I first heard of it.I think It was the "Assenes" But they called him lord God "L"

Thanks Jman that would be really good if you could.

Did you mean "Essenes"?
If so, I don't think they were around in 1000 BCE.

Maybe you're thinking of the "Assyrians"?.
Their empire existed well before that period and long after but I'm not sure.

So yes, it would be greatly appreciated if you can point me in the direction of the documentary because I enjoy researching the archaeology behind discoveries like that.

-- Pan

[Agape]

Posted by panopticon (here)

Posted by jagman (here)

Posted by panopticon (here)

Posted by jagman (here)
Did you Know last year they found a 3000 year old cave Israel. On the markings of the cave the slave had carved please Lord "L" save me!

G'day Jagman,

I didn't know about that.
I've spent a couple of hours trying to find it but haven't as of yet.
Could you provide a link or a bit more information please (I don't want to go off topic but am interested).

It was on national geographic show or discovery? I will try and find it for you. I was intrigued myself
when I first heard of it.I think It was the "Assenes" But they called him lord God "L"

Thanks Jman that would be really good if you could.

Did you mean "Essenes"?
If so, I don't think they were around in 1000 BCE.

Maybe you're thinking of the "Assyrians"?.
Their empire existed well before that period and long after but I'm not sure.

So yes, it would be greatly appreciated if you can point me in the direction of the documentary because I enjoy researching the archaeology behind discoveries like that.

-- Pan

I've seen related documentary some of which ( only ) covers the area of the Middle East ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MfIrHrQg0EY

but , there's a trove of information available now , different historical perspectives .. little fragments of past that sometimes fit together , mostly are overlapping each others historical epoch .
What you may find surprising ( or not ) is that 3000 BC even these areas of Middle East that are now in the centre of 3 major monotheistic religions were in fact , occupied and divided between tribes ( many of whom are named in Bible , as contemporaries or certain events and prophets ) who were so diverse when it came to 'God worship' and other religious matters that you could clearly call their culture 'pantheistic' - in the same manner Hinduism is considered pantheistic religion today ( though , from esoteric perspective and also practical understanding of devotees , each of 33 000 possible manifestations of Divinity are still , a manifestation of One - Divine Consciousness ) ,

and the word 'EL - which ( I think ) is inscribed in Hebrew with Aleph and Lambda and it appears in names like 'El-isha' , 'Eli-jah' , 'Is-ra-El' and so forth ,
where 'EL stands for 'God' ,
it means Exalted/Noble - interestingly the same root as AL' in Allah and 'LAs' in Lama ( where La' means again, 'Noble' and Ma means 'Mother' ) ,

the 'EL' , according to the documentary , as Jag says comes from an older tribe /historical period where El' was both Gods - Elohim ( Light Beings - plural ) and later evolved to single EL' ( the rule of Els , Elohim , the most exalted of Gods ) .

He even seemed to have female counterpart at some point, that's at least what the documentary says .

Now , that's of course not the end of the story ...

Egypt who was an ancient seat of knowing for thousands of years at one period was in a way , largely pantheistic - with varying degrees of religious freedom in each of its periods - its rules attempted to 'unite' large territories and hundreds of neighbouring tribes and people under 'one faith' but that kind of effort was more liberal - where religion is concerned - than most of todays disputes among religious 'monotheists' .
People were 'allowed' to bring their religions ( or God totem ) in and basically , incorporate them to the larger 'metaphysical territory' ,
the same way you'd add a bust to the museum and it would hence become part of its heritage ,

and so also , Egyptian culture ( the knowledgable part of ..) was incredibly rich with concepts , ideas and relations - within - after some time ,

and its of course, historically , where all these people came from, with their alphabets .

I've read somewhere ( not sure with source , it's long ago ) that the letter 'LA' ( or L as you say ) was so sacred that it was pronounced only in special time , in Egyptian temples , considered the 'higher octave' of R , which of course , was sort of common letter and also the letter of God RA - the God of Sun with all its complicated symbology ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra


Despite of what todays history books suggest ( but do not know ) , both at the height and fall of the Egyptian empire its essential knowledge was exported and seeded elsewhere , thus it could be saved .

[sandpainter]

Dear GloriousPoetry,
Thank you for raising this troubling subject. This is a very difficult situation - to see someone you care for - totally entranced by a life-oppressing religion. I know the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society from the inside out. Many years ago some of my very best friends were taken captive by this mind-control organization. It took a lot of pain and many years for them to escape. Not to be mean about it, but I think you should remember that your friend's basic objective in keeping in touch with you, is to recruit you. So beware! She probably turns in the number of hours she spends with you as part of her weekly paperwork on the 'witnessing' work. Seriously. This is what they do. If she ever wants to learn something about her own masters that might eventually help her to break free you could advise her to read "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof Johnson and to hear former JWs Vincent Eastwood,Jordan Maxwell and Santos Bonacci reveal the actual truth about who really runs that terrible organization. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYJHZYa1CRg Once your friend understands that you are trying to get her to quit the cult she may either start to question her prison of beliefs or quit the friendship. Best wishes to you both!