Alcoholism, Love, and Mind-control

[greybeard]

This is for Robins friend.

I know that you read this thread.
My heart goes out to you, I know it is not easy to take the first step to seek help.
I resisted and resisted--that was nearly the death of me, and yes that would have been very welcome at the time.
However one night in the depth of despair I prayed "If there is a God please help me"
Soon after that through a series of coincidences I found myself at an AA meeting.

The standard AA suggestion is that you try it for thirty days and if you don't want to go after that this is entirely up to you.
In AA there are only suggestions---people share what works for them.

No paid professionals and its free, (you can donate if you wish) only those who have gone through extremely difficult times and come out the other side.
The meetings tend to be filled with a bit of laughter though obviously there is the serious side.
Sober people enjoying life in freedom after many years a slave to the illness.

No one says an other is an alcoholic, it is anonymous, only first names are known.
Its up to the individual to decide they have a problem.
No forms to fill in, no questions.
You don't have to say anything, some don't for many meetings ,just sit and take it in. Afterwards there is tea or coffee if you wish.

There will most likely be day time meetings.

Its true that it helps to have a good environment--but many have got sober in difficult circumstances.

Circumstances tend to improve radically once sobriety begins to happen.

Many have gone from the depth of hell to having good jobs, homes of their own etc.
Dare to dream--so to speak.

People of all walks of life and beliefs.
Yes some will be interested in conspiracy theories and be well awake to what happens in the world, some not.

There are several I know to be sober alcoholics on this forum.

The future is in your hands.

Wishing you all the best.

Chris

[Selkie]

In the interest of completeness, I would like to add that some people maintain that AA is a cult

http://www.orange-papers.org/

p.s. to greybeard: I know that you credit AA with pretty much saving your life, and it is not my intent to take that away from you. It is just that this is the real world, and just like anything else, there are bound to be good chapters of AA and bad ones...and that some of them might even be very bad. I am not trying to be a contrarian. It is just that I am of the mind that people ought to have as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action.

[greybeard]

Posted by Silkie (here)
In the interest of completeness, I would like to add that some people maintain that AA is a cult

http://www.orange-papers.org/

p.s. to greybeard: I know that you credit AA with pretty much saving your life, and it is not my intent to take that away from you. It is just that this is the real world, and just like anything else, there are bound to be good chapters of AA and bad ones...and that some of them might even be very bad. I am not trying to be a contrarian. It is just that I am of the mind that people ought to have as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action.

Dear Sllkle
To be very accurate I will credit The God of my understanding/Higher Power for getting me to AA.
But then I did ask for help and what led me to ask I wonder.
And what prevent me from asking much earlier?

As far as cult goes, that's not my experience---I would think a cult requires a leader to set rules and regulations and if you don't adhere you are banished or worse.
The way AA is set up its impossible for anyone to lead it--even the founder who is deceased.
It is a fellowship
I have never heard of bad chapters on the grapevine.
Never heard the word chapter used re AA meetings
There may be meetings that suit one rather than another
Yes explore fully-- the information is freely available on the internet.

Chris

Like this http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/twelve...lve-traditions

or this

Service Material from the General Service Office
THE
TWELVE
TRADITIONS
OF
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
(SHORT FORM)
1.
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon
A.A. unity.
2.
For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority
—
a loving God as
He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but
trusted servants; they do not govern.
3.
The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4.
Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups
or A.A. as a whole.
5.
Each group has but one primary purpose
—
to carry its message to the
alcoholic who still suffers.
6.
An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any
related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and
prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7.
Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside
contributions.
8.
Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9.
A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards
or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10.
Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A.
name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11.
Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we
need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and
films.
12.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us
to place principles before personalities.
Copyright

1952, 19
53, 1981 by
A.A. Grapevine,
Inc. and Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing
(now known as Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.)
All rights reserved.
Rev.
10
/14
SM
F
-
122

[Selkie]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Silkie (here)
In the interest of completeness, I would like to add that some people maintain that AA is a cult

http://www.orange-papers.org/

p.s. to greybeard: I know that you credit AA with pretty much saving your life, and it is not my intent to take that away from you. It is just that this is the real world, and just like anything else, there are bound to be good chapters of AA and bad ones...and that some of them might even be very bad. I am not trying to be a contrarian. It is just that I am of the mind that people ought to have as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action.

Dear Sllkle
To be very accurate I will credit The God of my understanding/Higher Power for getting me to AA.
But then I did ask for help and what led me to ask I wonder.
And what prevent me from asking much earlier?

As far as cult goes, that's not my experience---I would think a cult requires a leader to set rules and regulations and if you don't adhere you are banished or worse.
The way AA is set up its impossible for anyone to lead it--even the founder who is deceased.
It is a fellowship
I have never heard of bad chapters on the grapevine.
Never heard the word chapter used re AA meetings
There may be meetings that suit one rather than another
Yes explore fully-- the information is freely available on the internet.

Chris

Like this http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/twelve...lve-traditions

or this

Service Material from the General Service Office
THE
TWELVE
TRADITIONS
OF
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
(SHORT FORM)
1.
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon
A.A. unity.
2.
For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority
—
a loving God as
He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but
trusted servants; they do not govern.
3.
The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4.
Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups
or A.A. as a whole.
5.
Each group has but one primary purpose
—
to carry its message to the
alcoholic who still suffers.
6.
An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any
related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and
prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7.
Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside
contributions.
8.
Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9.
A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards
or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10.
Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A.
name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11.
Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we
need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and
films.
12.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us
to place principles before personalities.
Copyright

1952, 19
53, 1981 by
A.A. Grapevine,
Inc. and Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing
(now known as Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.)
All rights reserved.
Rev.
10
/14
SM
F
-
122

Posted by greybeard (here)
To be very accurate I will credit The God of my understanding/Higher Power for getting me to AA...

To be sure, greybeard, and I have the utmost respect for that.

Posted by greybeard (here)
...But then I did ask for help and what led me to ask I wonder. And what prevent me from asking much earlier?

Maybe you were enjoying yourself too much before that?**

Posted by greybeard (here)
...I have never heard of bad chapters on the grapevine.
Never heard the word chapter used re AA meetings...

Well, then, perhaps I have increased your awareness of AA?

**I mean in the sense that there was something in it for you, because enjoyment is a very weird, un-straightforward thing.

an addition

Posted by greybeard (here)
...I would think a cult requires a leader to set rules and regulations

Any group can be taken over. AA ideals are there to guard against this, but it can happen, and people must not be blinded by AA ideals if they are facing a cult-like situation.

[greybeard]

Dear Sillkle
The enjoyment ceased many years prior to stopping during which I was hospitalised three times---suicidal wreck.

What kept me going was ego---refusal to admit i couldn’t control the drinking and the effect on me and others who loved me.
I got to AA roughly forty years ago, at that time AA had no been long in Scotland, or anywhere else for that matter and little was known of Alcoholism.

It was not seen as illness then but a down and out lack of control thing.
In other words being an Alki was the lowest of the low and sufferers of this looked down upon, un trusted, social outcasts--unemployable.
Who would want to admit to being an alcoholic or seek help with that stigma attached?
Thankfully things are now very different--- Drs here now suggest that people go to AA if they suspect there is a problem.

Some I know in AA hold positions where they handle responsibility with integrity and skill.
They deserve the jobs they have through their work attitude and ability.

I have to say only a recovering alcoholic can really know what this illness is.
You have to have been there, done it.
That's why AA is so successful with many millions of members world wide-- performing alcoholics tend not to listen to any other than a sober alcoholic.
Im only writing these posts hopefully for the benefit of Robins friend and anyone suffering from Alcoholism.

Best wishes
Chris

Ps no AA group has ever been taken over.

Bottom line is AA has saved millions from a terrible death.

[Selkie]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Ps no AA group has ever been taken over.

I wish I could believe this.

Posted by greybeard (here)
Bottom line is AA has saved millions from a terrible death.

This is indubitably true

[Robin]

update:

My lovely soulmate and I have benefited greatly from reading different points of view and we have come back together to discuss the relationship. We both agreed that we had bad communication and misunderstanding, and we are happy with our new level of understanding. Though she only binge drinks about three times a month, she recognizes and accepts that she is an alcoholic and that she has no control over her drinking. She accepts that she is powerless over alcohol, but her level of spirituality and maturity is definitely deep enough to sincerely want to stop drinking.

What she didn't tell me before was that she tried all sorts of treatment last year, and even tried attending an AA meeting before, much to her dissatisfaction. After realizing that no standard treatments were working for her individual being, she is working on her self-control and spirituality steadfastly. She recognizes how damaging alcohol is to herself and the relationship, which is a big leap in and of itself, and she sincerely does want to stop. We also both agreed that if she slips up again, that I have every right to record her and do whatever it takes to let her know how much her drinking hurt me. If she drinks again, I'm going to walk away until she's sober and confront her about her mistake.

The most important thing is that she understands how damaging her drinking is, and she is sympathetic and empathetic to my feelings. It hurts her to know that she hurts me, and this is the last thing that she wants to do. It is good to know that she does not suffer from total ego-domination like many other alcoholics.

Anyway, thank you for all of your sincere messages! She is doing great, and I'm confident in her ability to overcome this addiction. Love cannot heal the addiction itself, but it sure can help to mend the root causes of wanting to drink in the first place.

Cheers,
Robin

[Poly Hedra]

[QUOTE=Robin Galdek;950350]

Posted by Poly Hedra (here)
My question to you is...what do you do when your boyfriend drinks? Do you and your boyfriend have established boundaries?
.

Yes basically, he loves to DJ so he has a room where he goes to play records and have a few beers. He is basically not allowed to come out to the living room and chat to me while he's drunk and I'm sober, as we all know talking to a drunk person is bloody boring and I lose my patience. He gets annoyed and over-reacts and a lively debate becomes an arguement as a drunk person cant control this. (We like to banter and have great conversation and fun playing with words usually) So basically I refuse to chat to him or entertain any drunken conversation.

[Poly Hedra]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
It is not uncommon for the children of alcoholics to marry or be in relationships with alcoholics. The chaos of ones early family life becomes the norm and when they become adults they search out the same lifestyle (same chaos). Sometimes we get so caught up in the turmoil of our everyday lives that we don't see what we are doing.

Yes but on the bright side its easy to spot the danger signs and when to get mad. Nothing gets past me.

[Joe Sustaire]

Posted by Robin Galdek (here)
update:

My lovely soulmate and I have benefited greatly from reading different points of view and we have come back together to discuss the relationship. We both agreed that we had bad communication and misunderstanding, and we are happy with our new level of understanding. Though she only binge drinks about three times a month, she recognizes and accepts that she is an alcoholic and that she has no control over her drinking. She accepts that she is powerless over alcohol, but her level of spirituality and maturity is definitely deep enough to sincerely want to stop drinking.

What she didn't tell me before was that she tried all sorts of treatment last year, and even tried attending an AA meeting before, much to her dissatisfaction. After realizing that no standard treatments were working for her individual being, she is working on her self-control and spirituality steadfastly. She recognizes how damaging alcohol is to herself and the relationship, which is a big leap in and of itself, and she sincerely does want to stop. We also both agreed that if she slips up again, that I have every right to record her and do whatever it takes to let her know how much her drinking hurt me. If she drinks again, I'm going to walk away until she's sober and confront her about her mistake.

The most important thing is that she understands how damaging her drinking is, and she is sympathetic and empathetic to my feelings. It hurts her to know that she hurts me, and this is the last thing that she wants to do. It is good to know that she does not suffer from total ego-domination like many other alcoholics.

Anyway, thank you for all of your sincere messages! She is doing great, and I'm confident in her ability to overcome this addiction. Love cannot heal the addiction itself, but it sure can help to mend the root causes of wanting to drink in the first place.

Cheers,
Robin

Best of luck to you and your soulmate Robin!

I found my soulmate 44 years ago and it's been an incredible adventure. My thoughts are with you both.