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    Default Men sharing their feelings

    I'm glad that men are sharing their feelings more, which can help us women to understand and love them better
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    Men, sex and worthiness

    I am a little obsessed with Brene Brown right now, truly. My poor friends are inundated with emails, quotes and all conversations pointing back to Brene. Over the last week I have been reading one of her books Daring Greatly and the value I have received in the first 102 pages is immeasurable.

    The biggest eye-opener? Men and Shame. More specifically, men, shame, sex and worthiness. To give you a real sense of her writing I decided to type these pages verbatim from Daring Greatly:

    The young man who had shared the story of his divorce slammed his hand down on his desk and shouted, “It's not about the back fat! You're worried about it. We’re not. We don’t give a ****!” The class fell completely quiet. He took a couple of deep breaths and said “Stop making up all of this stuff about what we are thinking! What we’re really thinking is “Do you love me? Do you care about me? Do you want me? Am I important to you? Am I good enough?’ That’s what we’re thinking. When it comes to sex, it feels like our life is on the line, and you’re worried about that crap?”

    At that point, half of the young men in the room were so emotional that they had their faces buried in their hands. A few girls were in tears, and I couldn’t breathe. The young woman who had brought up body image issues said, “I don’t understand, my last boyfriend was always criticizing my body.” The young vet who had just brought us all to our knees replied, “ That’s because he’s an asshole. It’s not because he’s a guy. Some of us are just guys. Give us a break. Please.”

    A middle-aged man in the group joined in, starting straight down at his desk. “It’s true. When you want to be with us…..in that way….it makes us feel worthy. We stand a little taller. Believe in ourselves more. I don’t know why but it’s true. And I’ve been married since I was eighteen. Its still feels that way with my wife.”

    Never in my life before that moment did I think about men feeling vulnerable about sex. Never did I consider that their self-worth was in any way on the line. I didn’t understand. So I interviewed many more men about the topic of sexuality, shame and worthiness, including mental healthy professionals. In one of my final interviews on the topic, I sat down with a therapist who had spent more than twenty-five years working with men. He explained that from the time boys are eight to ten years old, they learn that initiating sex is their responsibility and sexual rejection soon becomes the hallmark of masculine shame.

    He explained, “Even in my own life, when my wife isn’t interested, I still have to battle feelings of shame. It doesn’t matter if I intellectually understand why she’s not in the mood. I’m vulnerable and it’s very difficult.”

    Not sure how impactful this was for you but this was profound for me and at the same time kind of devastating. I had no idea this is how many men feel. In my experience, the balance of having enough sex to please both partners in a relationship is something many couples struggle with. As I read this passage over and over again, a deep sense of regret filled me as I realized this not only applies to relationships but newly found love interests. In the past, there were some very really experiences in my life where out of fear, I rejected or halted something beautiful and intimate with someone I deeply cared for. Never once did I consider the effect this had on the person I cared about or how deeply it could hurt someone (surprising I know). I was so caught up in my own storm of fear, insecurities and just shear desire to prevent my guarded heart from being crushed that I shoved, ran, and rejected the very thing I wanted. I felt a deep sense of sadness this week with this realization. If I had known this earlier I'd like to think I would have chosen differently. However, the beauty of awareness is that moving forward we can choose a different choice or response. And that is beautiful.
    http://mygrandfathersbread.com/2/pos...orthiness.html

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Great article, Natalie. Good communication is an art and I feel is the foundation of all good relationships between people. I see the union of a man and woman as something very sacred and something that transcends physical and sexual attraction. I see it as a way to better learn how the separation of electro-magnetism into two genders allows the human experience to be one fraught with constant avenues of learning and appreciation of the beauties of the universe.

    The YANG masculine elements of Fire (passion) and Air (logic) intertwined with the YIN feminine elements of Water (emotion) and Earth (sensation) is a beautiful thing when two partners are conscious of the sacred bonds they both share with one another. Both partners need to realize that each can learn from one another when not being stuck in their own egos.

    One of the biggest mistakes women make is assuming that men know how a woman is feeling or what she is thinking. Because women are so intuitive and often socialize with other women, they become used to the idea of being understood just from others feeling their energy. Men are not as intuitive as women, generally, so it is important for a woman to communicate to her man what she is feeling and thinking. Men in return need to listen to their woman and validate and respect her feelings. Men generally love to talk about themselves and their accomplishments, and men feel respected when their woman shows interest in their achievements and allows them to feel needed.

    I find gender dynamics to be fascinating!
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
    ~Henry David Thoreau

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    I really don't categorise men and women. Each person operate at a different level of consciousness and social conditioning. I look at what's behind the social conditioning and instincts. I really don't appreciate it when my mother tells my son not to do something because "that's what boys don't do". When I was in my 20's, I used to suck all emotions and convert them to something which is a mixture of anger, bravery and honesty. I was in an abusive relationship some 8 years ago. My GF used me whenever she needed a shoulder to cry on or someone to talk to. We spent hours on the phone everyday. I helped her get into Uni and settle down. She was that typical girl who'd do fashion shows and be the most beautiful of the Uni. After some years, she told me that it's better we just be friends. Instead of breaking down, I felt invincible. I've gone through phases of hatred and I hated one part of me which was manipulated. Fro that time, many things change. I looked at all my behaviors to realise that they are part of social conditioning or the ego. There's a divine nature inside each of us which is worth exploring.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    It is true that many women are insecure about their bodies, and this heavily has to do with both media portrayal of the ideal woman and men having skewed and flawed perceptions of what makes a woman beautiful and appealing. But this is completely one-sided thinking, because men also experience insecurities in a different way for the exact same reasons.

    Women are generally more sexually insecure with emotional fortitude, while men are generally more emotionally insecure with more sexual fortitude. Women have been conditioned to feel certain ways about their bodies, while men generally do not care about the condition of their own bodies and how people see them. But what needs to be understood is that men and women are very different, and should be treated as such.

    Men are extremely insecure about their emotions, comparable to how women feel about their bodies. Men are conditioned by Mother Culture to be seen as confident protectors to their partners, and those men who make themselves emotionally vulnerable are often dismissed by women and criticized by other men. It is a difficult thing for men to be able to open themselves up emotionally, as much as they may want to. They fear that their woman may reject them for their emotional insecurities, past memories, vulnerability, fears, anxieties, etc. They also fear that other men will emasculate them and shun them away from social circles. Ironically, women love it when men open themselves up emotionally, and men love it when women open themselves up sexually. It is societal pressure that causes both genders to hesitate in opening themselves up out of insecurities created by social stigmas.

    Some men do find the courage to open themselves up emotionally. They surrender themselves fully, exposing themselves emotionally naked, and make themselves vulnerable at the risk of being put down. They share all of their most intimate emotions and feelings, their past traumas, their insecurities, their fears, their anxieties, and their most embarrassing moments in their lives. True love means continuing to do so because we do not want to withhold anything from the one we love. We know that you love us and will accept us for who we are no matter what and appreciate what we have to offer.

    This is a very difficult thing for a man to do. Just like many women have been put down physically by men in the past, many men have been put down by women in the past for opening themselves up emotionally. It is traumatizing for men to be put down emotionally, especially when all they want is Love. Some women may be traumatized for being put down physically, but I assure you that some men are very traumatized for their own past involvement in sharing emotions with women and making themselves vulnerable. Many men are also worried that women will criticize them, put them down, hurt them, and leave them. But they usually don't. It is difficult for women to understand just how insecure men feel about their emotions, just as it is difficult for men to understand just how much women are insecure about their bodies. Gender differences need to be understood and appreciated more in society.

    When Unconditional Love does exist and when men reveal themselves fully emotionally and are accepted for their insecurities and limitations, they get a large boost in confidence, which produces more incentive to open up emotionally even more. This confidence spreads to all other facets of their lives, too.
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
    ~Henry David Thoreau

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    I asked my boyfriend about these issues after reading your thread and he confirmed pretty much everything posted so far. I had no idea...oops. Thanks for posting, an eye opener for me.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by Natalia (here)
    I'm glad that men are sharing their feelings more, which can help us women to understand and love them better
    Me, too

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    When men share their feelings, it makes me feel safe.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by Natalia (here)
    I'm glad that men are sharing their feelings more, which can help us women to understand and love them better
    Or they can turn the tables and use it against us whereby you have the same male-female schism only in reverse.

    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by Robin Galdek (here)
    It is true that many women are insecure about their bodies, and this heavily has to do with both media portrayal of the ideal woman and men having skewed and flawed perceptions of what makes a woman beautiful and appealing. But this is completely one-sided thinking, because men also experience insecurities in a different way for the exact same reasons.

    Women are generally more sexually insecure with emotional fortitude, while men are generally more emotionally insecure with more sexual fortitude. Women have been conditioned to feel certain ways about their bodies, while men generally do not care about the condition of their own bodies and how people see them. But what needs to be understood is that men and women are very different, and should be treated as such.

    Men are extremely insecure about their emotions, comparable to how women feel about their bodies. Men are conditioned by Mother Culture to be seen as confident protectors to their partners, and those men who make themselves emotionally vulnerable are often dismissed by women and criticized by other men. It is a difficult thing for men to be able to open themselves up emotionally, as much as they may want to. They fear that their woman may reject them for their emotional insecurities, past memories, vulnerability, fears, anxieties, etc. They also fear that other men will emasculate them and shun them away from social circles. Ironically, women love it when men open themselves up emotionally, and men love it when women open themselves up sexually. It is societal pressure that causes both genders to hesitate in opening themselves up out of insecurities created by social stigmas.

    Some men do find the courage to open themselves up emotionally. They surrender themselves fully, exposing themselves emotionally naked, and make themselves vulnerable at the risk of being put down. They share all of their most intimate emotions and feelings, their past traumas, their insecurities, their fears, their anxieties, and their most embarrassing moments in their lives. True love means continuing to do so because we do not want to withhold anything from the one we love. We know that you love us and will accept us for who we are no matter what and appreciate what we have to offer.

    This is a very difficult thing for a man to do. Just like many women have been put down physically by men in the past, many men have been put down by women in the past for opening themselves up emotionally. It is traumatizing for men to be put down emotionally, especially when all they want is Love. Some women may be traumatized for being put down physically, but I assure you that some men are very traumatized for their own past involvement in sharing emotions with women and making themselves vulnerable. Many men are also worried that women will criticize them, put them down, hurt them, and leave them. But they usually don't. It is difficult for women to understand just how insecure men feel about their emotions, just as it is difficult for men to understand just how much women are insecure about their bodies. Gender differences need to be understood and appreciated more in society.

    When Unconditional Love does exist and when men reveal themselves fully emotionally and are accepted for their insecurities and limitations, they get a large boost in confidence, which produces more incentive to open up emotionally even more. This confidence spreads to all other facets of their lives, too.
    Really good, well written post, Robin, thank you for sharing your insights.

    it's true that in general women are more intuitive and empathic than men, at least in some ways...(maybe not all ways...like maybe men are more empathic about other men's sexuality, than women are, for example)...

    Even "highly intuitive and empathic women" do not understand men as much as they understand women (especially so in certain ways, like in how we communicate), and listening can be part of that intuition, on what is needed...women's (and men's) intuition and understanding can at times be blocked by their own fears, insecurities, pain, etc...

    I find that for me personally, being aware of my own issues (that they are mine and not theirs) and of what is more important (love), can help me to not behave negatively with blame, when Insecurities are triggered. I have, of course, made mistakes with this (like we all have) and it's something that I/we can learn from.
    Last edited by Natalia; 6th April 2015 at 20:19.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by Orph (here)
    Quote Posted by Natalia (here)
    I'm glad that men are sharing their feelings more, which can help us women to understand and love them better
    Or they can turn the tables and use it against us whereby you have the same male-female schism only in reverse.

    Of course, men can be taken advantage of and abused by women, and women can be taken advantage of and abused by men, just like men can be treated kindly by women, and women can be treated kindly by men.

    And there still is more stigma about men sharing their feelings (especially so in certain ways) than there is for women.

    Emotional connection, and open honesty, are more important to some couples, than to others...and maybe some men's personalities and natures (and women's) are not so suitable for that, it might not be one of their strengths.

    It seems that we feel safe enough, and have enough trust, most of the time, with a right person for us, or is it not as simple as that?
    Last edited by Natalia; 6th April 2015 at 20:24.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by Natalia (here)

    ...... or is it not as simple as that?
    Emotional interactions between two people are always volatile. The fireworks may be good, ............ or the fireworks may be bad.
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Wow, love the authenticity of all the posters insights, experience and learning......

    Great Thread Natalie

    I have always believed, inside we are the same. Feelings/Emotions are the one true language we all have, all around the world and it is sad but often we don't share or communicate them to others, due to the vulnerability it causes one to feel.

    This is imho, is one of the main reasons we truly need to know ourselves and to learn to take care of our emotional being. Then honesty and openness with communication can be facilitated in healthy and productive ways, trusting myself, knowing that being vulnerable is risky but if hurt or taken advantage of, I can nurture and heal myself and make appropriate decisions on how to respond and what action to take as a result.

    We all operate on thinking, feeling and doing realms, while in the human mode, no matter the gender ...................they are all interconnected and not separate from each other........they work in a natural symbiotic way. We have been conditioned for the most part to deny, override, suppress or react/versus respond to our emotions and to not feel the flow or nudging of them or understand and deal with them in the same way we do our thinking and physical modes. This is what imho, has kept humankind dumb down and in fear mode more than anything else. We for the most part never truly evolve when we become emotionally stunted and remain childlike inside, looking for some type of authority to lead the way instead of ourselves.

    So great to see the communication happening here from the realm of vulnerability where the abundance of Inner Love awaits you always.
    Last edited by sandy; 6th April 2015 at 21:20.
    Love and Light Always/Sandy

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    I don't want to pop any ones bubbles here but I use to do couples therapy (in my last life) and when a women would complain to her husband "you don't share your feeling with me" and usually brace myself because when the hubby actually starts to share his feeling the female 9 times out of ten is not going to like it. If he actually tells her how he feels about her or his perspective of their personal dynamics and it actually scares her. I have seen this way too many times to say. She picked this guy because he didn't share his feeling and that was safe for her. So when he starts to lets some of his fear/vulnerabilities out it it's changes the dynamics of the relationship and usually (but not always) it freaks her out. So then we have to talk about her reaction to his getting in touch with his feelings. Why she is having the reaction she is having and trust me the women is just as surprised at her reaction as her husband is. But I think sometimes the guy's Know it is not safe to share his feeling because the other side of the coin is he will fear he is being seen as needy or weak. She may fear this herself. Vulnerability, openness and being transparent is taboo in this society. Even more so for men. He just knows if he let's his guard down it will not be safe for him because his wife will not be able to handle it. So it is all fine and good to say people like it when a man shares his feeling but if you picked a guy who doesn't it's for a reason. These things are never as easy as some people would like it to be. That's life.
    Last edited by 3(C)+me; 7th April 2015 at 00:52.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    One of the reasons I chose the man I married was because I could see he was a sensitive being. I dreaded marrying someone who was insensitive. However, it is true that I was surprised by just how sensitive he was. I think he is probably more sensitive than I am. All of our children are also very sensitive, including my son. I wonder if it is a trait that is passed on genetically? His father was also a very sensitive person and I didn't realize until his father's death how wonderful a trait that was. All his life his father had been picked on by bullies, including my husband's mother who was a very mistrustful person. She called my father in law an oaf for most of their married lives. He became the target for her anger and my husband has memories of being a toddler and wanting to shield his father from his mother's verbal and psychological and sometimes physical abuse. It was very sad at the funeral to finally realize that his own adult children had believed some of the lies his mother had told about this wonderful man. I would say that part of the reason my father in law's sensitivity was not appreciated was social conditioning and then false expectation that emotionally a man "should" be the stronger person, there to emotionally support the females when they fall apart. I am so glad that the world is finding a better balance and allowing men to develop their feminine side and encouraging the women to develop their masculine side.

    I find it interesting that in some cultures women are viewed as the stronger gender. In matriarchal cultures there is not the same suppression of the feminine or the same expectations that western societies have taught.

    Sensitive persons make excellent leaders.

    As far as sexuality have had the honor to work with several men who were sexually abused as children and they all without fail have told me that shame is a huge factor and that they believe that in our present society the shame of having been a victim is what stops them from disclosing. It is very beautiful to see them gradually opening up emotionally and letting go of the fear and guilt and shame. The quotes from Brene Brown above are wonderful, especially

    "“It’s true. When you want to be with us…..in that way….it makes us feel worthy. We stand a little taller. Believe in ourselves more. I don’t know why but it’s true. And I’ve been married since I was eighteen. Its still feels that way with my wife.”

    My husband has often told me that he cannot imagine have good sex without the affection part of it. He cannot understand how anyone, men or women could even want to have sex in a violent or abusive way.

    I guess in the end the quality of respect needs to be there for both men and women towards the other . . . . to provide a safeguard against taking advantage of other's vulnerabilities.
    Last edited by Aspen; 7th April 2015 at 00:56.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    I loved Brene Brown's video on vulnerability. Natalie, this thread inspired me to watch a follow up one on shame. She is so funny! She was horrified when her vulnerablity video went viral.
    Last edited by Aspen; 7th April 2015 at 01:19.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by cccme (here)
    I don't want to pop any ones bubbles here but I use to do couples therapy (in my last life) and when a women would complain to her husband "you don't share your feeling with me" and usually brace myself because when the hubby actually starts to share his feeling the female 9 times out of ten is not going to like it. If he actually tells her how he feels about her or his perspective of their personal dynamics and it actually scares her. I have seen this way too many times to say. She picked this guy because he didn't share his feeling and that was safe for her. So when he starts to lets some of his fear/vulnerabilities out it it's changes the dynamics of the relationship and usually (but not always) it freaks her out. So then we have to talk about her reaction to his getting in touch with his feelings. Why she is having the reaction she is having and trust me the women is just as surprised at her reaction as her husband is. But I think sometimes the guy's Know it is not safe to share his feeling because the other side of the coin is he will fear he is being seen as needy or weak. She may fear this herself. Vulnerability, openness and being transparent is taboo in this society. Even more so for men. He just knows if he let's his guard down it will not be safe for him because his wife will not be able to handle it. So it is all fine and good to say people like it when a man shares his feeling but if you picked a guy who doesn't it's for a reason. These things are never as easy as some people would like it to be. That's life.
    I see what you are saying, and while I do see it as a positive thing that men in general are sharing their feelings more, even if it's just or mainly to therapists and researchers, who then write about it (which educates people), I do not think that men should be exactly like women and that women be exactly like men - I would not want to date a man who was as feminine as me! Because it's just not a good match, and opposites can attract, and compliment each other.

    So yes, like you say, it is sometimes instinct for a man not to share his feelings, especially so in certain ways and with certain people (or in public). That is sometimes wise. And although it is not the same for women, they too can at times be too open and/or share their feelings with the wrong (for them) people. 

    Some men don't want to have a girlfriend who is a highly sensitive and feeling person, and will be put off by their open honesty and other aspects of their nature. And it is never wise for a woman to always be open about her feelings...

    The "overly macho/aggressive man" is not for me, just like the "overly sensitive/fragile man" is not for me...maybe not the best words to use...but I hope that the drift is got...

    And if women value a deep emotional connection with their partner, then they will want him too share his feelings (and to accept hers) enough for that, but not too much...
    Last edited by Natalia; 7th April 2015 at 03:18.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Quote Posted by Aspen (here)
    I loved Brene Brown's video on vulnerability. Natalie, this thread inspired me to watch a follow up one on shame. She is so funny! She was horrified when her vulnerablity video went viral.
    Hi Aspen, yes I love her talks, too! hehe

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    United States Avalon Member raregem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Awhile back I saw a documentary from a UT professor regarding pornography and the effects on men.
    Bottom line was porn creates a false sense of human sexuality never to be satisfied since porn isn't the reality of human sexuality at it's full measure. He also stated that porn actually rewires the brain.

    I wonder if the minimizing of shared feelings from men has rewired their brains and would have to be rewired from the rewire?

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    A truly wonderful post Robin. Thank you for sharing. I am enjoying this thread, thank you Natalia for creating it.

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    Default Re: Men sharing their feelings

    Pornography I think is a real problem for both sexes. A shaman told me a long time ago that the second chakra, sexual chakra, is the easiest to attach to. It is very powerful but that non-physicals will attach there and start running the individual thru sex and on one of the big doors is pornography. Then the person hides all this activity which just creates more problems. Yeah, its a big problem. John Lash comes to mind.

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