Spirituality, life after physical death, evidence, or .............

[East Sun]

I've been thinking, I know it's a dangerous endeavor, I've been warned about it many times, but still I'll take my chances. Lately, when going to sleep I think about what I consist of, like body, mind/consciousness and I've been told all my life, spirit or soul.

I'm curious as to what others believe, with no evidence of actual soul or spirit--are they the same thing or do they even exist? Were we just told about soul or spirit by some religion? Religions condition us into believing what they were told. How do they know. Don't tell me about faith. I have faith in things that can be proven.

I do believe in reincarnation because there is evidence that it exists. Dr. Ian Stephenson did a lot of research over a long period of time in parts of the world where clear evidence could be found. That suggests that there is definitively something beyond this existence, but what?

Because we have been deceived by so-called religious leaders it's understandable that we don't believe them.

I studied Tibetan Buddhism and put more trust in their beliefs, a lot more than the Christianity I grew up with.
I can see now that the religious leaders were brainwashed into following along by what they had been taught and lording it over their underlings.
(In the same way a lot of Doctors were told a lot of stuff that killed patients and it goes on today in the same old way.)

We need to find a way to change the status quo so that religion, medicine and politics are revealed for what they are.

Back to topic--So, where's the evidence for soul or spirit? I'm not saying that they don't exist. Maybe yes maybe no.

There is evidence for OBE (out of body experiences) and NDE as told by survivors, but that does not prove soul or spirit.

KISS (keep it simple stupid)

Replies invited.

[amor]

I think that we are INSIDE of the mind of GOD or THE CREATOR of the Universe and that we are in an interactive mechanism. When we die, we move from one piece of software to another and there are many many pieces of software. The knowledge we attained in our software trip goes back to the godhead and is processed into his knowledge. Hopefully, as we increase in knowledge and experience, we rise to higher levels of the godhead and/or are sent back to relearn lessons with better outcomes; therefore, our present existence is only a part of our existence.

[East Sun]

Terrible disaster in Napal...Monks pray for the deceased. Christians pray for deceased.. They are dead--what can living people do for the deceased?

We can help the living.

[JoePiscapo]

i believe that each of us has a spirit. after we die i think we either come back here into this life with a new identity, or we move on to the next dimension.
some spirits though when they pass on dont understand that they have passed on. thats when they come back and try to control another body. multiple personality.
we need to learn as much as we can from the experiences we go through. so that it will make you more comfortable for yourself when you pass on.

[Deega]

Posted by amor (here)
I think that we are INSIDE of the mind of GOD or THE CREATOR of the Universe and that we are in an interactive mechanism. When we die, we move from one piece of software to another and there are many many pieces of software. The knowledge we attained in our software trip goes back to the godhead and is processed into his knowledge. Hopefully, as we increase in knowledge and experience, we rise to higher levels of the godhead and/or are sent back to relearn lessons with better outcomes; therefore, our present existence is only a part of our existence.

Hey Amor, first time I read, hear this, "we are INSIDE of the Mind of GOD", another interesting perspective!, but may you share where you get this information from?, deduction, ancient text, other...

[Sith73]

In the days to come I will post my personal experiences for the group and to people outside of this forum. People need to understand to not fear death and at the same time need to cherish life and all it offers to each of us. Much love to all!

[Gemma13]

This question re proof of a soul/spirit that lives after the body dies is the most fundamental exploration/study for me personally. I have no doubt that proof can be established enmasse. In my reasoning how can it not if we can understand and experience imaginative creativity to be limitless . . . would it therefore only be a matter of "time"?

Then there is the individualist proof that many, many people experience that proves to them that they are "something else" besides the mind, body, and emotions. Religion and philosophy talk to this "something else" but as we are aware it sits on the shelf of faith and is sadly hijacked for ulterior motives of judgment, separation, and control enmasse.

I personally believe the marriage of science and religion will ultimately bring this proof to light. The challenge though is how do you develop a lens to view the soul with instruments within time and space, when the soul resides inside and outside of the spheres of time and space? Fortunately there are great headways being made toward this, for us mainstream bods anyway, in numerous scientific establishments; for example, tools of measurement for the heart's energetic, purpose, power, portal, etc, as opposed to the brain and its fundamental mechanism within time and space.

In my opinion, the quandary we currently face from an individual perspective is that a "sustainable" unbreakable trust within our individual selves of our connection to soul needs to be established . . . that's the hard part for it takes enormous determination and persistence of will, amongst the numerous distractions pertaining to physical survival, to explore our minds, bodies, emotions and our infinity . . . our connection to "something else".

The fact that we "question" its possibility/validity could also be seen to be a heartening directive in itself.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Deega (here)

Posted by amor (here)
I think that we are INSIDE of the mind of GOD or THE CREATOR of the Universe and that we are in an interactive mechanism. When we die, we move from one piece of software to another and there are many many pieces of software. The knowledge we attained in our software trip goes back to the godhead and is processed into his knowledge. Hopefully, as we increase in knowledge and experience, we rise to higher levels of the godhead and/or are sent back to relearn lessons with better outcomes; therefore, our present existence is only a part of our existence.

Hey Amor, first time I read, hear this, "we are INSIDE of the Mind of GOD", another interesting perspective!, but may you share where you get this information from?, deduction, ancient text, other...

[amor]

When I was 21 I had the experience of meeting God, posted here which is now archived. As age and many experiences have occurred, I have been deep in thought. God has no desire to hide himself from us; it is we who are so busy experiencing and making decisions that the ego pushes him aside. I came to my own thoughts but stumbled upon those of several ancient and wise men and realized that we started from the same premise, that of the ONE and author of ALL, in whom we live and have our being, the Alpha and Omega. Then the concept of the interactive computer seemed to fit perfectly to explain the experiences of others and those of myself. I also paid close attention to the sayings of Jesus and found the deeper, hidden meanings, confirming my suspicions about the structure of mind, including the concept of The Word (a thought form) producing what we know and experience as our world, just as we type out a computer program. Then there is the concept of our thoughts bringing things into being, the good to the good heart and the bad to those who have not cottoned onto the idea that it is we who are bringing about our experiences, singly and collectively. We must believe that we CAN and it will come to pass. However, if we are negative and regard the appearance of the way things appear to be happening and most probably will happen, then we are bending to the negative wishes created by others who are ignorant of the power to bring forth from the Universe Computer, GOD. The physical world we think exists based upon our outworking of physics, I believe is one we are seeing through the eyes of our own limited collective creation. I continue to explore. However, for what ever reason, I have been blessed to experience the Godhead, the Holy Spirit and the Christ being in ways which defy naysayers. Continue to explore.

[Craig]

I would need to say that I would like to believe in reincarnation and life after death, as I can't honestly to myself say that I do believe in it. I have tried to read as much as I can about the esoteric subjects (remembering is the hard part) I have had nothing happen to me that could be considered out of the ordinary. I have not witnessed anything physically that can be considered unusual. I don't know inside if I do want something even a simple UFO sighting as when I try to think about things like that I can set off some deep fear inside. I do get the feeling that if before we are born-reincarnated that we are forced through the veil of forgetfulness that I must have dropped something and bent over to pick it up and copped any extra few doses.

Sometimes the thought of dying scares the crap out of me, other times usually after reading about catastrophic events in the news or (JimStones website) I almost welcome it!

[East Sun]

Craig, I really appreciate your honesty and would like to recommend a book by Dr. Ian Stephenson on reincarnation.
The title is "Children who remember previous lives." I don't know why it's so expensive on Amazon now. When I read it many years ago it was not. But he wrote other books on the subject available on Amazon.
Well worth reading.

[greybeard]

I would suggests that if you want to know about soul a visit to Tim's thread might be helpful.
Aside from that the I that exists and is unchanging is the soul (everything else comes and goes including the body)
You know you exist without confirmation from anything.
Its that simple


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904


Chris

Ps The enlightened, from direct experience, say the "I" is eternal and exists before the birth of the body and after the demise of the body.

[East Sun]

Chris. I just lost a half hours worth of what I thought was profound thought that I most likely can never retrieve. It just vanished off the screen.


I'll try again later.

[East Sun]

b

Posted by greybeard (here)
I would suggests that if you want to know about soul a visit to Tim's thread might be helpful.
Aside from that the I that exists and is unchanging is the soul (everything else comes and goes including the body)
You know you exist without confirmation from anything.
Its that simple

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904


Chris

Ps The enlightened, from direct experience, say the "I" is eternal and exists before the birth of the body and after the demise of the body.

It happened again, now I'm mad as a hornet. "If you can keep your head when ...."

Yes, I know I exist without confirmation from anything. That's a given.
I said in a previous post that I believe in reincarnation because of evidence shown by Dr. Ian Stevenson. and because of The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
Those things can be verified but spirit and soul can not be IMO.

[Craig]

Posted by East Sun (here)
Craig, I really appreciate your honesty and would like to recommend a book by Dr. Ian Stephenson on reincarnation.
The title is "Children who remember previous lives." I don't know why it's so expensive on Amazon now. When I read it many years ago it was not. But he wrote other books on the subject available on Amazon.
Well worth reading.

Thanks East Sun, I shall try and find it and have a read. thanks for the recommendation.

[greybeard]

Posted by East Sun (here)
b

Posted by greybeard (here)
I would suggests that if you want to know about soul a visit to Tim's thread might be helpful.
Aside from that the I that exists and is unchanging is the soul (everything else comes and goes including the body)
You know you exist without confirmation from anything.
Its that simple

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904


Chris

Ps The enlightened, from direct experience, say the "I" is eternal and exists before the birth of the body and after the demise of the body.

It happened again, now I'm mad as a hornet. "If you can keep your head when ...."

Yes, I know I exist without confirmation from anything. That's a given.
I said in a previous post that I believe in reincarnation because of evidence shown by Dr. Ian Stevenson. and because of The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
Those things can be verified but spirit and soul can not be IMO.

Sorry you lost your post.
You are fortunate that you are aware that you exist to the degree its a given---most are really not that aware.
Depends what you mean by verification East Sun.
What exactly is reincarnating?
There in lies the answer to your questions
It also depends on what you think spirit or soul may or may not be.

I can only speak for myself.
I believe only God--One without second--exists and I am That.
One Soul.
The only "evidence" I have is that I have been reading and also listening to enlightened "beings for about thirty years daily.
They all say more or less the same as is on Tim's thread.
There is only awareness--- there are lots of videos on this thread---

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post956520

Mooji explains well from an experiential point of view as does Adyashanti, also on the thread a page or so back (two short videos) .
You are literally the Unborn---life itself--formless becoming form temporally to experience through duality.
It has taken me years to come to this understanding but the weigh of anecdotal evidence is overwhelming.
Thousands of years of mystics saying the same thing--ie "I am the totality all of it"

Best wishes
Chris

[East Sun]

"Depends what you mean by verification East Sun.
What exactly is reincarnating?
There in lies the answer to your questions
It also depends on what you think spirit or soul may or may not be.''

Verification would be...proof. I believe that reincarnation has been proven to those who sought proof.
What is reincarnation? To be born in a new body with remembrances from a previous life.
Sorry but, I don't see it as an answer as to the question of whether soul or spirit exist.
Maybe yes, maybe no but no proof. imo

"There is only awareness" you quote, but awareness of things by observing them in one form or another. I can not be aware of soul or spirit.

[greybeard]

Posted by East Sun (here)
"Depends what you mean by verification East Sun.
What exactly is reincarnating?
There in lies the answer to your questions
It also depends on what you think spirit or soul may or may not be.''

Verification would be...proof. I believe that reincarnation has been proven to those who sought proof.
What is reincarnation? To be born in a new body with remembrances from a previous life.
Sorry but, I don't see it as an answer as to the question of whether soul or spirit exist.
Maybe yes, maybe no but no proof. imo

"There is only awareness" you quote, but awareness of things by observing them in one form or another. I can not be aware of soul or spirit.

The awareness is constant unchanged by events---it is Self aware.
That being soul you are aware of Self.

You have to investigate to reveal the Truth of Soul.
Hence "Self enquiry" on the last link I sent.
The sun is always shining night or day but if clouds prevent you seeing it then the clouds have to be removed.

Im not out to convince you of anything East Sun---just relating what I found to be true.
By the way that thread gets two thousands visitors a week so some are awakening to what spirituality and enlightenment is,
You may find your answer there.
Best wishes
Chris

[greybeard]

This is a meditation but there is the essence of the answer you look for regarding spirit/soul.
The spirit reincarnates over and over till enlightenment happens --then its job done, no more earthy incarnations.
Mooji is enlightened.
Hope this helps.
Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9W1NxOIvMDk

[Rich]

Posted by East Sun (here)
I'm curious as to what others believe, with no evidence of actual soul or spirit--are they the same thing or do they even exist?

East Sun,
I think if something is real and exists it doesn't need to be believed and it doesn't need a thought to exist, if it's real it can stand on it own.