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Thread: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Planet earth is like a soup being prepared.
    First the various ingredients are placed in the pot. Then heat is applied. Then the soup gets stirred, so that everything can blend.
    If despite cheap travel people don't want to visit exotic far-away places and cultures for whatever reason, those places and cultures will be brought to them.
    Without the slave trade several centuries ago there would be no such a person today, as an African American.

    What makes today's situation harder is that a) it would be politically incorrect to put immigrants to work, and that b) the government is "dumping" them on the population, without proper back-up programs.

    So the only answer is that local communities rise up, at least those who are willing and can see this reality for what it is, and form centers in their towns, and invite these traumatized immigrants and start socializing, doing pot luck meals, listening to each others stories....

    Is this so hard to figure out? Think globally, act locally.

    I was shocked last year at hearing Red Ice and Hendrik and JLL spouting their racist obscenities instead of putting their heads together to come up with friendly solutions.
    A gentleman posted this on Face Book. It is a constructive, balanced look at immigration in Sweden, from a Swede.

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...27138290783165

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    So the only answer is that local communities rise up, at least those who are willing and can see this reality for what it is, and form centers in their towns, and invite these traumatized immigrants and start socializing, doing pot luck meals, listening to each others stories....
    Do you have any experience of doing this ?

    Real life isn't some kind of trashy holywood movie with a "bubbly" ending. For a start, many immigrant communities would probably feel totally patronised if you start offering them "pot luck meals" and mutual story telling sessions. It's very difficult to encourage them to even participate in regular community activities like school choirs or kids events because contrary to much of the sentiment expressed in this thread, they are not migrating for reasons of spiritual growth or 'mutual learning'.

    Clearly there is always the odd exception, but most are simply surviving and are motivated by pure economics. It takes about 3 generations for any fundamental cultural integration to take root.

    Also, I'd like to know what you find "racist" about Henrik's comments. I have never heard him utter a racist word, on the contrary I've found him to be one of the most embracing of all bloger / commentators I've even listened to. He is a defender of universal cultural diversity and the preservation of peoples. The fact that he includes his own in that mix doesn't make him racist in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    So the only answer is that local communities rise up, at least those who are willing and can see this reality for what it is, and form centers in their towns, and invite these traumatized immigrants and start socializing, doing pot luck meals, listening to each others stories....
    Do you have any experience of doing this ?

    Real life isn't some kind of trashy holywood movie with a "bubbly" ending. For a start, many immigrant communities would probably feel totally patronised if you start offering them "pot luck meals" and mutual story telling sessions. It's very difficult to encourage them to even participate in regular community activities like school choirs or kids events because contrary to much of the sentiment expressed in this thread, they are not migrating for reasons of spiritual growth or 'mutual learning'.

    Clearly there is always the odd exception, but most are simply surviving and are motivated by pure economics. It takes about 3 generations for any fundamental cultural integration to take root.

    Also, I'd like to know what you find "racist" about Henrik's comments. I have never heard him utter a racist word, on the contrary I've found him to be one of the most embracing of all bloger / commentators I've even listened to. He is a defender of universal cultural diversity and the preservation of peoples. The fact that he includes his own in that mix doesn't make him racist in my opinion.
    Yes, I have. It starts out with a one on one situation. Very gradual process.
    Dropping someone home after work, offering a lift in the car.
    Then introducing the kids to each other. If the intent is right, and the process is not forced, it works.
    The first meetings may be between less than half a dozen people.
    Then someone introduces the suggestion to do this on a more regular basis.
    I have seen it work, between blacks and whites. While the government in the US was failing with their busing policies, and corporations had to have a quota of black employees which only caused more harm than good.
    I met a black psychologist while living in Barbados...he was from Boston and on vacation in Barbados, and when I asked him what his work was like he told me that as a psychologist he counseled blacks who were employed via these quota policies, only because it was the law, and these people were blocked from climbing the corporate ladder within the company.
    So legislating racial tolerance doesn't work. Nor does spouting racial division.
    Only when it is voluntary, and coming from the grassroots, between those who are ready to reach out and give it a try.
    Slow process at first, but if there is a truly friendly intent it will soon gain momentum.
    In two generations from now there will be lots of Swedes who will have olive skins and hazel eyes.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    [QUOTE=ulli;957234][QUOTE=indigopete;957229]
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Yes, I have. It starts out with a one on one situation. Very gradual process.
    Dropping someone home after work, offering a lift in the car.
    Then introducing the kids to each other. If the intent is right, and the process is not forced, it works.
    The first meetings may be between less than half a dozen people.
    ok, I accept that you do and admire your tenacity in that respect.

    The kind of work you do can indeed be very productive in making racial integration work.

    At the same time it frustrates me that the distinction between racial tolerance/integration and mass geopolitical 'engineering' gets so blurred. Would you be equally happy if white settlers started flooding onto native American reservations and started building miles of concrete housing estates there ?

    There are 7 million Swedes and about 200 million muslims in the world. They have a right to assert a view as to what their immigration policy should be without being branded as 'racist'. I consider myself about as open minded as they come with regard to cultural diversity and yet I'm of the opinion that the policies they are pursuing are destructive and short sighted.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    [QUOTE=indigopete;957237][QUOTE=ulli;957234]
    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Yes, I have. It starts out with a one on one situation. Very gradual process.
    Dropping someone home after work, offering a lift in the car.
    Then introducing the kids to each other. If the intent is right, and the process is not forced, it works.
    The first meetings may be between less than half a dozen people.
    ok, I accept that you do and admire your tenacity in that respect.

    The kind of work you do can indeed be very productive in making racial integration work.

    At the same time it frustrates me that the distinction between racial tolerance/integration and mass geopolitical 'engineering' gets so blurred. Would you be equally happy if white settlers started flooding onto native American reservations and started building miles of concrete housing estates there ?

    There are 7 million Swedes and about 200 million muslims in the world. They have a right to assert a view as to what their immigration policy should be without being branded as 'racist'. I consider myself about as open minded as they come with regard to cultural diversity and yet I'm of the opinion that the policies they are pursuing are destructive and short sighted.
    Time will tell if these policies are short sighted. Governments can't do everything.
    The problem is that local governments are pretty ineffective these days
    as the brighter sparks in the populations are not willing to go into public service at all.
    Either want to become entrepreneurs and join the rat race,
    or criticize their governments that nothing is being done for them.
    So I'm just exploring other alternatives like voluntary participation at the local level.
    This is what we are doing here in rural Costa Rica. My husband is a village doctor,
    and we interact with the local people all the time,
    even writing letters to the authorities to get them to release funds for better public transportation,
    or fixing roads and bridges.
    Last edited by ulli; 1st May 2015 at 13:30.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    [QUOTE=indigopete;957237][QUOTE=ulli;957234]
    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Yes, I have. It starts out with a one on one situation. Very gradual process.
    Dropping someone home after work, offering a lift in the car.
    Then introducing the kids to each other. If the intent is right, and the process is not forced, it works.
    The first meetings may be between less than half a dozen people.
    ok, I accept that you do and admire your tenacity in that respect.

    The kind of work you do can indeed be very productive in making racial integration work.

    At the same time it frustrates me that the distinction between racial tolerance/integration and mass geopolitical 'engineering' gets so blurred. Would you be equally happy if white settlers started flooding onto native American reservations and started building miles of concrete housing estates there ?

    There are 7 million Swedes and about 200 million muslims in the world. They have a right to assert a view as to what their immigration policy should be without being branded as 'racist'. I consider myself about as open minded as they come with regard to cultural diversity and yet I'm of the opinion that the policies they are pursuing are destructive and short sighted.
    I absolutely respect your point of view Indigopete .. Everything you have said, I totally agree with. Walk in a Swede's shoes, first, please. As much as some people here disapprove of Henrik standing up for the preservation of his own race, and calling out on a system that stinks. Well, live in Sweden and you get the picture. The pressures and the problems caused by keeping the doors of Sweden wide open for years is real. Similar problems are encounted in Norway and it is being widely discussed around kitchen tables. And especially, about violence towards western women by certain immigrant groups. You bet. I have experienced it first hand. Freaked the life out of me and I was lucky to come out alive. Frightening. You can't just dismiss and denigrate sources that are coming up for air and publishing these stories. Believe you me, mainstream media in Sweden largely tries to cover these stories up.

    Personally, I love cultural diversity - but mixing certain cultures together is fraught - and how the government is dealing with it is even worse. The social engineers who have created this nightmare ... I won't go on.

    Ulli, I have seen plenty of social initiatives in Sweden to welcome immigrants from a government level to a local, personal level. Neighbour looking out for the new immigrant and finding ways to include them. However, now a lot of Swedes are waking up after being proud of their humanitarian reputation and now fear for their future. I know of one very proud socialist man who is dedicated to the ideas of inclusion and sharing and fairness. In the last two years, events in Sweden have done something quite extraordinary to him. He has broken from his hard core socialist programming and he is angry - angry at the government first and foremost for not dealing with these problems and managing the infrastructure fairly for all, but he has also woken up to the perversion of political correctness.

    If something is wrong, then people should speak up. Period.

    Very interesting thread. I think it is important to keep this issue out in the open.
    Last edited by Debra; 30th April 2015 at 13:39.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    [QUOTE=Zebra;957245][QUOTE=indigopete;957237]
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Yes, I have. It starts out with a one on one situation. Very gradual process.
    Dropping someone home after work, offering a lift in the car.
    Then introducing the kids to each other. If the intent is right, and the process is not forced, it works.
    The first meetings may be between less than half a dozen people.
    ok, I accept that you do and admire your tenacity in that respect.

    The kind of work you do can indeed be very productive in making racial integration work.

    At the same time it frustrates me that the distinction between racial tolerance/integration and mass geopolitical 'engineering' gets so blurred. Would you be equally happy if white settlers started flooding onto native American reservations and started building miles of concrete housing estates there ?

    There are 7 million Swedes and about 200 million muslims in the world. They have a right to assert a view as to what their immigration policy should be without being branded as 'racist'. I consider myself about as open minded as they come with regard to cultural diversity and yet I'm of the opinion that the policies they are pursuing are destructive and short sighted.
    I absolutely respect your point of view Indigopete .. Everything you have said, I totally agree with. Walk in a Swede's shoes, first, please. As much as some people here disapprove of Henrik standing up for the preservation of his own race, and calling out on a system that stinks. Well, live in Sweden and you get the picture. The pressures and the problems caused by keeping the doors of Sweden wide open for years is real. Similar problems are encounted in Norway and it is discussed around kitchen tables. And especially, violence towards western women by certain immigrant groups. You bet. I have experienced it first hand. Freaked the life out of me and I was lucky to come out alive. Frightening. You can't just dismiss and denigrate sources that are coming up for air and publishing these stories. Believe you me, mainstream media largely tries cover this up.

    Personally, I love cultural diversity - but mixing certain cultures together is fraught - and how the government is dealing with it is even worse. The social engineers who have created this nightmare ... I won't go on.

    Ulli, I have seen plenty of social initiatives in Sweden to welcome immigrants from a government level to a local, personal level. Neighbour looking out for the new immigrant and finding ways to include them. However, now a lot of Swedes are waking up after being proud of their humanitarian reputation and now fear for their future. I know of one very proud socialist man who is dedicated to the ideas of inclusion and sharing and fairness. In the last two years, events in Sweden have done something quite extraordinary to him. He has broken from his hard core socialist programming and he is angry - angry at the government first and foremost for not dealing with these problems and managing the infrastructure fairly for all, but he has also woken up to the perversion of political correctness.

    If something is wrong, then people should speak up. Period.



    Very interesting thread. I think it is important to keep this issue out in the open.
    Well I was once a young and pretty blonde, with blue eyes and long legs and a name like Ulla, and everyone thought I was a Swede who had come to Barbados for their sexually promiscuous men. When they found out that I was married to a member of the white (and wealthy) minority I became a target of a different kind...and was treated with incredible hostility, as it was then assumed I was a racist. Anyway, I am only throwing this in here because these are issues I have lived with for more than half of my life, and seen the problems from all sides.
    I could do a lot more sharing, like about waking up in the night and screaming my guts out while a masked thief was approaching my bed. And my screams made him run away, thank God. But after that it took me nearly six months to recover.
    I came to the conclusion that this stuff will eventually happen all over the world as long as nothing is being done about the crazy inequality, the brainwashing, the extremes of wealth and poverty. Offering sympathy to people going through it now...sure, I have plenty. It is a tough ride. But this too shall pass...and soon you will be telling others "been there, done that." Even if it is irritating.
    But each immigrant has a story far more horrific than any of us westerners who like me had a few nights sleep interrupted.

    In Barbados they are still circulating stories of the survivors that arrived on those slave ships, passed down the generations.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    [QUOTE=indigopete;957237][QUOTE=ulli;957234]
    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Yes, I have. It starts out with a one on one situation. Very gradual process.
    Dropping someone home after work, offering a lift in the car.
    Then introducing the kids to each other. If the intent is right, and the process is not forced, it works.
    The first meetings may be between less than half a dozen people.
    ok, I accept that you do and admire your tenacity in that respect.

    The kind of work you do can indeed be very productive in making racial integration work.

    At the same time it frustrates me that the distinction between racial tolerance/integration and mass geopolitical 'engineering' gets so blurred. Would you be equally happy if white settlers started flooding onto native American reservations and started building miles of concrete housing estates there ?

    There are 7 million Swedes and about 200 million muslims in the world. They have a right to assert a view as to what their immigration policy should be without being branded as 'racist'. I consider myself about as open minded as they come with regard to cultural diversity and yet I'm of the opinion that the policies they are pursuing are destructive and short sighted.
    I'm all for free speech.
    Actually, I'm for dialogues which can continue until all sides are agreeing on a win-win solution.

    And not all free speech is effective in getting there, and sometimes dialogue breaks down especially when the intent is to maintain racial purity at all cost. Because I can guarantee that fate or destiny will creep up like a shadow from behind and then the confrontations will soon lead to bloodshed.
    It's tricky.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Think of it this way, if it helps:

    The child of humanity can't be protected forever.

    Let the kid get dirty, and see what comes of it.

    So we can either fall back, cry and suckle on teats, or move forward in whatever way we do, under the given circumstances, forced or otherwise.

    Take charge, in whatever fashion, or fall back, in whatever fashion. 'Wake up' games, with no punches pulled. Real world stuff.

    In a universe with thousands of different biological entities, even across dimensions... with widely varied levels of intellect and act, it is never going to get any easier. It will only be far harder, far more difficult.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Firstly, thanks for presenting this information.

    I've had a good hard look at this today and the statistics in relation to sexual assault (sexualbrott) in Sweden did indeed rise slightly (0.5%) in 2013. This was up from the fairly flat decade long average of 0.8% and may represent a single spike in reporting of sexual assault for any number of possible reasons (for example a government advertising campaign would produce this kind of across the board increase).

    These statistics are not straight forward and are easy to misinterpret. They are to do with incidences of sexual assault as initially reported to police (not as the result of conviction for offense) and include those cases where a person accused is found innocent. In addition, while the definition of "sexual assault" includes "rape" it is far more than that and is a very broad classification.

    Around 50% of persons reporting sexual assault had been assaulted multiple times (43% reported being assaulted 2 to 10 times and 7% more than 10 times). In addition the stats I was looking at show that the incidence of sexual assault in cities, major towns and rural area were about the same (1.3% - 1.4%) in 2013 and ethnicity etc of the person reporting (whether new immigrant, child of immigrant or multi-generational) did not appear to be a factor. Meaning newly immigrant women are represented as being sexually assaulted in the statistics as often as longer term residents.

    Around 36% of sexual assaults occurred in public places, 31% in workplace or schools, 21% occurred in the home and 12% somewhere else.

    Only 11% were relatives of the person reporting the sexual assault, 33% were someone they knew and 56% were someone either unidentified or unknown to them. It has been mentioned by statisticians familiar with the questioning process used that while the assault may have been done by a family member or someone familiar to them the person reporting the assault may not initially report this and as a result the statistics may be skewed to the unidentified/unknown assailant as only the initial questionnaire answers are included in the statistics.

    I've found no statistical evidence to indicate that Muslim immigrants are over represented in the reporting of sexual assault. This doesn't mean they aren't. As cultural norms change, the likelihood of women who have shifted countries being encouraged to report an assault increases. As I've seen no statistical evidence to indicate that migrant women are not part of the cohort (the reverse is reported - there is even distribution) I'm inclined to view that the 0.5% increase may be to do with a combination of a government advertising campaign and a group of recently migrated women reporting their sexual assault by family members etc (eg husbands, male friends).

    Of the reported sexual assaults 47% were classified as rapes. Of these I have not found stats to do with what number of cases were continued and what of those ended in conviction. The only information I came across was from Amnesty International (2008) reporting that only 12% of those reporting rape get to court (ie 12% of the 47% classified as rapes or... 98000 reported a sexual assault, 47% of these are classified as rape so 46,000 and 12% of those get to court, so around 5500 court cases or ~0.08% of the population aged 16-79 yrs if the 2008 12% figure is applicable to the 2013 data set).

    BTW, the Christian Broadcasting Network is probably not the best source of information. It is a US conservative Christian organisation and might be inclined to present a negative image of Muslims. Hanne Herland is a conservative author who was bought up in Africa and has a MA in religious history. The Stone Gate Institute (now the Gate Stone Institute -- nothing if not imaginative) is a right wing conservative think tank. The Norwegian rape statistics is a case of misreporting/misinterpretation (whether deliberate or through lack of understanding how data is presented) and appears to have originated with a far right wing Israeli blogger.

    What is interesting is that I haven't come across anyone claiming that the decline in the decadal average for men as victims of muggings and assaults in Sweden is due to Muslim immigration...

    That's right, men are less likely to be mugged or assaulted now than a decade ago (while statistics for women have remained about the same).

    -- Pan

    References:

    The Swedish Crime Survey 2014: Concerning exposure to crime, insecurity and confidence
    National Crime Survey (2014) [Nationella trygghetsundersökningen 2014]
    Case Closed: Rape and human rights in the nordic countries
    von Hofer, Hanns, 2000. Crime statistics as constructs: The case of Swedish Rape Statistics. European Journal on Criminal Policy and Research 8: 77–89.
    Last edited by panopticon; 30th April 2015 at 16:28. Reason: Accidently listed Gatestone as a Christian group
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    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    This is such a multifaceted, complex and complicated topic so I do not even know where to start.

    For 6 years I've worked for the Swedish government on a grassroot level in a special project. My mission was to help people that was born abroad to find a home, place and work here in Sweden on their arrival and also people that had been here for quite some time. It included contact with employers in any means possible, knocking on their door, phoning, letters etc. To convince them that the person I cooperated with was as good as a born Swede. In the same time I worked very close and personal with the individuals, to better to get to know their background, beliefs, culture makeup and so on and so forth. I often also met their family in their home. Sometimes when they got a job I worked along them for a couple of days to make sure they understood the security instructions and rules at their working place.

    During my summer vacation I traveled north and worked as a volunteer with the indigenous people, Sami people, in both Norway and Sweden. In Sweden they have a different problem yet in a way correlated to the issue of immigration. However the situation for the norwegian Sami people are very different than those of Sweden. In Norway Sami people are much more accepted into the society.

    I have fought so many fights with my own employer regarding regulations and principles so I am not able to count. In the mean time I could not speak totally freely from heart because they would have probably fired me, so it was a balancing act every day every hour.

    I have been called racist at least once everyday by the people I was trying to help. I have been called traitor by the employers I've been visiting when trying to present my candidate for the job. I have seen all the fear, racism, misunderstanding, hatred, sorrow, happiness, and rigidness and all in between. I have experienced and learned a lot during the years, but for the time being I have no strength to make some sense of it in some forum posts. In that case I would have to write a book.

    I spent so many hours every day, during weekends and all year around, so I finally reached a point where I had to stop for a while.... and breathe.

    However, I personally prefer to be careful when labeling a whole population based on the few, especially when it comes to immigrants or nationality. And as some of you already stated, the issue is not the immigrants themselves, but the mechanism behind why imigration occurs in the first place and how it is received and handled by the countries they arrive to. Forced by who and for what reason, well I think we have at least an idea .

    I think I speak for all of them in one thing though. They are no different than their neighbour in the core. They want a roof over their head, warmth, food on the table, safety for themselves and their families... simply a place to call home.

    I have cried so many times after my working hours in frustration for the stupidity how some things work in the so called reality here and how simple it would be to change things if it wasn't for some regulations, politics and mentality. I have also shred countless of tears for the heartbreaking stories of those people that I worked with and also in happiness when we together found a solution for the better in their life and family.

    For all of you, you are all still in my heart, I am now here representing your voice for you have not the luxury to do so. Speaking on behalf of those who can no longer speak, those who are afraid to speak, and those who wish to speak but are afraid they will not be heard.


    In eternity with peace

    InCiDeR
    Last edited by InCiDeR; 1st May 2015 at 02:09.
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    neither do I always think what I believe

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by Silkie (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Planet earth is like a soup being prepared.
    .
    A gentleman posted this on Face Book. It is a constructive, balanced look at immigration in Sweden, from a Swede.

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...27138290783165
    Just a friendly reminder.

    Some of us, refuse to use Facebook and it is impossible to see what he posted without membership log in.

    Edit

    Sorry, , It doesn't need a log in.
    Last edited by Tangri; 1st May 2015 at 01:54.
    Love and Hope

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  25. Link to Post #53
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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    I hear you InCIDeR

    I spent 30 years in the systems of welfare,unemployment,education,national and local governments,training facilitation, federal and provincial corrections, addictions arena, plus family support work. You can tell that I moved around quite a bit in those 30 years due to not consenting to many of the protocols, etc and doing things the functional way for the individual involved.........broke many rules under cover and quite enjoyed watching the success the person created by their own sense and knowing of how to and personal empowerment.

    Thank you for your service to mankind, you are to be respected, valued and admired for sifting through all the garbage in the systems to truly just help a fellow human in need. Whether we carry a label such as , male, female, child, adult, immigrant, slouch, criminal, outsider, race, culture, teacher, student, etc., under it all, we all operate from the common core of feelings and we all have the same ones. Love and Fear being the tip of the iceberg on either side of the coin, .........and they are messages from out infinite soul. Thank you for your strength in being deeply in touch with your soul and getting passed fear to be the compassionate BEING you are.

    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    This is such a multifaceted, complex and complicated topic so I do not even know where to start.

    For 6 years I've worked for the Swedish government on a grassroot level in a special project. My mission was to help people that was born abroad to find a home, place and work here in Sweden on their arrival and also people that had been here for quite some time. It included contact with employers in any means possible, knocking on their door, phoning, letters etc. To convince them that the person I cooperated with was as good as a born Swede. In the same time I worked very close and personal with the individuals, to better to get to know their background, beliefs, culture makeup and so on and so forth. I often also met their family in their home. Sometimes when they got a job I worked along them for a couple of days to make sure they understood the security instructions and rules at their working place.

    During my summer vacation I traveled north and worked as a volunteer with the indigenous people, Sami people, in both Norway and Sweden. In Sweden they have a different problem yet in a way correlated to the issue of immigration. However the situation for the norwegian Sami people are very different than those of Sweden. In Norway Sami people are much more accepted into the society.

    I have fought so many fights with my own employer regarding regulations and principles so I am not able to count. In the mean time I could not speak totally freely from heart because they would have probably fired me, so it was a balancing act every day every hour.

    I have been called racist at least once everyday by the people I was trying to help. I have been called traitor by the employers I've been visiting when trying to present my candidate for the job. I have seen all the fear, racism, misunderstanding, hatred, sorrow, happiness, and rigidness and all in between. I have experienced and learned a lot during the years, but for the time being I have no strength to make some sense of it in some forum posts. In that case I would have to write a book.

    I spent so many hours every day, during weekends and all year around, so I finally reached a point where I had to stop for a while.... and breathe.

    However, I personally prefer to be careful when labeling a whole population based on the few, especially when it comes to immigrants or nationality. And as some of you already stated, the issue is not the immigrants themselves, but the mechanism behind why imigration occurs in the first place and how it is received and handled by the countries they arrive to. Forced by who and for what reason, well I think we have at least an idea .

    I think I speak for all of them in one thing though. They are no different than their neighbour in the core. They want a roof over their head, warmth, food on the table, safety for themselves and their families... simply a place to call home.

    I have cried so many times after my working hours in frustration for the stupidity how some things work in the so called reality here and how simple it would be to change things if it wasn't for some regulations, politics and mentality. I have also shred countless of tears for the heartbreaking stories of those people that I worked with and also in happiness when we together found a solution for the better in their life and family.

    For all of you, you are all still in my heart, I am now here representing your voice for you have not the luxury to do so. Speaking on behalf of those who can no longer speak, those who are afraid to speak, and those who wish to speak but are afraid they will not be heard.


    In eternity with peace

    InCiDeR
    Last edited by sandy; 1st May 2015 at 02:46.
    Love and Light Always/Sandy

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by sandy (here)
    I hear you InCIDeR

    I spent 30 years in the systems of welfare,unemployment,education,national and local governments,training facilitation, federal and provincial corrections, addictions arena, plus family support work. You can tell that I moved around quite a bit in those 30 years due to not consenting to many of the protocols, etc and doing things the functional way for the individual involved.........broke many rules under cover and quite enjoyed watching the success the person created by their own sense and knowing of how to and personal empowerment.

    Thank you for your service to mankind, you are to be respected, valued and admired for sifting through all the garbage in the systems to truly just help a fellow human in need. Whether we carry a label such as , male, female, child, adult, immigrant, slouch, criminal, outsider, race, culture, teacher, student, etc., under it all, we all operate from the common core of feelings and we all have the same ones. Love and Fear being the tip of the iceberg on either side of the coin, .........and they are messages from out infinite soul. Thank you for your strength in being deeply in touch with your soul and getting passed fear to be the compassionate BEING you are.
    Thank you from my heart to yours sandy, it means a lot to me. I took some time for my response because it is hard to write with watering eyes.
    I don't necessarily believe what I think,
    neither do I always think what I believe

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    This is such a multifaceted, complex and complicated topic so I do not even know where to start.

    For 6 years I've worked for the Swedish government on a grassroot level in a special project. My mission was to help people that was born abroad to find a home, place and work here in Sweden on their arrival and also people that had been here for quite some time. It included contact with employers in any means possible, knocking on their door, phoning, letters etc. To convince them that the person I cooperated with was as good as a born Swede. In the same time I worked very close and personal with the individuals, to better to get to know their background, beliefs, culture makeup and so on and so forth. I often also met their family in their home. Sometimes when they got a job I worked along them for a couple of days to make sure they understood the security instructions and rules at their working place.

    During my summer vacation I traveled north and worked as a volunteer with the indigenous people, Sami people, in both Norway and Sweden. In Sweden they have a different problem yet in a way correlated to the issue of immigration. However the situation for the norwegian Sami people are very different than those of Sweden. In Norway Sami people are much more accepted into the society.

    I have fought so many fights with my own employer regarding regulations and principles so I am not able to count. In the mean time I could not speak totally freely from heart because they would have probably fired me, so it was a balancing act every day every hour.

    I have been called racist at least once everyday by the people I was trying to help. I have been called traitor by the employers I've been visiting when trying to present my candidate for the job. I have seen all the fear, racism, misunderstanding, hatred, sorrow, happiness, and rigidness and all in between. I have experienced and learned a lot during the years, but for the time being I have no strength to make some sense of it in some forum posts. In that case I would have to write a book.

    I spent so many hours every day, during weekends and all year around, so I finally reached a point where I had to stop for a while.... and breathe.

    However, I personally prefer to be careful when labeling a whole population based on the few, especially when it comes to immigrants or nationality. And as some of you already stated, the issue is not the immigrants themselves, but the mechanism behind why imigration occurs in the first place and how it is received and handled by the countries they arrive to. Forced by who and for what reason, well I think we have at least an idea .

    I think I speak for all of them in one thing though. They are no different than their neighbour in the core. They want a roof over their head, warmth, food on the table, safety for themselves and their families... simply a place to call home.

    I have cried so many times after my working hours in frustration for the stupidity how some things work in the so called reality here and how simple it would be to change things if it wasn't for some regulations, politics and mentality. I have also shred countless of tears for the heartbreaking stories of those people that I worked with and also in happiness when we together found a solution for the better in their life and family.

    For all of you, you are all still in my heart, I am now here representing your voice for you have not the luxury to do so. Speaking on behalf of those who can no longer speak, those who are afraid to speak, and those who wish to speak but are afraid they will not be heard.


    In eternity with peace

    InCiDeR
    G'day Incider,

    Thank you for sharing your story and your efforts to assist people in need.

    It is never easy working in an environment where there are no simple solutions. That's what is often forgotten by those who shout loud simplistic slogans and fudge data to back up their claims. There are no simple answers or easy solutions.

    Because of this thread I've been reading about the problems facing migrants to Sweden and your post reflects what I would imagine (from similar experiences) the situation for field/frontline staff would be.

    What seems to be getting glossed over by others is the level of trauma suffered by immigrants prior to their arrival in Sweden.

    I was reading this paper and for those who are interested I'd advise a quick gloss over (it's quite technical in parts -- you've been warned!).

    When 40% of respondents to a questionaire are reporting that they were tortured/systematically assaulted and 28% are reporting having been imprisoned in their country of origin they are going to have difficulties "integrating" into anything.

    Add to that the reported abuse from the local population and the finaincial hardship the immigrants face is it any wonder that suicides amongst immigrants is higher than the Swedish average.

    Essentially this is a group of people with a high percentage suffering from post traumatic stress disorder who are "released" into the Swedish population. There are obviously programs in place to assist them but how many take advantage of these? Probably not as many as should. Also, if Sweden is anything like Australia, the services are under funded and under staffed. This leads to burnout amongst staff and frustration amongst what here is euphemistically referred to as "clients".

    Again, there are no simple solutions to this.

    The long term aim of course would be to improve conditions throughout the world so people aren't fleeing persecution.

    -- Pan

    Reference:

    Fredrik Lindencrona, Solvig Ekblad, and Edvard Hauff. 2008. Mental health of recently resettled refugees from the Middle East in Sweden: the impact of pre-resettlement trauma, resettlement stress and capacity to handle stress. Social psychiatry and psychiatric epidemiology, 43 (2), 121-31
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Immigration is the new "hate theme", legal or illegal, in the US or elsewhere. All you have to do is to ask yourself this question: Is this inclusive and loving, or separating and hateful? Then you understand what immigration protests mean. It is wanted by the dark cabal so that separation, hatred and conflict will occur among the people to make them weak and powerless, while the cabal carries out its agenda for the beast. Henrik has a soul lesson to learn.

    Countries should not even exist, because they create separation. We need one big undivided land ruled by a people in love and peace. We cannot become free, we cannot reach the stars, before we start working for the whole.
    Last edited by WhiteLove; 1st May 2015 at 05:46.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    This Emigration thing belongs in the bin. 2015 and we're still fighting about what land belongs to who?
    This whole planet belongs to me and every single one of you. We were all born here.
    We should all be free to travel without restrictions, passports, visa's permissions etc... it's been too long. we need to grow up and see that we're all one.

    We often forget how much unites all the members of humanity, Perhaps we need some outside universal threats to make us recognise this common bond.
    I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world". ( Ronald Reagan 21 September 1987)

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Ok, something went wrong as I was answering ullis post, and since it's impossible to erase a post I could just as well write something: Mercury is already messing with communication. Be prepared for misunderstandings, disinformation, loosing things, delays, doing things over and over, computor problems but also old friends popping up which happened to me twice today. I also could not find my wallet and reported it to the police and blocked my Visa Card only to find it in a drawer 1 hour later where i had put it while looking for stockings....
    Last edited by transiten; 16th May 2015 at 20:43.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Planet earth is like a soup being prepared.
    First the various ingredients are placed in the pot. Then heat is applied. Then the soup gets stirred, so that everything can blend.
    If despite cheap travel people don't want to visit exotic far-away places and cultures for whatever reason, those places and cultures will be brought to them.
    Without the slave trade several centuries ago there would be no such a person today, as an African American.

    What makes today's situation harder is that a) it would be politically incorrect to put immigrants to work, and that b) the government is "dumping" them on the population, without proper back-up programs.

    So the only answer is that local communities rise up, at least those who are willing and can see this reality for what it is, and form centers in their towns, and invite these traumatized immigrants and start socializing, doing pot luck meals, listening to each others stories....

    Is this so hard to figure out? Think globally, act locally.

    I was shocked last year at hearing Red Ice and Hendrik and JLL spouting their racist obscenities instead of putting their heads together to come up with friendly solutions.
    Thanks ulli! You "took the words out of my mouth" as we say in Sweden.
    All the same I can understand pple are afraid; there has been a lot of deadly shooting among drugdealers in Gothenburg in areas with a lot of immigrants but the solution cannot be voting for the "Swedish Democrats" with roots in the Nazi movement. The world is being destabilized by this Power Elite, divide and rule and as long as pple don't know the root cause of war and poverty fear and confusion will rule.
    Last edited by transiten; 16th May 2015 at 20:44.

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    Default Re: Red Ice Radio about massive wave of incoming immigrants to Sweden

    Quote Posted by WhiteLove (here)
    Immigration is the new "hate theme", legal or illegal, in the US or elsewhere. All you have to do is to ask yourself this question: Is this inclusive and loving, or separating and hateful? Then you understand what immigration protests mean. It is wanted by the dark cabal so that separation, hatred and conflict will occur among the people to make them weak and powerless, while the cabal carries out its agenda for the beast. Henrik has a soul lesson to learn.

    Countries should not even exist, because they create separation. We need one big undivided land ruled by a people in love and peace. We cannot become free, we cannot reach the stars, before we start working for the whole.
    Totally agree although there will be tribultaions upon our different lifepaths/timelines arriving there....

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