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Thread: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

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    Default Choice Point: Escape the Web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

    Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.

    In the years since, many have been arrested and convicted of various crimes: one, an angel communicator and 'metaphysical doctor' for defrauding her state out of 2.7 million dollars; she used her day job (caring for vulnerable special needs children) to bilk state funds and build herself a mansion.

    Another Mohawk 'shaman' was recently revealed not to be Native American, to have fabricated his entire story, and to have defrauded the state of NY out of housing payments. He also swindled folk in Europe out of thousands.

    Another went to jail for murder.

    Another man, a 'spiritualist' reverend told me at one event that 'he didn't care about any of the people he talked to, and he was just there for the money.

    Then he proceeded to say he kept his hair long and wore all his jewellery because women liked it- it brought them in. And then he said, 'most of the women are here because they hate men....I don't care...I take their money.'

    He tried to get me involved, thought I'd be great for his scam- a clean-cut young guy; he told me I just needed to lose a bit of weight and work on my 'communication' skills and I could make a ton of money.

    Still others were heart-centred serene types in their booths at the show, but behind the scenes were nasty, cutting and as cut-throat as you'd see in any business world setting.

    Other of these holistic folk tried to sell me on various miracle-juice pyramid schemes.

    Another 'healer' I used to sell advertising for recently left his cancer-ridden wife for a younger woman.

    And the ‘metaphysical’ journal I used to write for is now trying to charge 'writers' a fee for the privilege to submit their work to be published.

    Now, after many years, I'm pretty disillusioned.

    When I look at the themes emerging from alt media and on alt forums, I see shams galore: an alien-agenda insider who constantly threatens people who disagree with his message of 'peace'; fake liberty champions and common law advocates who want to try the queen and the pope in special tribunals that don't exist; then there are the obvious shills pulling for one 'gang' or the other- people paid to write for or against Israel- for or against the Vatican- for or against Ron Paul- Pro Scientology or anti Scientology, pro or anti Russia.

    Then there are the people campaigning against child molestation who are using faked confessions of obviously coached kids to do it, thus muddying the waters for legitimate campaigners.

    And I ask myself, 'cui bono?'

    I've noticed the same stories making the rounds on all alt media channels, nearly simultaneously- posted by people using willowy, airy, light-hearted avatars.

    Their words are silky and sweet, but turn cold and hard as steel when any concerns about the veracity of their claims are raised.

    It’s all led me to a tentative conclusion: I think alt media is one tool, among many, being used to gin up chaos and break down ‘culture’ to prepare us for a kind of controlled demolition and stage-managed rebirth.

    I suspect it's a coordinated movement being brought to us by the same culture-creators that brought us, among other things, 9-11, LSD, and the centrally planned revolution of the 1960's. And with the aid of the Internet, it's happening all over the planet at breakneck speed.

    The demolition will be real, even if it's totally scripted and all the key players are actors.

    Escaping the mainstream matrix, to the extent I’ve achieved it, was worthwhile; but alt media is another matrix nested within the larger one.

    It's a big spider's web that I've been thrashing around in for years. I've found some useful information in the web, but the spider's got a real good read on me at this point, too.

    I'm okay with that. I've met some good folk, including many of you.

    But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

    Or is there spider hunting to be done?

    Last edited by Curt; 25th May 2015 at 11:35.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    This guy went for the spiders...


    ... got himself freshly assassinated a few days ago...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    I haven't been on here in quite a while. This is in large part because of being really busy recently, but also it's been a building frustration that the more I read (here and elswhere), the more disillusioned I become with the general 'state' that I see. Ahhh, phew: then I read something like this, and I'm relieved.

    I think you're dead-on. Some of the most seemingly switched on people are sometimes, if not often, actually the most lost. I could be one of them I suppose. So many people on here and everywhere will attack at the first hint of a perceived grievance. And all of those agencies of confusion, I feel, are almost certainly acting in precisely the way you describe, to create more confusion, and more people following false messages and promises. Those agencies would be missing a trick if they weren't.

    What can we do about this? More and more, I keep coming back to this: the only thing actually worth doing is growing up. Laurence (that's me), please remember that you are on a mission to become responsible for everything you think, everything you feel, everything you say, and everything you do. The world is in a mess: take responsibility for yourself. Somebody was nasty to you: take responsibility for how you feel about it, and don't blame them for a thing.

    I'm convinced that self responsibility is the one thing that the forces you're talking about can't touch (ok, and conciousness itself), and I feel it's the one thing that humanity will have to learn if it's to move forward at all. Che Gevara: "No revolution of change will ever be successful, unless people themselves change". This has all been said before. It's worth repeating.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the Web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Quote Posted by Curt (here)
    I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

    Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.
    ...
    ...
    But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

    Or is there spider hunting to be done?
    Could you please back up your claims about those healers wrt them being arrested and so on with legit documentation/links to help us verify the information you are sharing here? thanks
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 25th May 2015 at 14:02. Reason: mod edit: trimmed the quote, dropped the font size

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Curt, I would change the thread title if I were you for: Reality hits in, intelligent regrouping and down to earth evolution sets in.

    I completely agree with what you say.

    Guys, there is so few of yous up there, responsible of their own findings, emotionally understanding AND with critical analysis capabilities, can I marry you?

    Roisin, I could find most of what Curt talks about on the web, I have seen the same over time.For half of it, I know whom he refers to.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Hey Curt, another superb, thought-provoking post from you. And, though our specific experiences are not equal, our arrival at the same crossroads is. Sort of paralleling what you've said about the new-age/healers generally being a sham, I have found political activists to be mostly...well, "sham" may not be exactly the right word, but disingenuous in that they HAVE to see that they are simply creating noise that no one in power is listening to, strategies that cannot work, and weak plans that would not really change anything. And the crossroads: after about 5 years trying to spur a citizen's movement to oust the minions of the Elite from power and prevent the Elite from controlling elections and governance - and getting nowhere - do I keep trying, or give up and focus on family and homesteading...maybe even expatriate.

    Thanks much for your post. I'd love to meet you in person: you're interesting, have integrity, are honest, and are compassionate. Whichever fork in the road you take, keep in touch.


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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Are efforts best spent on escaping the web? Rather than expend energy on escaping, I focus, listen, and follow through moment to moment in the world I continue to create.

    For now, I don’t have solution for the bigger concerns. But what I’ve adopted and live is it’s more than me discovering that solutions are inside. It’s the inner knowing that when they’re ready to surface they just do. My job is to pay attention. And even those times when 'the fear brakes' make me want to come to a full stop, I still follow through.

    I don’t put focus on escaping the web, rather I’m my own medicine woman. I’m my own personal trainer, researcher, artist, technician, teacher, bookkeeper, healer…

    How that helps in the greater scheme is that critical point of by living in present awareness, our combined awareness mergers and the larger solutions will be plucked out of the ethers of that larger within that we're all created from.

    <3
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 25th May 2015 at 21:54.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the Web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Hi Roisin,

    Yes, I could. But, no, I won't.

    It's beyond the scope of this thread to name and shame people.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the Web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Quote Posted by Curt (here)
    Thank you for sharing your experiences here. I have not read a perspective quite like yours but I have long suspected of one. It seems you could write a book from your perspective that would be an interesting read.

    When I read your experiences detail here, it reminds me of Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole.

    Granted, the spider is a 'soul' trapper but it is worth noting that the spider is trapped in a web of it's own making as well.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the Web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    Quote Posted by Curt (here)
    I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

    Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.
    ...
    ...
    But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

    Or is there spider hunting to be done?
    Could you please back up your claims about those healers wrt them being arrested and so on with legit documentation/links to help us verify the information you are sharing here? thanks
    Roisin, (as a mod), I almost deleted your post entirely (I did trim the quoted material down and reduced the screamingly large, accusatory, font size.)

    You completely missed the point of Curt's thread. Maybe go back and read the opening post again, and try to find out what Curt is saying. Any further derailment of this thread will be either deleted or split off.


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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Sorry dennis, i'll try to do better next time.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the Web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    deleted post
    Last edited by Roisin; 26th May 2015 at 00:59.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Hello Curt,

    I‘ve so enjoyed your presence and your writing here at Avalon over the years, and this thread is no exception. I too had a moment such as yours a few weeks ago here although I expressed it a bit differently.

    Yes, the alternative media is fraught with the same misfortune that mainstream media faces, and so is the whole spiritual movement fraught with the same problems. Any time you have duality you will see both polarities.

    My question to you is: Do you also see the great posts in the alt media and the great empathic writers and healers? I can honestly say, in my experience over the last fifteen years, that I have met some incredible healers whose intentions are pure and their modalities have helped hundreds of people. I will also say, without the help of some of these healers I would not be where I am today, and would not have been able to do the clearing in my energy field without them.

    The downside to all of this, is that we are still operating from the place of scarcity and exchange our energies within a fiat debt system of commerce, and therefore, even the empathic healers who are of pure intent still need to charge for their services, which makes it a business, which makes it subject to the Uniform Commercial Code and the fiat system of exchange.

    Very few avatars, as I like to call them, have the presence in their energy fields to manifest at will and operate outside of the fiat system, so discernment is key. Although healers and writers are operating within this system, I still look towards a new paradigm of abundance and true empathy and encourage those who are intentioning this shift and working through the bugs of the transition.

    Do I get burned at times? Yes I do, yet to me it's worth the risk.
    Last edited by gripreaper; 25th May 2015 at 16:11.
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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    It's against the law of the Universe to charge a fee for services of that nature because by charging a fee, they risk losing their gift. This is a well known FACT. This is why authentic psychics, empaths etc only humbly request a donation but cannot charge a fee.

    Many have had to learn the hard way to find that out. The authentic ones have day jobs to cover their living expenses as their donations are not enough to live on as it's only extra pin money and nothing more.

    This also explains why authentic psychics cannot use their gifts to win money at gambling or the lottery.
    For example, Uri Geller who is someone I have personally met, one time went to a casino with friends and won thousands of dollars only for it all to be lost on the way home when the bag full of cash somehow burst open whereby causing all of the cash to be blown away in the wind.
    Last edited by Roisin; 25th May 2015 at 16:43.

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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Thanks Curt.

    What you say does remind me about What Mark Passio has to say about the New Age in relation with his experiences with Satanism.

    You have voiced suspicions i have had for a while now though have not had the experience or evidence to back up, though i have been involved in 'the new age movement', and seeing through much of it raised many suspicions.

    I have noticed there are those who claim to have a spiritual and peaceful message yet react very negatively when challenged and a power struggle often ensues ranging from defense to attack and a fight for the last post/word. Its better to just accept criticism and let it go.

    I have to admit being sucked into these merry-go-rounds of reaction myself. There is something about forums that can bring out my negative shadow, its both a blessing and a curse, at least its something i can learn from.

    Its just a shame that disillusionment is often the lesson learned. I suppose that is the price for honest awareness in these times in which we live.

    Most of that which i held in high esteem has been revealed to be just a facade and a pretense. This does call me to be reliant upon myself, sceptical and more discerning about everything else.

    It is encouraging though to see more people especially new agers becoming aware of many of the spiritual and alternative fallacies that abound.

    Its not so much about finding the truth, but more of uncovering it in a process of discovering what is not true. In much the same way as i find out more about who i am by finding out who i am not.
    Last edited by loveoflife; 25th May 2015 at 17:14.

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  28. Link to Post #16
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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    We're all swimming in an ocean called the Human Condition.
    Every once in a while a large Human Issue rises up and tries to drown us.
    The people who can't swim just cling on -- all we can do sometimes is keep our heads above the water.
    Sometimes what defines us the most is our extreme misery.

    I know how you feel regarding the Web. People who write put SO MUCH of themselves out in the open.
    How do you recall a thing like that? Just reel it back in like fishing bait? Sadly, it's not that simple!

    A lot of people are feeling pressure this week due to the NSA stuff.
    Personally, I think if their powers are stripped, they will focus more perhaps on the info they've already collected.
    That could mean a lot of things for people who were active on the internet before their powers are limited.
    What I'm saying is, yes, there is concern about grudges etc. because of what we've been up to.

    However there is also a great value on the information you've gleaned from your time on the Internet.

    There is actually a whole faction of E-Readers out there who like blogs.
    I don't mean a blog like mine, where it's a bunch of doom and forecasting.

    I mean a real, professional, tight, "together" kind of blog,
    a high-class product because it's YOURS.
    People love that stuff. And they love honest individuals.

    I guess what I am saying is, if you do tire of the Alt Community,
    you have an amazing intelligence and could start your own website;
    not a forum, but a news blog/opinion site --

    why do I say this? Because other people like you would read it,
    they are also sick of group think.

    Hope this helped and wasn't just a rant

  29. Link to Post #17
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    I have the same feeling to this all Curt , and statements I've made already ..

    it's been disenchanting to speak something as precious as uncommon truth , yet nothing less than truth to crowd , no , a world full of spiders and flies , and praying mantises .
    It could possibly satisfy blabbering 2 year old toddler .

    Being dragged in , around, in and out , and advised by every forthcoming teen-ager how you can do it better , and how the world is full of individuals like you.
    One of them asked me discretely what books did I ever read and whether it's 'pain for me to read book in English' . Not a teenager after all , I felt humiliated .

    I understood how hopelessly does the world live locked in some peoples heads .

    The feeling of self-blame , shame unknown to better half of the proud 'human species' has been dominating my perspective for long enough now ,

    months or years ?

    No, it's not how anyone should feel , we just do , we take the feeling from each other . You do wrong , I'm ashamed . I do wrong you're ashamed . It's how connected , loving society used to be . It's hardly that way on the net but I was not brought up for this and can't really escape the feeling .

    The horrors of daily news ..

    Friends who had been for real and yet .. somehow , we never came to know each other close enough .

    Barriers , because in real life silence also has a meaning and language , and here it's all about whether you've done 'your homework' , updated your blog, webpage, pushed another piece of intelligent activism forwards and so forth.


    I don't want to be here and feel as if I have issues with credibility and what else because 'all the other people' who do have issues .
    In real life , I've travelled far enough - against anyones convictions and advice - to find authentic spiritual teachings , and teachers , for example .
    They're still there .. in mountains and jungles , and libraries , and all walks of life .. but it's your wanting the truth and how much that brings you together or not .

    And then there are courses and seminars and couching for people who are curious about what the heck the truth could be . I think it's about millions of lies for an ounce of truth .


    Lets not quite give up ... I suggest taking our brains for walk .. and maybe we all meet somewhere out there , in park .

    Remember : Truth is Out There .


    Happy tidings


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  31. Link to Post #18
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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Quote Posted by Apulu (here)

    I'm convinced that self responsibility is the one thing that the forces you're talking about can't touch (ok, and conciousness itself), and I feel it's the one thing that humanity will have to learn if it's to move forward at all. Che Gevara: "No revolution of change will ever be successful, unless people themselves change". This has all been said before. It's worth repeating.
    I agree. Self-responsibility is probably the silver bullet solution that would take down 'the beast' once and for all.

    When I think about dystopian futures like those described in A Brave New World, or 1984, both systems rely on people being totally managed.

    In Huxley's vision, people are well-treated and blissed out on Soma; they are entertained and heavily sexed and get to satisfy all their appetites, save one: freedom. His version of dystopian slavery is the carrot. Orwell's is the stick.

    But neither would be possible in a world where people took responsibility for themselves. I think the utopian urge is essentially the death urge- a desire to be subsumed into the mass and escape personal responsibility through a version of non-existance where people still walk around, talk, floss and occasionally go to the movies.

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    This guy went for the spiders...


    ... got himself freshly assassinated a few days ago...
    Yep. A stark reminder.

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Curt, I would change the thread title if I were you for: Reality hits in, intelligent regrouping and down to earth evolution sets in.

    Guys, there is so few of yous up there, responsible of their own findings, emotionally understanding AND with critical analysis capabilities, can I marry you?

    .


    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    ....And the crossroads: after about 5 years trying to spur a citizen's movement to oust the minions of the Elite from power and prevent the Elite from controlling elections and governance - and getting nowhere - do I keep trying, or give up and focus on family and homesteading...maybe even expatriate.

    Thanks much for your post. I'd love to meet you in person: you're interesting, have integrity, are honest, and are compassionate. Whichever fork in the road you take, keep in touch.
    Thanks, my friend. I try. Mostly, I fail. But it's still the best game in town. And ditto.

    It'd be great to meet someday. If I'm ever back in the States, we definitely can.

    Keep fighting the good fight, brother.

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)

    I don’t put focus on escaping the web, rather I’m my own medicine woman. I’m my own personal trainer, researcher, artist, technician, teacher, bookkeeper, healer…

    How that helps in the greater scheme is that critical point of by living in present awareness, our combined awareness mergers and the larger solutions will be plucked out of the ethers of that larger within that we're all created from.

    <3
    Wise as always, Pauler. Your approach reminds me of this scene from the film Labyrinth...

    Quote Posted by joeecho (here)
    Quote Posted by Curt (here)
    ...the spider is a 'soul' trapper but it is worth noting that the spider is trapped in a web of it's own making as well.
    I think you're right... So the spider is subject to rules... just like the monster in any horror movie- or the big boss in any video game.

    I never did manage to knock out Mike Tyson in Nintendo's 'Punch Out'...

    The zombie can be defeated with a blow to the brain, the vampire with a stake to the heart, or sunlight.

    Guess it's a matter of trial and error, and sharing insights, which, I suppose, is what many of us are doing here.

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    Hello Curt,

    My question to you is: Do you also see the great posts in the alt media and the great empathic writers and healers? I can honestly say, in my experience over the last fifteen years, that I have met some incredible healers whose intentions are pure and their modalities have helped hundreds of people. I will also say, without the help of some of these healers I would not be where I am today, and would not have been able to do the clearing in my energy field without them.
    I do. And I'm very thankful for these people and their contributions to my life.

    In my limited experience, though, it hasn't tended to be people who self-identify as healers who offer the best 'healing'.

    For me, it's been writers and thinkers like Joseph Cambell, James Joyce, Tolkein or even Charles Bukowski- or strange, comic writers like Donald Barthelme.

    I've gotten more insight on life, and more spiritual nourishment from Charlie Brown and Porky Pig cartoons than I have from any number of therapists, alt healers and shamans.

    That sounds flip, I know, but I actually mean that sincerely. But I'm very thankful for anyone anywhere that offers something truly nourishing.

    They're out there doing good work every day.

    Quote Posted by loveoflife (here)

    It's just a shame that disillusionment is often the lesson learned. I suppose that is the price for honest awareness in these times in which we live.

    Most of that which i held in high esteem has been revealed to be just a facade and a pretense. This does call me to be reliant upon myself, sceptical and more discerning about everything else.

    It is encouraging though to see more people especially new agers becoming aware of many of the spiritual and alternative fallacies that abound.

    Its not so much about finding the truth, but more of uncovering it in a process of discovering what is not true. In much the same way as i find out more about who i am by finding out who i am not.
    I think you're right. The process does seem to be one of winnowing down the information to find what's potentially useful.

    And I guess there's no line-cutting and no cheat sheet to speed up that process. 'It takes the time it takes', to quote a certain Zebra....

    But, there's no denying it probably goes faster with help from a community of people trying to do the same thing.

    Quote Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)
    ... all we can do sometimes is keep our heads above the water.
    Sometimes what defines us the most is our extreme misery.

    ...However there is also a great value on the information you've gleaned from your time on the Internet. P
    I agree on both counts.
    Last edited by Curt; 26th May 2015 at 11:49.

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  33. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Curt, you said "I think the utopian urge is essentially the death urge a desire to be subsumed into the mass and escape personal responsibility..."

    Hmmmm. So if someone packs up their bags to move to what they think is a better, safer and maybe even more beautiful country than the one they live in... in short, a place that matches up to their Utopian view of a better world, you think that's only a death urge?
    I would rethink that Curt. lol

    Though it's true that there will always be those who move away from "home" to escape it and their personal responsibilities too, the vast majority of people who DO move or for that matter attempt to build a better community in the place where they live that comes close to what they view as more "utopian"... to me, are people who are on the right track. There is nothing wrong with wanting to build a better world in which to live.
    Last edited by Roisin; 26th May 2015 at 12:20.

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  35. Link to Post #20
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    Default Re: Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    ... I think it's about millions of lies for an ounce of truth...

    Lets not quite give up ... I suggest taking our brains for walk .. and maybe we all meet somewhere out there, in park .

    Remember : Truth is Out There .

    Happy tidings

    I think you're probably right about the ratio...a million to one sounds about right.

    But I also think you're right that it's not an excuse to give up.

    The park sounds nice to me. My brain needs frequent walks, for sure.

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