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Thread: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

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    Default Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    From http://www.sciencealert.com/reality-...s&limitstart=1

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Australian scientists have recreated a famous experiment and confirmed quantum physics's bizarre predictions about the nature of reality, by proving that reality doesn't actually exist until we measure it - at least, not on the very small scale.

    That all sounds a little mind-meltingly complex, but the experiment poses a pretty simple question: if you have an object that can either act like a particle or a wave, at what point does that object 'decide'?

    Our general logic would assume that the object is either wave-like or particle-like by its very nature, and our measurements will have nothing to do with the answer. But quantum theory predicts that the result all depends on how the object is measured at the end of its journey. And that's exactly what a team from the Australian National University has now found.

    "It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it," lead researcher and physicist Andrew Truscott said in a press release.

    Known as John Wheeler's delayed-choice thought experiment, the experiment was first proposed back in 1978 using light beams bounced by mirrors, but back then, the technology needed was pretty much impossible. Now, almost 40 years later, the Australian team has managed to recreate the experiment using helium atoms scattered by laser light.

    "Quantum physics predictions about interference seem odd enough when applied to light, which seems more like a wave, but to have done the experiment with atoms, which are complicated things that have mass and interact with electric fields and so on, adds to the weirdness," said Roman Khakimov, a PhD student who worked on the experiment.

    To successfully recreate the experiment, the team trapped a bunch of helium atoms in a suspended state known as a Bose-Einstein condensate, and then ejected them all until there was only a single atom left.

    This chosen atom was then dropped through a pair of laser beams, which made a grating pattern that acted as a crossroads that would scatter the path of the atom, much like a solid grating would scatter light.

    They then randomly added a second grating that recombined the paths, but only after the atom had already passed the first grating.

    When this second grating was added, it led to constructive or destructive interference, which is what you'd expect if the atom had travelled both paths, like a wave would. But when the second grating was not added, no interference was observed, as if the atom chose only one path.

    The fact that this second grating was only added after the atom passed through the first crossroads suggests that the atom hadn't yet determined its nature before being measured a second time.

    So if you believe that the atom did take a particular path or paths at the first crossroad, this means that a future measurement was affecting the atom's path, explained Truscott. "The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behaviour was brought into existence," he said.

    Although this all sounds incredibly weird, it's actually just a validation for the quantum theory that already governs the world of the very small. Using this theory, we've managed to develop things like LEDs, lasers and computer chips, but up until now, it's been hard to confirm that it actually works with a lovely, pure demonstration such as this one.

    The full results have been published in Nature Physics.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Similar matters have been discussed before, but since this paper was published only a few days ago, I'm assuming that it may be contributing something new - Science savvy members will know more.

    I remember reading before that the wave-particle duality has been demonstrated with atoms and possibly even molecules (although I don't remember where), so it's probably the "delayed choice" aspect which is contributing something "new" here.
    Last edited by hohoemi; 2nd June 2015 at 15:48.
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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    The seeing is the doing.

    Not only in physics, in psychics also.

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    I see through time, every day.

    It has never failed, not once. over 15,000 times.

    So .....the pedantic mundane idea of linear time and mundane 'literal' scientific reality gets absolutely ZERO play in my world.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Thank you for bringing this up, it's a very important topic. Since the points being discussed were not invented by you - please don't be offended as I criticize them.

    Science has done eveything it can to keep us from learning the truth about our reality, even to the extent of saying "Look it's wave! No, wait - it's a particle...Hey you know what...it's not even there until you look at it so you're gonna have to believe whatever me and my magic lamp (microscope) say because you can't look at it without us". Welcome to the Machine - life itself isn't allowed to exist unless the Machine can measure it.

    Since the dieties failed everybody so miserably, our most fundamental beliefs have come to be based on the behavior of light. That's what I'm calling 'The Machine' - any set of measures, tools or ideas (science) that separate, quantify and consume life/energy. The truth is - every discussion built upon some premise of "measuring light" is inherently flawed and I'll tell you how - unless they're working with true Light outside Earth's atmosphere - it cannot be called "Light".

    They use manufactured, reflected or diffracted light which is something else altogether. The only book on the subject that seems to have been written on the experiential qualities of light is called 'Optics' by Euclid and it's not available to me, but that's ok. You can learn pretty much everything you need to know by watching (seeing) the Universal pictures trailer - the one with the sunrise that never happens.

    I just got here, but I have a lot to say, and I need prompts like this to focus my attention. Please consider this whole science of micro/photo/flaky ideas the same way you'd consider a discussion about the attributes of evil spirits - they're only available to be 'seen' by a very select few (you must pay dearly, and you must trust that whatever you're looking at is, in fact what they say you're looking at) whereas true Light is all around us.
    Last edited by SeymourVandal; 3rd June 2015 at 17:31.

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    These experiments confirm what I already know... The select few in science, who are doing these experiments do not seem to have the ability to understand the implications of probabilities vs measurement... Manufactured light or refracted light are what science uses... You lost me... how does that make the experiments invalid?? We've made all sorts of observations, and applied what we've learned... why is this different?

    Conscious observation breaks superpostion... What is so difficult about that to understand? There are no such things as particles... Why is that hard to understand...

    my friend,, the 'select few' who have glimpsed this amazing truth are in the tens of millions!! AND GROWING...

    I, personally think that this new paradigm is baby steps.. its not science that is keeping this from us... if folks are not willing to wrap their heads around these implications, , then why hide it... Science is practicly screaming it from the rooftops... We knew about this in Einsteins generation... the 20's...


    Physicality is a subset of a superset.. The atoms family does not pull ITSELF together!! Probability ends when a measurement is taken... ie,,, consciousness breaks superposition in whatever is being observed,,, (refracted light within the visible light spectrum is only an example,, the concept carries over to the whole of physical reality... )


    Sigh...


    Love to all...




    Quote Posted by SeymourVandal (here)
    Thank you for bringing this up, it's a very important topic. Since the points being discussed were not invented by you - please don't be offended as I criticize them.

    Science has done eveything it can to keep us from learning the truth about our reality, even to the extent of saying "Look it's wave! No, wait - it's a particle...Hey you know what...it's not even there until you look at it so you're gonna have to believe whatever me and my magic lamp (microscope) say because you can't look at it without us". Welcome to the Machine - life itself isn't allowed to exist unless the Machine can measure it.

    Since the dieties failed everybody so miserably, our most fundamental beliefs have come to be based on the behavior of light. That's what I'm calling 'The Machine' - any set of measures, tools or ideas (science) that separate, quantify and consume life/energy. The truth is - every discussion built upon some premise of "measuring light" is inherently flawed and I'll tell you how - unless they're working with true Light outside Earth's atmosphere - it cannot be called "Light".

    They use manufactured, reflected or diffracted light which is something else altogether. The only book on the subject that seems to have been written on the experiential qualities of light is called 'Optics' by Euclid and it's not available to me, but that's ok. You can learn pretty much everything you need to know by watching (seeing) the Universal pictures trailer - the one with the sunrise that never happens.

    I just got here, but I have a lot to say, and I need prompts like this to focus my attention. Please consider this whole science of micro/photo/flaky ideas the same way you'd consider a discussion about the attributes of evil spirits - they're only available to be 'seen' by a very select few (you must pay dearly, and you must trust that whatever you're looking at is, in fact what they say you're looking at) whereas true Light is all around us.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    I was reading up on the latest quantum physics experiments with regards superposition.. In this article, it is explained that they do not use photons directly,, they are using a single helium atom.. light is used to isolate an atom, but the actual grated (double slit) experiment was successful using a single helium atom rather than light..

    refracted vs 'true' light does not come into play it seems...

    Once the atom 'decides' to be a particle or not,, (by measurement at the end of the atoms journey) it will become that particle (or wave) BEFORE the point of observation,,, as if it KNEW it WAS GOING TO BE observed.. A measurement that WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE FUTURE,, will determine wether or not it is a wave or particle BEFORE IT IS MEASURED...!!!!!!

    Wow.. Time traveling manifested realities,, creating and destroying itself each moment of observation!!!!

    It is worth the effort to wrap your brain around this... Each moment we observe of reality is NOT simply where light particles ended up bouncing to... On the contrary,, the act of measurement (observation) determines the path of the atom at its source!!! The probabilities and potentials react to conscious fields and physicality is 'created'..

    This is the cornerstone of the future of unlocking the latent potentials we have as a group,, as well as individuals. Science HAS PROVEN that consciousness creates physical reality...

    merrily Merrily Merrily Merrily
    jake
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    Science HAS PROVEN that consciousness creates physical reality...
    Jake I have no idea how you came to this conclusion... because quite frankly I was unable to understand your post... but don't worry, just my ignorance

    I am, however, able to say, with a lot of confidence based on experience in worlds above the physical, that consciousness definitely does not create physical reality(matter).

    It is, though, a fact that matter(physical reality) cannot exist without consciousness...because without consciousness there would be no one... nothing... to observe it.

    So what creates matter then? ....nothing does... because all the matter which makes up physical reality has always existed in our Cosmos... no one actually creates anything...but... it is thought which forms(creates?) the many forms which make up physical reality...and thought is the energy aspect of life.

    Thought(energy) is a consciousness expression...not consciousness per se.

    So consciousness is observing the very thing it is forming...using matter... by constructing it by thinking it into manifestation.

    So we could say, without fear of contradiction that the entire manifested Cosmos is a consciousness expression in various densities of matter.

    Everything that exists consists of 3 things...3 aspects... matter, consciousness and energy... these are the trinity of life… and they cannot be separated and no one of them can exist without the other two.

    These three aspects of life, in billions upon billions of permutations, of amounts, and configurations of each of these 3 aspects, form everything that exists... including humans and atoms etc...and the very core of who we are, a monad, is the basis of all forms... because we are each a primordial atom...matter in it's most basic state... which has grown in consciousness by observation.

    When and if you go OB next time, as you say you do, you can easily prove this… because attempting it in the physical needs some equipment which few have.


    In the emotional(astral) world… not the etheric world… you can think things into manifestation and then make them dissolve… I have done this many times to my great delight and you will be surprised what you can form with some of your thoughts.

    Now we should not get the impression that life is all that simple because there are, for example, Beings who just form the worlds and planets and solar systems for others to observe and grow their consciousness in...life is actually quite amazing when you just think about what it is...just here in this planet.

    Take care
    Ray
    Last edited by Finefeather; 18th June 2015 at 18:24.

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Jake I have no idea how you came to this conclusion...
    By following quantum physics experiments with regards superposition and the collapse of the wave function via conscious observation and measurement...


    Quote It is, though, a fact that matter(physical reality) cannot exist without consciousness...
    indeed,, and the latest experiments described in the articles linked,, describe how in physics terms...

    I must say that we may be splitting hairs here a bit.. If nothing exists without consciousness,, then stating that consciousness creates matter is absolutely valid.. In my thinking,, I separate the words 'reality' and 'physicality'.. I also never said HUMAN consciousness creates physicality,,, I simply said consciousness...

    I also never said that consciousness created the potential,, just the form in which it took...

    Physicality is a 'point of view'... Secondary to a point of observation... I would say that energy is secondary to consciousness as well,, but then we are splitting hairs again,,, a bit...

    If you insist that matter is part of the trinity of existence then surely you take interest in how that process occurs..

    I cannot say strongly enough that there is not just 'physical' vs 'non-physical',, but an entire spectrum of conscious-created realities,,, and physicality is subjective to the observer...

    I have been beyond physicality, beyond mind, beyond reality and have 'observed' that physicality is a mere thought...

    Something is telling me that we are agreeing more than disagreeing....

    Also,, I woke up and became lucid in this dream... Dreams can seem very physical, no? Have you ever touched something solid in a dream? How? Are there particles and/or matter in your dreams? Or was it thought form manifestation that your mind Made physical and solid... You certainly did not perceive it as anything but Physical while still within the dream...

    Still within the dream, still within the dream,,,

    Merrily Merrily Merrily Merrily...
    jake
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    Science HAS PROVEN that consciousness creates physical reality...
    It has not to me, proven such things. The way one particle or atom behaves could be very different to how an arrangement such as the universe behaves...

    Observation affecting atoms does not mean observation controls what that atom is. There is a structure to reality beyond consciousness IMHO. It is possible this universe had zero life in it to observe anything for some time in it's early stages. In that case the natural laws of the universe aka universal mechanics are creating a universe of matter.

    I think jumping to the deep end of things and saying reality is an illusion or isn't real based on a few science theories may not be sound thinking.

    I was a fan of quantum physics until it started making people say nothing is real.

    I think it can be said whatever atoms are, they are something before we observe them. So we do not create them with our minds IMO. Reality has structure to it that I believe exists regardless of an observer. These types of experiments do not prove "everything" behaves in the same way as the atom/particles/etc observed.

    I am sure a litany of people will disagree with me though... I am kind of a sour puss about quantum physics ever since a bunch of people deny anything as real now...
    Last edited by Omni; 18th June 2015 at 22:48. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Yes imagine that , on any level .. your measurement determines nature of reality . It's not more than relativity in fact , with its core implications .

    As if you need experiment to prove this is true, all that's required is pure logic . Universe may have countless possibilities on how to count and measure phenomena ,

    unless you're religious determinist , you may understand we choose one 'set' of numbers , one version of maths ..at least temporarily and for long time .. that is still very deterministic in its nature ..bound to particular stellar system , planet and point of observation .

    Other people who live on another planet , far enough from this version of Universe had probably chosen another version, 'set' of maths .

    Now what's true for both of them ... is their relativism . It's what's called 'emptiness' of inherent existence in buddhist philosophy . Existence on any level is determined both quantitatively and qualitatively , as particular quantum information field ..

    that btw reflects in you on minutest level , as your bio-feedback between you as biological entity and physical environment surrounding you , as your awareness of elements , various fundamental forces of nature, physical laws , the numbers in them ..mirror numbers in you ..



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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Posted by Omniverse (here)
    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    Science HAS PROVEN that consciousness creates physical reality...
    There is a structure to reality beyond consciousness IMHO. It is possible this universe had zero life in it to observe anything for some time in it's early stages. In that case the natural laws of the universe aka universal mechanics are creating a universe of matter... Reality has structure to it that I believe exists regardless of an observer.
    I have to respectfully disagree... it's not that reality doesn't exist without consciousness... it's that reality and consciousness are one in the same thing, IMHO.

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    You see, I was careful not to confuse the words 'physicality' and 'reality'.. And I did not use the word 'illusion'... Though illusory is a good word... Reality is subjective to the observer,, physical or not.. Physicality is a point of view,, you can interpret everything as physical if you like.. Though physicality itself (particles) have been shown to NOT exist... So one can ALSO choose not to buy into physicality, and recognize that it is a Belief, rather than a known...

    How about this, for those who cling to twigs and rocks,,, (a reference to a short story by Richard Bach) ,,,

    Time does not exist without consciousness nor does physical matter nor does energy... All of those are pulled into 'existence' by consciousness... No part of the atoms family adhere to one another as an energetic system without conscious observation/measurement...

    Consciousness is the glue that keeps it together.. We did experiments in the 20's that showed this... here we are nearly 100 years later still insisting that particles exist... Is the earth flat? No? Some folks BELIEVE that it is... Some folks still BELIEVE that physicality is the way of things... Has anyone ever heard that infinite love is the answer?? Love cannot be measured, nor does it require physicality to exist...

    My 'being' cannot be measured, nor does it require particles to exist...

    I hope I didn't rub anyone wrong with my 'clinging to the twigs and rocks' comment... The following, very short story sums it up quite nicely... if one clings to beliefs,, one will never even SEE a potential,, much less embrace it as a known...

    Quote Letting go... by Richard Bach... Once there lived a village of creatures along the bottom of a great crystal river. The current of the river swept silently over them all -- young and old, rich and poor, good and evil -- the current going its own way, knowing only its own crystal self.
    Each creature in its own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current was what each had learned from birth.

    But one creature said at last, "I am tired of clinging. Though I cannot see it with my eyes, I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go, and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom."

    The other creatures laughed and said, "Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed against the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!"

    But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks.

    Yet in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.

    And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried, "See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the messiah, come to save us all!"

    And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more messiah than you. The river delights to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Our true work is this voyage, this adventure."

    But they cried the more, "Savior!" all the while clinging to the rocks, and when they looked again he was gone, and they were left alone making legends of a savior.

     -- from Illusions by Richard Bach
    Everything that I have said, I found out for myself... The quantum physics experiments are much more exciting to me than ever...

    The Particle behaves as if it knew it was GOING TO BE observed,, and therefore CHANGED ITS BEHAVIOR (collapsed into a particle) BEFORE IT WAS OBSERVED.... lolololololol... Wrap yer brain around that!!!

    Either Matter is a complete illusion or OBSERVATION is the illusion,, and nothing exists at all...

    Take some time to consider the time traveling particles if you must... they are a byproduct of a question, an observation,,, they don't actually exist,,, only as much as WE engage them.... otherwise,,, NOTHING....

    Getting over your clinging to physicality is inevitable, , no? Where you gonna go when you find yourself without a physicality to cling to? Perhaps another round of clinging?

    The particle physics age is over... The elite know it,, ETs have known for longo time... it is the box we cannot escape from... The trap...


    Jake
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    If nothing exists without consciousness,, then stating that consciousness creates matter is absolutely valid.. In my thinking,, I separate the words 'reality' and 'physicality'.. I also never said HUMAN consciousness creates physicality,,, I simply said consciousness...
    Jake
    Nothing exists without consciousness because consciousness is awareness or perception... if you are not conscious then nothing exists for the unconscious person... but that does not mean something is not out there.

    We cannot create an object/matter just by been aware... it's needs to have been 'formed' in some 'dimension' ... which we are capable of perceiving in... for anyone to be aware of it.

    It's a bit like saying that if we close our eyes then nothing exists... but try walking around until you bump into a wall... which of course is another one of our 5 senses which make us aware... consciousness.

    Consciousness is only possible once matter is perceived in some state.
    This is exactly why some people can see the etheric world and others cannot... their consciousness is more refined... and that does not mean that up until a person is objectively conscious of the etheric world, that it does not exist.

    You cannot separate 'reality' and 'physicality' because physicality is just a dimension of reality... other realities are emotional and mental and higher.

    There is also no difference between HUMAN consciousness and consciousness... except the 'amount' that each observer is capable of been aware of... you could even call this the amount of enlightenment.

    Take care
    Ray
    Last edited by Finefeather; 19th June 2015 at 13:17.

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    That's an interesting concept, Bashar has also said everything already exists....but how can this be proven if life still exists when one is asleep?
    How can someone come to this conclusion?

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    That's an interesting concept, Bashar has also said everything already exists....but how can this be proven if life still exists when one is asleep?
    How can someone come to this conclusion?
    Everything does not exist already because if it did then that concept/idea would violate man's free will... so Bashar is wrong... if that is exactly what he said.
    There is a big difference between concepts/ideas and 'things'... and just because humans at their low level have not uncovered a 'thing' yet does not mean it does not already exist in a conceptual state in a higher world.

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    I haven't read the entire thread yet but I would like to ask a question to anyone. I heard a man say that in "free space" you cannot see the stars or even the sun. You can only see them from the atmosphere of the planet. He said you can see planets and moons, but not stars or the sun. I have also heard that this reality is a construct similar to a virtual created holographic reality.

    Next, I go to NASA's website to see their pictures of Pluto and a moon going around it taken by one of their satellites,New Horizons. They talk about "the speed of light" and how it took 9 years for that ship to get there, blah blah blah. I am asking this: Does NASA lie about EVERYTHING?

    My reasoning is: IF we indeed have a secret space program, IF indeed there are aliens among us (and i believe their are) and "THE COMPANY STORE" has a slave colony on Mars, then if I believe any of that, I am going to have to conclude that NASA lies about EVERYTHING and science and religion as we know it is a total scam.

    AND.. I notice their picture of Pluto is just the planet and the moon going around it. NO STARS ANYWHERE! I'm sure they will come up with an explanation for that "anomaly."

    http://www.nasa.gov/nh/pluto-charon-surfaces-in-color

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    According to Carmody here or here the phenomenon of pictures from space with no stars is a result of the contrast range capacity of current cameras.

    There are threads dedicated to that [here] and [here] if want to discuss the topic further, in case you missed them before. (I'm not trying to scare you of, just not sure why you decided to post your question on this particular thread since I don't see the connection to the original topic.)
    Last edited by hohoemi; 9th July 2015 at 18:52. Reason: changed wording since it sounded unfriendly
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    Both paths lead nowhere; but one makes for a joyful journey; the other will make you curse your life. - Don Juan

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    Default Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it - Wheeler's delayed-choice gedanken experiment with a single atom

    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    That's an interesting concept, Bashar has also said everything already exists....but how can this be proven if life still exists when one is asleep?
    How can someone come to this conclusion?
    Everything does not exist already because if it did then that concept/idea would violate man's free will... so Bashar is wrong... if that is exactly what he said.
    There is a big difference between concepts/ideas and 'things'... and just because humans at their low level have not uncovered a 'thing' yet does not mean it does not already exist in a conceptual state in a higher world.
    Interesting.

    I would not be surprise if Bashar talked about time not existing at higher levels and therefore everthing exists, all at the same "time" in our perception. But I would have to listen to be sure.

    What is interesting is that about one year before I got pregnant, I clearly saw a baby blueprint suspended in the air (like 3D outlines). She was already in the conceptual state I bet!

    I never had a mother tell me they saw this.

    Just a little comment here from a gaga mom!

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    I believe Carmody 100% on those topics.... and many others.

    Quote Posted by hohoemi (here)
    According to Carmody here or here the phenomenon of pictures from space with no stars is a result of the contrast range capacity of current cameras.

    There are threads dedicated to that [here] and [here] if want to discuss the topic further, in case you missed them before. (I'm not trying to scare you of, just not sure why you decided to post your question on this particular thread since I don't see the connection to the original topic.)

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