The Reincarnation Trap

[Finefeather]

Posted by greybeard (here)
A thought that came to mind--dont know if its true.
Perhaps the reason that we don't recall past lives is that, whilst we are the same spirit but perhaps with a different personality.
Seems we may be female in one life time male in the next.
Different, cultures, different colours. different codes of behaviour.
Remembering a past life would not be helpful---and there are quite a lot of them so I hear.
For sure we don't have the same body.

Ch

Can you remember precisely what you did 10 years ago...30 years ago...at birth? ... never mind 100 years ago... humans cannot even get their history correct.

We also do not reincarnate immediately after 'death' we can spend up to 30 years or so living in the emotional(astral) world, where we 'die' again to that world...and there's still more to it... but we won't go there now.

In each incarnation we have a new mental, emotional and etheric envelope... a body is simply an organic 'tool' to house the stepped down version of the Self.
DNA of the human organism plays no role in our 'spiritual' growth or our consciousness evolution... DNA is not a cause... it is an effect of the state of the consciousness. DNA changes as our consciousness grows.

The reason why humans cannot remember past live's is simple:

All memories of our past history is 'stored' in a higher state or world called the Causal World and no human can access this whilst not having reached causal consciousness yet... and if you have reached this level you would know it and no longer be a human.

People, like psychologist, and especially people like Dolores Cannon... who believe they have regressed people or themselves back in time to see their past lives are deluded by their own imaginative, subjective mental constructions.

They have been no further than the astral worlds of illusion.

Every incarnation is an attempt at working on some undeveloped state of our evolutionary status... and evolution is a consciousness excercise.

Even if we knew our past lives it would not necessarily help us in our current life.

What everyone does bring with them each time is their characters which have developed over thousands of incarnation... this is what makes us all so different and all so special... but even this can be ruined by a life of bad reaping.

We also bring trauma and other habits and talents with us in the form of Skandhas which are emotional and mental material forms...

Karma is a law of life... and it's source and workings are at an atomic/vibration level which when stepped down include things like good and bad actions and thoughts.

'Ascending' to the next level of Being above the Human level requires 'vibrational' harmony with this higher world... and this harmonisation which allows access is controlled and regulated by our actions and thoughts.

Ray

PS: and yes we have all been males and females in other lives.
One of the major reasons for homosexuality... in both male and female... is a long series of female or male incarnations... and when suddenly the opposite gender is chosen, confusion sets in and the life becomes ruined by been unable to accept the gender they are in.

[Rich]

Posted by loveoflife (here)
I hear a lot of new age teachings on this thread.

Very few posts are on topic and i doubt that many posters have investigated the topic. There is also much defense of traditional belief systems and conjecture.

loveoflife, I do not want to impose on anyone if you say I should not post here that is fine with me,
I don't usually post on threads like this at all because I respect people's beliefs.
This thread kinda snowballed.

If we hold on to a false belief then all we say is ''love does not exist''.
Love can either be all inclusive or not exist at all.

[darthtoaster]

Deleted ...

[Finefeather]

Posted by darthtoaster (here)
If the above statement was true, then it would just be a sort of blunt affront to another person, in this case Dolores Cannon and even Bill Ryan. See the YouTube link to see Bill speaking of his past lives. Good interview.

I have not viewed this video and because Bill Ryan is not a psychologist and not a past life regression therapist it would exclude him in the statement I made. For the rest I stand by what I say. You are attempting to place me in a corner which does not exist.

Posted by darthtoaster (here)
The rest time in the light can vary. There's an Indian girl who came back a mere eight years after her death. On the other hand I came back 49 years after my previous death. This is my first life in the United States. If one does not go into the light, reincarnation time can vary widely, spanning hundreds of years. I've seen many of these individuals. One is a man named Solomon Spaulding, author of a book which eventually became the Book of Mormon.

I think you might be a bit pedantic... are you not?
It was not my intention in my post to wade through the many exceptions and claims by people as to the period between their last incarnation... there are many who come back quickly for some reason, but this is not the norm.

If you could realise that according to some ancient writings there is estimated to be some 60 Billion monads/Selves/Souls attached to the earth planet cycle of incarnation... then based on the current approximate 7 billion...and rough livespan... etc... it would work out to be somewhere like 100 years or so between lives... everyone needs to have equal opportunity... you cannot hog a body

I am trying to give a broad idea of a reality which has many ifs and buts... between each line I write I could write a book.

Posted by darthtoaster (here)
Here's my story. As a child, I would awake every night shortly after going to sleep in terror from a nightmare - I was falling toward the ground, and would awake at impact. This went on for years. I went on to be a fighter pilot for 15 years in the US military. My birth date is April 5, 1967. Here is my picture.

This is the previous life. His name is Wilhelm Frankl. He was a German fighter pilot in WWI. He died April 8, 1918. He died by falling to his death from his aircraft when he over G'd and tore the wings off. Here's the picture.

Whilst I am not directly accusing you of false reporting... you will be amazed how many people have stood in front of me in my life and claimed to be some famous person who we can easily read about on the internet... like Wilhelm Frankl.

Also the fact that you woke up at night falling to the ground... which is a common occurrence from an out of body episode...does not mean much... because I am sure there were thousand of pilots in the First and Second wars that fell to their deaths from an aircraft, not to mention other aircrafts... and other reasons for falling to their 'death' from some height.
So it makes me very wary when you say you are now a pilot again... this would IMO be unusual... not out of the question... but unusual for reasons I do not want to go into now, because it may take a while.

Posted by darthtoaster (here)
Ray ... I believe much of what you say are deliberate attacks by yourself on the veracity of what Bill and others are on the record speaking about and much of what you say is not factual and is in my opinion, deliberate. I believe you should consider telling the truth, which I know you are aware of. To deliberately mislead is not good for your karma ...

As I said above you have... for your own reasons and agenda...places Bill into an equation which I clearly did not. Even so... bringing Bill's name up does not deter me and if your intention was that I should be intimidated by including his name where it clearly does not belong... then you should be the one who should be considering deliberate intention.

I am not easily intimidated... and I am more than aware of the laws of cause and effect.

Ray


PS: There are many people who have claimed to be Joan of arc an other famous historical people...
Everyone wants to be famous... the ego is a wonderful beast.

[darthtoaster]

Your words Ray, again.

"People, like psychologist, and especially people like Dolores Cannon... who believe they have regressed people or themselves back in time to see their past lives are deluded by their own imaginative, subjective mental constructions"

Bill is on record in the video I posted as having investigated his own past lives. He gives a significant amount of detail about that. It is not coincidence that your statement directy attacks his words, on record. You're not the only one I've encountered recently who is trying to diminish his credibility. I have no problem countering these falsehoods with actual information.

I am a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, 1989. My name is David Loveless. Squadron 19. Look it up.

Graduate pilot training Reese AFB, Texas, 1990. Now closed.

Lead in Fighter Training (LIFT), Holloman AFB, New Mexico. 1990

F-111 training (RTU), Cannon AFB, New Mexico. 1991

I have flown F-111G, F-111E, F-111F, EF-111A (Instructor) and A-10 (Instructor). I now own a truck and am an independent contractor.

I stand by my words. I back them up with actual information. You attempted to marginalize Dolores Cannon directly and Bill as well, indirectly. That's a pretty standard approach I have found.

[Ted]

It seems to me that if we truly have free will, we can do what we want. I have no intention of coming back.
I feel "cured" of this reality. I'm not claiming to be spiritually advanced, but there has to be an alternative to this meat grinder in order to get to where we want to be.
I can't think of a day recently which I haven't thought about getting out of this place. This world holds no attraction for me, I don't like it here. Why would I want to come back?
Forced reincarnation? Who is forcing us? I want to have a little chat with whomever this is.
There's got to be a loophole somewhere.

[Finefeather]

Posted by darthtoaster (here)
Your words Ray, again.

"People, like psychologist, and especially people like Dolores Cannon... who believe they have regressed people or themselves back in time to see their past lives are deluded by their own imaginative, subjective mental constructions"

Bill is on record in the video I posted as having investigated his own past lives. He gives a significant amount of detail about that. It is not coincidence that your statement directy attacks his words, on record. You're not the only one I've encountered recently who is trying to diminish his credibility. I have no problem countering these falsehoods with actual information.

I am a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, 1989. My name is David Loveless. Squadron 19. Look it up.

Graduate pilot training Reese AFB, Texas, 1990. Now closed.

Lead in Fighter Training (LIFT), Holloman AFB, New Mexico. 1990

F-111 training (RTU), Cannon AFB, New Mexico. 1991

I have flown F-111G, F-111E, F-111F, EF-111A (Instructor) and A-10 (Instructor). I now own a truck and am an independent contractor.

I stand by my words. I back them up with actual information. You attempted to marginalize Dolores Cannon directly and Bill as well, indirectly. That's a pretty standard approach I have found.

No where did I even remotely question or judge your current life achievements... and well done to you for achieving them.

I said that it is unusual that someone comes back to the same vocation... which means I was questioning your previous life claims... not your current life.

You are making up the story about me attacking Bill and I suggest you re read my post.
Yes I clearly mentioned Dolores Cannon and I clearly marginalized her work because I know it is false because it does not concur with reality.

Ray

[Finefeather]

Posted by Ted (here)
It seems to me that if we truly have free will, we can do what we want. I have no intention of coming back.
I feel "cured" of this reality. I'm not claiming to be spiritually advanced, but there has to be an alternative to this meat grinder in order to get to where we want to be.
I can't think of a day recently which I haven't thought about getting out of this place. This world holds no attraction for me, I don't like it here. Why would I want to come back?
Forced reincarnation? Who is forcing us? I want to have a little chat with whomever this is.
There's got to be a loophole somewhere.

If everyone tried to find out what the reason for their incarnation was, they would get on with the job of making the best of their life.

The true Self is doing the 'forcing'... because the true Self who knows whats good for you is in charge... Luckily...else you would be coming back for ever.
There are also guides known as Augoeides who assist us in our choices of incarnation.

Most humans have this mistaken idea that they are some super Being who is been forced to incarnate... nothing is further from the truth.
Humans are ignorant of reality and actually know only a fraction of what really is taking place in life... yet they think they know it all.

The sooner we can realise just how little we know and try to live life in a harmonised manner with others the sooner we will find out what life is actually about.

Ray

[Ted]

If everyone tried to find out what the reason for their incarnation was, they would get on with the job of making the best of their life.

The true Self is doing the 'forcing'... because the true Self who knows whats good for you is in charge... Luckily...else you would be coming back for ever.
There are also guides known as Augoeides who assist us in our choices of incarnation.

Most humans have this mistaken idea that they are some super Being who is been forced to incarnate... nothing is further from the truth.
Humans are ignorant of reality and actually know only a fraction of what really is taking place in life... yet they think they know it all.

The sooner we can realise just how little we know and try to live life in a harmonised manner with others the sooner we will find out what life is actually about.

Ray

I've spent the better part of my life trying to understand just what I'm doing here. I've studied eastern religion extensively, and its views on reincarnation. I am very familiar with the concept.
I have no illusions that I am some super being, and don't claim to really know much of anything. I do know that this world gives me the willies, and I would rather exist somewhere that doesn't. My inner sense of "fight or flight" is strongly leaning towards the latter.
I don't know if I want to harmonize with the insane asylum either. I'd rather be less sensitive to the collective conscientiousness so I could have some peace and quiet. The pervasive attitude of greed, fear and violence gets wearing after a while. Maybe I'm just getting old and bitter...

[Finefeather]

Ted...
I think there are many that would agree with you that the world is very much like an asylum ...

Life ultimately is about collective unity and love and if you feel repulsed by it it would seem to me that you need to try to form a group of people who have the same interests as you, and from there go out and attempt service to others, so that you can reunite yourself with life's purpose.

Certainly it is only you who can decide on your next step forward and maybe you could get some advice closer to you...but as this is not a thread dealing with self help... It would be off topic to spend too much time with this.

Take care and much love
Ray

[darthtoaster]

"Humans are ignorant of reality and actually know only a fraction of what really is taking place in life... yet they think they know it all."

It is true that we endure a memory wipe upon re-entry. We didn't come in here uninformed though. The memory wipe allows a fresh start, nothing more. We are not ignorant beings. Our potential is not limited. We are not limited. Such debilitating words and thought patterns do not assist anyone and only cause roadblocks to progress, seeking to make us dependent on others. There is injustice here, and many have specifically chosen to enter areas by which they can help bring about change. Most choose to remain with family.

Here is something to consider. The power of love. Unconditional (which does not mean we allow others to trample upon others or steer in false directions).

The process begins, generally, with disgust. The eyes are opened. The mind accurately perceives the graft and corruption, the robotic behavior, the injustice and most especially the pain. Over time an individual who keeps looking will become less a participant and more an observer. They will remove their inputs to the power of the system. And then one day out of nowhere, they will truly see - and they will have ultimate compassion for their brothers and sisters. And you're out ... enabled to effect change from a much more advantageous position. A truly loving being, who gets it.

Just the way it is, no condemnation required. No mountain of karma to work off from apeman days, none of that. The simple realization of the above is all that's needed. And you do it all on your own. You ... are ... powerful.

[Wind]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
PS: and yes we have all been males and females in other lives.
One of the major reasons for homosexuality... in both male and female... is a long series of female or male incarnations... and when suddenly the opposite gender is chosen, confusion sets in and the life becomes ruined by been unable to accept the gender they are in.

Hi Ray,

I always read your posts with interest and most of the time agree, although not always 100 %. However, when it comes to homosexuality I just have to add my thoughts. I don't think their lives are "ruined" due to their attraction towards the same gender, it's just that society puts so much pressure and guilt on those people so that can actually ruin their lives if the can not accept themselves as who they are and the emotions they have, because not everyone can sympathize because the don't have enough wisdom to understand. When it comes to society and people, some places are seriously lacking in empathy. For instance in Russia "unwanted" people actually persecuted in horrible ways, that also happened in Nazi Germany, but just to different kind of people and it was even more systematic and horrible due to man's ignorace and hatred.

I don't think that persons like that have confused souls, they chose their lives with those experiences so that they could grow more through hardships. The soul has no gender, but as persons we are attracted towards different places and people.

Everyone has their lessons to solve in this current life, they are just different kind of lessons. Nothing in the creation happens by chance.

[Finefeather]

Posted by Wind (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
PS: and yes we have all been males and females in other lives.
One of the major reasons for homosexuality... in both male and female... is a long series of female or male incarnations... and when suddenly the opposite gender is chosen, confusion sets in and the life becomes ruined by been unable to accept the gender they are in.

Hi Ray,

I always read your posts with interest and most of the time agree, although not always 100 %. However, when it comes to homosexuality I just have to add my thoughts. I don't think their lives are "ruined" due to their attraction towards the same gender, it's just that society puts so much pressure and guilt on those people so that can actually ruin their lives if the can not accept themselves as who they are and the emotions they have, because not everyone can sympathize because the don't have enough wisdom to understand. When it comes to society and people, some places are seriously lacking in empathy. For instance in Russia "unwanted" people actually persecuted in horrible ways, that also happened in Nazi Germany, but just to different kind of people and it was even more systematic and horrible due to man's ignorace and hatred.

I don't think that persons like that have confused souls, they chose their lives with those experiences so that they could grow more through hardships. The soul has no gender, but as persons we are attracted towards different places and people.

Everyone has their lessons to solve in this current life, they are just different kind of lessons. Nothing in the creation happens by chance.

Hi Wind
I do not want to spend too much time because this might be off topic... but it does concern reincarnation.

I have a brother in law who is gay...Jean... and we also have quite a few close gay friends who are in our family circle... 2 who are actually officially married and even have adopted children... we love them very much.

We have had many hours of chats and discussions together and they all have said that in some point in their lives they were confused and often lonely...

I specifically wanted to mention 'ruined' because there are many many cases where some have undergone surgical gender change which can never really be equivalent to an actual body of the gender they long to be in... at best it is a compromise.

These have spent years and years of wasted time trying to be the opposite gender when naturally they were meant to be what they were born to be... many have been confused and undercover all their lives.

It is only recently that gay rights has managed, to some extent, to make this condition more widely known and accepted by many... although not by many who preach love of humanity.

In my understanding no one is born to be homosexual/gay/lesbian to learn a lesson by it... it is one of life's anomalies... it is an effect of mindset... and it is most certainly against logical and natural norms... at best it is a dis-ease... and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that anal sex is abnormal when sex is primarily a reproduction tool for allowing 'souls' to occupy bodies for the purposes of consciousness growth.

There are many things involved here... which include chakra imbalance, skandha properties and a host of other reasons for turning to, or becoming homosexuality.
Life is not perfect... we can see this in nature in the plant and animal kingdom, as well as in the defects which some humans are born with.

We could spend hours debating these issues and never agree with one another because, in itself, it is a foreign activity in the human kingdom... and the notable thing is that it is even found in the animal kingdom which gives us the best clue that it might be related to sacral chakra sexual energy imbalance.

In my opinion there are a few things we should accept... however:

Everyone has a right to life.

Everyone has a right to be who or what they desire provided it does not encroach on the equal rights of others.

Unconditional love sees no error in what another human does because it is very possible that what some consider to be 'bad' could very well have been what they got up to in a previous life.

This is why I am against gay rights, as a separate agenda... because true human rights should automatically include the rights of all human desires provided they do not interfere with that of another.

With love
Ray

[Finefeather]

Posted by darthtoaster (here)
We are not ignorant beings.
<....................................>
Just the way it is, no condemnation required. No mountain of karma to work off from apeman days, none of that.

Hi darthtoaster
Humans are certainly ignorant especially in respect of what world and life truth is all about.

Now I am obviously talking generally and not specifically about every human, because there are many who know.

If humans discarded all what they believe, and all what they have read, and all what they have heard, and all what they have guessed, and all what they have conjured up in their imaginations... and relied ONLY on what they actually know about truth and life and reality... they would in themselves know almost nothing useful... certainly nothing which even resembles reality... they would only be marginally more advanced that even the more advanced primates.

Knowing how to build a computer or a rocket ship that takes us to the moon has no significance when it comes to knowledge of what is required for us to advance to our true goal... which is life in the next higher world.
In this world computers and rocket ships are about as obsolete as the most obsolete object we can read about... because in this world we can move around to planets and other worlds by thought... we can build for ourselves things which humans have yet to even know is possible.

Lets just take your statement above... "No mountain of karma to work off from apeman days" and examine it.

Did you know that these apemen, you refer to, were actually us... living right now in the 21st century...20 million years ago... and we are still sitting around fighting and building machines to kill each with... we still use fire in many places to warm ourselves with... we still go out and hunt and kill animals for food with primitive weapons... many are still as barbaric today, as they were 20 million years ago... simply because they are ignorant of life's truths and ignorant of how this Cosmos really is constructed and what the real purpose of life is... so much has consciousness advanced since then... almost insignificant.

We praised ourselves and were amazed when, for example, some scientist declared that the atom has been discovered... when this is not even close to the real physical atom yet... never mind the fact that there are still 48 levels of manifested worlds which have higher levels of atomic matter than this mundane gross dense physical world.

The majority of humans have millions of years to go before they naturally and on their own begin to understand the true nature of life...and now we are in a debate as to whether reincarnation is a trap or not!... a debate which can never be concluded... especially when those who have the most to say about reincarnation been a trap, are ignorant of life. and who have themselves been caught up in the very trap they insist everyone else is caught up in.

The biggest trap is thinking reincarnation is a trap because the dark forces do not want us to grow beyond their boundaries of reach... so they can control the ignorant.

These forces known as our dark brothers...The Dark Lodge... are not some alien race with a crooked agenda... they are humans like you and I who have themselves trapped themselves in the dark astral worlds by their own doing...they are desperate to prevent us from advancing our real knowledge and so influence the weak and the gullible to write books and tell lies about reality... and you know... they are so good at it that even the very people who they have got to... have no idea they are been used as puppets for their agenda.

I may sound like a stuck record to many, but there is only one way of achieving our goal of reaching this higher world, were love and unity is shared by many... and that is by serving one another and forgetting about our own needs... because if we did this ALL will be considered and ALL will be cared for... and ALL can advance in consciousness and true love... it is that easy... yet we complicate it so with imaginative minds and fictitious science and egos which have only themselves in mind...separation.

Take care now
Ray

[greybeard]

All I can say for sure is that I am aware I exist.
This does not need conformation in any way.
I exist without the need of anything or anybody to confirm this.
What I am seems not to be affected in anyway by external events or thoughts, which come unasked, therefore not mine.
I cant prove that there is or is not a reincarnation trap---logic and rational seems to point to reincarnation being a process of evolution of consciousness.

Chris

[loveoflife]

Posted by Ted (here)
It seems to me that if we truly have free will, we can do what we want. I have no intention of coming back.
I feel "cured" of this reality. I'm not claiming to be spiritually advanced, but there has to be an alternative to this meat grinder in order to get to where we want to be.
I can't think of a day recently which I haven't thought about getting out of this place. This world holds no attraction for me, I don't like it here. Why would I want to come back?
Forced reincarnation? Who is forcing us? I want to have a little chat with whomever this is.
There's got to be a loophole somewhere.

We do have free will, it appears we are not forced to into being recycled, more like tricked through deceit and half truths. As above so below.

As with all things the way out of this situation (the loophole) is awareness, ignorance is basis of the control system. Knowledge is power.

I hear that those who seek to control us and our destiny have to inform us of what they are doing, because of free will they need our consent. To do this they use mediums like Hollywood and fiction, the truth is out there, its all published, its just finding in in a mountain of trivia.

The chat will come, though i would not believe what they say any more than i would trust the government.

[loveoflife]

My past lives also refer to my experiences in this incarnation. I can choose to create myself anew in every moment. I would like my fresh starts to be informed and based on experience. Having a memory wipe followed by by indoctrination into a false matrix reality is not a good start when unlearning all those lies takes the better part of a lifetime.

I would like my fresh starts to be informed and based on truth.

[Ted]

We do have free will, it appears we are not forced to into being recycled, more like tricked through deceit and half truths. As above so below.

Interesting point, which begs the question of what they use to entice souls into coming back. I can see promises of material gain, pleasures or affection working on many, but there has to be more. Perhaps the promise of rapid spiritual advancement is among their enticements.
I can see where knowledge and discernment would make for a difficult recruitment effort.

[greybeard]

From Transient information--all credit to them.
http://www.transients.info/


Carl Sagan: “Reincarnation Deserves Serious Study.” Years Later & The Results Are In

http://www.transients.info/2015/06/c...rves.html#more

Chris

[BF88]

I haven't read everyone's replies so perhaps something like this has already been mentioned. From a conversation with a 'trapper', inside one of the reincarnation centres or implant stations that is mentioned in the eye of ra by truman cash, I was informed that it is done so that you can build upon the success of your life here and what you have learned etc. This could include a number of things please don't assume success means financial success!
Now, according to this trapper (non physical insect looking thing) there are 'natural' beings of this planet that I am assuming will just be recycled upon physical death, perhaps until the time is right, something that is commonly known as ascension although don't take my word for it.
For others that are coming here from elsewhere (higher dimensional souls or beings however you want to describe it) with a particular objective in mind before incarnating physically the situation may be different. I can't honestly comment on the others what will or wont happen to them as I have no knowledge of it nor have I had any communication about them, it is merely an assumption.

I could also be insane / have been lied to. In what you may call a higher dimension, before coming here (way before physical incarnation) at a certain point I was told that everything beyond here is an illusion. Please interpret this as widely as possible as some of you will probably know vibrations made in the throat (language) as a form of communication is not the norm in such a situation.

I'm pretty sure it is that way for me though, having come from elsewhere as in a higher dimension / non physical place my objective for this (my first) incarnation is more or less done. This does mean though that I am just waiting to die!

Gatita, your belief system could have played a role in what you saw. These beings do this to make experiences like this easier for you.