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Thread: All Things Vegan!

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    Avalon Member Akasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Tesco just released an advert promoting it’s meat-free Cumberland sausages.....


    which shows a little girl telling her dad that she doesn’t want to eat, not meat but that highly contraversial, euphemism-free word, animals, anymore, the result being that her dad simply puts vegan sausages in his sausage casserole from then on - everyone happy?

    Oh no! Not the UK’s National Farmers’ Union. They’ve been freaking out over it…..

    Quote .....The NFU has contacted Tesco to raise its objections with a new TV advert shown on 10 October 2019 which promotes a move towards a vegetarian diet which sees a child state, 'daddy I don’t want to eat animals anymore'. The advert is entitled The Carl's 'All Change' Casserole advert, which is part of Tesco love stories.
    NFU President Minette Batters has this morning written to Tesco to outline our members' significant concerns with the language used within the advert and how it has caused significant distress for British Farmers. 
    The NFU believes that messaging such as this is demonising meat as a food group, which not only has negative connotations for farmers but also for the avocation of customers eating a healthy balanced diet.
    The NFU is clear that food and nutrition must be looked at as a whole, rather than food groups in isolation. Meat as a food group provides naturally rich in protein and are a good source of iron, zinc and essential vitamins. There are certain parts of the population, especially teenage girls, who are currently not eating sufficient quantities of these micro-nutrients to fulfil their dietary requirement.
    We believe it is vital that children do not establish misleading views of food groups, which may later affect their health and diets.....(full NFU letter to Tesco here)
    …..along with meat-loving media types such as Janet Street-Porter.


    So enjoy "Earthling" Ed Winters eloquently opining on what has quickly become a storm in a errr....casserole dish.

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!


    Joker star, Joaquin Phoenix explains why he is vegan:

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    This is the most compelling thing I have ever seen in convincing me to rid myself from all meat . just incredible https://gamechangersmovie.com/the-film/

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    This is the most compelling thing I have ever seen in convincing me to rid myself from all meat . just incredible https://gamechangersmovie.com/the-film/
    Great 🙏😊🙏

    Wish there is more genuine interest and transparent studies in the fields of human medicine and biology that would show results of plant based diet in people of various ages and conditions.
    The thing is, they would find much more about human metabolism and its almost miraculous abilities than they wish to admit.

    Today’s mainstream medicine is still taught with amount of prejudice and strangely enough, after surpassing almost all the “tabu” topics ever occurring in human bodies and minds, vegan and vegetarian diets still stand as an “alien dogma” with most western oriented doctors.
    They still keep telling people and their children that “we can’t keep healthy without animal proteins” and “most of our therapies won’t work precisely as they should if you are vegan/vegetarian”.



    It does not mean that people would stop eating meat globally, or from one day to another, I think we are far from there ..

    but at least the erroneous idea of dependence( other than psychological dependence) should not be fuelled by academic based professionals.

    It’s not dissimilar situation to that of “clean energy” vs fossil fuels, in my opinion.

    Fossil fuels are part of biggest industry on earth at the moment and so also readily available and people got used to using them,
    no matter how it smells and how many burn outs we breathe (and experience).

    Most “important items” in human life are habit based. It takes generations of people to admit mass misuse of almost anything,
    to rise the awareness, change technologies and ultimately, change habits.


    See the relationship between man and his meat is almost very intimate, archetypal relationship of embracing the “force” enabling us to withstand and fight with the Universe.
    It’s about “being the strongest animal here” and “one with good teeth”.

    It really is a primitive one and an offence to who we are in essence as entities -biological and spiritual.


    Once people liberate themselves from dependence on all kinds of substances, including sugars, diary products and all the rest of healthy fads- they will rediscover whole new sense of themselves and ways to navigate
    from primitive to civilised entities.
    There is no “one rule fits all” but first of all they should stop feeding people the lie of being dependant on animal proteins.

    My mum spent years in medical research both as medical professional and a patient and typical skeptic towards everything anomalous that the books did not approve but she also happened to experience the change and difference
    of not eating meat for many years and big relief to her condition if she could abstain from it.
    So did other people in the program and she had some of the best( detailed) laboratory monitoring done.
    In short, most people with metabolic issues such as diabetes, pancreatic and liver conditions, many autoimmunity disorders could be alleviated or prevented if people were not being misinformed.

    The hidden truth ? Many MDs within the programs do know about it but they would have or do have hard times convincing the rest of the academically indoctrinated community who go by the label “human = advanced animal , omnivore”.

    Admittedly they run the whole research to human biology as based on an idea, not based on true results.

    They also are their own guinea pigs as many MDs in the west are ill people at some point of their life, they’re subjected and subject themselves to the same treatments as their patients.
    Most aren’t more healthy or more disciplined than the rest
    and they better die for their taught habits ( “cause it is human) than try different avenue and get better without being animal as well.


    So cheers ... thanks to my own vegetarian approach to food since teenage I was spared what was shown to me much earlier ..
    the horror of human-animal treatments ...


    On the run 😆 and sorry for all the typos and wrong inclining apostrophes - it’s my phone keyboard doing it.

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    This is the most compelling thing I have ever seen in convincing me to rid myself from all meat . just incredible https://gamechangersmovie.com/the-film/
    Absolutely, Doug! I feel The Game Changers will be one of the most, if not the most significant documentary in the coming months/years in terms of changing the game.

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Only a few months ago I started the transition to a plant based diet. I thought it would be hard to do
    but was determined to go all the way. It was easier and more rewarding than I imagined.

    I'm not there fully yet so on occasion I have a small amount of chicken or lamb stew. Maybe I always will
    but not often. I feel better already, or it might be psychological. Either way I'll take it. Whatever makes
    me feel better is what I will choose every time.

    I was always since my thirties very conscious of nutrition and diet so did not have to make many changes.
    I read a few good books. "Forks over Knives" is a small easy to read one that I recommend. Another has a strange
    title, "How not to Die" by Michael Greger, M.D. (not your typical M.D.)

    Enjoy!
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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  13. Link to Post #787
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Only a few months ago I started the transition to a plant based diet. I thought it would be hard to do
    but was determined to go all the way. It was easier and more rewarding than I imagined.

    I'm not there fully yet so on occasion I have a small amount of chicken or lamb stew. Maybe I always will
    but not often. I feel better already, or it might be psychological. Either way I'll take it. Whatever makes
    me feel better is what I will choose every time.

    I was always since my thirties very conscious of nutrition and diet so did not have to make many changes.
    I read a few good books. "Forks over Knives" is a small easy to read one that I recommend. Another has a strange
    title, "How not to Die" by Michael Greger, M.D. (not your typical M.D.)

    Enjoy!
    Good going, East Sun!

    I've been moving along this trajectory for a while now also. First, I eliminated all animals feathered and furred. That felt really good and I actually didn't find it difficult at all.

    The toughest part for me was/has been eliminating seafood from my diet. I've always loved ocean fish, shellfish, lobster, crab, shrimp, and whatever other creatures came out of the sea. Eliminating dairy wasn't too hard, although, I do miss good cheese here and there.

    For me, it was 100% about not wanting to be part of the animal torture, fear, and slaughter wrongness. Health and wellness benefits along with a plant based diet being infinitely better for the planet are just icing on the cake (vegan, of course)!!
    "Love is the only engine of survival.." Leonard Cohen

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    I know there are a number of Jordan Peterson admirers on Avalon and with that in mind I felt it vital to highlight his (and his daughter's) latest publication, namely Our Carnivore Diet - How to Cure Depression and Disease With Meat Only.

    Yup, they went there - in print! (cue the law suits).



    Juxtaposed with the publication of this ludicrous collection of spiel is the fact that Jordan's wife has been fighting kidney cancer since being on the diet that he and his daughter have been fearlessly pioneering and proseletysing, but it doesn't stop there.

    The irony piles up even higher when one discovers that Peterson is currently in rehab' after trying to go cold turkey with the benzo's he was taking to combat his depression induced by his wife's diagnosis. And then he releases a book on combating disease and depression through a meat only diet???

    Seriously, you couln't make this sh!t up!

    Looks like Peterson, in stark contrast to the detritis he spouts on the subject of physical and mental health through diet (and pharmaceuticals), is currently undergoing an unavoidable appointment with reality.

    I just hope and pray his wife isn't sacrificed on the alter of his and his daughter's arrogance in the process.

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Dr. Neal Barnard on London Real, ladies and gentlemen.

    Neal literally wrote the book on reversing diabetes with a whole foods, plant-based diet.

    He is also the founder and president of PCRM, the Physicians' Committee for Responsible Medicine.

    This is one of the best interviews with Neal I've seen. Unfortunately the second half of the interview is behind a subscription wall (to London Real) but you can always get round that with a disposable email.

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Dr. Neal Barnard a natural teacher. He explains information in simple language.

    Additional Resources:
    Dr. Barnard's latest book is due out February 4, 2020 - “Your Body in Balance: The New Science of Food, Hormones, and Health”

    Summary:
    The shocking new science of how hormones are wreaking havoc on the body, and the delicious solution that improves health, reduces pain, and even helps to shed weight.

    Hidden in everyday foods are the causes of a surprising range of health problems: infertility, menstrual cramps, weight gain, hair loss, breast and prostate cancer, hot flashes, and much more. All of these conditions have one thing in common: they are fueled by hormones that are hiding in foods or are influenced by the foods we eat.


    Your Body in Balance provides step-by-step guidance for understanding what's at the root of your suffering-and what you can do to feel better fast. Few people realize that a simple food prescription can help you tackle all these and more by gently restoring your hormone balance, with benefits rivaling medications. Neal Barnard, MD, a leading authority on nutrition and health, offers insight into how dietary changes can alleviate years of stress, pain, and illness. What's more, he also provides delicious and easy-to-make hormone-balancing recipes, including:
    • Cauliflower Buffalo Chowder
    • Kung Pao Lettuce Wraps
    • Butternut Breakfast Tacos
    • Mediterranean Croquettes
    • Apple Pie Nachos
    • Brownie Batter Hummus

    Your Body in Balance gives new hope for people struggling with health issues. Thousands of people have already reclaimed their lives and their health through the strategic dietary changes described in this book. Whether you're looking to treat a specific ailment or are in search of better overall health, Dr. Neal Barnard provides an easy pathway toward pain relief, weight control, and a lifetime of good health.

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    Dr. Neal Barnard on London Real, ladies and gentlemen.
    UPDATE: Akasha, I see I've repeated some of your info.


    Last edited by RunningDeer; 30th October 2019 at 23:51.

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    So interesting! I did not realize hormones were in food, or think to realize food could mess with your hormones. The doctor had to cut back on one of my medications for messing with my hormones too much, I guess it's sort of like that.

    <------is a vegan uneducated about being a vegan.

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by RogueEllis (here)
    So interesting! I did not realize hormones were in food, or think to realize food could mess with your hormones. The doctor had to cut back on one of my medications for messing with my hormones too much, I guess it's sort of like that.

    <------is a vegan uneducated about being a vegan.
    How it works for me: Small changes over time nets lasting results.

    Some reasons why I eat whole foods 95%-98% of the time and fast occasionally:
    • create and nourish an environment so that is self-healing
    • cleans the body of environmental toxins
    • rid the old cells that are a drain on and age the body
    • live a quality life without pain and inflammation
    • vanity - still working on reverse aging
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 31st October 2019 at 07:18.

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by RogueEllis (here)
    So interesting! I did not realize hormones were in food, or think to realize food could mess with your hormones. The doctor had to cut back on one of my medications for messing with my hormones too much, I guess it's sort of like that.

    <------is a vegan uneducated about being a vegan.
    Some excerpts from Wiki’ on bovine growth hormone and its synthesised equivalent, rBST:

    Quote .....Bovine somatotropin or bovine somatotrophin (abbreviated bST and BST), or bovine growth hormone (BGH), is a peptide hormone produced by cows' pituitary glands. Like other hormones, it is produced in small quantities and is used in regulating metabolic processes.

    After the biotech company Genentech discovered and patented the gene for BST in the 1970s, it became possible to synthesize the hormone using recombinant DNA technology to create recombinant bovine somatotropin (rBST), recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH), or artificial growth hormone.

    Four large pharmaceutical companies, Monsanto, American Cyanamid, Eli Lilly, and Upjohn, developed commercial rBST products and submitted them to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for approval. Monsanto was the first firm to receive approval. Other countries (Mexico, Brazil, India, Russia, and at least ten others) also approved rBST for commercial use. Monsanto licensed Genentech's patent, and marketed their product as "Posilac". In October 2008, Monsanto sold this business, in full, to Eli Lilly and Company for $300 million plus additional consideration.

    rBST has not been allowed since at least 2000 on the market in Canada, or since 1990 in the European Union (EU). Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Israel, and Argentina have also banned the use of rBST.

    An EU report on the animal welfare effects of rBST states that its use often results in "severe and unnecessary pain, suffering and distress" for cows, and is "associated with serious mastitis, foot disorders and some reproductive problems".

    In 1937, the administration of BST was shown to increase the milk yield in lactating cows by preventing mammary cell death in dairy cattle. Until the 1980s, use of the compound was very limited in agriculture as the sole source of the hormone was from bovine carcasses. During this time, the knowledge of the structure and function of the hormone increased.

    With the advent of biotechnology, one of the pioneering biotech companies, Genentech, in 1981 succeeded in cloning and patenting the gene for BST Monsanto had been working along the same lines and struck a deal with Genentech in 1979 to license Genentech's patents and collaborate on development of a recombinant version of BST – a process on which Monsanto would invest $300 million. The two companies used genetic engineering to clone the BST gene into E. coli. The bacteria are grown in bioreactors, then broken up and separated from the rBST, which is purified to produce the injectable hormone. They published their first field trial results in 1981.

    Though approved by the FDA in 1993, rBST has been immersed in controversy since the early 1980s.[5] Part of the controversy concerns potential effects on animal health and human health.

    Animal health

    One meta-analysis published in 2003 suggested a negative impact of rBST's effects on bovine health. Findings suggested an average increase in milk output ranging from 11%–16%, an approximate 24% increase in the risk of clinical mastitis, a 40% reduction in fertility, and 55% increased risk of developing clinical signs of lameness.

    Human health

    The effects of rBGH on human health is an ongoing debate, in part due to the lack of conclusive evidence. A few of the most debated issues include:

    Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) is a hormone found in humans that is responsible for growth promotion, protein synthesis, and insulin actions over the lifecycle. The hormone has been shown to influence the growth of tumors in some studies and may be linked to the development of prostate, colorectal, breast, and other cancers.....

    ..... and a very brief summary from Wiki' regarding hormones in beef, poultry and pork:

    Quote .....current policy, in which all beef is allowed whether produced with hormones or genetically modified, US consumers now have to rely on their own judgment when buying goods. However, in a study done in 2002, 85% of respondents wanted mandatory labeling on beef produced with growth hormones.....Wiki (click here for full page)
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    In an industrial Welsh slaughterhouse, violations of animal welfare laws take place in front of a food standards agency inspector and instead of enforcing the law, he encourages them to continue the abuse (caution - graphic):

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    I know there are a number of Jordan Peterson admirers on Avalon and with that in mind I felt it vital to highlight his (and his daughter's) latest publication, namely Our Carnivore Diet - How to Cure Depression and Disease With Meat Only.

    Yup, they went there - in print! (cue the law suits).



    Juxtaposed with the publication of this ludicrous collection of spiel is the fact that Jordan's wife has been fighting kidney cancer since being on the diet that he and his daughter have been fearlessly pioneering and proseletysing, but it doesn't stop there.

    The irony piles up even higher when one discovers that Peterson is currently in rehab' after trying to go cold turkey with the benzo's he was taking to combat his depression induced by his wife's diagnosis. And then he releases a book on combating disease and depression through a meat only diet???

    Seriously, you couln't make this sh!t up!

    Looks like Peterson, in stark contrast to the detritis he spouts on the subject of physical and mental health through diet (and pharmaceuticals), is currently undergoing an unavoidable appointment with reality.

    I just hope and pray his wife isn't sacrificed on the alter of his and his daughter's arrogance in the process.



    his wife is one person with one ailment. so what? that would be like if i listed one well known vegan who had some terminal disease and then completely dismissed all of veganism as a result.

    as far as peterson in rehab, yes that's true. he's never been shy about admitting to taking certain drugs to curtail depression and anxiety. i think what he's doing is quite courageous.

    but you have to understand - he cannot eat anything but meat. veggies and fruits send him into deep depressions that last weeks and months. ditto his daughter. they both feel profoundly better on meats, but that doesn't mean that the diet is a panacea for all ailments and that they will never fall ill from time to time. nor does it mean that when they do, the diet should then be dismissed as bunk. Now that is arrogance.
    Last edited by Mike; 4th November 2019 at 20:21.

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  30. Link to Post #796
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    I know there are a number of Jordan Peterson admirers on Avalon and with that in mind I felt it vital to highlight his (and his daughter's) latest publication, namely Our Carnivore Diet - How to Cure Depression and Disease With Meat Only.

    Yup, they went there - in print! (cue the law suits).



    Juxtaposed with the publication of this ludicrous collection of spiel is the fact that Jordan's wife has been fighting kidney cancer since being on the diet that he and his daughter have been fearlessly pioneering and proseletysing, but it doesn't stop there.

    The irony piles up even higher when one discovers that Peterson is currently in rehab' after trying to go cold turkey with the benzo's he was taking to combat his depression induced by his wife's diagnosis. And then he releases a book on combating disease and depression through a meat only diet???

    Seriously, you couln't make this sh!t up!

    Looks like Peterson, in stark contrast to the detritis he spouts on the subject of physical and mental health through diet (and pharmaceuticals), is currently undergoing an unavoidable appointment with reality.

    I just hope and pray his wife isn't sacrificed on the alter of his and his daughter's arrogance in the process.



    his wife is one person with one ailment. so what? that would be like if i listed one well known vegan who had some terminal disease and then completely dismissed all of veganism as a result.

    as far as peterson in rehab, yes that's true. he's never been shy about admitting to taking certain drugs to curtail depression and anxiety. i think what he's doing is quite courageous.

    but you have to understand - he cannot eat anything but meat. veggies and fruits send him into deep depressions that last months and weeks. ditto his daughter. they both feel profoundly better on meats, but that doesn't mean that the diet is a panacea for all ailments and that they will never fall ill from time to time. nor does it mean that when they do, the diet should then be dismissed as bunk.
    You only have to read the title of his book and then observe his current predicament to recognize the utter nonsense at play here. Clearly the diet doesn't do what his book claims (and his wife was diagnosed after being on the carnivore diet btw). He was depressed while on fruit and veg' and he's still depressed when he's on 100% carcass. Maybe, just maybe his depression is a response to his reality. Trust me (or don't, I really don't care) but when I was going through it, I was written up for all manner of anti-psychotics, anti-depressants (over 17 over a period of 4 years), and you know what, none of them worked because at the end of the day I had to sort myself out instead of sticking the proverbial, pharmaceutical plaster over my life. And I did sort my self out. That's why when I hear pathetic whining junkies (cos effectively that's what he is) promoting SSRI s (and meat ) like they're the solution I know we have another lost soul on our hands.

    As I said in my previous post on the subject, cue the law suits, at which point his volume of med's consumption will no doubt go through the roof. Karma much? After all, consider all the Jordanites hanging on his very word who will be adopting this "diet" and, in turn, be increasing the already burgeoning animal suffering on this planet.
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    You're missing the point. And you will likely continue to, because you remain willfully blind to other realities besides your own.

    I *do* admire your stance on animal cruelty. Those videos you post horrify me too. I appreciate where youre coming from in that respect. I support you there.

    But...the diet does do what it claims *for some people*. You're much too anxious to dismiss it out of hand so you conveniently include distortion when it suits you and exclude the diets' near miraculous results for some people to further your agenda. I notice you left out all the miracles it provided for Peterson's daughter. Would you like me to list them for you here? Would it even matter?

    Jordan Peterson was nearly bed ridden for years prior to his mostly all meat diet. It has worked wonders for his anxiety and depression. Yes, he still has symptoms of anxiety and depression, but to point this out in favor of the miracle it *did* actually provide him is you being willfully obtuse.

    The diet almost completely remedied his daughter's autoimmune diseases, depression, and anxiety. Facts.

    His wife may have been diagnosed after she started the diet, but that doesn't mean the disease wasn't already in motion prior to her beginning the diet. These things are highly nuanced, and you can't make these reductionist arguments and expect to be taken seriously. Cancer is generally caused by years and years of poor habits.

    And even if the diet isn't suitable for her body, so what? It's clearly suitable for Peterson's, and his daughter's. Perhaps his wife would thrive on a vegan or vegetarian diet. But that doesn't prove anything except that some diets work for some people and don't work for others.

    Diet isn't religion. Dogmatism isn't useful, and it won't convert anyone either.
    Last edited by Mike; 5th November 2019 at 00:56.

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    Akasha (5th November 2019)

  34. Link to Post #798
    Avalon Member Akasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    You're missing the point. And you will likely continue to, because you remain willfully blind to other realities besides your own.

    I *do* admire your stance on animal cruelty. Those videos you post horrify me too. I appreciate where youre coming from in that respect. I support you there.

    But...the diet does do what it claims *for some people*. You're much too anxious to dismiss it out of hand so you conveniently include distortion when it suits you and exclude the diets' near miraculous results for some people to further your agenda. I notice you left out all the miracles it provided for Peterson's daughter. Would you like me to list them for you here? Would it even matter?

    Jordan Peterson was nearly bed ridden for years prior to his mostly all meat diet. It has worked wonders for his anxiety and depression. Yes, he still has symptoms of anxiety and depression, but to point this out in favor of the miracle it *did* actually provide him is you being willfully obtuse.

    The diet almost completely remedied his daughter's autoimmune diseases, depression, and anxiety. Facts.

    His wife may have been diagnosed after she started the diet, but that doesn't mean the disease wasn't already in motion prior to her beginning the diet. These things are highly nuanced, and you can't make these reductionist arguments and expect to be taken seriously. Cancer is generally caused by years and years of poor habits.

    And even if the diet isn't suitable for her body, so what? It's clearly suitable for Peterson's, and his daughter's. Perhaps his wife would thrive on a vegan or vegetarian diet. But that doesn't prove anything except that some diets work for some people and don't work for others.

    Diet isn't religion. Dogmatism isn't useful, and it won't convert anyone either.
    Time will tell.
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    Mikhaila Peterson's Lion Diet vs science with your host, Vegan Gains:

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Avalon Member Akasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Things Vegan!

    A truly inspirational speech at a recent UK slaughterhouse vigil:

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Ken (14th November 2019)

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