All Things Vegan!

[Joey]

One or two examples don't count for the whole.
I can, in return, show you examples of people admitting their vegan diet didn't work out.
I can go on and give you my arguments but I don't think we are going to convince eacht other.

Maybe I am wrong and if I am, that will be a good thing. Because I too would like to see that we as a species could live without the suffering of animals. The way we treat them is way out of proportion.

The body is an enormous complex unity which needs a big variety of minerals, vitamines, proteines, enzymes and bacteria to function properly.
I just thinks it is very hard to get this nutrition from plants alone.

It is your own choice and I will leave this discussion now. I just hope people are a bit warned, so that they study the different points of views in this case.
Going unprepared into Vegan mode does not seem a good decicsion to me (which ofcourse is also their own choice)

[Earthlink]

You know, I started recently calling some people Thing 1 Thing 2 and Thing 3.

Anyway, have a cow man!!!!!

And I am nowadays only going to do one thing, and one thing only, regarding people who 1) either DO NOT have the required education to comment competently, but comment anyway or 2) do have the proper education to comment competently on a subject, but who chose not to for ulterior motives.

I'm going to apply that which I wish to be applied to me. When I say or do something ridiculous, I expect you to ridicule me for it, otherwise, I will keep behaving in ridiculous manners, in public!!!

I'm giving you the very same consideration I expect back.

So, uh, yeah. See this cow here? Well, yes, it is safe to say that this cow has, as pictured, lots of protein. (protein, by the way, is not even a good way to describe nutrition. It is a buzzword utilized repeatedly by the mainscream media because of it's ability to confuse the issue, and you really shouldn't listen to anything the mainscream media EVER SAYS!!!)

All of the hair on a cow are strands of protein. So are its' horns and hooves. But you never eat the cow hair, do you? Once you cut into the flesh and muscles, there's not but complex carbohydrates. Stuff that has little nutritious value and is really hard to digest, to us.

Corn, by the way, if we were to use the mainscream media's analogy, has WAY more of this "protein" than cows.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Akasha (here)

Posted by Joey (here)
We don't have multiple stomachs either, like cows for example. So we can't eat the most grass or even vegetables raw. The cells of the plant are simply to hard for us to digest. We have a very simple digestive system, made for naturally processed foods.

Sorry Joey, but whilst you are correct in that we don't have multiple stomachs, the combined length of our small and large intestine is 7.5 meters (25 feet) making us more than capable of eating raw fruit and veggies. We might not be able to extract as much nutrition from grass as cows but it would still be less detrimental than the high animal fat diet Fallon et al promote.

Human digestive systems aren't great with most leaves specifically, notice we have only a few families of vegetable leaves, (your cabbage group (all cabbage related plants, including Kale, etc), and you have your lettuce group, but beyond those there isn't many leafy plants we can eat readily). However, our digestive systems are perfectly adapted for root and stalk vegetables and fruit, and, if you read some survival guides one would be surprised what in nature is actually edible, but few of these are actually leaves. Leaves can make good tea though! This is how we often take nutrients from leafy plants.

So, I do a gree we'll never be able to graze like a cow, but we have little issues with eating other types of non - leaf vegetation.

[Earthlink]

Your deduction is correct, when you look at a forest or natural landscape, 90 something percent of what you are looking at is food, to us.

[Joey]

Posted by Earthlink (here)
You know, I started recently calling some people Thing 1 Thing 2 and Thing 3.

Anyway, have a cow man!!!!!

And I am nowadays only going to do one thing, and one thing only, regarding people who 1) either DO NOT have the required education to comment competently, but comment anyway or 2) do have the proper education to comment competently on a subject, but who chose not to for ulterior motives.

Why are you showing this passive aggression to me? Like I am not capable of being involved in a discussion. At least, that's the way i interpreted this. If you mean something else, please explain yourself.

[Earthlink]

Well, facts are facts bro, I don't know what to tell you.

[Joey]

It says more about you, than about me.

[Earthlink]

... of course it does.

however, if this were facebook, I would have already blocked you.

conversations need to be allowed to go where they will. Not, where you will them to go, where they will themselves to go.

Furthermore, I think it is a safe assumption to assume that the people here ARE educated on the subject, and further, that every single counter-point you raised has already been flashed into all of our eyes, over and over and over again, by the mainscream media. Not only that, it has all been SCREAMED into our faces already at this point, by the mainscream media.

[Agape]

I have one big issue with this , why does 100g of your vegetarian salami that is essentially made from either wheat , soya or similar protein , equivalent to few loafs of bread costing three times the price of meet salami in the same amount .

Why did our health-bio shop turn to 'luxury goods' store where everything tiny piece of 'health' costs a fortune .

The previous generation said , they grew up on healthy vegetables after WWII and meat was scarce so they craved meat ,
now what can any of these poor people afford ? The 'bio-foods' ?

In Europe now , the economics turned so over complicated for last so many years that they're importing potatoes and milk from one country to another because it 'pays someones debts' ,
and own products are getting expensive . The industry does things to satisfy 'the big market' ,

that's run by corporations and people who do business and intend to keep doing it .


Can everyone get access to healthy food is essential question, in my opinion.

[Joey]

Thanks, you have just shown yourself.

I will leave this discussion and let you share your enthusiasm on this subject!
In the end, we have common interests and we are on the same path, just our interpretation is diffferent.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Earthlink (here)
Your deduction is correct, when you look at a forest or natural landscape, 90 something percent of what you are looking at is food, to us.

Even pine tree shoots! Just remove the bark and chew on the softer flesh underneath. I DL'd a survival guide from somewhere on here and it was dang impressive - I'll try to find and link to this thread.

[Napping]

Thanks for these threads Akasha and all those that contribute. They've been difficult to read for a meat lover like myself, because they've forced some difficult self reflection.

Before I go on, let's just clear up something that I hear regularly - that veganism is better for your health and that as a society our health is deteriorating. There's simply no evidence that eating a healthy balance of lean meat fruit and vegetables is bad for you and cutting out meat is any healthier. Surprisingly enough we're continuing to live longer than ever, largely due to modern and alternative medicine and better access and awareness of what constitutes a healthy diet. Yes, cancer appears to be more prominent and hormones injected on some foods and pesticides etc may be playing a part in this, however, life expectancy is double what it was a couple a hundred years ago, so I'd say we're on a continuem of improvement.

Back to why this topic makes me uncomfortable. It's because I genuinely can't watch or bare to think about what an animal is going through for it to end up on my plate. The very fact I feel this makes me wonder whether indeed I should be eating it then. That earthlings movie was horrific and if I can't manage to watch animals being killed for my consumption should I be eating it?

The way I have rationalised it so far is that I've been brought up around domestic animals that I attribute human emotions towards. Soft fluffy dogs and cats etc that I love. This has softened me, but Is this "natural" to regard animals in this fashion? If I was like good friends of mine who have grown up on farms and don't hesitate to snap a chooks head or put a bullet through a rabbit I probably could watch a documentary of watching animals slaughtered and not flinch.

Therefore, is it merely a case of conditioning? We're influenced largely by the enviroent we grow up in and perhaps any vegans are simply products of the domesticated environment our society has become???

Love to know your thoughts.

Cheers,

Matt

[Earthlink]

SUB-SI-DIZ-ATION!!! thats why. The beef and dairy bureau are two of the most HEAVILY subsidized institutions in America. The IMF announced a few days ago, that we are all giving 10 million dollars per hour, in subsidies to the oil companies, for another example, and the reality is that gasoline on it's own is NOT solvent. If they don't charge something like over 100 dollars per gallon, they would loose money, without the subsidies, of course, and the same is true of meat.

So, whether you're vegan or otherwise, you ARE paying for meat through all things taxation.

[Akasha]

Posted by Joey (here)
Thanks, you have just shown yourself.

I will leave this discussion and let you share your enthusiasm on this subject!
In the end, we have common interests and we are on the same path, just our interpretation is diffferent.

Joey, thanks for your input so far. Opposing view points are necessary to move a theme forward. I trust Earthlink can recognize that and channel his passion appropriately too. What do you say Earthlink? This thread has a lot of potential. Let's move it forward together.

[Earthlink]

mmmmmm kay

[Akasha]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Earthlink (here)
Your deduction is correct, when you look at a forest or natural landscape, 90 something percent of what you are looking at is food, to us.

Even pine tree shoots! Just remove the bark and chew on the softer flesh underneath. I DL'd a survival guide from somewhere on here and it was dang impressive - I'll try to find and link to this thread.

Hey D, thanks for the comments so far. Regarding what we can and can't eat, I watched a BBC doc' on youtube last night about a bunch of high risk people (diabetes, high blood pressure etc) who went on a raw veggie and fruit diet for, I think 10 days. the results on their health were dramatic, but the main reason I'm sharing it is because of their experience with a backwoodsman. He said that about 150 crops are commercially grown whereas there are some 20 000 plants worldwide that have edible parts (@25.30 but the whole doc' was worth a watch) -

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JXZ1dH7tJWw

[Earthlink]

I concur. We could be growing more than 40 types of potatoes, easily, but this capitalization monster we have created reduces everything, in time, to just 1.

[Agape]

It's not the food that is nutritious it's the love we eat , hope it was mentioned already ..but it's true .

Any civilisation may die from two types of starvation , and dying for lack of love , eating your neighbours .. is infinitely worse in my opinion .

That's why simple vegetarian diet is so important , if you can't do without meat you'll eat your spouse one day .


P.S. : That's a great vegan burger up there Akasha , I suppose the word vegan gets whole new meaning within the internet reality .. eyes eat but belly is empty.

[Earthlink]

Hey, I'm just going to throw this out here now. I'm having an ongoing conversation on f/b right now too, with the guy who filmed all those Chris Hedges video's lately. He and I are friends now, and, he has the same views and practices that I do regarding all the dissenting voices that do exist in our world. He blocks people there when he recognizes them as well, and I'm just saying, for the record, that that conversation is ... well, it's more like a love fest, than anything else. Everybody is on the same page, and it's truly like a garden being allowed to blossom, without having to constantly pay lip service to the least of us.

It's a beautiful thing it is.

And I'm going to now defend the portion of what I just said that may be construed as being "harsh" by repeating what I said above, and that is that yes, we are all bright, and we have all been around the block, as it were. I don't honestly think we need to re-examine everything small, each and every single time we begin a discussion. I think we have all heard what the mainscream media view is on this, and what their view is on just about everything else too.

So, right off the bat, this discussion began outside of their purview, and it began because someone here wanted to talk about what is NOT mainscream media. That's what I mean by allowing it to go where it will. You're just going to have to accept that we're not children, that we're not stupid, and that yes, we have in fact already heard it all.

That is all.

[Robin]

One thing that I would like to add to this thread is the distinction between eating a Raw Food diet of fruits and vegetables vs. a Cooked Food diet of fruits and vegetables.

Most people, including and especially scientists (DUH!), argue that humans need to eat cooked food because the process releases certain nutrients that our bodies need. Everywhere you look there are scholarly articles, books, and videos of scientists claiming that humans began cooking fruits and vegetables hundreds of thousands of years ago so we could incorporate more nutrients into our diet that a Raw Food diet could not provide.

Yes, this is true that cooking releases certain nutrients, but this is not overlooked by people who eat a Raw Food diet. People eat a Raw Food diet because living fruits and vegetables, that are not cooked, contain a life force not unlike what we call prana. When we cook fruits and vegetables, this life force dissipates and we do not take it into our bodies. This prana contains cosmic energy that allows seemingly miraculous living cells to divide and grow into beautiful aspects of Creation. Cooked foods no longer grow, because the cosmic energy and oxygen-rich content of the food is no longer present.

Just like everything else, our diet needs to be looked at both scientifically and spiritually. Scientists generally only focus on the material, what can be seen, but they overlook the spiritual. They only focus on physical nutrients, but they do not understand that all life has a form of prana. When we cook foods, we do not ingest this pure pranic energy that the universe provides in our food sources. It is all about vibration. Cooking food slows the vibration of living plants, and we do not get the highest value from the plants we eat when we cook them.

Raw Food Life Force Energy is a pretty good read.

Brigitte Mars is also a good resource.