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Thread: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    What proof is there that the HiB vaccine was the cause of of the decrease?
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    Australia Avalon Member Napping's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Outhere's meta-analysis is just one of several high quality studies showing zero link between autism and vaccines. The fact you guys keep bringing up Wakefield's small case series of serously questionable data as one of your (anti-vaccinators) flag ship arguments really speaks volumes. I've read through the other studies listed and they are so rife with poor research methods, confounders and leaps of faith that I no longer lose much sleep over my children's vaccination schedules.

    If you guys invested as much time looking at both sides of this issue and you knew how to interpret scientific studies there's simply no argument.

    A frustrating disagreement I have with many of you on this forum.

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    United States Avalon Member gripreaper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    The argument whether vaccines work or don't work, is not corroborated. I am not looking at their efficacy, I am looking at what is in them.

    Vaccines contain live virus, bovine sera or other animal sera, Thimerosal (MERCURY), casein and gelatin, phosphate, formaldehyde, ammonium sulfate, washed sheep red blood cells, glycerol, sodium chloride, porcine (PIG) pancreatic hydrolsate, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, hydrolized gelatin, polio virus, phenoxyethanol, neomycin, streptomycin, polymixin B, and glutamate. The live viruses are cultured in petri dishes from animal parts and kept alive with the adjuvants. You are introducing live viruses into your body.

    These ingredients, if you do the research on them, are toxic. I am choosing NOT to put these toxic ingredients in my body, and I want to retain that choice without being told that I must, for some health idea which is not corroborated, and has a better chance of being deliberate. I'm playing the odds in my favor, since the vaccine debate is fraught with so much disinfo and bad science.

    If a newborn receives the colostrum from the mother and is given adequate sustenance, to where the immune system is left to develop naturally on it's own, it does not need to be stimulated by harmful viruses in order for it to work properly. If our systems were fed adequate vitamins and minerals and we were not compromised by a food supply which is inadequate, we would not need the pharmaceutical industry to create live viruses in petri dishes and keep them alive with toxic mercury adjuvants and inject these toxins into our systems to stimulate a compromised immune system to function properly.

    I'm telling you, my kids were never vaccinated and they never get sick. An immune system left to develop on its own without compromise works just fine. If you find this testimony anecdotal, then that is your prerogative. Go ahead and get vaccinated, just don't tell me that I have to or that my kids have to in order to go to school.
    Last edited by gripreaper; 28th June 2015 at 06:52.
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Napping (here)
    Outhere's meta-analysis is just one of several high quality studies showing zero link between autism and vaccines. The fact you guys keep bringing up Wakefield's small case series of serously questionable data as one of your (anti-vaccinators) flag ship arguments really speaks volumes. I've read through the other studies listed and they are so rife with poor research methods, confounders and leaps of faith that I no longer lose much sleep over my children's vaccination schedules.

    If you guys invested as much time looking at both sides of this issue and you knew how to interpret scientific studies there's simply no argument.

    A frustrating disagreement I have with many of you on this forum.
    Your unqualified support of this supposed 'meta analysis' as absolute proof of your point and your attempt to degrade all of us who don't know how to 'interpret these scientific studies' like you... must mean you actually read it. I tried but decided not to pay the $35 to see it. It is unclear if I could even do so without being some registered professional in their fold. Please do tell us of the 'research methods' you found so credible in this extremely conclusive report. (cough)



    In other words, Outthere's ego searched and searched to find the biggest grandiose headline of supposed proof that vaccines have nothing to do with autism and you jumped on the bandwagon too... but I bet neither of you could intelligently discuss a thing about this report beyond the grandiose headlines posted or ever heard of the company Elsevier before either.

    Oh, did you even notice the scandal about the creator of the Elsevier Autism reports who was selling 'autism assessment kits' for $325 on the side and using the results in these reports? Curious what you think of this 'research method'.



    Thank you Outthere and Napping for such quality reporting. We're glad you are so concerned with confirming the value of such important claims before posting and not wasting anyone's time like you think anti vaxxers only do.
    Last edited by waves; 28th June 2015 at 08:10.

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Are we talking about vaccines being good or bad ? Or about vaccines with a hidden agenda being good or bad?

    In the first scenario , I think yes, vaccines are very good and needed. Herve, if you were to go to a tropical country and spend 2 months in the jungle ...I feel it would be a good idea to have some shots that immunize you from various tropical diseases .
    I understand your frustration regarding toxic vaccines, hidden agendas and so on. But it's the same with fluoride in water. Is not the water that is bad... The vaccines by themselves are a noble and compassionate idea. How this idea got twisted and perverted it's another story.

    I feel , you are right to be frustrated and upset about this issue but in being so you may have been a bit arrogant to other people and points of view.

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    Australia Avalon Member Napping's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Waves, I wasn't aware that the study wasn't available for the public. I get access as I'm doing post graduate study. It's far from being an isolated high level body of evidence though. Surely you must realise the weight of evidence heavily and I mean HEAVILY favours vaccines. If you don't, then stop limiting your literature or web searches to hypothesises that attempt to validate your preconcieved ideas. There's more rubbish studies out there riddled with all kinds of bias then good ones.

    The argument about compulsory vaccination is a different story all together. Not exactly sure how I feel about making vaccinations compulsory. Thankfully, it hasn't been necessary to this point in Australia....but now they are virtually forcing parents or risk all sorts of penalties including refusing their education. Can't say that sits with me well at all.

    Anyway, this topic tends to just frustrate me as the arguments become circular. Herve, and all of those that are heavily invested in this issue, I know where you stand, I respect that stance, I just can't agree with it. In this instance I'm with the masses in the scientific and general community.

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Napping (here)
    [...] The fact you guys keep bringing up Wakefield's small case series of serously questionable data as one of your (anti-vaccinators) flag ship arguments really speaks volumes. [...]
    Why would a CDC researcher, co-author of one of those scientific papers "proving" no link between vaccine and autism, risk his carrier when blowing the whistle on the fudged and omitted data?
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Cristian (here)
    [...]... Herve, if you were to go to a tropical country and spend 2 months in the jungle ...I feel it would be a good idea to have some shots that immunize you from various tropical diseases .
    [...]
    I was born in a tropical country... never got vaccinated then and there, thanks to MDs and nurses who could still THINK... I am doing fine, thank you!
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Napping (here)
    Outhere's meta-analysis is just one of several high quality studies showing zero link between autism and vaccines. The fact you guys keep bringing up Wakefield's small case series of serously questionable data as one of your (anti-vaccinators) flag ship arguments really speaks volumes. I've read through the other studies listed and they are so rife with poor research methods, confounders and leaps of faith that I no longer lose much sleep over my children's vaccination schedules.

    If you guys invested as much time looking at both sides of this issue and you knew how to interpret scientific studies there's simply no argument.

    A frustrating disagreement I have with many of you on this forum.
    Here is one author of your high quality studies

    btw your high quality studies

    are
    - not double blind (the standard)
    - compare vaccinated to vaccinated (not vaccinated vs unvaccinated)
    - remove autistic children from the data (with the same "high quality method" you can prove that guns do not kill)
    - based on restricted access data (i.e. there is 0 independent validation)

    the problem is that most people (MD included) are scientific illiterate: they don't read the scientific literature and incapable of differentiating good (unbiased) science and bad (fraudulent) science


    You need to ask yourself why there is not a single double blind study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated (except in DOGS where the outcome shows that vaccines turn your own immune system against yourself)

    by the way only 20% of what is published in med science journals is reproducible, if you wonder why i suggest that you read this
    http://theantimedia.org/editor-of-pr...26st_refQuery=

    and this

    http://csglobe.com/editor-in-chief-o...ture-is-false/
    CP below

    "Editor In Chief Of World’s Best Known Medical Journal: Half Of All The Literature Is False

    In the past few years more professionals have come forward to share a truth that, for many people, proves difficult to swallow.

    One such authority is Dr. Richard Horton, the current editor-in-chief of the Lancet – considered to be one of the most well respected peer-reviewed medical journals in the world.

    Dr. Horton recently published a statement declaring that a lot of published research is in fact unreliable at best, if not completely false.

    “The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.” (source)

    This is quite distrubing, given the fact that all of these studies (which are industry sponsored) are used to develop drugs/vaccines to supposedly help people, train medical staff, educate medical students and more.

    It’s common for many to dismiss a lot of great work by experts and researchers at various institutions around the globe which isn’t “peer-reviewed” and doesn’t appear in a “credible” medical journal, but as we can see, “peer-reviewed” doesn’t really mean much anymore. “Credible” medical journals continue to lose their tenability in the eyes of experts and employees of the journals themselves, like Dr. Horton.

    He also went on to call himself out in a sense, stating that journal editors aid and abet the worst behaviours, that the amount of bad research is alarming, that data is sculpted to fit a preferred theory. He goes on to observe that important confirmations are often rejected and little is done to correct bad practices. What’s worse, much of what goes on could even be considered borderline misconduct.

    Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), which is considered to another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world, makes her view of the subject quite plain:

    “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine” (source)

    I apologize if you have seen it before in my articles, but it is quite the statement, and it comes from someone who also held a position similiar to Dr. Horton.

    See also: One Of The Most Important Scientists In The World: “Most Cancer Research Is Largely A Fraud”

    There is much more than anecdotal evidence to support these claims, however, including documents obtained by Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD, from the Neural Dynamics Research Group in the Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences at the University of British Columbia, which reveal that vaccine manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, and health authorities have known about multiple dangers associated with vaccines but chose to withhold them from the public. This is scientific fraud, and their complicity suggests that this practice continues to this day. (source)

    This is just one of many examples, and alludes to one point Dr. Horton is referring to, the ommision of data. For the sake of time, I encourage you to do your own research on this subject. I just wanted to provide some food for thought about something that is not often considered when it comes to medical research, and the resulting products and theories which are then sold to us based on that research.

    It’s truly a remarkable time to be alive. Over the course of human history, our planet has experienced multiple paradigm shifting realizations, all of which were met with harsh resistence at the time of their revelation. One great example is when we realized the Earth was not flat.

    Today, we are seeing these kinds of revelatory shifts in thinking happen in multiple spheres, all at one time. It can seem overwhelming for those who are paying attention, especially given the fact that a lot of these ideas go against current belief systems. There will always be resistance to new information which does not fit into the current framework, regardless of how reasonable (or factual) that information might be.
    "
    Last edited by Houman; 28th June 2015 at 15:36.

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    What proof is there that the HiB vaccine was the cause of of the decrease?
    An evidence based study by UCSF indicates that repeated infections can push "pre-leukemia" blood cells into leukemia. The HiB vaccine has been shown to decrease the incidence of otitis in infants and children.

    Cat

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Gatita (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    What proof is there that the HiB vaccine was the cause of of the decrease?
    An evidence based study by UCSF indicates that repeated infections can push "pre-leukemia" blood cells into leukemia. The HiB vaccine has been shown to decrease the incidence of otitis in infants and children.

    Cat
    Speaking of the HIB vax
    http://shoemakerassociates.com/docum...epbvaccine.pdf

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Gatita (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    What proof is there that the HiB vaccine was the cause of of the decrease?
    An evidence based study by UCSF...
    [...]
    Cat
    Any links? Actual data?
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    These two links with Dr. Andrew Wakefield belong here, I think:

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/05/m...tleblower.html

    And the video presentation at the bottom of this page:

    http://www.activistpost.com/2015/05/...ce-ignite.html

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    What do you tell a mother who has just spent 26 nights in a row with her young child in pain, and has not slept for weeks, is haggard and at her wits end? Do you just tell her that there is no proof? Do you tell her that the incidence of autism and the resultant intestinal collapse is coincidental and she should just go home and live with it?

    I'm 62 years on this planet in this incarnation, and I do not recall any incidence of childhood disease with my peers when I was growing up. We drank out of water hoses, ate dirt and got lots of cuts and scrapes, since we actually got to play outside. Nowadays, you can't go anywhere without hearing about the latest child who has this or that catastrophic malady, or major disease.

    Many of my peers are now dying in their mid sixties, and many others are losing their teeth, and are facing catastrophic illness. This cacophony of disease is now across all spectrum's of our society and is not isolated to those who are 80 years or older. Too many people in their 30's dying of cancer for me to look the other way and NOT dig deep into allopathic history and the pharmaceutical industry. I smell a rat, period.

    It's our children who cannot speak for themselves and it is the children for whom I weep. It is our children for whom we must stand up and advocate, as they are the future of mankind, our legacy. Why is it that when I was growing up we had but one MMR at about age 6 when we started school, and that was it? Why is it that a newborn cannot even leave the hospital without some vaccine, and children have an additional 36 vaccines?

    Don't tell me that pumping toxins into an infant, whose immune system and blood brain barrier is developing, can withstand such a toxic onslaught and not be affected.

    I call bullsh!t on that. PERIOD!
    Last edited by gripreaper; 28th June 2015 at 23:45.
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    The Doctor Who Beat The British General Medical Council By Proving That Vaccines Aren’t Necessary To Achieve Health
    If Dr. Wakefield's case isn't enough, and just in case someone wants to pretend this is nothing, I am going to post the whole article here which can be found at:
    http://www.collective-evolution.com/...chieve-health/

    March 15, 2015 by Anna Rodgers
    Quote What happened when a UK doctor appeared as an expert witness to help two mothers prove in court that their children didn’t need to be vaccinated?

    A 3 year court case against the British General Medical Council that ended with the doctor accused having all allegations dropped.

    Dr. Jayne Donegan, a UK GP, has lived a most fascinating story. It began with her originally being a very strong advocate for vaccinations, but fast forward quite a few years later, and she now not only speaks out against the dangers of vaccinations, but ended up being taken to the General Medical Council with some pretty serious claims by them regarding her professionalism.

    After a few stressful years in court against them, Dr. Donegan won her case. But chances are, this is the first you’re hearing of it.

    In order for you to get the full account of what happened, it’s best to read her full story. Dr. Donegan gave me her permission to use her account below:

    Dr. Jayne Donegan’s Story
    Having trained as a conventional medical doctor, qualifying from St. Mary’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, in 1983, all of my undergraduate teaching and postgraduate experience in Obstetrics & Gynecology, Family Planning, Child Health, Orthopedics, Emergency Medicine and General Practice led me to be a strong supporter of the Universal Childhood Vaccination Program. Indeed, I used to counsel parents in the 1980s who didn’t want to vaccinate their children against whooping cough – which was regarded as the ‘problematic’ vaccine in those days.

    I used to tell them that there were, indeed, adverse reactions, associated with the vaccine – I was not one of those doctors who would gloss over such unpleasant details – but that we doctors were told that the adverse reactions that might occur after the pertussis vaccine were at least ten times less likely than the chance of getting complications from having the disease, and that, essentially, the point of giving their child the vaccine was to prevent them from getting the disease.

    I Used To Think Parent’s Who Don’t Vaccinate Were Either Ignorant or Sociopathic
    Indeed, I used to think that parents who didn’t want to vaccinate their children were either ignorant, or sociopathic. I believe that view is not uncommon among doctors today. Why did I have this attitude? Well, throughout my medical training I was taught that the people who used to die in their thousands or hundreds of thousands from diseases like diphtheria, whooping cough and measles – diseases for which there are vaccines – stopped dying because of the introduction of vaccines.

    At the same time, I was taught that diseases like typhus, cholera, rheumatic and scarlet fever – for which there are no vaccines – stopped killing people because of improvements in social conditions. It would have been a logical progression to have asked myself why, if social conditions improved the health of the population with respect to some diseases, would they not improve their health with regard to them all, but the amount of information that you are required to absorb during medical training is so huge that you just tend to take it as read and not make the connections that might be obvious to someone else.

    It was a received article of faith for me and my contemporaries that vaccination was the single most useful health intervention that had ever been introduced, and when my children were born in 1991 and 1993 I unquestioningly – well, that is to say, I thought it was with full knowledge backed up by all my medical training – had them vaccinated, up as far as MMR, because that was the right thing to do. I even let my 4-week-old daughter be injected with an out-of-date BGC vaccine at a public health clinic.

    Out Of Date BCG Vaccine Injured My Child
    I noticed (force of habit – I automatically scan vials for drug name, batch number and expiry date) that the vaccine was out of date and said, “Oh, excuse me, it looks like it’s out of date,” and the doctor answered matter-of-factly, “Oh don’t worry, that’s why the clinic was delayed for an hour – we were just checking that it was OK to give it, and it is,” and I said, “OK,” and let her inject it… my poor daughter had a terrible reaction, but I was so convinced that it was all for the best that I carried on with all the rest of them at 2, 3 and 4 months.

    No Evidence Of Measles Epidemic
    That is where I was coming from – even my interest in homeopathy didn’t dent my enthusiasm for vaccines; so far as I could see, it was the same process – give a small dose of something and it makes you immune – no conflict. So what happened? In 1994 there was the Measles Rubella Campaign in which 7 million schoolchildren were vaccinated against measles and rubella. The Chief Medical Officer sent out letters to all GPs, pharmacists, nursing officers and other healthcare staff, telling us that there was going to be an epidemic of measles.

    First it was one MMR shot, then two not THREE?
    First it was one MMR shot, then two, now THREE?
    The evidence for this epidemic was not published at the time. In later years it seems that it was predicted by a complicated mathematical model based on estimates and so might never have been going to occur at all. We were told, “Everybody who has had one dose of the vaccine will not necessarily be protected when the epidemic comes. So they need another one.” “Well, that’s OK,” I thought, “because we know that none of the vaccines are 100percent effective.”

    Alarm Bells: Now Three MMR’s Were Needed?
    What did worry me, however, was when they said that even those who had had two doses of measles vaccine would not necessarily be protected when the epidemic came and that they needed a third. You may not remember, but in those days there was only one measles vaccine in the schedule. It was a live virus vaccine, so it was like coming in contact with the wild virus, just changed slightly to make it safer and leading to immunity. Since then, of course, the pre-school dose has been added because one dose didn’t work, but in those days there was just “one shot for life.”

    And now we were being told that even two shots of a “one shot” vaccine would not protect people when the epidemic came. At this point I began to ask myself, “Why have I been telling all these parents that vaccines are safer than getting the disease and that basically, having the vaccine will stop their children getting the disease – with the risk of complications – it’s not 100 percent, but that’s basically what they’re designed to do – when it seems that they can be vaccinated, have whatever adverse reactions are associated with the vaccine, and still get the disease with whatever complications may be associated with that, even when they’ve had two doses of the “one shot” vaccine? So what was the point? This doesn’t seem right.”

    If you are wondering how come anyone would have had two doses of the “one shot vaccine,” it is because when the MMR was introduced in 1988, many children had already been vaccinated against measles, but we were told that we should give them the MMR anyway as it would “protect them against mumps and rubella and boost their measles immunity.” We were also told that the best way of vaccinating was en masse, because this would “break the chain of transmission.” So I thought, “I wonder why we vaccinate all these small babies at 2, 3 and 4 months? Why don’t we just wait two or three years and then vaccinate everyone who has been born in the meantime, and ‘break the chain of transmission’.”

    Things Just Didn’t Add Up
    So some things just didn’t seem to quite add up. However, it is very hard to start seriously questioning whether or not vaccination is anything other than safe and effective, especially when it is something that you have been taught to believe in so strongly. The more medically qualified you are, the more difficult it is, as in some ways the more brainwashed you are. It’s not easy, or at least it wasn’t then, to start going down a path that might lead you in the opposite direction to all your colleagues and the healthcare system in which you work. I read some books that could be described as “anti-vaccination.”

    They contained graphs showing that the majority of the decrease in deaths from and incidence of the infectious diseases for which we have vaccines occurred before the vaccines were introduced in the 1950s and 60s, for example with whooping cough, and in the late 1960s with measles. I decided that I couldn’t just accept what these books were telling me, especially as the message was the opposite to what I had learned up until now. I needed to do some research. The graphs in my textbooks and the Department of Health Immunization Handbook (the Green Book) appeared to show that the introduction of vaccines caused precipitous falls in deaths from vaccinatable diseases.

    Collating My Own Vaccine Charts – Why Was It so Hard To Obtain The Information?
    I decided that if I were going to seriously question what I’d been taught at medical school and by my professors, I would have go and get the real data for myself. Accordingly, I called the Office for National Statistics (ONS) and asked them to send me the graphs of deaths from the diseases against which we vaccinate from the middle of the nineteenth century, when we started keeping records, until now.

    They said, “We don’t have them – except for smallpox and TB; we suggest you try the Department of Health.’” Which I did. They didn’t have graphs from the nineteenth or early twentieth century either. They said, “You’d better try the Office for National Statistics.” “I’ve already tried them,” I said. “They were the ones who advised me to contact you.” It seems to be getting rather circular, so I called up the ONS once again and told them my problem. “Well,” they said, “we have all the books here from when the Registrar General started taking returns of deaths from infectious diseases in 1837; you can come along and look at them if you like.” There was nothing for it.

    I had to go the Office for National Statistics (ONS) in Pimlico, London, with my two young children aged 6 and 4 in tow, to extract the information myself. The girls were very good – they were used to traveling/following me around – and the library staff were very nice; they kindly gave my daughters orange juice to drink, and paper and crayons to draw with and amuse themselves, while I pulled out all the mothy old books from 1837 until 1900, after which, thankfully, there was a CD ROM that could be bought at vast expense and taken home.

    It was the most user-unfriendly piece of data storage that I have ever come across, but it was better than having to physically be there day after day. So I went home with all my notes and the CD Rom and eventually produced my own graphs. I was startled to find that they were similar to the graphs in some of the books that I had recently read.

    us-uk-pertussis-1901-1965
    In both the UK and USA, Whooping cough was on the decline (very steadily) before the vaccine was introduced
    People Stopped Dying of Whooping Cough Long Before Vaccine Was Introduced

    I was astonished and not a little perturbed to find that when you draw a graph of the death rate from whooping cough that starts in the mid nineteenth century, you can clearly see that at least 99 percent of the people who used to die of whooping cough in the nineteenth and early twentieth century had stopped dying before the vaccine against whooping cough was introduced, initially in the 1950s and universally in the 1960s.

    I also realized that the reason the Department of Health’s graphs made the vaccine appear so effective was because they didn’t start until the 1940s when most of the improvements in health had already occurred, and this was before even antibiotics were generally available. If you selected only deaths in under-15-year-olds, the drop was even more dramatic – by the time whooping cough vaccine was part of the universal immunization schedule in the early 1960s all the hard work had been done.

    Department of Health’s Own Charts: Not A Good Way Of Showing Changes in Mortality and Disease
    I now began to realize that graphs such as those featured in the Department of Health Green Book were not a good or clear way of showing the changes in mortality (death) and morbidity (incidence of disease) that occurred before and after vaccination was introduced against these diseases.

    Measles is similar: the Department of Health Green Book features a graph that does not start until the 1940s. There appears to be great drop in the number of cases after the measles vaccine was introduced in 1968, but looking at a graph which goes back to the 1900s you can see that the death rate – death being the worst-case complication of a disease – had dropped by 99 percent by the time the vaccine was put on the schedule.


    Measles declined naturally before vaccine was introduced
    100% Decline In Measles Deaths Three Years Before Vaccine Was Introduced
    Looking specifically at under-15-year-olds, it is possible to see that there was a virtual 100 percent decline in deaths from measles between 1905 and 1965 – three years before the measles vaccine was introduced in the UK. In the late 1990s there was an advertisement for MMR which featured a baby in nappies sitting on the edge of a cliff with a lion prowling on the other side and a voice-over saying, “No loving parent would deliberately leave their baby unprotected and in danger.”

    I think it would have been more scientific to have put one of the graphs using information from the ONS in the advert – then parents would have had a greater chance of making an informed choice, rather than being coerced by fear. When you visit your GP or Health Visitor to discuss the vaccination issue, and you come away feeling scared, this is because you are picking up how they feel.

    If all you have is the “medical model” for disease and health, all you know is that there is a hostile world out there and if you don’t have vaccines, antibiotics and 100 percent bactericidal hand-wash, you will have no defense at all against all those germs with which you and your children are surrounded. Your child may be OK when they get the measles, but you can never tell when disaster will strike, and they may be left disabled or dead by the random hand of fate.


    Health comes from nutrition plus other common sense measures
    Health Is the Only Immunity
    I was like that myself, and when the awful realization began to dawn on me that vaccines weren’t all they were cracked up to be, I started looking in a panic for some other way of protecting my children and myself – some other magic bullet. My long, slow journey researching the vaccination disease ecology involved learning about other models and philosophies of health and the gradual realization that it was true what people had told me all along, that “health is the only immunity.”

    We don’t need to be protected from “out there.” We get infectious diseases when our body needs to have a periodic clean-out. Children especially benefit from childhood spotty rashes, or “ex anthems” as they are called, in order to make appropriate developmental leaps. When we have fevers, coughs, rashes, we need to treat them supportively, not suppressively.

    Standard Medical Treatment Suppresses Symptoms And Causes The Most Harm
    In my experience, the worst complications of childhood infections are caused by standard medical treatment which involves suppressing all the symptoms. What is the biggest obstacle to doctors even entertaining the possibility that the Universal Childhood Vaccination Program may not be the unmitigated success that it is portrayed to be? Or that there may be other ways of achieving health that are better and longer lasting? Possibly it is the fear of stepping out of line and being seen to be different – with all the consequences that this can entail, as I know from personal experience.

    As George Bernard Shaw says in his preface to “The Doctor’s Dilemma,” 1906 :

    Doctors are just like other Englishmen: most of them have no honor and no conscience: what they commonly mistake for these is sentimentality and an intense dread of doing anything that everybody else does not do, or omitting to do anything that everybody else does.
    Dr. Jayne L. M. Donegan MBBS DRCOG DCH DFFP MRCGP MFHom

    Holistic GP and Homeopathic Physician

    general-medical-council.png

    The British General Medical Council Court Case
    Here is some very interesting information regarding Dr. Donegan, and why her authority on vaccines should be paid attention to, simply because the medical world actually did. In 2002 Dr. Donegan went to the High Court, as she was involved in a case where two mothers were fighting their ex-partners about their children’s vaccinations. The mothers did not want them to be given to their children – under any circumstances – for fear of causing irreversible harm, but the fathers did, so a controversial court case ensued.

    Dr. Donegan had been writing and speaking publicly about vaccinations and natural ways of keeping children healthy so she was asked to be an expert witness by the two mothers. Dr. Donegan gave her professional opinion that the safety and efficacy of vaccines has not been well studied and that there were other ways of achieving health than vaccination for these children.



    The case proved very long and extremely stressful. At times it was under very unfair circumstances where she would be given hardly any time to get documents together, despite the opposition having double the time to prepare theirs.

    Junk Science Accusation

    Due to the information she was providing in court (which went straight against the typical mainstream medical advice), the Appeal Judges called her evidence “Junk Science” and the GMC (General Medical Council) – the organization that regulates doctors and tells them how to practice – targeted the doctor herself.

    Dr. Donegan ended up being accused of “serious professional misconduct” which could have eventually ended her entire medical career. They served her official papers in 2004, but it took three long years of writing reports and going through hundreds of medical documents and studies before the case was finally heard in 2007. The allegations are below:

    “That you (Dr. Donegan):
    6a. Gave false and/ or misleading impressions of the research which you relied upon, 6b. Quoted selectively from research, reports and publications and omitted relevant information, 6c. Allowed your deeply held views on the subject of immunisation to overrule your duty to the court and to the litigants, 6d. Failed to present an objective, independent and unbiased view;
    7. Your actions in head 6. above were, 7a. Misleading, 7b. In direct contravention to your duty as an expert witness; unprofessional, 7c. Likely to bring the profession into disrepute; And that in relation to the facts alleged by you have been guilty of serious professional misconduct.”
    As I am sure you can appreciate reading this, these allegations were incredibly serious. They basically said that the testimony Dr. Donegan provided in court was made up, that she was giving harmful advice, which could damage the entire medical profession and had allowed her personal views to come into the case.

    Over the next three years Dr. Donegan had to prepare her defense, answer letters, go through stacks of evidence and collate documents which made it very difficult to look after her family or carry on her professional life as a doctor. She also had to cope with having her legal team withdraw from the case, six weeks before she was originally due in court.

    Scientific “Proof”: Very Different From “Proof” In A Court Of Law
    Dr. Donegan then managed to find Mr. Clifford Miller, a lawyer who was exceptionally well-read on the subject of vaccination. Not only was Mr. Miller very good with the law, he was also a scientist, having attained a BSc in physics. He had an in-depth knowledge of the scientific method, what constitutes scientific “proof,” and how this is very different from what is accepted as “proof” in a court of law.

    Dr Donegan and Mr Miller, were very careful of using only medical journal reports and studies as their evidence to support what they were saying. This is very important to remember.

    They only used information from respected medical sources.

    This case had started out with almost impossible odds, yet after almost three years of legal wrangling and a three-week hearing by the GMC panel in Manchester, the GMC came to this conclusion:

    The Panel were sure that at no stage did you allow any views that you held to overrule your duty to the court and to the litigants.
    You demonstrated to the Panel that your reports did not derive from your deeply held views and your evidence supported this. You explained to the Panel that your approach in your report was to provide the court with an alternative view based on the material you produced in your references. That material was largely drawn from publications that were in fact in favor of immunisation.
    It was clear from your evidence and the evidence of your witness that your aim is to direct parents to sources of information about immunisation and child health safety to help them to make informed choices.
    You told us that there are many books by doctors and others in this and other countries who seriously question vaccination and they cite a lot of history, proofs, and medical papers to support their arguments. You did not use any of those publications because you did not think that the GMC would regard those as satisfactory support or references for your recommendations. You largely used what was available in refereed medical journals.
    The Panel is sure that in the reports you provided you did not fail to be objective, independent, and unbiased.
    Accordingly, the Panel found that you are not guilty of serious professional misconduct.
    The case between Dr. Donegan and the GMC was very much like that of David and Goliath, and was another rare example of David actually winning.

    GMC Agreed: Children Do Not Need Vaccines To Be Healthy
    I would like you to have a really serious think about this trial – the claims that were made – the eventual outcome and what it might mean about the entire vaccine industry:

    Dr. Donegan was called upon as a witness to provide evidence that children do not need vaccines to be healthy and that many are unnecessary and unsafe.
    This brought unwanted attention to her from the British General Medical Council who then took her to court.
    During this 3 year trial, she presented her evidence against a very tough opposition involving many QCs and a very expensive legal team, yet Dr. Donegan and her much smaller team WON the case.
    What do you think it means about the evidence she provided and the fact that this medical council could not prove her wrong?
    What does this cause you to think about vaccines now?
    And what does it make you think about the actual science when presented in a court of law?
    Case Results Kept Quiet In The Media
    This shocking outcome with its unlikely win – surprise surprise, never really made it into the media. It should have been on every front page of each newspaper in the world, but of course it wasn’t. With the media being owned/funded by Pharmaceutical companies who have the ability to put pressure on Governments to do what they want, it’s no wonder this landmark win was kept out of the publics view.

    When Dr. Donegan was first accused of serious professional misconduct it did of course make it into the papers, but after she won, there was hardly any media attention at all. Yet wouldn’t you think the public deserves to know this outcome? Wouldn’t you have liked to know about this? Wouldn’t you also like to know about the dirty tactics used in court against Dr. Donegan?

    Dr. Donegan was asked after her GMC enquiry ended, what had she learned from this experience:

    Perhaps it is that if a parent says, “I’m worried about the safety of vaccination,” they are told, “You don’t understand, you’re not a doctor.” However if a doctor says, “I’m worried about the safety of vaccination,” they are told, “We’re charging you with serious professional misconduct… “
    Please visit Dr Donegan’s website:

    Dr. Jayne L. M. Donegan MBBS DRCOG DCH DFFP MRCGP MFHom

    Holistic GP and Homeopathic Physician

    Dr Donegan tours the UK giving lectures to parents about vaccines and how to create health with nutrition, supplements, and homeopathy.

    Suggested further reading and to get a copy of the transcripts from the GMC enquiry:
    https://childhealthsafety.wordpress....n-in-medicine/
    Details of what was brought up in court:
    http://www.foodsmatter.com/conferenc...let_a_day.html
    More interesting info about the case:
    http://scientific-misconduct.blogspo...e-donegan.html
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Canada Avalon Member Daughter of Time's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    I guess along with the primer, we needs a few quick charts:

    Africa - measles. In 1981 there were over 1,400,000 cases, as of 2013 there were less than 100,000.:

    [...]
    Makes one wonder why you omitted showing this quick chart along with that other one:



    ... which indicates that by the time vaccinations became profitable, measles had long ceased to be a major problem due to better hygiene and nutrition.
    I went to put out the garbage a while earlier and ran into a neighbor who is your typical unenlightened individual who believes in Western medicine only. In her opinion, if Western medicine cannot cure a disease, it is because a cure doesn't exist. Alternative cures are bogus, and that's all there's to it. We live on the same floor, so I invited her in for coffee and to look at this graph. The conversation went something like this:

    I: what does this graph tell you?

    She: that vaccines ended deaths from measles.

    I: what else?

    She: that there used to be a lot of deaths before the measles vaccine.

    I: do you see that deaths from measles had greatly decreased before the vaccines were introduced?

    She: yes, but they hadn't ended.

    I: don't you think they might have ended on their own, without the vaccines?

    She: no! It was the vaccines that ended the deaths.

    I: you feel sure about that?

    She: yes, without vaccines, the deaths might have gone up again and we might have more people dying from measles than before.

    I: so that's what you get from this graph?

    She: yes, that's what I get. It's pretty obvious to me.

    And that is the way the average person on planet Earth thinks!

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
    [...]

    And that is the way the average person on planet Earth thinks!
    My... I empathize... I can very well imagine yourself refraining from mentioning:


    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Canada Avalon Member Daughter of Time's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
    [...]

    And that is the way the average person on planet Earth thinks!
    My... I empathize... I can very well imagine yourself refraining from mentioning:


    Thanks for the laugh!

    I forgot to ask her how many vaccines she has received. I know she gets the flu shot every year and she gets much sicker in the winter than I do.

    Mind you, I received quite a number in bygone years, but never as a baby, and none since I've become aware of the perils. And I've never had a flu shot.
    Last edited by Daughter of Time; 29th June 2015 at 18:07.

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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    The plot, in its Ockham's razor simplicity:

    Quote The future of a country is based upon its children. Destroy the children and the country is doomed. It takes a truly cowardly and demonic sort of person to attack, deceive and betray little children. But it is being done in the American, the European and the Australian schools today. And the next best attack is to deceive, betray and swindle the mothers of those children. And the next best attack is to deceive and betray the doctors who advise the mothers of those children.
    Dr. Wu Tao-Wei
    Check this: Agenda 21, Vaccines & The Female Of The Species

    and this: Do vaccines contribute to autism? Should we vaccinate?

    Speaks by itself: Anti-Vaccine doctor found dead
    Last edited by Hervé; 30th June 2015 at 14:21.
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    Default Re: Eight reasons to vaccinate your child

    Anti-vaccine MD 'suicided'. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ant...kFHG?ocid=iehp

    Whether vaccine work or not isn't the question. The much larger question is, do I have the right to determine whether a substance is injected into my body?! YES I do! The recent decision in California making vaccines mandatory (if the Governor signs) makes me sick to my soul. No op-out except for home schooled kids.
    The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to who we are being. Dr. Joe Dispenza

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