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Thread: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    scientist harald "black goo" kautz has just released another great must see ( imo ) video. at the end he addresses what money is; gaming addiction deriving from a false control and dominate layer paradigm of "scarcity". good stuff . start at 2:01:45 or thereabouts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j88BcgzzcTc

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote Goodbye Troika: Germany Rides Into Its Greek Colony On The "Quadriga"
    Tyler Durden's picture
    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/27/2015

    Quote A quadriga (Latin quadri-, four, and iugum, yoke) is a car or chariot drawn by four horses abreast (the Roman Empire's equivalent of Ancient Greek tethrippon). It was raced in the Ancient Olympic Games and other contests. It is represented in profile as the chariot of gods and heroes on Greek vases and in bas-relief. The quadriga was adopted in ancient Roman chariot racing. Quadrigas were emblems of triumph; Victory and Fame often are depicted as the triumphant woman driving it. In classical mythology, the quadriga is the chariot of the gods; Apollo was depicted driving his quadriga across the heavens, delivering daylight and dispersing the night.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...olony-quadriga

    in your face asset stripping. exchanging worthless fake money created out of debt that cannot ever be repaid for anything and everything that once sovereign nation possesses.
    Last edited by idiit; 27th July 2015 at 14:08.

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    Default Re: The essense of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote Posted by idiit (here)
    Quote There are several memes popular in the alternative media attempting to explain what is money and what are the fundamental flaws with our current monetary system.
    i'm a pig. I have a pig for an avatar. since i'm a self confessed pig I find the following to be amusing. it's not my fault. I didn't do it.


    Quote How scientists taught monkeys the concept of money. Not long after, the first prostitute monkey appeared

    Read more: http://www.zmescience.com/research/h...#ixzz3geHcCZ2W
    ^ true story. other links to same topic:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/ma...ness.html?_r=0

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the...le_profession/

    the power of money as a medium of exchange hinges on the concept of scarcity. if something is abundant there is no reason to "exchange".

    according to the ed's there is no scarcity of anything necessary for survival on earth. the would be enslavers have made common items necessary to a decent life scarce, and then make us work like dogs for a few scraps of fiat. we then exchange this fiat for items we need. enslavement.

    meanwhile, back at the virtual printing press the debt slave masters create $trillions out of thin air ( debt based bonds, qe, tarp,....) and allow themselves to be paid interest$ on this debt they created with our signatory promise to "make the debt good". they know this debt with interest can never be paid back. they then demand real physical assets from the bug caught in the spider's web until the bug is sucked dry and discarded as useless to any self respecting parasite. Greece is the latest bug.

    without the illusion of scarcity the whole ponzi scam wouldn't work. the buyer using the fiat would just go get some for themselves. no debt. no money.

    according to the ed threads lots of human dna is being traded galactically for other rare, valuable stuff like advanced technology. again, it's the scarcity of something highly desired that determines that item's perceived value.

    scarcity is the essence. scarcity of something necessary makes it valuable. what/how it is traded for depends on what system you are in.

    http://www.zmescience.com/research/h...nkey-appeared/


    when women realized how crazed men can get for sex.......


    Quote according to the ed's there is no scarcity of anything necessary for survival on earth. the would be enslavers have made common items necessary to a decent life scarce, and then make us work like dogs for a few scraps of fiat. we then exchange this fiat for items we need. enslavement

    I couldn't agree more. The other angle that is being played here is that we are being brainwashed to believe that our very survival depends on owning all sorts of things that in reality are merely things we want.The area of wants vs. needs has become very muddied. Do you ever go into a store and ask yourself how much of the stuff here is really needed for survival. Then of course, we need to have insurance, to make sure we don't loose all the stuff that we have. Not only do we need all kinds of stuff, we need to have it as soon as we get the desire for it.

    All of these things play into our current dependence on this corrupt monetary system. We are in fact addicted to it, in many respects.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Eventually people will master their energy and stop participating in the game: no play; no pay. Furthermore, placing attention on what DOES work. A new focus on needs met directly from resources without the money medium.

    If energy follows attention, then remove it and the outdated will cease to exist.

    I envision the focus on positive solutions will overcome the past and mental enslavement and all that follows. First we understand the concept, then put it into practice. I'm working to prove this.

    I will say, though, that discussion is valuable; it leads us to awareness. By putting the awareness in the peripheral vision and moving towards the solution, we can eventually eliminate the old paradigm of attempted control.

    We are free in our minds, if we choose to be. I'm enjoying the learning process, but have much compassion for the deceived masses.

    Thank you all for sharing awareness...a huge solution in and of itself.

    Love to all,
    Michelle Marie
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Eventually people will master their energy and stop participating in the game: no play; no pay.

    Yes, it is a process this awakening of our dependence upon a system (that entraps). And with awareness comes change,..
    The system of "Money" does keep our heads down. No different to the game of, Monopoly, where we look down all focused upon a small square board, rolling dice and shuffling plastic objects back and forth.
    Money is a symbol (synthetic at that) of our enslavement. But it is a game and we can change the rules..

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote All Hail Our Banking Overlords!

    Posted on August 12, 2015 by The Doc
    Quote In another development, the European Central Bank (ECB) agreed to increase emergency funding to Greece for the first time since it was frozen in June.

    The decisions were made after Greek MPs passed tough reforms as part of a eurozone bailout deal.
    Quote No, not at all. Here’s what the entirety of the “”loan”” will go towards instead:


    The bridging loan means Greece will be able to repay debts to the ECB and IMF on Monday.

    Ummmm…that “money” will not ever go anywhere near Greece
    Quote This is all merely electronic window-dressing for entirely esoteric bookkeeping purposes. Servers will blink at one location in Europe as digital 1s and 0s are transmitted to another. The electronic balances at the ECB and the IMF will change, but not much else.

    The people of Greece will see none of it. Nor will they see their bank accounts unfrozen.
    emphasis mine

    http://www.silverdoctors.com/all-hai...ds/#more-56557

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    This is making the rounds of facebook:

    "Goldman Sachs earned up to 450 million Euros from the crisis, but this is not surprising behaviour from Goldman Sachs -- it’s a world leader in disaster capitalism, with a long history of profiteering from human misery. It inflates bubbles only to profit when they burst. It sells toxic assets and then bets they will crash. From food speculation to global tax evasion, the bank is a symbol of everything that is wrong with capitalism.

    “The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity,” Rolling Stone journalist Matt Taibbi famously wrote, “relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.”

    "While Goldman sucks us dry, our schools and hospitals are crumbling, and suicide rates are skyrocketing. 450 million Euros won’t solve all of Greece’s problems, but it will help -- and it will go some way to correcting the injustice that allows those who caused the financial crisis to get away scot-free while ordinary people are left to suffer the consequences.

    "I ask you to stand with the people of Greece and get Goldman Sachs to take responsibility for the Greek crisis."

    It came to me from a friend in Japan. It accompanies a request that we sign a petition https://community.sumofus.org/petiti...ime=1439846882

    And here, reported on "The Good News Network", is this:

    "People in the Basque town of Galdakao, Spain, put their leftovers in the fridge — not just the ones in their homes, but the one on the street, too.
    The city of about 30,000 created the country’s first communal refrigerator to help the hungry.

    "Alvaro Saiz, who used to run a food bank in Galdakao, came up with the idea for the “Solidarity Fridge” during the recession when he saw people going through trash bins looking for food. He figured there had to be a better way for restaurants and even individuals to give away unused food."


    http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/town-...ngry-in-spain/

    It seems that little step by little step we move towards what is better.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Thomas Edison Exposed Central Banking Scam in 1921

    Henry Makow November 27, 2018
    (Thanks to Tony Blizzard)



    In a New York Times interview Dec. 6, 1921, Thomas Edison advocated financing the proposed Muscles Shoals Dam by issuing currency instead of debt (bonds.) They are identical promises to pay, but currency does not incur debtor interest. Thus Edison exposed the whole central banking fraud which holds humanity in bondage.

    Politicians, corporations, professors all shill for the central banking cartel which produces the medium of exchange (currency, credit) as a debt to itself. (Governments are perfectly capable of doing this debt-and-interest-free.) The bankers must enslave humanity in a world police state (globalism) in order to protect this racket.

    "On the point of Mr. [Henry] Ford's suggestion to the Government for financing the completion of the dam, Mr. Edison reiterated his belief ... that it was a good plan and that if only the currency method is tried in raising money for public improvements, the country will never go back to the bond method.

    Now, as to paper money, so-called, everyone knows that paper money is the money of civilized people. The higher you go in civilization the less actual money you see. It is all bills and checks. What are bills and checks? Mere promises and orders. What are they based on? Principally on two sources - human energy and the productive earth. Humanity and the soil - they are the only real basis of money.

    "... There is just one rule for money, and that is, to have enough to carry all the legitimate trade that is waiting to move. Too little or too much are both bad. But enough to move trade, enough to prevent stagnation on the one hand and not enough to permit speculation on the other hand, is the proper ratio.

    "Then you see no difference between currency and Government bonds?" Mr Edison was asked.

    "Yes, there is a difference but it is neither the likeness nor the difference that will determine the matter; the attack will be directed against thinking of bonds and currency together and comparing them. If people ever get to thinking of bonds and bills at the same time, the game is up.



    "Now, here is [Henry] Ford proposing to finance Muscle Shoals by an issue of currency. Very well, let us suppose for a moment that Congress follows his proposal. Personally, I don't think Congress has imagination enough to do it, but let us suppose that it does. The required sum is authorized - say $30,000,000. The bills are issued directly by the Government, as all money ought to be. When the workmen are paid off they receive these United States bills. When the material is bought it is paid in these United States bills. Except that perhaps the bills may have an engraving of a water dam, instead of a railroad train and ship, as some of the Federal Reserve notes have. They will be the same as any other currency put out by the Government: that is, they will be money. They will be based on public wealth already in Muscle Shoals, and their circulation will increase that public wealth, not only the public money but also the public wealth - real wealth.

    "When these bills have answered the purpose of building and completing Muscle Shoals, they will be retired by the earnings of the power dam. That is, the people of the United States will have all that they put into Muscle Shoals and all that they take out for centuries - the endless wealth-making water power of that great Tennessee River - with no tax and no increase of the national debt." [Emphasis added - Tony B.]

    "But suppose Congress does not see this, what then?" Mr. Edison was asked.

    "Well, Congress must fall back on the old way of doing business. It must authorize an issue of bonds. That is, it must go out to the money brokers and borrow enough of our own national currency to complete great national resources, and we then must pay interest to the money brokers for the use of our own money.

    Old Way Adds to Public Debt
    "That is to say, under the old way any time we wish to add to the national wealth we are compelled to add to the national debt.

    "Now, that is what Henry Ford wants to prevent. He thinks it is stupid, and so do I, that for the loan of $30,000,000 of their own money the people of the United States should be compelled to pay $66,000,000 - that is what it amounts to, with interest. People who will not turn a shovel full of dirt nor contribute a pound of material will collect more money from the United States than will the people who supply the material and do the work. That is the terrible thing about interest. In all our great bond issues the interest is always greater than the principal. All of the great public works cost more than twice the actual cost, on that account. Under the present system of doing business we simply add 120 to 150 per cent, to the stated cost.


    "But here is the point: if our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good makes the bill good, also. The difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets the money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20 per cent., whereas the currency pays nobody but those who directly contribute to Muscle Shoals in some useful way.

    "If the Government issues bonds, it simply induces the money brokers to draw $30,000,000 out of the other channels of trade and turn it into Muscle Shoals; if the Government issues currency, it provides itself with enough money to increase the national wealth at Muscle Shoals without disturbing the business of the rest of the country. And in doing this it increases its income without adding a penny to its debt.

    "It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30,000,000 in bonds and not $30,000,000 in currency. Both are promises to pay; but one promise fattens the usurer, and the other helps the people. If the currency issued by the Government were no good, then bonds issued would be no good either. It is a terrible situation when the Government, to increase the nation's wealth must go into debt and submit to ruinous interest charges at the hands of men who control the fictitious value of gold.

    "Look at it another way. If the Government issues bonds, the brokers will sell them. The bonds will be negotiable; they will be considered as gilt-edged paper. Why? Because the Government is behind them, but who is behind the Government? The people. Therefore it is the people who constitute the basis of Government credit. Why then cannot the people have the benefit of their own gilt-edged credit by receiving non-interest bearing currency on Muscle Shoals, instead of the bankers receiving the benefit of the people's credit in the form of interest-bearing bonds?"


    Says People Must Pay Anyway
    The people must pay anyway; why should they be compelled to pay twice, as the bond system compels them to pay? The people of the United States always accept their Government's currency. If the United States Government will adopt this policy of increasing its national wealth without contributing to the interest collector - for the whole national debt is made up of interest charges - then you will see an era of progress and prosperity in this country such as never could have come otherwise."

    "Are you going to have anything to do with outlining this proposed policy?" Mr. Edison was asked.

    "I am just expressing my opinion as a citizen," he replied. "Ford's idea is flawless. They won't like it. They will fight it, but the people of this country ought to take it up and think about it. I believe it points the way to many reforms and achievements which can not come under the old system."

    (Thanks to Tony Blizzard)


    Related:
    Accept Servitude, says Banker

    Banking System is Key to Understanding Our Servitude

    ----------------------------------------------

    First Comment from Stephen Coleman:
    Great article. The First National Bank of the United States set up by Hamilton was such a bank that issued credit for the building of infrastructure, agriculture, mining and manufactures. This bank flew in the face of our British imperial enemies. The bank had later been corrupted and taken over by the central bankers that were tied to the City of London's imperial banking system.

    Lincoln revived the system and took a hopelessly bankrupt nation and in 5 years transformed the US into the world's leading economy while simultaneously fighting it's bloodiest war and a financial war against the City of London. London fixed the price of gold against the value of the Greenback in Europe, effectively making importing to the US prohibitively expensive, if not impossible.

    Under such a credit system speculation is illegal and will get it's practitioners stiff prison time.

    Kennedy began to issue silver certificate currency under the same idea, but the powers behind the scenes had him assassinated for this and for his opposition to the war in Vietnam.

    The most ironic situation today is that China has adopted a system based upon Hamilton's First National Bank. China today has brought over 800 Million people out of dire poverty in the last 40 years. China is building great infrastructure projects throughout south Asia, southeast Asia, Africa and South America. They are offering much lower interest than the western banks, plus they are overseeing the projects to keep control of corruption that is so rampant in the 3rd world. What China is doing is historically unprecedented.

    China in a few more decades will be the world's leading economy. All of Trump's efforts are misguided and doomed to fail unless he takes down the FED and replaces it with a similar institution, joining with China and Russia to once and for all eliminate poverty and war.

    Russia is heading in the same direction with Sergei Glazyev, minister of the economy fighting for a national bank for over several decades. China and Russia are too big to bomb back to the dark ages as the US did to Iraq and Libya.

    This is the main reason for the West's sabre rattling against China and Russia. Such a banking system is a direct threat against the survival of the Wall Street/ City of London world economic dictatorship. And such a system doesn't deserve to survive and it's leaders need to be hung as war criminals and enemies of the people of this entire planet.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    but currency does not incur debtor interest
    The interest is not the whole story.

    The interest is but one of the means of ratcheting up the proportion of debt to equity.

    The kicker comes when the debt so vastly exceeds the equity that there is no longer any hope of the debt being repaid in equitable value.

    Then do we have a debt jubilee, an economic collapse, debt defaults, hyper-inflation, or ... the norm these days in any of these events ... the repossession of the collateral by the lenders, that being the favored means by which the 0.01% of us end up owning the planet and its material wealth that the other 99.99% of us built, use, and live upon?

    Interest, like the toxins in our food, water and vaccines, are but the instrument that weakens us. It's the subsequent bankruptcies of persons, corporations and nations that transfers the wealth of our communities, families and businesses to the control of the 0.01%, including the number one cause of personal bankruptcy -- medical expenses due to chronic illnesses brought on by said toxins.

    Interest in and of itself, especially to those of us who have at sometime in our life made substantial profits from stocks, bonds and real estate appreciation, sometimes is a "good" thing, or seems that way at the time.

    It's the terms of default that get us, as it is in the terms of divorce and revolution that the fortunes of families and nations are determined, or stolen.

    Interest is but the primary tool used to ratchet up the leverage, in order to gain control over greater amounts of wealth, when the defaults, divorces and revolutions occur.

    As with guns, knives and dynamite, also it is that ratchets, whether of the physical winch and rope sort, or of the monetary sort (aka interest), are inherently neither good or evil. It all depends on what is being done with them.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    This is the main reason for the West's sabre rattling against China and Russia. Such a banking system is a direct threat against the survival of the Wall Street/ City of London world economic dictatorship. And such a system doesn't deserve to survive and it's leaders need to be hung as war criminals and enemies of the people of this entire planet.
    Unfortunately, at least in my crystal ball (which I bought used and cracked, for 25 cents, at a local garage sale), the banking system will survive just fine.

    Rather we are just entering a period of dramatic collapse of the existing US Petro-Dollar based monetary system, with accompanying repossessions by the Banksters of another large chunk of our civilization's wealth, under the terms and conditions imposed by the laws, regulations, institutions, über wealthy families, secret agreements and secret societies, that continue to hold the upper hand in such affairs.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    I respectfully disagree Paul. Usury, that is, interest, is the problem. Usury is not what we have been dumbed-down to believe is "excessive interest." Usury is by definition interest, any and all interest, on money. it is the so-called "Eleventh Marble" problem. Usury is the root cause of all that is wrong with money creation and lending. All else is striking at the branches and missing the root.

    One must understand that when "money" is created and lent into existence, the interest on that money, which is required to be paid prior to full payment of the principal, is not created. In a central banking system, more money is owed to the lender than what exists in the money supply. Hence the "eleventh marble."

    As to the Eleventh Marble problem, in the original theory there were 10 marbles of "money" and only one marble of "usury" That is, while there were only 10 marbles in existence, 11 marbles had to be returned. It is a zero sum game. There are always losers. Hence, bankruptcy laws and other laws re discharge and forgiveness, and the occasional jubilee.

    I argue that today it is the inverse or reciprocal of what used to be. Now there is but one marble of "money" and ten marbles of usury. The usury cannot be paid back. It is impossible. That's the way they want it and that's when they start grabbing what they really want. Land, minerals, water.... and the other "security" for the debt.

    The present central banking system is not sustainable and it causes more harm than imaginable. It is way past time for a jubilee.
    Last edited by Satori; 27th November 2018 at 23:24.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    As to the Eleventh Marble problem, in the original theory there were 10 marbles of "money" and only one marble of "usury" That is, while there were only 10 marbles in existence, 11 marbles had to be returned. It is a zero sum game. There are always losers. Hence, bankruptcy laws and other laws re discharge and forgiveness, and the occasional jubilee.
    Cash flows and balance sheets are not the same. An economic/monetary system can sustain interest payments in perpetuity, so long as those payments are but a modest portion of cash flows.

    Interest is a tool of debt enslavement; but it is not essentially and necessarily enslaving. Interest does not enslave; but our slave masters often use interest bearing debt to enslave us.

    Thus with guns, bombs and bullets, in another arena. Guns don't kill; but killers often use guns.

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    I argue that today it is the inverse or reciprocal of what used to be. Now there is but one marble of "money" and ten marbles of usury. The usury cannot be paid back. It is impossible. That's the way they want it and that's when they start grabbing what they really want. Land, minerals, water.... and the other "security" for the debt.
    Yes - the debt has been sufficiently leveraged up, and interest is the key, but not exclusive, mechanism of such leverage, that massive defaults seem imminent.

    The terms of the default are not in our best interest .

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    The present central banking system is not sustainable and it causes more harm than imaginable. It is way past time for a jubilee.
    Yes - however there will be not be a beneficial jubilee. There will be yet another ratcheting up of control over the labor and resources of this planet, by the über elite.
    Last edited by Paul; 28th November 2018 at 00:20.

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    Default Re: The essence of debt money: Banks have exclusive license to interchange value for promises

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    [QU
    Yes - however there will be not be a beneficial jubilee. There will be yet another ratcheting up of control over the labor and resources of this planet, by the über elite.
    The more I look at the history of this whole thing, Jubilee seems to have been the established practice from India through Greece up into Europe, and was a major part of what would be called "Good Kings". It can still be found in the Bible and similarly was in one of the primitive concepts of the American flag.

    I tend to believe there has to be a system of government with this as a part of it. I mean, it was relatively global, commonplace, standard definition of morality. Now pretty much erased and I'm sure if you mentioned it to the people it should apply to, they would look at you as being sheerly insane while saying it was an old world superstition that went out centuries ago. A government is the only thing that could possibly stop them.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to shaberon For This Post:

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