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Thread: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

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    United States Avalon Member Michelle Marie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by breal (here)
    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)

    The bottom line is that we need to brainstorm about potential solutions instead of distractions. United we stand and divided we fall.

    Yes! Let's unite in
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Rebekah's books can be ordered on Amazon, Kindle or hard copy.
    Link

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    Quote Posted by breal (here)
    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)

    The bottom line is that we need to brainstorm about potential solutions instead of distractions. United we stand and divided we fall.

    Yes! Let's unite in
    I second that, third that, fourth that...to infinity...

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    ..........
    Last edited by Redstar Kachina; 22nd October 2015 at 01:51.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)
    AND...PS: after calling several bookstores to purchase "Methodical Deception," I had to order a copy since they don't have them in stock. Has anybody read it through yet? I'm really looking forward to it....arriving next week.

    I read "methodical Illusion" in one sitting. I couldn't put it down!
    I too read "Methodical Illusion", and "Methodical Deception", each in one sitting. "Methodical Deception" has been available on Kindle for a couple of weeks now.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    woah,

    I got in an argument with my dad tonight, he is ex military

    Benghazi is still coming up in politics, so I asked, so if 700 CIA agents involved in arms for oil came under attack for running a secret black ops prison, and they come under attaack, by a group trying to release their leader, does the US military have responsibility to save them?

    he said yes, the CIA are American citizens, whether ghost operatives or not...

    after back and forth discussion, I said you were military, 9/11 was an attack by the leaders of our country, and Israel to draw us into a war, are the leaders of our country guilty of treason, or the ones trying to expose their crimes.

    he said " anyone not giving support to their country's leaders, are traitors...

    holy ****...

    I guess all of us are on the terrorist watch list...

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    United States Avalon Member gripreaper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Buddha's Palm (here)
    . What is unfolding is a slow escalation of incidents in the U.S. and Europe that will continue escalating as the third intifada converges with domestic uprisings. This is a self-organized criticality type of event, appearing organic in nature and culminating in some sort of "Event X" scenario that will demarcate the trigger for unification of East and West under the banner of a lasting, global peace via a comprehensive Middle East peace agreement.

    In the coming years it will appear that lightworkers are "surrounded" and cannot "win"...then outside intervention ensures our collective survival in the form of a cosmological intervention. Whether this particular scenario unfolds as described is largely indeterminate. Simply focus on how the human collective is being manipulated and understand why we are being manipulated in this manner. By seeing things as they are, people will develop greater insight into what needs to be done as events unfold. In a nutshell, use the force within you.
    Thanks Todd for your input. I've been wondering what the scuttlebutt might be coming from the hill. As you've stated, no matter what the shenanigans, the ultimate outcome is based on how we use the force that is within us.
    "Lay Down Your Truth and Check Your Weapons
    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhS69C1tr0w

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    ..........
    Last edited by Redstar Kachina; 22nd October 2015 at 01:52.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    I have no problem with the fact that Rebekkah Roth doesn't know what hit/didn't hit the towers or how the towers came down. I agree that that is not what she brought to the table. I also have no problem (As Andrew Johnson apparently does as indicated in his article that was linked by Earthman at post #103) with the fact that Roth just "came onto the scene" after so many years. Nothing particularly suspicious about that. There is plenty of room for new Truthers -- lots of them, in my opinion! I too just "woke up" to 9-11 Truth in 2013, and as soon as I realized that the official story was a pack of lies, I probably spent about 50 hours obsessively watching videos, reading books, and researching on the internet nonstop for at least six months, trying to find the elusive Truth. Obviously this is a mere fraction of the time that Roth has put into this -- and she has expertise that is relevant to what happened/didn't happen that day. I also stopped looking into WHAT caused the towers to fall/collapse/dustify (whatever) -- after reading one too many hostile arguments/diatribes from certain truth movement "experts" or arm-chair scientists who clearly had very strong feelings about what they thought they knew and what they thought others didn't know (due to their superior "credentials" or scientific backgrounds of course). Frankly, although I know that the WHAT is still important (particularly if advanced weaponry was used that supposedly doesn't exist), once you know it didn't happen the way we were told, why has it been so impossibly difficult for all of us to collectively move on to the WHO and to the WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT NOW?

    So I don't share Johnson's disdain for Roth's sudden appearance on the scene or her lack of knowledge on the WTC collapses. However, what DOES concern me about Roth is that some of her information requires us to take her word for it without any 3P verification or evidence in support. For example, the voice message supposedly left on her friend the purser's voice machine regarding Israel's involvement. Who else can confirm this very odd voicemail? Roth says the FBI took it away....so is the only other person who can verify this odd story the purser (and if so, has she gone public with this)? Or what about the MA resident/person Roth claims has come forward to her (privately) saying she saw flight 175 land at Westover AFB? That's pretty explosive information. But shouldn't there have been a lot more residents who saw this?

    Anyway, while I do appreciate Roth's theory -- and I think she comes across as a very credible person in her interviews, I'm still a bit concerned about the lack of substantiation other than Roth's indication that people in the know have reached out to her privately after reading her books confirming some part of her theory. I think we have to be careful not to let these private confirmations simply become part of the alternative story we accept without question -- I personally can't see myself trying to convince friends or family based on an author's statement that a piece of the puzzle was privately confirmed to that author alone.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    The whole 9-11 debacle is fraught with strong emotions and the reason being, is because it shatters all of our illusions if we look at the truth of it. Were talking about a global effort, so organized, so covert, and so outrageous that it is very difficult for most to grok.

    If we admit that there is an elite group of psychopaths, who have their tentacles in the highest echelon's of all governments and militaries on the planet, that have the capability to dustify two steel and concrete buildings at freefall speed, defying the very laws of physics as we know them, and keep the populace from the truth through media entrainment, all the while the official story defying all logic, is it any wonder?

    Its almost impossible for those of us who have studied every single minutia detail of the story extensively for the last fourteen years, to not surmise that there has to have been an astral or off world component to this gargantuan false flag entrainment psy-op, because it was so ritualistic, so deeply entraining, and so deeply embedded in the human psyche all over the world, it just seems to have way too much energy and power behind it.

    I know of no other global experience that even comes close.

    Last edited by gripreaper; 18th September 2015 at 05:03.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    @Star Mariner, post #113 – my apologies for the belated response.
    Quote That’s the thing, because nothing was ordinary that day, nothing was as it seemed.
    Fair enough. But then you backtrack completely by saying
    Quote In my opinion, they saw what was there: an aeroplane. What else did they see? What else did everyone else see? To me it feels a lot more realistic to contemplate planes really hitting buildings,
    Quote two aircraft hitting two towers. Why cannot it be just that? There is nothing unlikely or scientifically impossible about that happening.
    Your realism has been thrown out the window. There is nothing realistic, i.e. scientifically possible, about aluminium carving through best quality steel, or for that matter large aircraft flying so low and so fast: it is just the same as trying to drive round a 30 mph bend at 80, it’s not going to happen, even by remote control. When no rational explanation comes to mind, the real explanation is going to seem magical. Magic is by definition something with a rational explanation that doesn’t occur to you. The magician produces a rabbit out of somewhere fairly local, Bai Saba produces ash out of the aether, and when you don’t understand what’s going on you can easily take the magician for some wonderful enlightened being, or alternatively suspect Bai Saba of being a mere magician. You are simply left with your lack of understanding. When you realize that the magician is not cutting the girl in half, you are faced with another layer of mystery: how did she squeeze into such a tiny space? Answer: because, counter-intuitively, her total volume does not exceed the available volume. But, taking this a step further, suppose it did. In that case, she would have to disappear altogether in a paranormal manner. That is the sort of thing we are talking about here. The girl/the plane is not where she/it is supposed to be. The plane is allegedly in a box that is too ‘small’ for it, therefore it has to be somewhere else.

    As the French writer Jean Cocteau said, “Quand les bornes sont franchies, il n’y a plus de limites”, which roughly translates, Anything can happen when you throw out the rule-book. As regards aircraft sightings, one thing that happens fairly frequently, I gather, is that what one person sees as a UFO someone with them will see as a plane. In other words, what you ‘see’ depends on your level of perception and expectation.

    Your use of Occam’s razor to avoid this issue is fascinating. Such things as reinforced aircraft or pre-weakened steel girders are enough to have poor Occam cut his throat. If the girders were pre-weakened, the buildings would have collapsed much earlier and in a more conventional manner than they did. You are clinging to the idea that a simple conventional plane crash had to happen, leading you into all kinds of unsimple, unconventional speculation. We can all do a half-hour brainstorming session like you just did, but what is the point of reinventing the wheel when there are qualified researchers out there who have been investigating these subjects for years? Most of them proceed by ruling out the impossible, and some of them get to the point where they need to push back the line where the impossible used to start. And they work to explain anomalies, as opposed to seeing how a conventional preconceived explanation can be squeezed into the known facts.

    If you are prepared to envisage weakened steel and/or strengthened aluminium, maybe you should also take a closer look at the eyewitness’s mettle rather than simply accept him as being honest and reliable. Let me offer another take on the guy with the bible on his WTC desk (!! – an obvious candidate for salvation/safety). His testimony to me was very unexpected: more like a sermon than the typical survivor’s account. And the lesson of the day would be Jonah’s deliverance from the belly of the whale. If you’ve read that great American epic oil industry narrative, Moby Dick, you may be reminded of Chapter 9, The Sermon (‘Terrors upon terrors run shouting through his soul. In all his cringing attitudes, the God-fugitive is now too plainly known.’) or Chapter 78, Cisterns and Buckets in which a Jonah figure, Tashtego, is saved from drowning in a whale’s oily head through some ‘agile obstetrics’; or you may recall Chapter 83, Jonah historically regarded, which is a debunking of the bible story, notably pointing out that Jonah’s landing point near Niniveh, on the Tigris, is nowhere near the Mediterranean where he was sailing, or even any sea. In the light of the above, the story of your 911 survivor’s escape by being pulled through a tiny hole in a wall is a clear rewrite of Melville’s ‘agile obstetrics’.

    Borges in ‘Theme of the Traitor and the Hero’ (see here) writes, ‘That history should have copied history was already sufficiently astonishing; that history should copy literature was inconceivable’ – unless, like his, it is a tale of false heroes and real traitors perpetrating a false flag attack under a veil of secrecy. In the case of 911 we have a repetitive sequence of a) history copying history: ‘a new Pearl Harbor’; b) history copying ‘history’ (the bible story), i.e. history copying literature; c) history copying proper (Melvillean) literature; and d) history again copying literature: the Borges scenario. For an eyewitness in the tower to claim he saw a plane hit him is therefore blatantly scripted. And of course the subtext is delivery of the message that Bagdad, like its neighbour Niniveh, would be punished by divine shock and awe; Bagdad would repent, only this time ‘God’ did not relent. The whole thing is a (real-life) fairytale. The magic of story-telling – time to take this particular book back to the library…

    See this post.


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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Michelle Marie (here)

    Has anybody read it through yet? I'm really looking forward to it....arriving next week.

    I read "methodical Illusion" in one sitting. I couldn't put it down!

    Love to all!
    MM
    I'm 3/4 through...I'm not big on modern heroine novels but did patiently read through #1. However, on #2, I find myself skipping ahead to the good parts (good parts, meaning her 911 findings, not the whirlwind-ish romance stuff) but if you loved #1, you'll love this, too. It picks up right where the other left off.
    cursichella1


    Qui tacet consentit

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    @Star Mariner, post #113 – my apologies for the belated response.
    Quote
    Quote Posted by Star Mariner
    That’s the thing, because nothing was ordinary that day, nothing was as it seemed.
    Quote Posted by araucaria
    Fair enough. But then you backtrack completely by saying
    Quote
    Quote Posted by Star Mariner
    In my opinion, they saw what was there: an aeroplane. What else did they see? What else did everyone else see? To me it feels a lot more realistic to contemplate planes really hitting buildings,
    Quote
    Quote Posted by Star Mariner
    two aircraft hitting two towers. Why cannot it be just that? There is nothing unlikely or scientifically impossible about that happening.
    Well, the context was not quite like that. The 'nothing was as it seemed' I was referring to, was in regards to a 'terrorist attack' against the west by a radical muslim sect, Al-Qaeda. That was what 'they' presented to us, but that was not the case at all, obviously. I'm still of an opinion - a judgement, for now - that planes, no matter what planes, who was on them, how they were flown, what hidden tech was involved (or not), did collide with those buildings. That's my opinion, that's my current idea. I was merely suggesting alternative explanations to the sort of mystical mass-illusion scenario that you're suggesting.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    When no rational explanation comes to mind, the real explanation is going to seem magical
    Only to a fool. I don't believe in 'magic' as the dictionary would describe it. Even the extraordinary, the supernatural, applies and adheres to natural Laws, even if we do not understand them. That’s another thread though.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    There is nothing realistic, i.e. scientifically possible, about aluminium carving through best quality steel.
    No there isn't, which is why I put forward the possibility that it wasn't aluminium, or it wasn't steel.

    I still can't quite grasp what you personally believe happened to those towers, and those planes. What is your exact hypothesis of what took place? Forget who was behind it for now, or why. I feel that has been sufficiently explained elsewhere (see 'Follow the Money' by James Corbett in this post, as a good example. How did it all go down in your opinion? What was flying in the air that day? What hit the towers? What hit the Pentagon? What methods/technologies did they employ? What did all the people in Lower Manhattan actually see with their naked eyes? And what did people photograph etc etc..? I want to understand your train of thought on these matters, and follow the evidence you present to wherever it leads. I do not ask this in a passive-aggressive way, I really do want to know and understand what you feel you know and understand, so I can better know and understand for myself.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Your use of Occam’s razor to avoid this issue is fascinating. Such things as reinforced aircraft or pre-weakened steel girders are enough to have poor Occam cut his throat.
    You do make good points in your post, and I appreciate the skilful use of witticism to soften the various blows, as if I had smaller understanding or intelligence than you. Perhaps I do, perhaps I don’t. I simply have a different perspective; have been led to different conclusions thus far in my own examination, and rumination, of the available facts. And every ‘truther’ you speak to will have a different view of those facts, and hotly contest them. That you don’t find universal consensus on what you believe happened, and how, shouldn’t be a surprise to you. Even the experts, the so-called ‘qualified researchers’ who do have the credentials and degrees and PHDs etc, sometimes don’t agree on even basic principles.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    If the girders were pre-weakened, the buildings would have collapsed much earlier and in a more conventional manner than they did.
    That is confidently stated. If you have a degree in structural engineering, that's certainly fair enough, and I'll take you for your word. However, I made no such assertion that this was a solid belief of mine. It was no more than thinking aloud. There's nothing wrong with doing that, and playing devil's advocate. I don't stand in any one court on how 9/11 was done. I don't know how it was done. How can I? -None of us can claim to absolutely know how it was done for certain. We're all in the dark. There's lots of very good evidence, and sound theories, for this and that, yes. But the best we still have is only hypothesis, and somewhat vague ideas, ideas formed and based on personal intelligence, conscious awareness, and our own memory-social-personality complex (which can differ vastly from person to person). I said very early on that I don't rule out the scenario of something really wild, like holograms for example, (we can't know for certain, but this tech likely does exist). On that issue I remain on the fence. Of reinforced planes, or weakened steel in the buildings, who knows? It's just an idea, merely a counterpoint to the hologram theory. I’m on the fence on that too.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    You are clinging to the idea that a simple conventional plane crash had to happen, leading you into all kinds of unsimple, unconventional speculation.
    Yes, I am clinging to the idea that it was probably a plane crash - with physical planes crashing into physical building, even if there are 'plausible' theories to the contrary. I don't apologise for that. But again, it’s not something 'I stand by' irrevocably; it’s not a belief structure I fiercely guard. Most ideas we have in our heads are flexible and temporary. Theories grow, beliefs change (at least they should! - that’s how we evolve). They are always subject to change. When that happens, I’m happy to embrace the event of illumination. Humble pie is good for the soul, and it really doesn’t taste that bad... Possibly at a future time I will fully revise my present understanding - I think we will all revise our gathered wisdom on this matter. To think our current theories are the final, correct ones, would be foolish and arrogant.

    If for example a whistleblower suddenly appeared, and presented a case for actual, documentary evidence for the existence and application of large-scale holographic arrays in the possession of the military, which existed at the time of 9/11, or actual documentary evidence of United 175 landing at Westover AFB - something a little more substantial than hearsay (to be perfectly honest) from an unnamed, unconfirmed source, then, my theories, if you can call them that, will change.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    We can all do a half-hour brainstorming session like you just did, but what is the point of reinventing the wheel when there are qualified researchers out there who have been investigating these subjects for years?

    That pretty much rules out Rebekah Roth though. She's an airline hostess, not a 'qualified researcher'. In my opinion, all the qualification one needs to do research is consciousness - and maybe an internet connection. Avalon is all about research. By participating in this thread I'm doing a kind of research right now!

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    If you are prepared to envisage weakened steel and/or strengthened aluminium, maybe you should also take a closer look at the eyewitness’s mettle rather than simply accept him as being honest and reliable. Let me offer another take on the guy with the bible on his WTC desk (!! – an obvious candidate for salvation/safety).

    [....lots of metaphors....]
    Well friend, just because he had a bible with him, and that he was a Christian, doesn't mean he wasn't telling it as it was, and to the best he can recall, and it doesn’t mean he’s pedalling some kind of religious propaganda meme. I'll 'reinvent the wheel' again. He said he saw the plane's tail lodged inside the wall of his office. You imply he was either lying, or hypnotized, because there was no plane. Well, we all saw a plane fly into his building - even if it was a holographic plane - something went INto the building, so what's to say, by your logic, he wasn't seeing a holographic tail!?
    Last edited by Star Mariner; 18th September 2015 at 16:26.
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    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Thanks again for the great interview Bill. Most of the information was very good information, particularly when she shed some light on the Flight Termination System, and pepper spray which should have circulated the entire plane. But there's a few other points I'm stuck on that I'd like to address:

    5.50 into the interview, (and again at 1hr.10) the 'you did great' thing was brought up. This was heard at the end of a phonecall from hostess (sorry, 'flight attendant') Ceecee Lyles. Could this have just been one of her colleagues standing by, offering moral support? By telling her 'you did great', could be to say, 'under very difficult circumstances, you held your composure and told them what they needed to know, probably better than I could...' It could of course be some CIA agent or controller, holding a gun to her head, and telling Lyles she did a good job in playing the part they would have her play. But to speak aloud like that is a bit of a blunder.

    14.00. She talks about how she thought this was a fake terror attack at the time (2001), yet a few minutes earlier she said she only stumbled into the whole '9/11 thing' in 2008-09, when researching her book. I possibly read something into this that wasn't there.

    24.00 box-cutters. She says it's impossible to kill someone with one of these. I disagree to be fair. Perhaps if the victim saw that blade coming, then yes, it would be no easy task. But if the alleged victim, even a trained assassin, was sitting in his seat, unaware of anything untoward happening (and why shouldn't he be if he really was just a passenger on a regular passenger flight), it wouldn’t be too hard for someone - anyone - to reach the over the back of his seat suddenly, and cut his throat with that razor.

    29.00 Rebekah says that when the Flight Termination System takes over, you cannot talk to other planes, or air traffic control. Yet two of the so-called hijackers (Atta on American 11, and Jarrah on United 93), did broadcast to ATC. "We have a bomb on board..." They were heard to say. " - please remained seated, we are returning to the airport" etc. It has been pointed out that these messages, captured on tape, were meant for the passengers on their respective planes, and not an air-traffic controller. So that's another layer of confusion. That they 'accidentally' broadcast it to ATC is very fishy. It was either very clumsy of Atta and Jarrah (unlikely), or it was staged, deliberate (almost certain) - to inform the ground that yes, unmistakably, this is a hijack. With all that said, would not the Flight Termination System, based on how Rebekah described it, eliminate the possibility they could broadcast anything at all?

    52.00 Interesting revelations about the purser for Flight 11, and how it is implied that the flight manifest, and booking information, are both monitored and strictly controlled. It seems that all these flights - being set up to be what they were - were planned and organized beforehand, possibly to fly light (she says those planes were all suspiciously underbooked) so crowd control later on (if they were diverted to an AFB) would be more manageable. Possibly everyone on them was meant to be on them. It might be useful to research, therefore, if random customers searching for a flight that day were prevented from booking Flight 11, 175, 77 and 93 to keep these numbers at a minimum. Maybe they were told (falsely) they were fully booked, for example.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)

    Atta on American 11
    ... is still alive, and was never on the plane. (This is how Rebekah first realized something was badly wrong with this picture, when she discovered that ten (10) of the alleged hijackers were still alive... not just Atta.)

    Father insists alleged leader is still alive
    http://theguardian.com/world/2002/se...eptember11.usa

    Re the box-cutters, the ONLY source of the box-cutter information was one (1) passenger, Barbara Olson. Considering her connections (listen to Rebekah's interview), and that her husband, Ted Olson, went on CNN very soon after, as if nothing much had happened to his wife (think of the TV interviews done by family members soon after Sandy Hook!), good questions can be asked about how involved she may have been in what really happened.

    I do appreciate your questions — only a couple of which I've referred to here — but (with genuine respect), did you listen to this or any other of Rebekah's interviews? I'm only asking, because your intelligent and well-presented questions seem a little uninformed, as if maybe you weren't quite up to speed with all the evidence that Rebekah has gathered.


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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Buddha's Palm (here)


    Review the above draft report that was prepared for an online course to examine one possible set of scenarios that could at least partially unfold before cosmological intervention manifests. See also http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...ort-currencies

    One may think that these posts are jumping all over the place; however, to understand today's 9/11, attacks to the current world order are multifaceted and are targeting all industrialized and emerging nations simultaneously...not just the United States. These posts are 'all over the place' because today's attacks are both economic and political in nature; and to understand the big picture, a snapshot of everything that will be adversely impacting our lives must be taken into account, for they are interconnected.
    Any thoughts on what this cosmological intervention will look like?

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    ..........
    Last edited by Redstar Kachina; 22nd October 2015 at 01:52.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    So, you suspect something is incoming? In your heart of hearts...? I do, but I have no inside knowledge. I hate to stand out all alone. I've done it before however and have nothing to lose. 2017 is the year. My guess.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I do appreciate your questions — only a couple of which I've referred to here — but (with genuine respect), did you listen to this or any other of Rebekah's interviews? I'm only asking, because your intelligent and well-presented questions seem a little uninformed, as if maybe you weren't quite up to speed with all the evidence that Rebekah has gathered.
    To be honest, and with the same respect of course, I don't understand. I did listen to the interview, all of it - I inserted the time index for each issue I was referring to, which indicates that I did. As to the box cutters in question, the least of points, and mostly irrelevant because it probably, almost certainly, didn't go down this way (there probably were no box cutters, nor actual terrorists), I was, purely illustrating that, in my opinion, someone could quite easily meet with a sticky end if they were attacked suddenly from behind, and with a slash to the throat, by one of these box cutters - that was my only objection, for Rebekah said at the 24:00 mark: "It would be impossible to kill somebody with one of those, especially someone who was a trained assassin." Unlikely, I maintain, but not impossible.

    But anyway, that's not important. I think Bill there has to be something else in what I've said that has led you to believe I am uninformed. I assure you that is not the case. I think the thing on which we differ, with respect, as that we have opposing views on the various whys, hows, and wherefores of 9/11, but I feel it's a little over board to suggest that someone with a different opinion to you is not up to speed or uninformed - that may be the case with a non-truther (which I am not, I have been seeking it all my life). I believe only that I have taken into consideration a different train of thought, possibly agreeing with those things that you have not, whilst excluding others which you have accepted, to arrive at a different conclusion. That’s all. Who is correct and who isn’t, is not really important at the end of the day, because wisdom is constantly in flux; it is a learning process for us all, and with new information and new trains of thought - in moments of revelation - we take one step closer (or one step further away) from truth. Where I am on that path I don’t know, but I’m trying to find my way, and doing the best that I can.

    I am only trying to understand a mystery. I’m just a regular forum member, just another faceless punter, I know, but it doesn’t mean I haven’t done some research of my own. I don’t consider myself a ‘researcher’ in the same vein as someone like Rebekah for instance, who does interviews on radio shows, or makes youtube videos, but I assure you I have read a lot of information on this subject and countless others. With regards the box cutter thing, all I’m guilty of, I think, is nitpicking. On that I hold my hands up.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan;1000378
    [Atta…

    is still alive, and was never on the plane. (This is how Rebekah first realized something was badly wrong with this picture, when she discovered that ten (10) of the alleged hijackers were still alive... not just Atta.)

    Father insists alleged leader is still alive
    http://theguardian.com/world/2002/se...eptember11.usa
    I’ve seen that before and read several such testimonies of the alleged terrorists’ miraculous survival of 9/11. I simply do not believe it. For what’s it’s worth, I’ll state my current belief of how this particular angle of the mystery is shaped.

    I highly recommend - I cannot possibly recommend enough - the excellent documentary Ripple Effect 2, by Muad'Dib.



    This documentary is an exhaustive study of 7/7, and the ‘terrorist’ event in London that day. The evidence, and I do not hesitate to say in some places proof, that is uncovered, is as conclusive as it is alarming. In summary, 7/7 took place amid a carefully planned, meticulously orchestrated mock exercise, a drill to test the response and resolve of security services in the event of a terrorist attack on, funnily enough, the London transport system in the exact location, and at the exact time, that real bombs went off that day. But that is not all. Not by a long way.

    4 young middle-eastern men, assets and operatives of the security services in question, were used in the ‘terror drills’. They were to proceed to an arranged place, at an arranged time, with backpacks containing dummy devices, and to be thus apprehended as part of the exercise. They were actors, operatives simply role-playing a part. Actors who would be patsies… The bombs were already in place – in the floor of the tube trains. There is a ton of evidence that supports all of these claims, all explained in Muad'Dib’s research.

    The final point of all this, was to illustrate that none of those 4 lads survived. Multiple reports came in that day, and were even reported by several news outlets, that the suspected ‘suicide bombers’ had been shot and killed (neutralized), after the bombs went off, and miles away from where the bombs went off, which meant they couldn’t possibly have been the ones who planted them (and thus to commit suicide with).

    They had to be silenced.

    In my personal opinion, whatever group, power, or agency carried out 7/7, the same group carried out 9/11. I think it’s reasonable to assume this: the same people were responsible for both, for the same reason, and so quite probably with same modus operandi - in that Atta, and all the other ‘terrorists’ that day were set up. We already know that a similar training exercise was taking place on the east coast on September 11th, so perhaps the 19 hijackers were part of that as well - as assets, simply playing the part of would-be terrorists. They had a plan, a script to follow, and were playing their parts in what they thought was a drill, going where they had to go, catching flights they had to catch (perhaps the Israeli operative on Flight 11 was also part of it). And just like those young muslim men on 7/7,a time probably came when they collectively realised something was very wrong: this was not a drill, it was the real thing - it was a frame up. By then, they knew very well what was going to happen.

    I believe, personally, that the hijackers are dead. They have to be dead. Even if they were on those planes, I don’t believe they hijacked them, or flew them into the WTC, or the Pentagon. The planes were either piloted remotely, “maybe” while they were on board, or they were landed, and replaced with other planes (or something more exotic), but in either case, the hijackers, and every other passenger, to keep the lid on the whole nasty business, were killed then and there. They could not and would not risk any witnesses talking, or showing their face again. Alternatively, perhaps, Atta and the rest, being assets, were given new identities and sent underground. But I don’t think so. I don't believe any of them ever saw the sun come up on September 12th. They are all dead, long dead. Mohammed Atta’s father may well have talked to his son at some point before the attacks, but the day after?

    Quote "As I saw the picture of my son," he said, "I knew that he hadn't done it. My son called me the day after the attacks on September 12 at around midday. We spoke for two minutes about this and that.
    "He didn't tell me where he was calling from. At that time neither of us knew anything about the attacks."
    The highlighted part is a problem for me. Is there anyone on earth who didn’t know about the terrible events in New York and elsewhere the previous day, and the twin towers falling? I mean, he possibly didn’t, but if this report is true, and we are led to believe Atta was in Boston, Portland (and potentially NY) on 9/11 – in America for certain – then absolutely he knew. It seems strange that the pair would only talk about ‘this and that’ and not mention the most devastating terror attack in US history. Also, Atta was named in the press as part of the terror plot on September 12th, the day of the alleged phone call. Again, talking to his father about only this and that sounds really iffy to me. I would imagine that his father would of course want to distance his family as much as possible from the atrocity, and deny his own blood had anything to do with it, so that may have been his motivation for the above statement that his son was innocent, and still alive. But I believe Atta died on the day of the attack.

    Sorry for the length of this post...
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    @Star Mariner, there is too much talking at cross-purposes for me to respond in detail to your post. If you want to see this as an intelligence differential between us, then I am happy to concede my relative weakness, because I won’t be responding on that level. Let me rather continue where I left off. There comes a point when it is not about being intelligent, but about being smart: not the same thing.

    There are two kinds of people: those that suffer trauma, and those that seek to reduce trauma in and around themselves. Trauma comes from being overpowered in some way. I suggested magic was a notion that can be overpowering by taking you beyond your present understanding – not into the impossible but into the totally novel. Cognitive dissonance is another tool whereby your present understanding is flatly contradicted: e.g. an Illuminati favourite: your supposedly loving parents doing horrible things to you – you have to update your understanding pretty damn quick to survive. Or the extended version for the rest of us: our supposedly well-meaning governments doing horrible things to us. Again, you have to update your understanding asap to survive. For major trauma-creating events like 911, that means as soon as you have an inkling of what has been going on, you metaphorically get out of the building. Unless you belong to the emergency services and are there to minister to survivors.

    It doesn’t matter how the magician is pulling off his trick. If it’s harmless, you enjoy being taken in. If it’s not, you hasten away before you are traumatized. The 911 scene is no different: you have traumatized survivors on the one hand and trauma aid helpers on the other. It’s like there are still people in the building before it has finished collapsing. For some we are still in the emergency rescue phase. The inquiry stage will come later. For others the healing process has started.

    Shock is a form of intoxication. If you lay on an unlimited supply of alcohol, even the heaviest drinkers are going to get drunk. The only people who will stay sober, apart from the teetotallers, are those who say “No thanks (I’m driving)” or “No more thanks, I’ve had enough”. Intoxication operates on two levels: the problem is not what a substance does to your mouth or stomach (on the contrary, it tastes and feels good, which is precisely how it gets into you); it’s what it does to your brain. Similarly, if you lay on an unlimited supply of shock, even the toughest of us are going to be traumatized. The only people who will stay in a normal state, apart from the unshockable psychopaths, are those who do not partake at all, or do so with moderation. Likewise the physical trauma is usually secondary to the mental trauma, and this false flag operation, which didn’t cause as much physical destruction as it might have done, has caused huge mental trauma to millions.

    There is literally overwhelming evidence that 911 was an inside job, which means that all these people are literally overwhelmed. You have to know when another dose is not going to do you any good. If you accept Rebekah Roth as a qualified researcher, which I agree she is, as an experienced flight attendant (just as I am a qualified researcher in the analysis of what people are saying), then you heed what she is saying. She says the planes were landed long before the attacks. That means that, if aircraft are your “tipple”, then any talk of them after that early point is over-indulging in the fog of intoxication. You can talk as intelligently as you like about planes hitting towers, but it’s not a smart thing to do. If you are listening to Rebekah, that simply couldn’t have happened.

    This is the sort of thing that might give someone (e.g. Bill) the impression that you are uninformed: you are not going to be able to discuss that with Rebekah because her position simply draws a line through that entire debate. The haze of the overwhelming relies partly on our inability to say “Enough”. This is just a small example. If I accept Rebekah’s analysis on this point, then I am not going to listen to any more talk of planes after they landed. It doesn’t matter what it was: it just wasn’t those planes. I won’t have my mind messed about like this.

    Then, scaling this up to the 911 event as a whole, there comes a point where you know enough about what this is all about to be able to stop scratching at all the details. The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and you get out altogether, and get back to living your life as it should be lived, preferably even further away from the evils of power and money and violence than before. That’s maybe not the intelligent thing to do, but it’s the smart therapeutic thing to do.

    I personally would definitely not be “going back for more” by dragging 7/7 into this or by claiming that everyone in the world had to know about 911 on 912. If I had been away on holiday, I for one would not have known, go figure. Fortunately, there are people and places that remain outside all this drama: however huge, let’s not make it even huger.


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