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Thread: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

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    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Just a thought that popped into my head this morning ....
    ( not all bright ideas are necessarily good ones )...LOL

    But I would Like to be a metaphoric fly on the wall ,
    meaning all of us interested researchers looking for the
    alternate Q & A's not touched or deliberately covered
    up by the mainstream. So a Skype conversation
    between Bill and Andrew would be very educational
    imo.

    Andrew is a very good researcher as is Bill , who I
    have every faith in otherwise I and others interested
    in these vast topics would not be here.....


    Andrew Johnsons web site
    http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php





    And Building 7 Uhm !!

    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 19th September 2015 at 09:43.

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    UK Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    She says the planes were landed long before the attacks. That means that, if aircraft are your “tipple”, then any talk of them after that early point is over-indulging in the fog of intoxication. You can talk as intelligently as you like about planes hitting towers, but it’s not a smart thing to do. If you are listening to Rebekah, that simply couldn’t have happened.
    If you're trying to teach me that 9/11 was an inside job, you're preaching the choir.

    I like to think freely for myself, and to ask questions when they occur to me. Rebekah has great information, and many things tally up in my mind, but I don't have to take everything I hear at face value. You speak as if this is the full story, the unabridged, 100% concrete truth, backed up with solid proof all the way down the line. It isn't. Rebekah is a researcher, and a very useful one with the background she has - she has made an excellent contribution with her evidence.

    But I still have plenty of questions, and a few niggling doubts - which I am perfectly entitled to have. Apparently I am in a minority. But I would've preferred not to have been made to feel obtuse or 'uninformed' for trying to express them.

    Anyway, I think it's time to leave this thread behind. Thank you araucaria for taking the time to talk about these things with me, and your many wise words. Let’s just agree to disagree, and part in friendship.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote But I still have plenty of questions, and a few niggling doubts - which
    I am perfectly entitled to have. Apparently I am in a minority. But I would've
    preferred not to have been made to feel obtuse or 'uninformed' for trying to express them.
    I don't think anyone has presented the full picture as far as I'm aware so asking
    questions is very legitimate , and I doubt if any one knows all the Q & A on the
    subject . Apart from those who believe the mainstream story and are content to
    leave it at that as most people just want to carry on their own lives in all its various
    forms and realities. I also doubt if those who planned it know the whole picture.
    Compartmentalisation seems to be common practice in all these 'False Flags '
    and 'pyops' .

    All I'm sure about is Bin Laden, Afghanistan, Iraq , Libya , Yemen , Syria and the
    ever threat to Iran,had nothing to do with it. Apart from giving them the excuse to
    execute this on going 'war on Terror'.Then you get on to the Geo political picture
    that goes hand in hand with all this and is the reason Syrian and other
    refugees are fleeing the area.

    9/11 only makes sense from a Neo -Con , Zionist 'greater Israel / American century
    angle. It makes no sense from a Muslim angle !! Other than from Saudi and other
    pro western oil states interests , which are tied into the world elites.

    The ISIS Conspiracy Origins & The Creation of Israel - By Brandon Martinez on Red Ice Radio
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Red-Ice-Radio

    Plans for Middle East - U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark

    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 19th September 2015 at 20:45.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    She says the planes were landed long before the attacks. That means that, if aircraft are your “tipple”, then any talk of them after that early point is over-indulging in the fog of intoxication. You can talk as intelligently as you like about planes hitting towers, but it’s not a smart thing to do. If you are listening to Rebekah, that simply couldn’t have happened.
    If you're trying to teach me that 9/11 was an inside job, you're preaching the choir.

    I like to think freely for myself, and to ask questions when they occur to me. Rebekah has great information, and many things tally up in my mind, but I don't have to take everything I hear at face value. You speak as if this is the full story, the unabridged, 100% concrete truth, backed up with solid proof all the way down the line. It isn't. Rebekah is a researcher, and a very useful one with the background she has - she has made an excellent contribution with her evidence.

    But I still have plenty of questions, and a few niggling doubts - which I am perfectly entitled to have. Apparently I am in a minority. But I would've preferred not to have been made to feel obtuse or 'uninformed' for trying to express them.

    Anyway, I think it's time to leave this thread behind. Thank you araucaria for taking the time to talk about these things with me, and your many wise words. Let’s just agree to disagree, and part in friendship.
    I would not recommend leaving this thread behind. Bookmark and stay in the periphery of being ready. My opinion.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Star Mariner, I hope you do not leave this thread. I find your questions and thoughts on what might have happened well-considered and thoughtful. And I am a bit disturbed by some of the posts suggesting that you are uninformed and/or that you should stop questioning Roth or stop asking questions in general. I also found your information about 7/7 relevant and useful. Thank you.

    Some posters apparently think Roth has the entire 9-11 problem solved, at least when it comes to the planes and where they went, how the calls were made, and what happened to the passengers. Because they have arrived at this opinion, apparently anyone else who continues to ask questions or have doubts about whether her theory is entirely correct is not SMART. I disagree.

    Rebekkah Roth may have gotten some things right, but I know for a fact that she has gotten at least some details wrong. I won't discuss this in any further detail here, but in some of her earlier interviews after Book 1 she was giving a detail that I happen to know was incorrect. I privately wrote to Roth and informed her of her error, we went back and forth a couple times, and she has now fixed the error (at least in her interview with Bill). Yes, Roth has put a lot of time into her research, and has added to the greater understanding in my opinion, but she does not know everything. Indeed, as pointed out by others already, there are some very intelligent 9-11 researchers who have some issues with her Westover AFB theory, including the question of whether all four flights could land at Westover with the time allotted from the official stated time of take-off to the times the calls were made (which presumably all had to be made from the ground). Truth and Shadows, a blog that I have visited periodically, has a guest article by Paul Zarembka, a long-time 9-11 researcher, who goes into some of these technical issues with Roth's Westover AFB theory and the timing of the calls in more detail.

    https://truthandshadows.wordpress.co...lanes-on-9-11/

    Roth says that she's using all the government documents to form her opinions and piece together her puzzle. Ok. But why should we trust those documents? If the government is in on the whole thing, couldn't they have manufactured/doctored that evidence too? (e.g., aren't we are provided with the transcripts or the audio recordings of the calls by the government?)

    I appreciate Roth's efforts and I do think she has some credible theories. However, I don't think the 9-11 event has been solved. Therefore, I appreciate all of those researchers who continue to contribute to the solving of this mass murder/ritualistic trauma of billions. I would like to think that this forum allows differences of opinion on this most heinous and most complex of crimes, and I do not like the shaming posts at all. We are all trying to get to the freaking truth here.

    Love,

    Awakeningmom

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Good points AMom. If you can read between the lines you'll see a warning alarm peppered in this thread.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Awakeningmom, if there is one word of Rebekah’s that we need to listen to, it is ‘methodical’. We have to be methodical here of all places, otherwise we are going to be sifting through a pile of seemingly unrelated clues, as if no forensic work had already been done on them – which is what I meant by ‘reinventing the wheel’.

    This means taking a given fact along with the conclusions to be drawn from it. Fact: cell phone calls were (are) impossible at the aircraft’s advertised altitude. Conclusion 1: the plane was on or near the ground. Further blanket conclusion: after this detour on or near the ground, none of the plane’s subsequent movements can have been as advertised. The rest is merely fleshing out: it is obviously easier to flesh out a hard fact than a mere hypothesis. Questioning subsequent parts of the story may not be uninformed, but it is unmethodical, or if you prefer, off-topic: the story doesn’t go there, unless it’s a diversionary subplot. We all go harmlessly off-topic from time to time, the problem with this being that it is also a diversionary tactic favored by trolls. I am not suggesting there are any trolls on this thread, simply that we have to be methodical. We don’t need trolls if we do their work for them.

    If you are methodical over the above question, you can either deny the fact by saying that phone calls could indeed be made at altitude. Or you can contend that the calls were made by people on the ground while the plane was in the air. Even if this were true, then it is a major discrepancy from the official story. Starting at this very early point, the official story becomes a huge lie, and the appropriate response is not to believe a word of it from this point on. If the people making the calls were not where they are said to be, then it becomes exceedingly likely that neither was Mohammed Atta where he is claimed to have been, and we should not be surprised to hear corroborating evidence that he was alive and well somewhere else.

    Being methodical means grappling with this one issue to the exclusion of ALL other facts, evidence, testimonies… You can start from any anomaly and ask yourself what else is wrong with the story, but if this one initial element holds no water, then the foundation of the entire story collapses. Rebekah is by no means the first to point out this fact. Her biggest contribution is to add her flight attendant’s confirmation and informed (plus well researched) explanation to flesh it out.

    My observations were not simply preaching to the choir, Star Mariner. This is a busy 24/7 forum – around a thousand visitors at a minimum at off-peak periods (when the Americans have gone to bed). We are also writing for them, and they will include people who are still undecided about 911, whom we need to be helping. This is something Rebekah Roth is doing extremely well, and rather than picking holes in her material, we need to focus on working together on achieving that goal. Sure, no one is going to get everything right, but then you need to decide whether you are going to adopt a forgiving or an unforgiving attitude with someone who is on your side. See this post.


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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)

    This is a busy 24/7 forum – around a thousand visitors at a minimum at off-peak periods (when the Americans have gone to bed). We are also writing for them, and they will include people who are still undecided about 911, whom we need to be helping. This is something Rebekah Roth is doing extremely well, and rather than picking holes in her material, we need to focus on working together on achieving that goal.
    Amen to that!

    It takes far more skill and wisdom to assemble a synthesis than to pick holes in someone else's honest hard work.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    ..........
    Last edited by Redstar Kachina; 22nd October 2015 at 01:52.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    With the books and interviews, Roth must be awakening the American people by tens of thousands everyday in addition to the growing numbers. The PTB must respond to this wave by either giving up their plans or acting asap. My worry is that since the former is not an option for them, they will indeed use a nuclear false flag to realize their thousand year old dream as predicted.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Dr. Bill Deagle has mentioned that Israel is in possession of a doomsday device, one that they would use as a last resort to take out their enemies and the rest of the planet.

    I first heard him speak of it in one of his early interviews on Project Camelot. It's no doubt available in the archive section, but I don't recall which interview it was. He only mentioned it in passing, though, and gave no useful details - just enough to give me the willies. Maybe he expands on this somewhere else?

    Brian


    Quote Posted by w1ndmill (here)
    Rebekah mentioned Israel's Samson Option:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

    Anyone know a hairdresser called Delilah?
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 23rd September 2015 at 02:56.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)
    My worry is that since the former is not an option for them, they will indeed use a nuclear false flag to realize their thousand year old dream as predicted.
    I don't think so. It was nuclear technology during the great war between the controllers and the indigenous, way back some 13,000 years ago, which created such heat, that water rained down from the exploded planet Tiamat, the ice chunks which were floating in the asteroid belt melting, that flooded the earth, and almost caused the extinction of planet earth and her inhabitants.

    All of the ancient technologies were lost and it has taken them some 13,000 years to restore what was lost. I don't think they want to do that again, and neither do we. We have this cataclysm in our race memory, imbedded in our very DNA, and this is what the controllers use against us to stimulate the fear adrenaline response, cause they know how deep this memory goes.

    No nuclear holocaust this time around,
    Last edited by gripreaper; 21st September 2015 at 03:57.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)

    This is a busy 24/7 forum – around a thousand visitors at a minimum at off-peak periods (when the Americans have gone to bed). We are also writing for them, and they will include people who are still undecided about 911, whom we need to be helping. This is something Rebekah Roth is doing extremely well, and rather than picking holes in her material, we need to focus on working together on achieving that goal.
    Amen to that!

    It takes far more skill and wisdom to assemble a synthesis than to pick holes in someone else's honest hard work.
    I'm always of the opinion that even a embedded shill and disturber can help move the pile forward, if you look at things the right way, and handle them the right way. To understand that moving forward is critical, gaining critical mass is, well, critical.

    That picking apart someone's work, is not the best thing. To get the message out that 9/11 was done by a team of donkeys from Omaha and Albuquerque, and if the people believe that and get past the moment and move to fixing the mess, that's a good thing.


    Mini nukes, demolition charges, actual empty planes, or holographs, or planes full of people, I really don't care ----and neither should anyone else, with regard to spending time sidetracked in an argument about minutia, outside of the necessity to understand it was an inside job.

    Just get it in the public's head...... and the rush of energy will take care of the rest. If someone is throwing logs onto the fire, and the fire is gaining in size... then that's good enough, as that is the important part, IMO and IME.

    One might note how they run these false flag ops..which is to initiate and then..fix it in the mix, as passing through the initial moment of the movement is the thing that creates the ability to move the herd. They do things in this sort of way and methodology, as this is the technique that functions. They initiate, and then work through and control the unfolding of the after.
    Last edited by Carmody; 21st September 2015 at 04:55.
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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Awakeningmom, if there is one word of Rebekah’s that we need to listen to, it is ‘methodical’. We have to be methodical here of all places, otherwise we are going to be sifting through a pile of seemingly unrelated clues, as if no forensic work had already been done on them – which is what I meant by ‘reinventing the wheel’.

    This means taking a given fact along with the conclusions to be drawn from it. Fact: cell phone calls were (are) impossible at the aircraft’s advertised altitude. Conclusion 1: the plane was on or near the ground. Further blanket conclusion: after this detour on or near the ground, none of the plane’s subsequent movements can have been as advertised. The rest is merely fleshing out: it is obviously easier to flesh out a hard fact than a mere hypothesis. Questioning subsequent parts of the story may not be uninformed, but it is unmethodical, or if you prefer, off-topic: the story doesn’t go there, unless it’s a diversionary subplot. We all go harmlessly off-topic from time to time, the problem with this being that it is also a diversionary tactic favored by trolls. I am not suggesting there are any trolls on this thread, simply that we have to be methodical. We don’t need trolls if we do their work for them.

    If you are methodical over the above question, you can either deny the fact by saying that phone calls could indeed be made at altitude. Or you can contend that the calls were made by people on the ground while the plane was in the air. Even if this were true, then it is a major discrepancy from the official story. Starting at this very early point, the official story becomes a huge lie, and the appropriate response is not to believe a word of it from this point on. If the people making the calls were not where they are said to be, then it becomes exceedingly likely that neither was Mohammed Atta where he is claimed to have been, and we should not be surprised to hear corroborating evidence that he was alive and well somewhere else.

    Being methodical means grappling with this one issue to the exclusion of ALL other facts, evidence, testimonies… You can start from any anomaly and ask yourself what else is wrong with the story, but if this one initial element holds no water, then the foundation of the entire story collapses. Rebekah is by no means the first to point out this fact. Her biggest contribution is to add her flight attendant’s confirmation and informed (plus well researched) explanation to flesh it out.

    My observations were not simply preaching to the choir, Star Mariner. This is a busy 24/7 forum – around a thousand visitors at a minimum at off-peak periods (when the Americans have gone to bed). We are also writing for them, and they will include people who are still undecided about 911, whom we need to be helping. This is something Rebekah Roth is doing extremely well, and rather than picking holes in her material, we need to focus on working together on achieving that goal. Sure, no one is going to get everything right, but then you need to decide whether you are going to adopt a forgiving or an unforgiving attitude with someone who is on your side. See this post.
    Araucaria,
    I really do not know what you mean about needing to be “methodical” and why you seem to think that no-one else is capable of that other than Roth – or perhaps yourself? I have to agree with Star Mariner in his post at #153: I am also having a hard time trying to figure out what YOUR particular opinion is on the entire 9-11 event and why you seem to be so dismissive of Star Mariner’s thoughts and questions, which seem quite intelligent and SMART to me. Frankly, although you suggest that he/she is being “off-topic” for questioning subsequent parts of the story once the calls prove (to your satisfaction) that the planes could not have been in the air at the time the calls were made, Star Mariner’s posts at #113 and #153 seem far more on-topic to me in a thread about 9-11 than the analogies/references to great works of literature that you often like to make.

    Rebekah Roth has a theory. Her theory may be partially true and partially incorrect. Her theory on what happened to the planes and the passengers “fits” rather well, given what we think we know about the alleged phone calls and when they were supposedly made. But you seem to think that there is only ONE logical conclusion to be drawn from the “fact” that the calls could not have been made from the aircrafts’ advertised altitudes. However, I see a number of possible conclusions – even if you accept the impossibility of high-altitude calls:

    Conclusion 1: the planes the passengers were on were on or near the ground when the calls were made. Thus, whatever anyone saw (or felt) that day in any of the target areas were not those planes or any planes at all. Instead, whatever anyone saw was holographic. (this seems to be what you are suggesting, although again, it is hard to find this opinion clearly stated in any of your posts). The problem with this theory is that there are a lot of witnesses who say they SAW or even FELT planes hit – at least at the WTC and over the Pentagon (not Shanksville). Were the holographs that good? Was EVERYONE in NYC and D.C area mind-controlled to see (and feel) these as real? In my opinion, problems/further questions remain with this theory.

    Conclusion 2: the planes the passengers were on were on or near the ground when the calls were made. But the targets were hit by other real (not holographic) things, which could include drones or other military aircraft or perhaps missiles – maybe different things at different targets. This to me seems more plausible than a collective mind-control of all potential witnesses near the target areas, and if the targets were indeed dustified, it also solves the problem of the lack of identifiable airplane/missile parts. But there is of course the problem of what we SAW on TV – a plane flying into a building like a knife through butter. And the smallish hole at the Pentagon. And the lack of Pentagon footage. So, in my opinion, problems/further questions also remain with this theory.

    Conclusion 3: The calls were pre-recorded by those who were either in on it or who were tricked into thinking they were participating in a drill. The real commercial airplanes hit the real targets but were piloted by remote control technology, not by the 19 men who may or may not have ever gotten onto those planes. Advanced weapons technology still explains the lack of identifiable plane parts in target areas.

    Conclusion 4: The calls were made using advanced voice morphing technology – as other, earlier researchers have theorized. Since many on the undersold airplanes were military, Military-Industrial Complex, or airline personnel, getting recordings of their voices to later mimic shouldn’t have been too hard.

    Conclusion 5: Some of the alleged calls never really happened. The public was provided with false transcripts of calls that didn’t happen. This seems particularly easy to fake where the calls were made to random people (e.g., the supposed reservation agent) or to known insiders (Ted Olsen). The few calls that were provided to the public with actual audio were potentially created in advance (by those in on it, or by those who thought they were participating in a drill, etc.).

    There are probably more options beyond those listed above – all stemming from the fact that the calls (as we were told they happened) couldn’t have been made from high altitude. So while I agree with you that the fact that the calls could not have happened AS WE WERE TOLD puts everything else about the event into question, I do not necessarily agree that that means, without a shadow of a doubt, that the ONLY logical conclusion to that fact therefore means that: (1) the planes were flown to Westover AFB, where (2) the passengers were all forced to make very strange calls that don’t make a lot of sense, before (3) they were all gassed/killed/sent to Mars, etc.

    Indeed, for me, it is hard to fathom that a cabal methodical enough and powerful enough to plot this mass murder out years in advance would make the stupid, neophyte mistake of mixing up their victims’ cue cards (even making the ridiculous mistake of having the flight attendant give out the wrong seat number of the purported box-cutter victim and then making her call back and change the seat because the outrageous screw up would reveal that the dubious victim was an Israeli counter-terrorism assassin! Yeah. Oops…. What is wrong with wanting to figure out why these calls are so odd and why this doesn't make a lot of sense?

    I also think there’s some disconnect in your suggesting that once we realize that the whole official narrative is a lie we should just walk away from the trauma and stop trying to figure out/squabble over the actual details. If details didn’t matter, if many of us weren’t still interested in piecing the puzzle together, then why would we even be interested in hearing what Rebekkah Roth had to say in the first place? Why would we buy her book? (and I did).

    Finally, I don’t think it is disrespectful to “poke holes” in Roth’s material just because she’s “on [our] side.” I think there’s something sycophantic about accepting any 9-11 researcher’s conclusions wholesale – no one has it 100% yet. I also really despise when the “troll” word is trotted out. Throughout his/her posts, it was so blatantly clear that Star Mariner was a legitimate truth seeker and that he/she in no way countenanced the official narrative. That he/she felt chastised enough to leave this thread really saddens me.

    Awakeningmom

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Just found this video made by "sw3de" a swede I suppose starting with a lot of "hiding in plain sight". Some info here turn - Mercury retrograde- things upside down for me like some of our wellknown conspiracy theorists also lying - or just being ignorant? - accusing those who question there were any passanger planes crashing into the Twin Towers to be lying :
    Some minutes after midnight 9/11 2001 after watching the news turning off my TV as i looked up "The prophecies by Nostradamus" a birthday gift I got in the 1980:s that I had never opened before I found an interpretation of quatrain V1 verse 97: "The original translation was: On the 45:th latitude the sky is burning approaching the new city" There are 3 interpretations and the third one is "New York is bombed"...

    Synchronicity hit me right there in the core of my being There are also predictions about conflicts arising between the Muslim and the Western world around the years of 2000....

    Next morning my TV was broke and I put it in the attic....

    Mercury will be retrograding for some 3 weeks reflecting increased tendency for misunderstandings and disinformation...just sayin´

    ..which just happened! I wrote 2011 instead of 2001!!! Which makes no sense of course since then it would not have been much of a synchronicity...I had been watching the the news and "planes crushing" into the Twin Towers the very day it happened of course. I just made the correction.
    Last edited by transiten; 21st September 2015 at 20:53.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    awakeningmom, we’ve been here before. Let me refer you back to a response I made to you a while, back, notably its first paragraph. But at the same time, let me repeat that I am not talking specifically to any one individual such as yourself or Star Mariner. These are much wider issues. So please do not take anything personally.

    Quote awakeningmom, I am really sorry that you lost someone on 911; I am afraid it didn’t fully register with me until now, my apologies. (I also need to apologize for taking a whole week to get back to this.) I can imagine that things others say, myself included, would appear pretty insensitive when one is in that position. But the only purpose in going over this stuff is to put an end to the innocent deaths being perpetrated by the authors of this kind of atrocity.
    As you say, this cabal involves ‘too many high-ups’ to be a simple matter of ‘bringing the murderers to justice’, as you also say. Here is why the ‘nuts and bolts’ (the physical mechanics) of the situation at some stage lose the relevance they undoubtedly also have. The issue is information overload: it is well known that once you start down the rabbit-hole, you soon find it is endless. Human justice tries people one at a time, and whether convicted or not, they are merely heads lopped off the hundred-headed monster.
    Since I am responding to you again, you can see I am not “walking away from the trauma” but on the contrary trying to help people deal with it (myself included). The trauma here means going endlessly round the block until you realize that that is not getting you anywhere. Read Carmody’s post:
    Quote Mini nukes, demolition charges, actual empty planes, or holographs, or planes full of people, I really don't care ----and neither should anyone else, with regard to spending time sidetracked in an argument about minutia, outside of the necessity to understand it was an inside job.
    Your comment “I think there’s something sycophantic about accepting any 9-11 researcher’s conclusions wholesale” does not apply to me since I am only discussing a single point. You go on, “no one has it 100% yet”, which is exactly my point in saying “Sure, no one is going to get everything right”. So, ultimately, what I am reading are words of agreement presented as disagreement. That’s perfectly OK; we are not arguing, we are simply talking things through. Regarding this one point, you have described five more ways of reaching the same conclusion as me, namely that the very first indication of anything being amiss on 911 was basically untrue, i.e. a blatant lie. All I am saying is that this one clue can and should be sufficient to stop listening to anything after that point. This is simply a shortcut that not everyone will take of course, no problem with that, but all the same, it is there for the taking.

    Let me illustrate what I’m driving at with a different type of phone call.
    If someone calls you and you can hear five different phone conversations going on in the background, you may say “if you are calling from a call centre, no thank you, I’m not interested”. The cold caller will try to stop you hanging up straightaway by saying “No, this is the XXX Institute researching this that or the other”, or “You have won a prize”. You can play along and prolong this conversation as long as you like, but the bottom line is that they have something to sell, exactly like the call centre they have been representing all along. In other words, they will waste just as much of your time as you are willing to waste. The fact is that enough people are still playing along, right to the end point of actually buying the commodity for sale, to perpetuate the system that is a plague on everyone else. It is a plague because instead of being in charge, you are having largely unwanted stuff shoved down your throat – and even if the product might be useful, the process is unacceptably disempowering.

    It is not being insensitive to say that the 911 propaganda is no different. I did not suggest “walking away from the trauma”; I suggested walking away from the BS as a way of lessening the trauma: not the same thing at all. Walking away is part of the grieving process and ultimately the only solution. I agree that details matter. I am actually saying that one (any) single detail matters so much that it can lead you to decide the whole thing for you. What this trigger will be and how much corroboration you need to hear will vary from person to person. That is perfectly understandable, but some people can never hear enough, which is what I meant by intoxication. There is also intoxication with intoxication, i.e. addiction, and doubtless addiction to addiction… There is nothing moralizing or judgemental about this. Addiction is merely getting caught in a seemingly endless loop.

    What we are contending with is an addiction to addiction: an endless loop of endless loops, of which 911 is just one example. We are all in this together, which is why I am still posting here. Star Mariner has dropped out of the loop that has been created on this thread, which I see as a good thing. He has not lost an argument, he has simply heard enough and in his own words agreed to disagree in friendship, and I accept and share that friendly attitude. That doesn’t sound like chastised and chastiser to me. The important thing is not the discussion per se but the quality of the ensuing silence. This is a paradoxical thing to say on and about a discussion forum, but I am happy to practise what I preach and leave this thread right now. You might want to do the same.


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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Thank you for your kind suggestion that I leave the thread, Araucaria, but I think I will exercise my own sovereignty and make my own decisions about what threads to join or to leave. You of course are free to do as you offered, and leave this thread yourself, or change your mind and stay as you wish.

    I am frankly not even sure what your position on the appropriate/acceptable level of discourse in this thread is anymore. At times, you seem to acknowledge that other people may be in different stages of their 9-11 investigation/awakening and may not yet be ready to “walk away” from trying to figure out certain details -- and you say you have “no problem with that.” (“What this trigger will be and how much corroboration you need will vary from person to person. That is completely understandable….”).

    However, the posts in response to Star Mariner (and to me) suggest instead that those who are in a different stage than you –or who may have some questions about Roth’s theories -- should keep their opinions to themselves, since those opinions are apparently: (a) muddying the waters, (b) interfering with our “helping” along of those who aren’t yet aware of 9-11 Truth, (c) offending Roth, who is on our side; or (d) simply contradicting your own current understanding of what went down that day. And apparently, anyone who is not willing to simply leave it at “inside job” and who has to continue further along with trying to piece together the entire puzzle is simply an addict. But doesn’t that make Rebekah Roth an addict? Isn’t she addicted to piecing together the puzzle herself? I haven’t read Book 2 yet, but I assume that is what she is doing. And doesn’t she have Book 3 in the works? Clearly her 12-step program is not working for her very well. Or are you suggesting that only certain researchers should be allowed to imbibe?

    In my opinion, there are two different audiences for Roth’s books/interviews. Audience 1 is an audience who is relatively (or even entirely) new to 9-11 Truth. Roth has written a highly readable book that makes 9-11 Truth accessible to those who might not otherwise consider it. She also comes off as a very well spoken, no-nonsense person in her interviews. This is one of the reasons I sent my
    Fox-TV watching father Bill’s interview. For this particular audience, I am not concerned if Roth got some things right and some things wrong – the point is to get people realizing that the official narrative was a lie. As you and I both agree (I think), if someone realizes that even one piece of the official narrative is false, he/she is much more likely to come to the conclusion that there must be problems with the rest of it too. One more truth advocate is created – and that’s great with me.

    However, Audience 2, in my opinion, is comprised of those who have already realized that 9-11 was a blatant lie, and is looking to put together the (correct) pieces of the who/what/when/how/why – no matter how impossible this seems. This is how I see the people on PA, particularly those who are drawn to a thread like this (otherwise, why go to a thread like this?). I would venture to guess that no-one stumbles on to PA looking for Beginners Level 9-11 Truth. That’s far more easily obtained via Architects & Engineers, Loose Change, Zeitgeist, and any number of 9-11 Truth sites easily found by a simple internet search of “Was 9-11 a False Flag?”

    Members of Audience 2 have probably already spent a considerable amount of time researching 9-11 on their own, so many people in this second audience aren’t going to so easily accept a brand new synthesis of what happened wholesale, even if they deeply appreciate parts of it. Instead, they may ask further questions, add their own theories, and even poke holes. I thought that is what this forum was all about? A safe and vibrant place to exchange ideas without being cut off or passive-aggressively insulted.

    Yes, I agree that Star Mariner left graciously, particularly given the response he/she got in this thread in response to what I felt were very thoughtful posts. But he/she also said at post #162:

    “But I still have plenty of questions, and a few niggling doubts – which I am perfectly entitled to have. Apparently I am in a minority. But I would’ve preferred not to have been made to feel obtuse or ‘úninformed’ for trying to express them.”

    I have always had a problem with bullies, and I will always stand up to them. And even though you have clothed your responses with intellectual window dressing, I fear that that is what you have become in this particular thread.
    Last edited by awakeningmom; 21st September 2015 at 17:32.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Discussing the 9-11 false flag in a broad scope has value to stimulate one's interest in the big picture, beyond 9-11, and to put pieces of the puzzle together.

    Getting stuck in the fine details of how it was engineered instead of why it was done only serves to divide people.

    Those with resistance to the concept of how we are manipulated probably will find some refuge with the idea that if some detail is wrong, the whole story is wrong. At least until they are tapped on the head with the proverbial 2x4 (lumber).

    The "why" of what was done is far more important than the details. Assigning blame can also be a distraction from understanding what we need to do to navigate past the ditch in the road ahead as comfortably as possible.

    In the near future it is likely that more false flag events are planned. Can we now step back and ask ourselves "What can I do to navigate around the ditch in the road ahead?". It is important to create and execute a plan *now*.

    The most effective manipulative tools used against us are likely to include interruptions of electricity and disruptions in supply lines for restocking grocery stores and fuel.

    While no one can be totally prepared for what is ahead, many can make themselves less susceptible to manipulation by doing some degree of prepping.

    United we stand, divided we fall.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 21st September 2015 at 17:43.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    Quote The "why" of what was done is far more important than the details.
    Assigning blame can also be a distraction from understanding what we need
    to do to navigate past the ditch in the road ahead as comfortably as possible.
    That is what I try to point out on some of my posts. For me its a given 9/11 was
    an inside job. It would be great to find out how ? and prosecute the guilty. But as
    with JFK when the crime is so big and in plain sight its not hard to get the public
    to 'demand' justice. But it is hard to find the truth especially when all the main
    organs of government , military , corporate media and even parts of the judiciary
    are bought and paid for financially or by blackmail and in some cases ignorance
    thru compartmentalisation. Like in the JFK case , when Oswald , Cuba and the
    Soviets could be blamed in the mainstream straight away, and encouraged by
    government. So the same with 9/11 with Bin Laden , Afghanistan and Iraq. All of
    which had nothing to do the neo -con / zionist coup in America on 9/11.But were
    blamed from the get go and many still believe they did it today.....

    Simple facts like , why was no one sacked over the biggest failure in US military
    history ? Quo Bono , who benefited ? follow the money ? The continuing war on
    terror. The Zionist neo-con agenda being played out in front our eyes and much
    more. All in the name of revenge for 9/11.

    So why would any muslim faction or nation have planned this operation knowing
    the 'wrath of the great Satan' in their eyes ? I don't think so.

    History tells us time and time again that these 'false flag' events are organised by
    darker forces behind the scenes of whatever government front or organisation they
    are funding at any particular time.

    Even Admiral Yamamoto when planning the Pearl Harbour attacks knew,
    that waking the sleeping giant would unleash an mil industrial monster
    on the world, that like a rogue Gene would be very difficult to put back
    in its bottle......



    I know most on here know this but there are people looking in all the time..

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On the subject of Japan I knew there was something I wanted to post
    somewhere and most of these actions are linked. Japan has just passed
    a bill allowing them to send combat troops abroad since WW11. This
    is I think to help the US if there is a conflict involving North Korea or
    China in the near future...


    Japan readies for war? New military bill sparks fierce protests

    By David Icke on 20th September 2015



    Published on 19 Sep 2015


    Thousands have rallied in Japan against the controversial military bill, passed by
    the parliament. Since now Japanese forces will be allowed to fight overseas. The
    demonstrations show this is far from being universally welcomed.

    READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/6rqt

    This is also a throw back to imperial Japans secret police.....

    Japan Moves To Totalitarian Surveillance Society

    By David Icke on 21st September 2015

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.Vf_Hft9Vikq


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 22nd September 2015 at 09:07.

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    Default Re: Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015

    It is so true, united we stand.

    The true and high value of sharing information such as this, is waking up the minions. Everyday people are being used for purposes that are not benevolent, or Divine. Many of the whistleblowers are minions who woke up first.

    We are here sharing (information) and caring for each other. I appreciate ALL views as they help me to contemplate many various aspects. All views are “food for thought” and are not positionalities that need to be defended. All are very valuable and they don’t have to be the same. (How could they be?)

    The information is not about who is right. It’s about the useful purpose of it. I WAS A WOULD-BE MINION!!!! (an American public school teacher)

    In my personal experience, I was viewing Bill and Kerry’s interviews and learned the truth about vaccines and the hype to promote a global pandemic. I did further research, too. I downloaded a copy of our county’s “Influenza Pandemic Plan of 2008.” The shadow agenda was right there, locally.

    We did drills where I worked (lockdowns). We were given information from the CDC to promote vaccines in our mandatory public schools. I was asked to take part in that drug pushing inculcation activity. My conscience screamed at me and I quit my job.

    Drills!!!! Who else has to participate in drills at their job??? Pay attention. When I read Rebekah’s book, I realized how anybody could get caught up in participating in these schemes. (Thank you, Rebekah!)

    I meditate daily and my inner perceptions are becoming keener. This ability to discern truth is what we are all evolving abilities around. When your inner perception reads something and jumps up and down and says “That’s TRUE!” there is no mistake about it. Here’s the Divine Purpose: to wake up dormant senses and know and feel what is true and what is not, what is good and right and what is not.

    We are helping each other to discover the truth and put it to good use: the truth WILL make us FREE!!!

    Most people don’t want to quit their jobs when their whole life was spent going into debt to pay for college, or just life, and they don’t know how they will support the debt and pay everyday bills and living expenses. I went homeless for awhile. I have no regrets.

    Although I’ve been poor in money since I quit; I’ve been rich in spiritual wealth. My treasures are surely laid up in Heaven, not on Earthly acquisitions. WE are each other’s wealth. Feel that.

    Unity is wealth.

    I can’t stress enough how grateful I am about how this truth information has affected my life, that I’m no longer a minion, and none of the drills I was involved in went live. I can speak to the strategies they use to push their regime/agenda, but some other time.

    I’m free -- Let’s free our brothers and sisters by continuing to share the Truth.

    Love and gratitude to all,
    Michelle Marie
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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