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Thread: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    11 500 migrants enter Croatia yesterday setting a new daily record

    Migrants continue to be transported to the Slovenian border after arriving in Croatia from Serbia.

    Source: http://voiceofcroatia.hrt.hr/our-new...00-2015-10-25/

    -------------------------------------

    "If We Don't Find A Solution Today, It's The End Of The European Union" - Refugee Crisis Hits Tipping Point

    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/25/2015 13:43 -0400

    After escalating for months, Europe's refugee crisis hit its most serious tipping point yet, when when earlier today European Union leaders held a mini-summit on Sunday debating whether to send hundreds of guards to its borders with the western Balkans, as well as deploying more ships off Greece, as the bloc seeks to balance Germany's welcome for refugees with tougher security measures.

    So far, over 680,000 migrants and refugees have crossed to Europe by sea so far this year, fleeing war and poverty in the Middle East, Africa and Asia, according to the International Organization for Migration. Their goal has been Germany, which has promised sanctuary, however as a result of a populist backlash and concerns over the economy, Merkel's popularity has taken a major hit, sliding to the lowest level in four years.

    Full article at zero hedge

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    FSB warns against terror in border area to Norway

    Citizens of Pechenga asked to be on alert against sucpisious people from North Caucasus and Central Asia. Norwegian Police Security Service do not share the fear of terrorists hiding among the huge number of asylum-seekers.

    From the norwegian msm NRK.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    Ahh the good old "immigration" fear porn.. funny how this comes up every few years and people panic...

    Here's a great commentary video on Immigration and how Australia, the US and Britain are handling it:
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    There's no hidden intention. The young males mentioned above see an opportunity in this chaos and are abusing the situation. Among the refugees there are still Syrians who are fleeing war. The fact that they came with pockets full, doesn't change that what they left behind was dangerous territory.

    And when they arrived here in Europe in early September, they were still very open and honest about that. I saw various interviews where one after the other refugee explicitly said they didn't need welfare, they don't need alms, they'll gladly pay because they have their own money. They just want to be safe and build a new future, they said. Then suspicion started to grow as to how anyone with ample money on them could possibly be a sincere refugee. That's when these people became less outspoken about their financial situation.

    EU and local measures are in the make. There is delay. Perhaps because of the danger of playing into extreme right wing cards, for which this event excellently lends itself.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    The winter is here and there is no place to put all the people. The ones that has not got a roof by now, will live in tents.

    http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/tal...s-nasta-vecka/

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    I find myself appalled at the treatment afforded to Syrian refugees, especially by U.S politicians. It's despicable, un-American and not the kind of country that I want to live in. ****, I don't think I want to live in this WORLD anymore. It's a sick, wretched world. The rise of Donald Trump concerns me. It must be stopped because it foreshadows an even greater evil. The kind of thing I thought I would never see in my lifetime. The same scourge that my grandfather and others fought in WWII. I've warned people for years about playing the anti-immigration/refugee card and it fell on deaf ears. I have had nothing but positive experiences with refugees in our local area regardless of where they come from. I wish more people could see this.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    Sweden has now changed the terms for immigrants and refugees. This is a big change.
    The reason is that this is now making the future insecure for all.
    The system is collapsing.

    I did see films about hackers and anymonus last week and for some reason this is kind of the same thing. Overloaded system.
    I will pray for those out in the cold that they get help soon.

    The willage where I live have expanded from 30 persons to 100 in a week. All are young boys.
    The planet have given you all that you have !
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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    From 30 to 100, wow , it must be quite a shock. This is triple the population, and all in arabic.

    And all Young boys. Why is that, isn't there children and women in the refugee. Why aren't the women protected too and travelling?

    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)
    Sweden has now changed the terms for immigrants and refugees. This is a big change.
    The reason is that this is now making the future insecure for all.
    The system is collapsing.

    I did see films about hackers and anymonus last week and for some reason this is kind of the same thing. Overloaded system.
    I will pray for those out in the cold that they get help soon.

    The willage where I live have expanded from 30 persons to 100 in a week. All are young boys.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    It makes me very sad to read this thread.It appears to me that many contributors are repeating what they see in our,unfortunately,biased media.I was astonished to see someone quoting from the Daily Mail,which shouldn't really be called a newspaper;it is owned by a trouble making right wing aristocrat who is following his own self-serving agenda.I have seen reports,which later appeared to be proved wrong,that most of the refugees are young men.Be careful,people.There's a lot of disinformation out there,and I must admit I'm quite shocked at the tone of some of the messages on this thread.I thought Project Avalon was about empathy and caring for our fellow humans.Even if many of the refugees are not Syrian,one would have to be pretty naive to think that Syria is the only country being torn apart by conflict,drought,famine,and other humanitarian disasters.Love and Peace.

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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    Project avalon is about reality, including the strange ones of ET contact and Cabal eagerness to control. If I have an avalon witness, saying that in her village of 30, they are now 100 and most are Young men, why should I doubt it? This is better report than any newspaper in my estimate.

    As for empathy, of course avalon members would want to be empathetics. It does not resolve the problems though. How do you cope with your 30 people village becoming 100 overnight and will all Young men, who do not speak the language, and where infrastructures are stretch to the maximum? As much empathy as one may have, how do you cope with this? In my street, there is migrants of at least 30 different countries. We cope because they came in a steady Stream, over time and could be somwhat integrated (albeit not totally, still some tensions at times). But how do you do it when it is all of a sudden, and when there is no balance in the migrant population itself?

    Empathy has to play both sides, on the migrants side and on the hosts side too.

    Quote Posted by Jimswitz (here)
    It makes me very sad to read this thread.It appears to me that many contributors are repeating what they see in our,unfortunately,biased media.I was astonished to see someone quoting from the Daily Mail,which shouldn't really be called a newspaper;it is owned by a trouble making right wing aristocrat who is following his own self-serving agenda.I have seen reports,which later appeared to be proved wrong,that most of the refugees are young men.Be careful,people.There's a lot of disinformation out there,and I must admit I'm quite shocked at the tone of some of the messages on this thread.I thought Project Avalon was about empathy and caring for our fellow humans.Even if many of the refugees are not Syrian,one would have to be pretty naive to think that Syria is the only country being torn apart by conflict,drought,famine,and other humanitarian disasters.Love and Peace.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    Good point, Flash, where do they leave the women and children?

    They looked closer into this observation in Belgium and found that Syrian refugees usually arrive here with their entire family (mother, father, children) whereas, among others, the group of Afghani and Iraqi refugees are made up of unaccompanied men.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    I wrote a longer post, but somehow I lost it. Wanted to delete something and it closed the tab instead.

    Regarding the 'men' - there are different causes.
    A route through Turkey - many left their families there to wait for the legal travel when the refugee has the paperwork done and its official.
    Because to get to Greece by boat is expensive and also dangerous.
    Due to weather, bad rubber boats, attacks on people and boats on the sea, fake life vests.
    Attacks from radical racists, but also both countries coast guards. (However both sometimes rescue people)
    However the major rescue is done by volunteers or other helpers.

    Refugees also have the right to state the country they want asylum in, which isn't broadly reported or worth any news article. Reasons can vary again (choosing a country): Friends or family there, language, options for work or continue studying, 'ties' to a country from before the journey or due to experience on the journey.

    Family members could have supported the expensive journey (pooling resources, because its expensive)- to give an opportunity to live a life and not get it stolen. Either the man can find work, a place and can get money to get family or had lost family and is given the chance to go on.
    Syria for instance had more universities given people lived in Syria than my country compared.

    Another reason why men are 'seen' more often - women often don't want to draw additional attention. Not because some books forbids them - many people don't like to be photographed (in my experience). And additional many people still fear for their life even in Europe, to be found and still be killed.
    There are a lot families on their way - but due to photographing issues: more men again.
    Many lost their families to the bombs, which might be due to natural reasons: running faster, being caught by whatever, whomever faster.
    And again additionally: those people walk most of the way, for weeks, for months even.
    There are children born on the way - and since most work and helping is done by volunteers, its actually a disgrace and shame those people have to through all of that - just because they didn't want to get killed by a barrel bomb or phosphor bombs for instance.

    I am a supporter of 'refugees welcome'. I am not even worried about them, and additionally I got - my life improved, through what money can't buy.
    Looking forward to become partner for practicing newly learned language (refugees learning) and getting to know some people. The project will start mid Dec. Since its not an official program due to planning issues - its learning by doing. So its not about learning the language perfectly yet but getting contact and practice words and also enjoy the company.
    10 people (refugees) will start so far, there is room for more though. I will see and maybe there is something to share. I am exited , my darling is excited that I am and happy for me (because its important for me) and a friend is looking forward to meet too. I think my excitement helped, my friend was worried he has nothing to offer - but telling him about scripts I found, and try using hands to explain or just to smile and smoke on a break together is worth more than perfect grammar or pronunciation (I told him though, I don't want to pressure him, and since he seemed to have thought about it (and came to the conclusion he has nothing to offer) - I just pointed out different ways and 'priorities'. )
    And I could see the joy replacing his hesitation and puzzlement. yay

    It was a bit longer than planned, but I wanted to share

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    .
    I copy this here verbatim, from the London Daily Mail, without comment. (I omitted some images as there were too many for one post)

    http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...es-border.html


    EXCLUSIVE - 'We don't want ANY refugees here': George Clooney's super rich Lake Como neighbours say Italian idyll is being RUINED by migrants on their doorstep after Switzerland closes its border

    • Wealthy locals show little sympathy for migrants gathering in Italian idyll as makeshift camps erected across Como
    • Lake Como has long served as tranquil paradise for the rich and famous including Madonna and Donatella Versace
    • Hundreds of migrants sleeping in parks and railway station as Switzerland closes its border closed in crackdown
    • Residents say migrants are not welcome and will stretch resources to breaking point - and deter tourists
    By Nick Fagge In Como, Italy, For Mailonline
    Published: 12:13 GMT, 14 July 2016 | Updated: 14:17 GMT, 14 July 2016
    View comments


    ~~~

    George Clooney's wealthy neighbours in the Alpine beauty spot of Lake Como say their Italian idyll is being ruined by the influx of hundreds of migrants to a makeshift camp on their doorstep.

    The picturesque area is best known as a hide-away for Clooney and a multitude of other Hollywood A-listers includ Brad Pitt, wife Angelina Jolie, and pop superstar Madonna.

    But a clamp-down by Switzerland on illegal immigrants entering the country from Italy threatens to turn this chic resort into a frontier town overrun by the homeless and desperate.


    Paradise lost: George Clooney's wealthy neighbours in the Alpine beauty spot of Lake Como say their Italian idyll is being ruined by the influx of hundreds of migrants to a makeshift camp on their doorstep

    Moving on: They are stuck in Lake Como because Swizerland has closed its border and they are sleeping in camps near the railway station


    Rubbish: Como local authority held a referendum to decide on whether to build a permanent camp, which was rejected by the wealthy residents so now the refugees who have moved up from Italy are forced to sleep rough


    Picturesque: This map shows where the camp at Como railway station is in relation to the banks of Lake Como where stars wine and dine


    Gateway to Europe: Migrants are trapped in their makeshift camp at Como's railway station, which is close to George Clooney's estate as well as the luxury Villa D'Este hotel where guests include Madonna, Bruce Springsteen and former US President JFK

    Restaurant owner Maria Grazia told MailOnline: ‘I don’t want them here.

    ‘Italy has enough problems without trying to solve the problems of the world. We [Italy] should not have to deal with these people on our own.

    ‘Europe [the EU] does nothing to help us. Now they make us – me, my family and other Italian families – pay for them.’

    Housewife Federica, 55, said: ‘A small number of immigrants is not a problem but now they are so many.

    ‘You see them arriving at that the San Giovanni station. They are not poor hungry refugees but they are big and strong.
    ‘People here in Como don’t like them. There are simply too many of them.’

    Tour guide Denise, 67, added: ‘Immigration here in Italy is a problem, a big problem because of the huge numbers who are arriving all the time.’

    Chauffeur Santi, 26, said: ‘It is good for Switzerland that they have closed the border to migrants but it is bad for Italy.

    ‘We simply don’t have the resources to deal with all these new people.

    ‘Italy has lots of problems of our own without having to try to deal with other people’s problems. It is a complex situation.

    ‘It is a lack of resources that is the problem with immigration. Not that we are bad people but that he don’t have the resources to deal with all of these new people arriving in our country.’

    Financial consultant Emilio, 52, said: ‘Immigration is a big problem. I don’t want lots of immigrants coming to Como.

    ‘This will affect our jobs, our resources, and the character of our town.’

    Clooney spends up to four months a year as his lake-side 30-room Villa Oleandra which he bought in 2002, officially putting the up-market destination on the international map.

    He celebrated his marriage to Amal Clooney at the £7.5 million Italian home in the picturesque village of Laglio where he keeps an impressive wine cellar and tours the lake on a motor launch.

    Scenes for Clooney’s heist-movie Oceans Twelve were shot at his Villa Oleandra and actors Emily Blunt and John Krasinski were married in the grounds.

    Co-star Brad Pitt and his wife Angelina Jolie are frequent house guests. Matt Bellamy, frontman of the band Muse, who has his own villa along the shore, often pops in.

    However those who work and live in the area fear the area is being permanently damaged.

    Simona, 27, who works in a shop, said: ‘We don’t need any more immigrants here. They are already all over the town. I really hope the situation will not get any worse. Already they sleep in the park. We don’t want people all over the streets.

    ‘This will only ruin the tourist trade. No one will want to come here.’

    Belgian ex-pat Nico said: ‘This is a complex issue. Europe has to work together to solve this problem. Italy cannot take on the responsibility on its own.’

    Italian newspapers have suggested Como could become a small ‘Ventimiglia’ – the frontier town with France where hundreds of migrants set up a camp and fought pitched battles with police last year after Paris closed the border.

    The lake-side town, just a few miles from the main Italy-Switzerland border, is already home to hundreds of migrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East, with more arriving every day.

    Plans to set up a purpose-built migrant camp on the outskirts of Como had to be scrapped following bad-tempered protests from locals.

    Instead immigrants, who have registered a claim for asylum in Italy, are housed in up to 100 hostels throughout the town. They also receive a Euro 75-a-month subsistence allowance while the demand is processed.

    Others – recent arrivals to the town and those whose asylum applications have been turned down – sleep in makeshift camps and under bridges.

    Already the winding cobbled streets of Como’s old town are overrun by young Asian men hawking umbrellas, flowers and other goods.

    Africans sleep in the parks and North Africans chatter on their mobile phones.

    Some have praised the Swiss for holding back the tide of migrants.

    Ellen and Klaus from Dortmund, Germany, said: ‘Good. I’m pleased to hear that the Switzerland has closed the border. This will help Germany. We [Germany] cannot save the world on our own. Already we have taken in so many thousands of refugees.

    ‘We have had a lot of problems. I don’t know if you know what happened in Cologne on New Years Eve. It only takes a few to cause problems but this was serious.

    ‘No one minds someone who learns the language and gets a job but it’s the others.

    ‘Really other [EU] countries should also help.’

    Others have called for European countries to act together to solve the migrant crisis.

    Student Miriam 24 said: ‘Europe has turned nasty after the Brexit vote. Every country is looking for itself now, that is what I think.

    ‘But people here in Lombardy [region of Como] are open-minded. I don’t know if the town will become like Ventimiglia. But we have to work together to solve this problem with refugees.’

    Tourist Arab Israeli Maher said: ‘I think everyone should be able to travel wherever they want to go. Europe is meant to be a place where you can travel without borders. This should not be just for people from Europe but for everyone from whatever country.’

    Music superstar Madonna, fashion house empress Dontella Versace and millionaire entrepreneur Sir Richard Branson are among his many high-rolling neighbours.

    Diners at the restaurant on Isola Comacina, Lake Como’s only island, have included Princess Margaret, Kirk Douglas, Barbra Streisand, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone and Elton John.

    Banking heir James Rothchild proposed to hotel heiress Nicky Hilton on a boat on the 28-mile lake in the shadow of the Swiss mountains.

    Como’s grand Villa d’Este hotel charges up to £2,000-a-night. Previous guests include the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, US President JFK with Marilyn Monroe and more recently although separately Madonna and Bruce Springsteen.

    And Robert De Niro rubs shoulders with Clooney over cocktails at the lakeside Harry’s Bar where VIPs can enjoy a drink without fear of being photographed, just a few miles from the border.

    Meanwhile African migrants at one hostel have told MailOnline how they were forced to leave Italy because their asylum applications are turned down.

    If their demand is rejected they are no longer eligible to the Euro 75 per month subsistence allowance and are evicted from the hostel.


    Shelter: Makeshift camps have sprung up near San Giovanni station as migrants try to cross the border as hundreds of homeless are camping there before making their onwards journeys to Germany and England



    Rubbish: But their presence has spoiled the idyllic surrounding enjoyed by the wealthy inhabitants, they say as litter is strewn everywhere


    Hopes: Ossas, 39, from Nigeria, said: ‘We want a new life in Italy but we have to move on because Italy often does not accept us as refugees. ‘We have all claimed asylum here in Italy but 90 per cent of claims are refused.


    Dreams: Dumbuya, 23, a teacher from Mali, said: 'I had to come to Europe to save my life. ‘I have not seen my family for four years. I just want to start a new life.’

    Ossas, 39, from Nigeria, said: ‘We want a new life in Italy but we have to move on because Italy often does not accept us as refugees.
    ‘We have all claimed asylum here in Italy but 90 per cent of claims are refused.

    ‘If we are refused we are given seven days to leave the hostel and we no longer receive any money.

    ‘So we have to sleep in the streets and try to find something to eat. That is why we try to go to other countries.’

    Others explained reasons why they risked had their lives to cross the Mediterranean a seek a new life in Europe.

    Dumbuya, 23, a teacher from Mali, said: ‘I am from the north of the country where there is war. I had to leave my country because of the war.

    ‘First I went to Libya and worked there but I was kidnapped by the Islamists and held as a prisoner. I escaped and made my way to the coast.
    ‘I had to come to Europe to save my life.

    ‘I have not seen my family for four years. I just want to start a new life.’

    Lorry driver Lucky Obera, 29, fled his home in Nigeria after receiving death threats.

    He said: ‘I had a crash in my lorry and killed a man. Then his family tried to kill me. I had to escape.

    Idris, 23, from Senegal, fled when Islamist rebels tried to force him to become a fighter.

    He said: ‘The rebels came to my village and said I had to join them in their fight. I ran away. I made my way to Libya and got on a boat.
    ‘It was a small rubber boat with a capacity for 80 people. But the smugglers made 150 get on boat.

    ‘The journey was terrible. We were in the sea for four days. It was hell. Some 30 people died on the journey.

    ‘Finally on the night of the fourth day we were rescued and taken to Sicily.'
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th July 2016 at 14:34.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    Italy sees high level of migratory pressure in June (excerpt)

    Quote Migratory pressure in the Central Mediterranean region remained high in June, with the number of migrants arriving in Italy last month increasing by 24% from the previous month to some 22 500. The total for the first half of this year reached around 69 500, close to the figure from a year ago.
    frontex.europa.eu 2016-07-19

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    The matter is too complicated, complex, diverse to be reduced to a merciless clash of opinions. The best one can do is collecting information from all sides, and opinions too, yes - but not getting stuck with a provisional, supposed 'truth'.

    I very much appreciate articles like the one above (Bill's post # 93) which provide original (although generalized) statements from various viewpoints in one place (the 'poor' rich with their idyllic sceneries ruined, rightly concerned and scared citizens, directly affected local residents, self-righteous tourists, the celebrities' hypocrisy, migrants (young, strong, yes and apparently still optimistical, many smiling and self-confident) in a desperate situation with no choices, and probably not all of them suitable for 'our' neat, clean, white suburbs. How many of us have ever been in circumstances where one had nothing to lose?

    Is it a crime to search for a better life? The propaganda machine of the agents and human traffickers who lure people in direction Europe is something different, of course. Big business. And who, and which agenda is behind that!

    Maybe even the most biased, distorted panic-mongering statements and videos serve a purpose of showing the deep-rooted hatred (based on fear, what else?) of large portions of the population against anything that is different.

    I have my opinions too, though I'm far from the slightest idea of any workable solution. I'm afraid there is none within the millenia-old but still current political and social paradigm. I just try not to stumble and fall into the too well laid-out traps (in MS- and alternative media) - and if it happens, to climb out of the pit and have a very close look around me.



    PS.

    On the other hand: Please look at the 'rubbish'- pictures. Since when do migrants carry rusty parts of damaged bicycles, scrap metal, bars and tubes, broken chairs and clothes horses with them? Did you notice the properly lined-up shoes outside the 'tent'? And why do you think the newspaper editor chose to combine the picture of a young girl in shorts with the picture of a group of black migrants? Gosh, I'll stop now before I talk myself in a rage.
    Last edited by Iloveyou; 19th July 2016 at 16:38.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    I hate myself when it comes to this issue. I'd be lying if I said that I don't feel some of what was expressed by those residents in the news article above. I know that love is the answer and that empathy is what will be the driving force behind the coming of the new age, but I just struggle so much to maintain that perspective a lot of the time.

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    Default Re: Europe overwhelmed by a flood of migrants

    I live about 2 hours drive from Como (more south and west of me). Here are some other "real" info on what has happened there.

    It appears that the problem began on the 10 of July when during the day about 100 refugees arrived at the Como (IT)- Chiasso (CH) border seeking to enter Switzerland with intentions of reaching Germany or other northern European countries. Little did they, the refugees, know that the Ticinese Canton of Switzerland had decided to block all entries of immigrants just 2 weeks earlier. Before that date, they had been letting in 100 refugees every 2 weeks, who were then processed for permits to stay in Switzerland and then sent to various areas within the Ticinese Canton confines. That all abruptly stopped. The Italian authorities in Milan-Como were not forewarned of the Swiss' decision to halt the flow of immigrants.

    So, in a very short while, there were several hundred immigrants "camping" at the train station gardens, waiting for their situation to change.

    It only took a few days for the word to get out to the various political and charitable organizations who have begun organizing the group, providing them with health care, hygene necessities and clothes, as well as food. Some organizations have distributed food directly to the immigrants. Some organizations have created "soup kitchens" for them. Women with children and unaccompanied minors will be, if they have not already been, taken to temporary lodging. Some 60 or so who had already been processed but had not been granted assylum status have been taken back to southern Italy.... (probably back to a detention camp or sent back "home"). Because the city of Como already has about 2000 immigrants in various accogliance structures awaiting processing, the various organizations are in alert or near emergency crisis level.

    http://radioblackout.org/2016/07/si-...zione-di-como/

    http://www.laprovinciadicomo.it/stor...ne_1191889_11/

    http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/...one-143891692/

    The Swiss are now using a drone for border survellance at night.

    http://www.laprovinciadicomo.it/stor...reSeen-1193490

    I don't know where that abandoned building in the pictures of the British article is. It may be on the station premissis but I seriously doubt that the transiting immigrants left all the rubbish there. It does look like very old trash laying about. There may have been homeless people living there before. Or it may just be junk other Italians have thrown out (which is quite common, too). Working my way through several other Italian articles, there were picts of the immigrants with bags of garbage that they themselves had bagged up. The station park looked quite neat even if there were a lot of people out lying on the greens.

    http://www.ciaocomo.it/2016/07/21/em...eonati/122402/





    EDIT: I forgot to mention that most of those immigrants are from Somalia, Nigeria, Gambia, Sudan and Eritrea... tipical of what we get up here in this area.
    Last edited by MorningSong; 21st July 2016 at 23:04.
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