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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Well Chirs I understand that it will be easy for you to brush this one under the carpet but you have given me no evidence that what these people are saying is not true. They say that Hawkings is kind of a cult and therefore is mind control.

    I guess that you have no effective arguments that disprove what these people is saying I will have to consider putting this information in a more visible place because people needs to know what your agenda is and it is not ok that you are posting information from Hawkings in all threads. Threads are subject specific and are intended to discuss a topic, what you are doing is propaganda to Hawkings site, now if he is really running a cult it is called recruiting

    Now you are quite forcefull about Hawkings this days and I do not appreciate it unless you clarify with evidence whether these people are wrong. They are from the Cult Education Forum and they think Hawkings is a rip off

    I know that you may be doing this because you think is a good thing but I don't, I think threads should stick to topic and be sensitive to the subjects being discussed.

    There is more to the universe than Hawkings specially if he is a rip off, no surprisingly he is nobility "Sir", that means that he is playing the agenda of the Illuminati

    It is not personal to you, I think you mean well but that is not a excuse to spread mind pollution

    Love (running above 560)

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    I cant comment on conversation that two people are having least its seems like a conversation.
    I have read the books listened to the cds etc for five years and other teachers too.
    Hawkins promotes the twelve step program of AA of which I have had personal life saving experience.
    He recommends you go find a teacher that suits you so he is not saying he is the only teacher.
    He worked hard as Psychiatrist helping many.
    I went to see him at seminar Long Beach California.
    Over 500 there.

    After it was over I did not feel like leaving the room a few other just sat peacefully.
    Hawkins came out and went round shaking hands, mine included, he is very small -- about five foot and frail in his 80s now.

    now here is the thing Star I have always had a great fear of heights, standing on a kitchen chair was an ordeal.
    Anyway there is a carousel at long beach goes up about 100ft, a friend asked me to go up in it with her.
    Without hesitation I got in it up we went no fear.
    Something happened unasked for.
    Now in his book he talks of people being healed by the presence, seems it happened to me,
    Further more an elderly friend of my late aunt whom I did not know was sitting beside me in church at aunts funeral, I felt energy move out of my side.
    After the funeral she approached me and said she felt energy come into her had I experienced anything.
    A few weeks later she called me to say that she was scheduled to have a big operation on her spine but on the latest scan there was no trace of the problem what so ever.
    That was soon after my visit to America.
    I cant explain that rationally .

    This is what Moxie posted on your thread Re: The infiltration of the New Age Movement and Andrija Puharich

    I do love the way that David Hawkins presents what is required
    In order to even be deceived… that is, our basic Innocence, Awareness within Consciousness.

    These are my own words unless you find something in quotations, which are Dr. Hawkins, quoted from Healing and Recovery.

    If as a child, you were taught that blue is green, it was because of your state of innocence that you learned this. The innocence of consciousness itself.

    That Innocence is still within you. You are Not the beliefs that you hold, you are not your thoughts, you are not your fears, You are not your body.

    Dr Hawkins speaks on about how the physical body, all by itself, cannot know itself.
    Your arm has no way of experiencing its armness. Sensations of the body are occurring in the mind which cannot experience itself either. A thought cannot experience its thoughtness without something even greater, consciousness. And ultimately it’s one’s awareness within consciousness that experiences everything.

    If a part of your brain were cut out, or anesthetized, there is no consciousness to be aware of what is going on in that brain/mind. Consciousness is Higher than body or mind, but would you say that consciousness still exists even tho now that particular brain is not reporting anything? Yes, because not only is the body still breathing, but other people report what’s going on in their body. It’s the Awareness within Consciousness that is unavailable to that anesthetized brain… yet consciousness still exists, it’s simply not exclusively localized in that one brain.

    The state of awareness, an aspect of a greater, powerful energy field behind consciousness is the energy of Life itself… the Source. That state of awareness is not restricted by commonly held beliefs. But commonly held beliefs do bring forth consequences that are experienced by conscious awareness in this existence through your brain & your physical body.

    Quote: “We can compare the consciousness of the child [or adult] to the hardware of a computer, and the programming coming in from the social consciousness of the world itself is the software. We see that in the computer, the hardware, which is intrinsically innocent, is uncontaminated by the software.”

    A person’s beliefs are likened to the software in the state of conscious awareness, the hardware, the permanent innocence. “It is the intrinsic innocence of one’s consciousness that is listening, reading, trying to tune itself in to what is real… innocence is unchanged…it never leaves”.

    “The reaffirmation of our innocence consists of never buying that anything is ‘just’ ego; there is no such thing as ‘just’ ego. Ego, the software, social consciousness, and the programming have merely been superimposed on that which is not ego but on truth itself, consciousness itself. All spiritual crises come from context, meaning, and the way in which a thing is held.”

    Certain levels of consciousness have painful consequences. Commonly held beliefs, whether religious, spiritual, political, medical, beliefs about your own nature … all bring forth consequences that include conflict & discord when practiced. Everything is brought up into awareness in order for conscious awareness itself to be recognized & experienced as being Innocent and above the beliefs that are being superimposed over it. We fail to recognize that beliefs are not truth because we‘ve not recognized the intrinsic nature of conscious awareness itself as the only Truth we can know. Consequences & outcomes tell you how close to Truth you are if & because Truth, (God) Innocence is free of guilt, shame, sin, evil, the definition of innocent, look it up.

    Consider your software, your beliefs, what affiliations you have w/religions, politics, food choice, purchasing… what consequences arise out of those affiliations, are they for the good of all beings? Are they divisive or inclusive? Do they put you in the exclusive “in club”, you have found the truth while others are lost or deluded? What is the outcome of having many different religions, of claiming you have the True one? What is the outcome of having different political parties or the existing monetary system? What is the outcome of participating in any war, whether it’s the war on drugs, on cancer, on people? Is every one having a meal today or a roof over their head? In what ways are we Truly connected?

    Where have the commonly held beliefs taken us? Perhaps “beliefs” are anesthetizing so that conscious awareness cannot get through.

    The Truth is, we are all in this together. There is not one that is chosen over another. Nothing is lost ever. Any belief that tells you that some will go this way while others will go that way, is fundamentally flawed because it is by its nature divisive. It has to be if Truth is universal, unified. Conscious awareness, GodMind.

    Hope this is not off topic on a thread that is being “closed”… I felt compelled to share this while it probably still needs more contemplation & editing.. and it’s been a couple of hours of contemplation for me this morning and I have to get on with my day. We have all recognized that we have been infiltrated w/erroneous beliefs maybe for the sole purpose of seeing this and ask as Stardust so often reminds us in her signature... and to question everything, examine ones' self ... right action is the one with the fewest choices that apply to all!

    Now these are first hand experiences my Friend I have related not gossip.
    Much love and thanks for you valid questions
    Chris
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    Lightbulb Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    We are all on the same journey here, sharing and comparing notes, from each individual's perspective.
    We are not here to convert, or sway another's opinion. We are here for each other. Now, especially now,
    we need to support each other, even if we do not follow the other's ideals.

    Like a family, we are growing together, learning together, and most importantly, challenging each other to grow beyond our own ideals, so that we may learn more empathy and compassion while opening up our souls to a bigger vision, instead of becoming stale in our own thoughts.

    Respect each others words, as you hope they will respect yours. Negativity is a killer, and it starts in the mind, and comes out in the mouth to hurt others. It is our thoughts that require attention. To rid the mind of negativity, is the first step to our freedom. Ask yourself, why did I think what I just thought. What was the reason I thought it? What was I going to do with that thought? What is the purpose to this thinking? If you find the reason for the thought, and work on the reason, you will not have to deal with it's negative impact that may arise if spoken.

    If more of us actually worked on improving ourselves, we would not be so busy trying to improve others.
    By allowing others to travel their own path, whether it be in this forum or in our own families, we give the gift of freedom, which to me is pretty cool.

    This is my thought for the day.
    in love & light
    Last edited by rosie; 2nd June 2010 at 13:45. Reason: words breaking up
    The states of awareness we currently perceive are only a thiny fraction of the whole.
    The continuum extends deep into nonphysical areas of the universe far beyond our current physical comprehension ~ William Buhlman


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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Chris

    I understand what you say but I also have to consider what other people say with regard to Hawkings, regardless of his age, it does not mean that there is a twist on his teachings after all they all shared notes with Puharich and he was a very dangerous and deceitful man which is the reason I started the other thread

    What you say does not fill the gaps for me and I am seriusly contemplating the information the Cult organization has given. I don't like the fact that he considers three quarters of the population under 200, that and saying that people are animals are the same. That is more than 5 billion people. This is very divisive and the typical cult behaviour "we are better than you" "we are over 200"

    Whatever experiences you may have had, that is your creation, you don't owe them to anyone but to your own beautiful self.

    In life we take what it is useful for us and discard the rest, there is no need to advertise Hawkings in every single thread of this forum, you owe him nothing Chris. All that you are, you have created for yourself

    Love
    Last edited by stardustaquarion; 2nd June 2010 at 13:58.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    I agree Rosie which is why I share here.
    Some times because I care tough love comes into play unasked for that is true.
    I dont claim I know very often I will say this is my understanding of the moment.
    Non interference in others karma is good but if I saw a child about to step out in font of a bus then I would act.
    I like taking risks but one thing I dont do is take risks with my soul.
    I suggest devotion only to God a and respect for all others even those who unknowingly prompting new age philosophy contaminated by the lower astral.
    They do this and they are very clever, many a good loving person has been led astray.
    I am not talking about recent threads here for I dont know where the teaching comes from there.
    im suggesting stay with the teachings of those who are enlightened, many to pick from since time began, all saying the same thing, some presentation differences because of era or culture but the same thing.
    Basically Love God , Love your fellow man, God who created you is within all.
    Thanks Rosie
    Namaste
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by stardustaquarion (here)
    Chris

    I understand what you say but I also have to consider what other people say with regard to Hawkings, regardless of his age, it does not mean that there is a twist on his teachings after all they all shared notes with Puharich and he was a very dangerous and deceitful man which is the reason I started the other thread

    What you say does not fill the gaps for me and I am seriusly contemplating the information the Cult organization has given. I don't like the fact that he considers three quarters of the population under 200, that and saying that people are animals are the same. That is more than 5 billion people. This is very divisive and the typical cult behaviour "we are better than you" "we are over 200"

    Whatever experiences you may have had, that is your creation, you don't owe them to anyone but to your own beautiful self.

    In life we take what it is useful for us and discard the rest, there is no need to advertise Hawkings in every single thread of this forum, you owe him nothing Chris. All that you are, you have created for yourself

    Love
    Thank you for you kind words they are appreciated.
    I agree with you in that I was healing others before the event with Hawkins but nothing healed me.
    Because I have been on the path so long over thirty years, I dont take anything any one says as truth.
    Everything I learned from Hawkins is an extension of what other teacher have said and I only keep what I can personally validate.
    In order to understand the comments and calibrations they have to be taken in context of the evolution of consciousness.
    Dr Hawkins is very clear no level is better than another, all are levels we decide to work on in this life time.
    Its just a school, some classes teach more advanced like your AD her students are no better or worse than others.
    Nothing but good has come from the teachings of Dr Hawkins for me.
    It started with AA, moved on to Yoga classes, Sai Baba, Raman, Yogananda, Kundalini Guru the late Dr Goels Rames Balsakar, Mantak Chia, the Gita, Anthony De Mello, Yogananda, Eckhart of course for many years, Hawkins, They come they go teaching much the same my understanding evolving through cross checking nothing taken for granted no blind following. The teaching not the teacher. God Reigns Supreme in my life He guides me ultimately.
    Hawkins came as the rest did by sycronicity. I all ways resist. If Im supposed to go thee it comes at me comes at me comes at me from different directions, thats my test

    All I can say Star is Read the book its not expensive then you get the whole thing in context.
    Then come back and say its rubbish otherwise. You owe it to yourself to be true to you not listening to gossip dont take the word of those who have not read the teaching. Bear in mind to that he is an enemy of the lower astral a great threat to them and they would do anything to blacken his teachings.
    Regards Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Chris I could say the same of those that criticize Asha but no one is going to listen.

    I had a similar experience with Asha's teachings, I was suffering from fibromyalgia that had me incapacitated for more than 10 years, and few months after I started to do the techniques in the Azurite website all the pain was gone!

    I tell you, like you I have been around and read about a thousand books, I myself a ligh body teacher but nothing will make me better, could heal others but not myself. Funny how things happen sometimes, perhaps in a way I have the same gratitude for Asha that you have for Hawkings, I was in agony I tell you, some days I could not even walk. If these were the days it would have been called a miracle.

    Thank you for the explanation, If I have the opportunity I will investigate his work in more detail

    It is being interesting getting to know you a bit better

    Love Stardust
    Last edited by stardustaquarion; 2nd June 2010 at 14:51.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    You have to admit that from the time we come into this world, we are told that we are fundamentally flawed creatures, defective, lacking ... if not from religions, from other gurus & teachers...

    Our beings are not honored but always contrasted to something otherworldy not human
    which is perfect and we are not! And look out into the world and you see the divisiveness that has resulted, the boundaries here, there, everywhere... yet we insist on creating more.

    So yes... here we are each w/their own beliefs... and there are a lot of problems in our world.
    My post that Graybeard cut n pasted has to do with the ultimate perspective of the big, big picture, not what's going on in the world. The Big Big picture being that of our Source... Conscious Awareness itself. Everyone has it just by being alive... can we honor that?

    I want to add here that I think a major problem in this world has to do with the fundamental MESSAGE we get from all different directions, that HUMANS are FLAWED. And I'm sick n tired of it. If you don't get the message from churchianity, religulousness (lol), you get it from "enlightened" OTHERS... you have to transcend your ego or you have to upgrade your DNA... it's always something to remind us that we are somehow broken. Humans are so dishonored and invalidated that we take up drinking or drugging or joining this or that to this life, feelings of worthlessness.... Someone is always telling us where the truth is but not many are out there doing anything but sitting on the butts preaching this or that.

    We are emotional beings, all honest emotions are healthy! Even anger, even rage, even hopelessness & despair... humans need to support one another, assist one another, get down to basics, there's a lot of pain going on and all we're told is that we are DEFECTIVE....RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY W/THE OIL GUSHER... a major emergency and we are all so distracted with "where the truth is".... How egoic is THAT?

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    I agree with much of what you say Moxie, and perhaps one of the reason I like the teachings that I am following is because they are self empowering, it is up to me what I do with my life and I can chose whether to go forth or backwards, knowing that source loves me now as I am, and that as I am, I am perfect now and all is perfect too as it is a perfect manifestation of our combined thoughts and beliefs

    We have been conditioned to believe we are no good and hence we are kind of waiting to be punished and give our power away to the "experts" which are better than us and again. What I am studiying says that we are all equal and no matter whether a being decides to express the path of de-evolution that being is equally loved. It actually gave me great peace to know that and that nothing is lost for all is inside source

    And so I am learning to love myself as I am now, and learning to direct my thoughts in the direction of my desires rather than the fear of not getting there

    Regarding the oil situation I think that it is manifesting in our reality because it is something we deeply fear or may be feeling guilty because we use oil and the propaganda has been non stop about global warming. It does not matter whether is was created or natural, it has manifested and now we need to think how we help each other including the wild life that is being killed. What is, is.

    Much Love xx

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Moxie (here)
    You have to admit that from the time we come into this world, we are told that we are fundamentally flawed creatures, defective, lacking ... if not from religions, from other gurus & teachers...

    Our beings are not honored but always contrasted to something otherworldy not human
    which is perfect and we are not! And look out into the world and you see the divisiveness that has resulted, the boundaries here, there, everywhere... yet we insist on creating more.

    So yes... here we are each w/their own beliefs... and there are a lot of problems in our world.
    My post that Graybeard cut n pasted has to do with the ultimate perspective of the big, big picture, not what's going on in the world. The Big Big picture being that of our Source... Conscious Awareness itself. Everyone has it just by being alive... can we honor that?

    I want to add here that I think a major problem in this world has to do with the fundamental MESSAGE we get from all different directions, that HUMANS are FLAWED. And I'm sick n tired of it. If you don't get the message from churchianity, religulousness (lol), you get it from "enlightened" OTHERS... you have to transcend your ego or you have to upgrade your DNA... it's always something to remind us that we are somehow broken. Humans are so dishonored and invalidated that we take up drinking or drugging or joining this or that to this life, feelings of worthlessness.... Someone is always telling us where the truth is but not many are out there doing anything but sitting on the butts preaching this or that.

    We are emotional beings, all honest emotions are healthy! Even anger, even rage, even hopelessness & despair... humans need to support one another, assist one another, get down to basics, there's a lot of pain going on and all we're told is that we are DEFECTIVE....RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY W/THE OIL GUSHER... a major emergency and we are all so distracted with "where the truth is".... How egoic is THAT?
    Hi Moxie I agree with you regarding the oil disaster..
    However I for one are sending prayer.
    God grant me the serenity etc


    The Guru knows you are perfect and that when illusion is removed then your perfection stands out illumined.
    The Ego is not you and causes misery and suffering.
    No ego no problem.
    Its that simple.
    Love Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    There is no EGO Chris

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by stardustaquarion (here)
    Chris I could say the same of those that criticize Asha but no one is going to listen.

    I had a similar experience with Asha's teachings, I was suffering from fibromyalgia that had me incapacitated for more than 10 years, and few months after I started to do the techniques in the Azurite website all the pain was gone!

    I tell you, like you I have been around and read about a thousand books, I myself a ligh body teacher but nothing will make me better, could heal others but not myself. Funny how things happen sometimes, perhaps in a way I have the same gratitude for Asha that you have for Hawkings, I was in agony I tell you, some days I could not even walk. If these were the days it would have been called a miracle.

    Thank you for the explanation, If I have the opportunity I will investigate his work in more detail

    It is being interesting getting to know you a bit better

    Love Stardust
    Stardust I wish you had shared that earlier.
    Im glad you have though,
    Personal experience says so much more to me than a 10000 good videos.
    Yes now we can really enjoy our little differences and they really amount to nothing in the scheme of things.
    Im glad we got to know each other better.
    Take care not that you need to
    Love Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by stardustaquarion (here)
    There is no EGO Chris
    You win I surrender.
    I dont mind.
    Love c
    Ps your right I haven't got one Lol
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    You win I surrender.
    I dont mind.
    Love c
    Ps your right I haven't got one Lol
    There you are Chris



    My favourite

    Glad to have found a friend

    Love Stardust

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Twelve Killed 25 injured
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

    Taxi Driver goes on the rampage in Cumbria UK

    Just madness.
    Tolle said there would be increasing madness
    Dident know where else to post this
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by stardustaquarion (here)
    There is no EGO Chris
    Wishful thinking Star*
    We have all been taught to let your mind make the decisions and not to listen to your heart. Your mind after all, is a terrific machine and can work anything out. Ego is this barrier between the heart and the mind. The need to express your views on a given subject -- because you 'know' it to be right, regardless of whether people want to listen or not. Ignoring the feelings of others because your actions are the 'right' actions to take. These are both examples of the Ego at work. Both examples of our need to 'control'. The Ego thinks it knows best. The voice of the heart doesn't stand a chance.

    We have not been taught that what is simple is what is right. The universe operates simply. Balance and harmony in the natural world, in the animal world. Any world that does not have Ego, operates very simply. It seems the goal of spiritual beliefs to return us to our connection to that universe, (Source) to our Eternity so that we, too, can live simply, in balance and harmony with all that is. If indeed this is the goal, the purpose of that goal, the purpose of letting go of ego, is to also let go of the constant fear and attachments in which we all live.

    Love, to transcend and then ascend... ~ Dan ~
    Unity Consciousness

    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    More on the illusory non existent ego smiling.
    The Heisenberg Principal is, that which is observed by consciousness is changed.
    Only observation is necessary, an awareness that is beyond thought holds the power.
    Its a very complex subject which Hawkins goes into in some depth.
    The kinesology technique that backs up Dr Hawkins subjective experience connects to the field of consciousness in which every event though and deed since time began is recorded. Using the test there is a yes or non yes response to a statement. Basically anything that does not exist, is not supportive of life, is an illusion, causes the muscle to go weak and everything that is true/ life supporting causes the muscle to be strong.
    For various reasons only about 15% of the populous can use this test with accuracy.
    Now the ego
    The thought that I am a me is very powerful because we are infatuated with the me story.
    Anything that comes and goes is not Truth. Ultimate Truth is unchanging. Truth cant change.
    Thoughts have a wave form but they are not us. till we identify with the thought as mine.
    Eckhart Tolle says Descartes had it backwards. "I AM THEREFORE I THINK" is more correct.
    Its very complex unless you are very precise in the context of a statement.
    What is true from one view point, at one level of understanding is not true at another.
    Ultimate truth is only God is.
    Then its a step down principal.
    Very top is Ultimate God who is pure love and does nothing.
    Next is God of creation who is busy moment by moment.
    There are the Angels
    There are the Avatars
    There are the enlightened
    Then there is the human race in various levels of vibration from Saints - unconditional love,
    all the way down to the
    serial child killer.
    All these have there personal vibration, an energy field.
    So the ego seems very powerful because we believe it to be so, only the power of God can remove that illusion.
    Namaste.
    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient.

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Crazy Louie (14th September 2013)

  23. Link to Post #218
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    We dont actually have to think we need to be aware -- thats different
    We can see a beautiful sunset be awe struck and then the ego compares.
    Yes but the one last Thursday was better,
    All of a sudden the beautiful sunset is lost to consciousness because I am deep in thought in mind analyzing.
    The ego cant stand to be ignored, to take second place to a beautiful sunset, it has to be center stage all of the time.
    Its all about ME.
    All little examination will show this to be true.

    Ramesh had a good way of looking at it.
    He said you will always have a working mind that takes care of things to be done, it is totally focused in the present moment doing.
    You will know what you need to know.
    You will know what to do.
    The emotional mind is not necessary.
    One can experience great joy sadness all things with out being emotional about it which is a different thing all together.
    Compassion arises right action happens.
    I dont need ego to experience with love compassion and sensitivity.
    I need to get me out of it to really listen to another.
    The ego filters, accesses comparable info so you dont get new experiences everything is tainted by comparrison with past events, it judges files away is very mechanistic.

    A question that comes often. But don't we need the emotion of fear?
    I don't need fear to tell me not to step in front of bus. Fear paralyzes makes me infective.
    All I need is common sense, life trains me what is supportive and what is dangerous to my survival.
    Only ego feels hurt, is a victim or perpetrator.
    Its not an enemy it just does not know any other way.
    It can be tamed with love, then transcended.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient.

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    your ego sure needs to say alot Chris...give it a rest...

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Dear Shiva777
    Its all a matter of opinion
    The ego thread has rumbled on for over two years between original PA and here.
    It continually gets viewers.
    It takes time and effort to answer queries.
    It takes time to post.
    If I hadn't had a lot of support and encouragement I would have given up a long time ago.
    I was requested to come and start the thread here by people who felt they had benefited in Avalon
    Have a look at my profile page thats just a few comments, loads of e mails
    The thread is not mine as such I just started it, Many have contributed all with different points of view.
    My ego is still work in progress but the benefits have been amazing. Im easy about being wrong.
    My mind is virtually silent.
    Fear has left me.
    Im sober.
    Life is good and I care deeply about others not so fortunate.
    I have never claimed to have it right and its my understanding of the moment I share.
    Im happy for you to share Shiva 777 if you feel inclined.
    Regards and best wishes.
    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient.

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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