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Thread: Enlightenment and related matters.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    The whole thing is really simple. ( this is me talking to me smiling)
    All enlightened ones say basically the same thing.

    Enlightenment is a an egoless nonduality state brought about by the grace of God.

    Therefore if I want to know about that state it is necessary or me to listen to some One in that state. No theory just ultimate truth.
    Not the spiritual circus which talks about it but is not it.

    The LOVE of God is not emotional love it is just --- LOVE of The One with out a second. None other.


    Namaste
    Chris
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Our form is naught but atoms in movement of the same sacredness as the grain of sand or the distant star. All form has an alloted life span.
    What we truly are is formless awareness and eternal.
    Ego !! who needs it?
    We are beyond that.

    There is the thought that we cant survive without an ego.
    On the Wayne Dyer film posted on the forum he points out we spent nine month in the womb with all our needs met without us having to do anything.
    Unfortunately when we get out its like. Thanks God you did a great job, now im in charge.

    Wayne also points out that the ego's call is MORE.
    Always in competition to be best to be superior to be special -- always MORE.
    Inflated by success deflated by failure.
    Up down like a yo yo, just a roller coaster, what an existence.
    Freedom from ego is freedom from fear, free to just be as you are, free to realize your own potential.

    In answer to question would you not be less without an ego to spur you on, is competition not healthy?

    My hobby was sailing I raced 505 high performance racing dinghies.
    I loved sailing.
    I practiced, spent time reading books by Olympic Gold sailors.
    I learned as much as I could from others more experienced than I.
    I became a champion, I never in my mind competed against anyone, I respected all, I just went out and sailed to the best of my ability.
    Moment by moment I lived in oneness with the wind, the sea, the boat, winning was just a fringe benefit.
    The real thing was the moment the boat took off on the crest of a wave, spray everywhere, an amazing experience.

    Those who were more successful than I, in any endeavor, will say. "I loved what I was doing, I got in the zone"
    Thats the secret of it and its effortless, because there is no ego in the moment telling you that you cant.

    I guess enlightenment it much the same.
    No limits.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 12th May 2010 at 19:10.
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    Avalon Member grace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Those who were more successful than I, in any endeavor, will say. "I loved what I was doing, I got in the zone"
    Thats the secret of it and its effortless, because there is no ego in the moment telling you that you cant.

    I guess enlightenment it much the same.
    No limits.

    Chris
    wow chris, i really feel you on this post. "being in the zone" is the perfect way to describe that place that you go... and it is the same place for every activity. I go there when i play music, and i know through learning from myself and playing with other people that the way someone plays music without their ego is infinitely more beautiful than if they practiced for a thousand years but aren't in "the zone". it's the same for everything else tho, talking, walking, when a person is there, everything flows.
    \

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    Serbia Avalon Member Beren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    True love wipes out fear. We need to practice it more. Until one day we are forever united with our Creator.
    It`s like a game, they spray you with fear and then they laugh, but when you ,in your own defense ,kick them back with a load of love ,then YOU smile... and whoever smiles last ,his one is merrier !

    Love ,love till evil falls apart!

    Love, love and see what happens!

    http://www.fromforgottenworld.com

    :welcome:

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by grace (here)
    wow chris, i really feel you on this post. "being in the zone" is the perfect way to describe that place that you go... and it is the same place for every activity. I go there when i play music, and i know through learning from myself and playing with other people that the way someone plays music without their ego is infinitely more beautiful than if they practiced for a thousand years but aren't in "the zone". it's the same for everything else tho, talking, walking, when a person is there, everything flows.

    Hi Grace thanks for your post
    I know exactly what you are saying.
    I play bass guitar and sing.
    When I was in my teens I was playing one night and it was better by far than my usual efforts. It came to mind that I had no idea what note I was going to play next it was just happening by itself. I was just watching my fingers move and listening to the result. The thought also came was I playing the bass or was it playing me?
    I knew nothing of spirituality at the time but it was what is called a peak moment - a realization.
    Its up to me to put the time in learning a song, practicing doing all that needs to be done, but when it comes to playing and singing most times it just happens.
    If I try I mess it up.
    I tried to explain to the guys in the band they just laughed.
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Beren (here)
    True love wipes out fear. We need to practice it more. Until one day we are forever united with our Creator.
    It`s like a game, they spray you with fear and then they laugh, but when you ,in your own defense ,kick them back with a load of love ,then YOU smile... and whoever smiles last ,his one is merrier !

    Love ,love till evil falls apart!


    Im smiling and loving, Beren
    There is no situation that enough love cannot change for the better.
    Thanks
    Love
    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Be who we are infinite love

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    I think the ego is a necessity for functioning in this world.
    Ego gives impetus to the effort that it takes to learn, pro-create, make a difference, or right an injustice.
    Without a sense of duality, one couldn't sense injustice, or value education, or make a better mouse trap. Without a feeling of power (self) one could not act to balance duality.
    Releasing the ego is not for people who would change this world - or change a diaper.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Heartsong (here)
    I think the ego is a necessity for functioning in this world.
    Ego gives impetus to the effort that it takes to learn, pro-create, make a difference, or right an injustice.
    Without a sense of duality, one couldn't sense injustice, or value education, or make a better mouse trap. Without a feeling of power (self) one could not act to balance duality.
    Releasing the ego is not for people who would change this world - or change a diaper.
    Dear Heartsong

    I have posted two links
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Hawkins
    http://www.veritaspub.com/index.php?page=about

    Perhaps ypu wil have a look.
    Dr Hawkins is enlightened in an ego less, desire less, non-duality state of enlightenment and gets an amazing amount of work done for his fellow man.

    Regards
    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    yes i do feel chris that the ego is there as a Guide program to the matrix ,it is one of the biggest traps to take the heart out of commission, as unconditional love being the key to all things ,as we are self are infinite love
    the ego is like the naughty child with in and can be guided by love all so the ego is the balance to aree true self as are all so called bad things one could not exsist with out the other ,but that is until we as consciousness understand we can break any laws writin by the matrix

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Yes we are here NOW and have to deal with what we find in front of ourselves
    through surrender, right action, whatever works. We are supposed to act as though it is all very real and enjoy the Cosmic Dance.
    With Love and respect to all who visit and contribute here.
    Chris
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    There is no greater gift that you can give to another
    than that of self-realization "


    The moment we take up a position we are in duality.
    The ego loves positionality because inherent in this is the judgment that I am right and therfore somthing is wrong, even when we are siding with something that is apparently right.

    We are in opposition to somthing that is.
    There is that and our point of view.

    We dont condone something or reject something, nether are we neutral,which is also a belief system.

    Its a question of non-attachment.
    It is as it is.

    When we are in a nondualistic state right action will occur which is witnessed. by Self.

    Jesus said.
    "Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within that is the doer" or words to that effect.

    When our personal will is surrendered to God then right action naturally follows.

    We are at a very interesting time in the evolution of mankind.
    Hawkins says that the chances of being enlightened are 1000 times greater than ever before in our history.

    By his reckoning there are thirty three in that state at the moment.
    That is a quote from some years back so hopefully there are many more now, our future as a race depends on it.

    The ego has been the cause of all of the misery in the history of man kind,

    An enlightened being is only capable of loving action -- sometimes tough love but love non the less.

    It is not necessary for everyone to be enlightened but those who are balance negativity. More enlightened one less negativity till all negativity is overcome,
    fear is redundant then and great creative work becomes possible.

    Great athletes, painters, musicians talk of the "ZONE" they perform/create in that state. In the Zone there is only performing/creating there is no person only the single minded action.
    Inspired means in Spirit.

    Chris
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    Avalon Member truthseekerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    True words indeed, thank you Chris.

    Without ego, there is no independence of thinking, which means you as an individual would not exist. You would not be able to have the experience of a unique personality along with personal memories and choices in this universe. So it would be pointless to do away with the ego since Spirit created ego to express and experience itself. The key to spirituality is not to get rid of the ego, but it is to become not limited by it. Spirituality is about realizing Spirit and harmonizing ego with it. We become One and All.

    Spirituality is not about power over anyone. It is about self-empowerment, about power with everyone. The ego of a spiritual person is not a problem. It is an essential part of the human system, created expressly by The Creator of all life in order for it to experience self-consciousness from an infinite number of viewpoints. Infinite Being is the all-encompassing consciousness from which the universe was created. Everything in the universe is made of consciousness. Each snowflake is unique, so is each person.

    Dan ~
    Unity Consciousness
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    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    The egoic thoughts just appear, I did not ask for them.
    Then the problem ocours if I identify with them.
    They can be very seductive.
    If I buy into them, make them my thoughts and act upon them then karma arises.
    I have choice, free will.
    If I realise what is happening, higher mind clicks in and I can make a quality choice of action or non action. Consequences are then of a different nature.

    Classic example is Ghandi.
    A man of integrity, non violence, humility, yet he overcame immense odds to free India from British rule.
    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi there

    Its come to my understanding that there are a great many people visiting this forum who are not spiritualist, and some that are do not have the full knowledge on the subject. I find the every time the term Ego is being used, its used without clraification as to what it means every where in all the threads its used. Most people who are not spritualist, and even those who are spiritualist are not the same type of spiritualist on this specific kind subject.

    The orignal general global understanding of the Term EGO, stems from Freud's definition, and those who have no idea of this new sprititual use of the turm which means something entirely and absolutley different, will, without doubt, make any new commer to this forum looking of knowledge and truth of what going on in the world to be utterly confusing, and make absolutley no realistic sence, as im prety sure new comers will not prodominantly have that understanding.
    And i have to say, i was one them, and i didnt just find it confusing, it imideately made me feel that, if this was the use of Freuds Ego term this forum is all talking about, the use utterly ilogical, and padantic, and that they havent got a clue what there talking about. And my innitial responce and feeling was.... "what a bunch of crack pots, do i really want to continue with this forum, project avalon, and camelot"...

    So, I think it may be a great idea if all you guys who understand all the ins and outs of this Spiritual diversity, to put an added brackets of the meaning of Ego next to it, for example: Ego-[epigenetic overlay/ Edge God Out] This way no confusion, no chance of peeps who know the original use of the term, won't be thinking your all crazy.

    And we dont want to scare peeps away, especially on any grounds that project a misonomer that were all crazy, because without doubt, there are large percentage of peeps here who are not spiritualist's.
    Any argument that anyone who wants to join or view the threads should find out what it means is irelevant, because most people perseptions are based on first impressions, and those who will not uderstand will most likely have the first impression of: WTF im out of here!!!

    Kind Regards
    Joslin
    Last edited by Joslin; 16th May 2010 at 08:59.
    You must strive to be the change you wish to see in the world, because the world is how "you" make it, not just for you, but everyone else.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Joslin
    What you say is valid.
    From time to time on the thread there is an explanation of the difference between healthy self esteem which is a quality of the ego as defined by Freud and that is good.

    Spiritual ego is a different subject.
    Spiritualism is also a different subject from spiritual.
    Spiritual is the quest to find Truth. One question might be "What am I ?"
    Im not of any religion.
    Possibly the number of "Hits" are an indication that people in general are attracted by the content.
    Those who will, will and those who wont, wont.
    Why worry.
    Thanks for your post Joslin.
    The thread was first started on Avalon so there are good contributions there with various points of view..
    http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18206

    Perhaps the signature that I use is helpful.
    Regards
    Chris

    Ps the the word ego was in use in spiritual text long before Freud put a different definition on it.
    Ch
    Last edited by greybeard; 16th May 2010 at 09:29.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Found this quote, and thought to share it here Chris.

    "Man comes out of unity into diversity,
    The ego appears, has to be recognized,
    Then transcended and return to Unity
    In a higher octave of consciousness."

    --Karlfried Graf von Durckheim
    Unity Consciousness
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    Found this quote, and thought to share it here Chris.

    "Man comes out of unity into diversity,
    The ego appears, has to be recognized,
    Then transcended and return to Unity
    In a higher octave of consciousness."

    --Karlfried Graf von Durckheim
    Sometimes one has to experience havoc in ones life before help from God is genuinely sought
    ie hitting rock bottom.
    Then there is an awareness of ego, (Edge God Out) it is recognized as being separate from what one truly is.

    When ego is seen for what it is (dysfunctional action) then through that awareness it is transcended.
    We return to source the "wiser" and at a higher octave of consciousness.

    Dysfunctional action, simply, is an act that does not serve us or others highest good.

    The ego is not capable of serving the highest good of an other far less unconditional love.
    Every loving thought and action weakens the ego.
    That includes acts of forgiveness.
    The ego loves to have an enemy. Lol

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    With thanks to Mudra who posted this on the original ego thread at
    Avalon.


    The ignorance of not knowing who we really are sets the stage for a batle between " good " and " bad " .
    For ignorance of our true self breeds fear , fear breeds the need to control , and the need to control starts the strugle for power .
    When we started our journey onto this plane we faced ignorance and thus dichotomies. We only have a vague idea of who we really are in essence. “Not knowing who we are” is the incentive behind change, growth and expansion in our universe.
    The end of your journey will be that you have become larger than good and evil, light and dark. You will have created a third energy, the Christ energy, which embraces and transcends both.

    Your earthly cycle of lives ends when the game of duality no longer has a hold on you. It is essential to the dualistic game that you identify yourself with a particular position in the playfield of polarities. You identify yourself with being poor or rich, famous or humble, man or woman, hero or villain. It really doesn’t matter that much which part you are playing. As long as you feel one with the actor on the stage, duality still has a firm grip on you.

    This is not wrong of course. In a sense it was meant to be that way. You were meant to forget about your true self. To experience all the aspects of duality, you were meant to narrow your consciousness down to a particular role in the drama of earth life.

    And you played it well. You got so caught up with your roles that you totally forgot about the aim and purpose of going through this cycle of lives to begin with. You were so forgetful about yourself that you took the games and dramas of duality to be the only reality there is.

    Characteristics of the duality game

    1) Your emotional life is essentially unstable.

    There is no emotional anchor present, since you are always in the “up” or “down” side of a particular mood.

    2) You are intensely involved with the outer world.

    It is very important to you how other people judge you. Your self-esteem depends on what the outer world (society or your loved ones) mirrors back to you about who you are.

    3) You have strong opinions about what’s good and what’s bad. Being judgmental gives you a sense of security. Life is so well organized when one divides actions, thoughts or people into right and wrong.

    Common to all these characteristics is that in all you do or feel, you are not really there. Your consciousness resides in the outer layers of your being where it is driven by fear-oriented patterns of thought and behavior.

    By going within and making contact with the hidden, suppressed parts of yourself, you are becoming more present. Your consciousness is rising above the fear-motivated patterns of thought and behavior that you have taken for granted for such a long time. It is taking responsibility for itself.

    Characteristics of releasing duality

    1) You listen to the language of your soul which speaks to you through your feelings.

    2) You act upon this language and create the changes your soul wishes you to make.

    3) You value quiet time alone, for only in silence can you hear the whispers of your soul.

    4) You question the authority of thought patterns or rules of behavior which block the free expression of your true inspiration and aspirations.

    The turning point in letting go of duality

    Your earthly cycle of lives draws to a close when your consciousness is able to hold all the experiences of duality in its hand, while remaining centered and fully present. As long as you identify with one aspect of duality rather than another (with light as opposed to dark, with rich as opposed to poor etc.), your consciousness is on a swing.

    This center is the exit point for the karmic cycle. The predominant feeling tones in this center are stillness, compassion and quiet joy. Greek philosophers had premonitions of this state which they called ataraxia: imperturbability.

    Judgment and fear are the energies that most take you off-center. As you release these energies more and more, you become more quiet and open inside. You truly enter another world, another plane of consciousness.

    Releasing the grip of duality takes time. Unraveling all the layers of darkness (un-consciousness) is a gradual process. Yet once you embark upon this road, the road to the inner Self, you are slowly distancing yourself from the game of duality. When you have tasted the true meaning of ataraxia, the turning point is taken. When you have felt the silent yet all-pervading joy of simply being with yourself, you will know that that is what you’ve been looking for all along. You will go inward time and again to experience this peace inside.

    You will not shy away from worldly enjoyment. But you will have found an anchor of divinity within yourself, and you will experience the world and all its beauty from that state of bliss.

    When there is peace and joy in your heart, the things and people you meet will give you peace and joy.

    From the Lightworkers series : the teachings of Yeshua
    http://www.jeshua.net/

    The entire story of the ego stems entirely upon not knowing who we really are .
    We are divine sparks of Light animated by Love that has no bounderies . The moment we experience this the ego fades away and we step out of the realm of dichotomies ,linear time , judgement and fear. The ego may have served us during our journey out of ignorance but once self realization is attained we will have outgrown it and only pure Love and compassion will remain.
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Anything that is transient and of form is not who we truly are.
    We are formless, manifest into form for the brief period of this assumed identity.

    We are not the ego because it is changing its point of view all the time, however we are responsible for what it does, so to speak.

    Its not an enemy just self centered.


    We are all born into this life with one, it comes with the body and if we do not wish to return here and wish to move on then we need to transcend it, wish it well and surrender it to our creator.

    We will not have a harmonious peaceful world whilst we are ego driven.

    The ego is materialistic and uses force where ever necessary to get what it wants, Self is Power and dosent need to.
    Gravity dosent make the apple fall its just a natural consequence of its power.

    Gandi freed India from the British without force.
    The book "Power versus Force" by Dr David Hawkins is an eye opener an Aha!!! moment

    All wars ( and they have been going since forever it seems) have been fought from the egoic point of I want. This will continue unless enough people have a raised spiritual energy.

    One definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
    We need to begin to act different to be different, to get a different world, or it will be the same old story. ie self destruct.

    Disagreement tends to come from. " I'm right therefore your wrong"
    Its ok for people to have different points of view, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, Id prefer they are not disagreeable, which is a different ball game altogether.
    We can live in harmony with our differences, can we not?

    .

    I may well be wrong but I see spiritual evolution as a process.

    A person may come from apathy into anger, that is a step forward, pride may follow. There may develop an interest in self improvement and genuine pride of achievement, positive thinking books may be read, there is a realization that success is only possible with the assistance of others, spiritual search may start.
    Bravery may conquer fear, eventually there is the realization that bravery and fear are largely emotions-- points of perception, then they come progressively redundant as they are seen as duality and really meaningless, an arbitrary viewpoint. One mans ceiling another mans floor. IE. they mean different things to different people. A lion tamer might be OK with lions and frightened of mice.

    There is the realization that breathing happens by it self and many other things too, so one just does things without the need for self esteem, doing is a natural function,

    The ego can make the simplest things into a big deal, look at me Im special stuff, look at what I did.
    The ego restricts, sets limits where there are none.
    The ego is just the buying into,identifying with the "Me story in our head" all the I am this I am that, I believe this I believe that.

    All belief systems and constructs change over time, what we truly are is constant and unchanging, the presence within our mortal coil.
    Eventually we evolve to the point where we realize that we are the in-dweller, the presence within, pure awareness.



    All that said one has to go through the process starting where they are at.
    Be kind to all life including your own
    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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