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Thread: Enlightenment and related matters.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Strictly speaking, just like the echo of everything else, there is no master only the appearance of one (as many).
    Indeed and even more or less--There is no creation and no disolution.
    Ramana said that.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Survival is not good enough
    Sadhguru - 28 to 30 hours of focus time is enough to transform you, you deserve that

    Im not into the teaching of Sadhguru but he has a very large following.
    Chris

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Mauritius Avalon Member Guish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Everyone,

    My latest episode on mental clutter and how to deal with it.

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/geeris...-how-do-we-dea

    Much love,
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    UK Avalon Member MorningFox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    You get enlightened, you die.
    You don't get enlightened, you die.
    It's apparent that you don't understand the concept of enlightenment

    The point is that you finally transcend birth and death, you ascend up and out of the cycle (the trap) of reincarnation.

    So your statement is at least 50% wrong

    Shakyamuni didn't die, he transcended the carnal form and through intention created his own universe for beings to reside in. Like many others have done.
    Last edited by MorningFox; 6th December 2019 at 09:14.

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  9. Link to Post #7625
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    You get enlightened, you die.
    You don't get enlightened, you die.
    It's very apparent that you don't understand the concept of 'enlightenment'. The whole point is that you finally transcend birth and death, you ascend up and out of the cycle (the trap) of reincarnation.

    So your statement is at least 50% wrong

    Shakyamuni didn't die, he transcended the carnal form and through intention created his own universe for beings to reside in. Like many others have done.
    Maybe Guish was refering to the body and persona Morning Fox.
    Good to see you posting here.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    UK Avalon Member MorningFox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    You get enlightened, you die.
    You don't get enlightened, you die.
    It's very apparent that you don't understand the concept of 'enlightenment'. The whole point is that you finally transcend birth and death, you ascend up and out of the cycle (the trap) of reincarnation.

    So your statement is at least 50% wrong

    Shakyamuni didn't die, he transcended the carnal form and through intention created his own universe for beings to reside in. Like many others have done.
    Maybe Guish was refering to the body and persona Morning Fox.
    Good to see you posting here.
    Chris
    Well if we all talk in riddles then no one will get anywhere.
    Guish said that "You get enlightened, you die.
    You don't get enlightened, you die."

    Which would suggest that he/she means the same thing happens to you whether you put in the work or not, which is rubbish

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  12. Link to Post #7627
    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    ... no one will get anywhere.
    Maybe that's the point.



    The mind has a difficult time with enlightenment which is a riddle in itself.

    How perfect is that?

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  14. Link to Post #7628
    Mauritius Avalon Member Guish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    You get enlightened, you die.
    You don't get enlightened, you die.
    It's very apparent that you don't understand the concept of 'enlightenment'. The whole point is that you finally transcend birth and death, you ascend up and out of the cycle (the trap) of reincarnation.

    So your statement is at least 50% wrong

    Shakyamuni didn't die, he transcended the carnal form and through intention created his own universe for beings to reside in. Like many others have done.
    Maybe Guish was refering to the body and persona Morning Fox.
    Good to see you posting here.
    Chris
    Well if we all talk in riddles then no one will get anywhere.
    Guish said that "You get enlightened, you die.
    You don't get enlightened, you die."

    Which would suggest that he/she means the same thing happens to you whether you put in the work or not, which is rubbish
    From a Soto Zen perspective, we are all enlightened.
    We live in a certain way to be in the enlightened state. We don't achieve enlightenment. The work as you say, is just living in harmony.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    I prepared a Declutter exercise for December as we go towards the new year.

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    Avalon Member justntime2learn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    Hi Everyone,

    My latest episode on mental clutter and how to deal with it.

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/geeris...-how-do-we-dea

    Much love,
    Geerish
    Hi Geerish,

    I listened and loved it

    Jill and I just listened and loved it!
    “To develop a complete mind: Study the art of science; study the science of art. Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else” – Leonardo Da Vinci

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  18. Link to Post #7630
    Mauritius Avalon Member Guish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by justntime2learn (here)
    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    Hi Everyone,

    My latest episode on mental clutter and how to deal with it.

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/geeris...-how-do-we-dea

    Much love,
    Geerish
    Hi Geerish,

    I listened and loved it

    Jill and I just listened and loved it!
    Hi Matey. Do subscribe.

    It's also on IHEart Radio now.

    https://www.iheart.com/podcast/966-g...show-52812693/

    The declutter exercise has been recorded on this link:

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/geeris...utter-exercise
    Last edited by Guish; 7th December 2019 at 17:53.
    Experience reality beyond the senses
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  20. Link to Post #7631
    Mauritius Avalon Member Guish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Beautiful people,

    For those who haven't seen me Physically yet,

    I recorded a video on the IDA breathing technique and here's the link:



    Much love,
    Geerish.
    Experience reality beyond the senses
    https://www.facebook.com/geerishhealer/

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  22. Link to Post #7632
    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Ah, have "you" ever considered the words of Ramana Maharshi when he said :

    Quote "Whatever is not there in deep sleep, does not exist"

    -- OR --

    “Only that which is present in deep sleep is real”
    I ask because, to be honest, in all these years it has never really made sense ... until today !



    What follows are some quotes from Perfect Brilliant Stillness by David Carse which pretty well sums up HOW such "confusion" (ignorance ?) is seemingly perpetuated [1] :

    Quote The value of the dream analogy is that it gives a sense for how it is that physical reality, all of consensus reality, is basically not real, but is also in a sense real. The analogy is to how we think of our sleeping dreams. If you dreamed something at night when you were asleep, when you woke up you wouldn't say that what happened in the dream 'really' happened; it was only a dream. On the other hand, it was a 'real' dream; if you are telling someone about a dream you actually had, you aren't lying or making it up, you really did have this dream. What we mean by saying that the dream isn't real in the sense that consensus reality is real, is that the dream does not exist independently on its own the way it is believed other objects do: it only exists as a dream of the one who dreamt it.

    What I'm telling you is that this is the case for all of what you think of as reality, what we are calling consensus reality, what humanity generally agrees is real. It is not real like you think it is: it exists only as a dream in Consciousness. It has a certain reality to it, yes, it exists in a certain way. All there is is Consciousness, and this exists in Consciousness as an expression of Consciousness, so it does have a certain existence. But it does not exist on its own, independently; it is only here as an expression, a projection in Consciousness, the ultimate dreamer; it does not have any existence other than that.
    Quote In traditional Advaita, there is a conceptual distinction made between three states or levels of consciousness, and then the Consciousness which is above or beyond or prior to the other three and which witnesses the three states of consciousness. The three states are the waking state, which is considered to be the least conscious state or the deepest stupor; the dreaming state; and the consciousness which is there in deep sleep which, ironically to most westerners, is considered to be clearest, the purest, the most 'awake' of the three. Then, there is Consciousness which perceives and experiences all three of these states, the Consciousness in which all these three states, waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, arise.

    There is an inverse awareness here; the deeper one goes into what the West calls 'unconsciousness,' the Advaita model sees as more conscious. What the West calls waking up, Advaita sees as becoming more unconscious.

    The western model is so programmed into our thinking, the waking state is given such priority and value, that the other states are valued only when they are interpreted in the context of waking consciousness. Thus the western psychological model is to make 'unconscious' processes conscious', that is, recognized and interpreted by the waking consciousness. And the thought patterns that occur in dreaming consciousness are endlessly interpreted by the waking mind. The Advaita model would see this process as backwards, as dumbing-down the 'higher' levels of consciousness in a way that is amenable to the 'lowest' level.
    Quote Dreams, and also other messages from what is called the unconscious or subconscious, often seem very strange to the waking consciousness, precisely because they do not fit into waking 'reality'. Waking consciousness then must interpret the dream to make sense of it in light of what it accepts as 'reality.'

    "This way the dream becomes the property of the waking I, and the deeper consciousness that was at work in it goes back into hiding.

    "The usual way of interpreting a dream is to translate its content into terms familiar with the waking I. If we followed the Hindus' insight into levels of consciousness, we would reverse this process. We would ask ourselves what the dreaming I knows about the waking I that the waking I cannot know about itself."
    And here's an image that I propose represents what is being pointed to here :

    Click image for larger version

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    Thus what I'm saying is the "4th" [2] is Turiya (or equally "God" or Buddha Mind) that permeates ALL of the other "levels" within which "awareness" does its dance ... yet itself remaining "untouched", or "unaffected", or "unmoved" eh ?

    Indeed, perhaps you can now intuit what true "Awakening" actually means eh ?
    Last edited by Clear Light; 7th December 2019 at 22:19. Reason: Amended the Appearance

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Well we live and learn--or is it sleep and learn--smiling.
    Thanks Clear Light good to see you.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Guish (here)
    Hi Beautiful people,

    For those who haven't seen me Physically yet,

    I recorded a video on the IDA breathing technique and here's the link:



    Much love,
    Geerish.
    Well im following you Geerish
    Your posts always illuminating
    Thanks
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Ramana said quite a few things that do not make conventional sense.
    "Neither creation nor disolution" - nothing happened.
    In deep sleep there is neither subject nor object--just Self.
    Self (one without a second) does not require anything to know that it exists.
    On waking first thing we are aware of is Self--before conditioning--concepts- etc, create the ilusion of a seperate me.
    Or rather on waking Self is aware it is---thoughtless awareness.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 8th December 2019 at 07:30.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  30. Link to Post #7636
    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Ramana said quite a few things that do not make conventional sense.
    "Neither creation nor disolution" - nothing happened.
    In deep sleep there is neither subject nor object--just Self.
    Self (one without a second) does not require anything to know that it exists.
    On waking first thing we are aware of is Self--before conditioning--concepts- etc, create the ilusion of a seperate me.
    Or rather on waking Self is aware it is---thoughtless awareness.

    Chris
    Ah, or perhaps it could be said, I suggest : What "you" truly are is an Unchanging Naturally Occurring Presence of Awareness eh ?

    But for any interested readers : Please do not confuse (s)elf with (S)elf !!!

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  32. Link to Post #7637
    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Oh, with respect to "self" / "Self", I suppose it could be described thus : The "self" is actually ONLY a subconscious Projection (you can know this directly [1]) that has no independent "free will", nor "choice", nor "intention" ... it being merely to ensure the continued "Survival" of the host Organism ... whereas "Self", our Real Nature, remains wholly Unconcerned whether or not the Worldly Body "survives" being as "it" knows that our apparent "Human Embodiment" is, I'd say, just a temporary Localisation of Primordial Awareness ... thus what is there to Fear from Death eh ?



    [1] Experientially how ? Because with the arising of the Anatta insight comes the sudden cessation of the "self" thus it is possible to differentiate between Rigpa (the Awareness that Hosts ALL appearances) and the momentary Mind "appearances" !

    Ah, but these are all just fancy words that are an attempt to Theoretically explain such an unexpected "absence of self" ... it's the Realisation that counts eh ?
    Last edited by Clear Light; 8th December 2019 at 15:22. Reason: Added [1]

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  34. Link to Post #7638
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Nasargatta was well known for asking new visitors "What have you learned abut spirituality?" The person would go into great detail on what they had found--Nasargadatta would say "Thats not it"
    No matter what was brought to him the response was the same.
    His teaching was to remove all concepts using Neity Neity--not this not this--process of elimination.
    He was also advocating be still--be quiet.

    Stephen Wolinsky is one of my favourite no nonsense teachers concentrating on his teacher Nasargadatta



    Nothing Comes From Nothing

    Last edited by greybeard; 8th December 2019 at 14:52.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Mauritius Avalon Member Guish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    https://www.spreaker.com/user/geeris...-relationships

    Hi Everyone,

    My latest podcast about how to improve relationships.

    Much love,
    Geerish.
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    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Oh, perhaps this is of interest especially for those WHO are, I suggest, "feeling trapped" and are, as such, unable to properly Relax and Enjoy LIFE in spite of what seems is a media-fest-of-never-ending-doom-and-gloom eh ?

    From Adyashanti's recent talk "The Immensity of Self" (Nov 2019)



    Quote Our spiritual search can be initiated by the ego as a reaction to the challenges of life or from the immensity of the Self. Adyashanti looks into both of these avenues of spiritual discovery and into what role the ego plays in our spiritual search. Even if our search is mainly driven by the ego at the beginning, something beyond ego can begin to move within you as the true spiritual instinct arises.

    A brief excerpt from : Dogen’s Instructions for Zazen

    Quote Therefore, put aside the intellectual practice of investigating words and chasing phrases, and learn to take the backward step that turns the light [of attention] and shines it inward. Body and mind of themselves will drop away, and your original face will manifest

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