Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[greybeard]

Hi EmEx
Actually I agree with you 100% as far as is possible in the dream state.
Over the life time of the thread I have said that enlightenment is Kindergarten again however the paradox is that it is a complete state.
You are Godrealised but a lesser voltage than the Creator.
Ramesh was joking in the quotes.

The moment the natural state is realised--life is seen as it really is and enjoyed to the full.
There is an enormous capacity for compassion yet there is also an awareness that the ignorance of the true state (Unenlightened Mind) is causing identification with the suffering/pain.
Ramana like Nasargadatta when dying of cancer said "There is pain" they just did not identify with it.
Because of the nature of spiritual work miss understandings occur --Dr Hawkins was perhaps the best at clearing these up, for me, being enlightened in our time and English speaking--- he was enlightened before this incarnation and had to come back as he ended up in the non existent void due to the misunderstanding of nothing as opposed to, no--thing.
As you said existing in a void is not possible--- however emptiness is filled with potential.
We are the field in which everything arises and subsides.
Enlightenment matures--- Ramana was i such a state of bliss that he was incapable of looking after himself--- Eckhart Tolle was only able to work for a brief period after the event, then--- two years spent sitting on a park bench in London.
Please keep contributing EmEx its appreciated
Best wishes Chris

Ps Tim is one who comes from the enlightened perspective /state
Please check this/thread

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904

[truthseekerdan]

What is enlightenment? It depends on how one is interpreting the word and from what perspective. It really is a human mind concept that comes from two joined words; enlighten = illuminate & ment = mind. So here you have it "illuminated mind" (human mind). Many "believe" or interpret "enlightenment" as a state that one has to attain in order to achieve liberation from i.e. suffering, reincarnation, etc.

From my current understanding (perspective), enlightenment is not a "static state of existence" however, it is a state of becoming more aware (awkened) to a greater reality most of us never perceive. It has nothing to do with knowledge or intelect, nor living in an otherwordly state of being like "nirvana" having visions or supernatural experiences. It is "simply" being aware of your own multi-dimensionaly state of beign or existence, and to realize that "you create your own reality" -- based on your beliefs, thoughs, emotions and desires. That is one's true 'Universal Nature' or 'enlightenment'. You may call it by many names, but for the person who "has it", it is nothing, and it is something.


Much love and blessings

[Chester]

Posted by JohnEAngel (here)
according to Eckhart Tolle we cannot evolve or transcend without the ego. it is the challenge set before us in each life time. it is a game that we must play. we are stuck in this loop, and i respectfully say that in acknowledgement to The Source. until we do transcend our imperfect disposition we will continue on until we do.

And I wonder... well, I can only speak for myself, but I love life and in all its experiential realms, not just this waking state, 3D reality I appear to be anchored in at this time.

I see this as a gift that only the "child" can have.

I see it as a role I play with "the unmanifest" in being the experiencer (thus conduit - thus the messenger/experiencer) that is privileged to be the "one" who sends back the info to that from which I came... that which on its own, could never experience anything.

It is known as "the mystery" and I simply love it.

[Chester]

Hi All – I sent a PM to greybeard and I received this reply –

Morning Chester
You should post what you have written here, its spot on.
The only constant is the field in which all arises and subsides--- you are That.
The emptiness is full of potential.
Real glad you are sober and here Chester.
Love Chris

so here is what I wrote to Chris

Hi Chris - I am really enjoying David R. Hawkins now.

I am so down with this "devotional non-duality" as it allows me to embrace the false reality as if it were real, but I am able to drop it like a hot potato the instant things go weird.

I see this too now... Yes, Tim {Tim Freke} has a cool view... "both / and" but I have thought more about it all... emptiness can exist all on its own, but we can never see it that way unless we are immersed in form.

Yet "form" always suggest "not form" because form cannot exist without contrast... thus for me, what is actually real, even though it can only be pointed to, is this emptiness and all else is illusory.

I find that "knowing" this... meaning when I let my "ego" melt away and I am in that strange, almost trance state... before the mind starts to think about it... before it begins to think, "wow, this is so still... so peaceful" which makes it unpeaceful at that very flicker of a thought... I realize that I am "that"... that pure unmanifest... and that’s all I actually know (and all I actually can know).

That is REAL but I also destroy the realness the moment I think that thought or say or write those words.

I think this is really starting to sink in because of the evidence - that evidence being that my life has become consistently peaceful.

Sure glad you are here (and sober) and I am sure glad I am sober and here.

Take Care
Chester

[Mark]

Hi, EmEx:

Posted by EmEx (here)
Christ said, there are greater states of Illumination after we leave this
earth and he also said, no one can enter the void.
Only logical because if that was to happen life would cease to exist.

This paraphrase caught my attention. The Hermetists say that void is the ALL, they also call it LIVING MIND to encompass the two aspects which typify experience, life and consciousness.

"No one" can enter the void because the little "one" is submerged within the Big "One". Sense of self disappears. For those who experience non-abiding awareness, who do experience the voidness, their life remains, but while they are there, their sense of self dissipates and only returns by degrees once their consciousness re-enters the body.

Posted by EmEx (here)
I wanted to express a different point of view, because the idea that life is
over after enlightenment might scare people off.

People should enjoy their lives. This path should not be embarked upon until one is ready. If there is still life to enjoy, if you still want to go out and party, visit all parts of the world in the flesh, enjoy the delights of culinary dishes and revel in the senses, to include the emotions and all that entails, then perhaps it is not time yet to pursue non-abiding awareness. Once the experiences that reveal the true nature of reality occur, there is no going back. All of those things can still be experienced, but the way the experience is processed is different. Qualitatively, there remains no "one" defined in a purely worldly, sensate manner, to continue to enjoy them.

With that said, for some people, it happens due to past life progression. They come here ready from an early age. For those folks, they may go through the motions but always stand apart in observational mode, aware that they are not experiencing the same immersion within pleasure that others are. For them, the non-abiding awareness and events and the sidhis appear early but without cultural reference here in the West, they do not know why they are experiencing things others do not.

Posted by justoneman (here)
And I wonder... well, I can only speak for myself, but I love life and in all its experiential realms, not just this waking state, 3D reality I appear to be anchored in at this time.

I see this as a gift that only the "child" can have.

The innocence of a child. Yes. Jesus spoke of that also. The only way to enter the Kingdom of God. Children accept life as it is presented to them in each instant. They live more in the Now moment than most of us do until they are weighed down by the burden of culture, taught by family, friends and society. Being able to regain that trust that everything is ok always and look at things as if they are new again is an act of freedom. A clarity that emanates, radiates from those who live it. Peace, joy, contentedness whatever the circumstances.

[Chester]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Hi Greybeard, I am amenable to spending time in this thread and interacting on this topic with folks.

One thing that I have been wondering about are others experiences in Awakening.

I'm not talking about political or conspiratorial awakening, but instead, the Awakening described by the Ancients and Mystics. The awakening of spirit.

What I have found to be quite disconcerting and unexpected is the way that others in your life interact with you once you've had an experience that marks a clear before/after point in your life. These are some the characteristics I have noted:

1) They act as if nothing has happened.

2) They get angry.

3) They do not believe you.

4) They continue to act as if you are the same as you were before even if your energy, personality and bearing is markedly different.

In all of the old societies when someone would awaken to the extent that they were no longer the same person they were before, they would always leave. They always spent time in the Desert or the Forest, their shift in behavior and focus was done during a period of aloneness, time away from others. Therefore, when they returned to the space of community, they were fully ensconced within their new personality matrix and were able to make a clear distinction between who they were before and who they had then become.

And yet, there are the numerous tales in the Buddhist tradition where Awakening would occur to numerous people, sometimes individually, sometimes in pairs or trios, other times in the hundreds, or the thousands. But there are no tales about how they dealt with the Awakening experience and reconciled it with the lives they lead thereafter.

I have come to conclusions and also have developed strategies in dealing with this but would love to hear other people's accounts, if there are still any around the forum who have experienced Kensho/Satori events.

Bless.

It seems to me that in most cases of awakening, there might not be a solid line one crosses where one is full blown (stark raving) awakened. So, in retrospect, I can see how, once I discovered the depths of the mystery and had moved past the initial pink cloud stage... new doubt started to creep in. So yes, I found I experienced much of #2, was resentful a bit that I experienced #1, realized #3 was because I expected them to believe my words that I am this amazing new man (instead of allowing my supposed newly transformed being to be the thing "speaking") and #4 because I had to accept that in truth, I had not actually (fully) awakened.

Instead I had tasted awakening and indeed it had a profound initial effect, but only now can I see that there is a great deal of continuous work needed to anchor consistently this Higher Self.

If I had to rate what stage of full blown, completely transformational awakening I am at on a scale of 1 to 10, I would say I am around level 2.

But to be at level 2 in a world where 99.9% of the rest are either asleep or at level 1... and that even though there are folks who are subconsciously at a much higher level, until one connects the conscious with the subconscious so they can have the types of conversations we are having in this thread I place them in the "asleep" category, then to be at level 2 is quite amazing.

I find getting past those 4 frustrations to be so freaking amazing as I seem to be founded by a peace that knows deep, deep down... every spirit has their moment and the time keeper is not me.

Another thing I found that helps a lot is (again another wisdom I learned via AA) - "Keep it Simple (stupid)." The "stupid" part works well for me as I have, for most of my life, thought I knew it all or at least could know it all... but as we know, that rabbit hole goes quite deep... probably eternally deep.

and as to the innocence of a child - right on bro. I might add that at this level 2 stage of my own awakening, I am beginning to see how others who are awakening so often reach places of comfort in their exploration and then, quite innocently, think that their experiential paradigm is the one and only. I am beginning to see those folks as children and that my ability to allow, honor and support their exploration is perhaps showing signs of true, spiritual maturity. Of course, the minute I say that... my ego says (hahaha - "Got ya right where I want ya, boy") and I fall back down again.

[greybeard]

Thanks Chester for the sharing.
My awakening started with getting over the horrors of alcoholism (suicidal and delirium tremors included) through AA.
The late Dr David Hawkins who had a close relationship with Bill W said "If you want to make fast spiritual progress become an alcoholic and join AA"

Bill W had a full spiritual awakening---- It is the spiritual energy of unconditional love that gets through to hardened alcoholics.

The basic ingredients for recovery are, that, you are helpless over this illness, you need help, you must ask for it and surrender is ongoing.
The ego--strong will is the downfall--- strong willpower just does not work on this one.

A heart felt prayer for all still suffering alcoholics --- you don’t have to ---go to an AA meeting.
Im not often in your face-- but on this --that’s the way it is.

Chris

[Rich]

Is something going on or is it just me?

[greybeard]

What do you feel is happening with you EmEx?

Regards Chris

[Rich]

Lots of Bliss lately. Thought maybe something is happening globally or collectively, but maybe just me because I meditated more lately.

The other day I was in town and people were angels and glowing.

[greybeard]

Hi EmEx thanks for sharing your experience.
I certainly would not in anyway minimise what happened with you.
Dr Hawkins said we would have a change of perception and that seems to be what you are having.
There is a thread https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post602255
where a quite lot of people share their experiences.

Chris

[Rich]

Thanks Chris, I am touched by your kindness!

to clarify:

What I meant was, if there is new energy coming in that we here seem to experience, the spiritual threads seem to be buzzing with energy.

It's hard to say; like when I had an awakening... my family seemed kinder and more understanding, I didn't know whether they had changed or I was simply seeing them more for their true being, probably some of both.

Of course the individual experience is different, but when I read this thread it looks like many of us experience something.

[greybeard]

Does God Control Our Lives?

Spiritual Author Nanci Danison's
BACKWARDS Glimpse
© 2013

Nanci Danison news letter

I recently read a near-death experience book that portrayed the author's life as a series of events directed and controlled by God--a traditional religious belief. That got me thinking about how seeing the same events from a different perspective can make a world of difference. It can literally turn a victim into a powerful spiritual force.



Many of us believe that God micromanages our daily lives. God decides what good events we will experience and punishes us for transgressions or omissions with bad events. This viewpoint is chock full of beliefs that we are cut off from our Creator, isolated, controlled by a being outside ourselves, and powerless to change our lives because they are dictated by someone else. In essence, we are victims of God's whim. While in the afterlife, I learned that such beliefs are the result of human fear and superstition. And they can be corrected through enlightenment.



The "knowings" I received while living in the afterlife taught me a new model of our relationship with our Creator. I was shown that Source is an all-loving, and not controlling, immense intelligent energy field with emotions, imagination, and life of its own. Source has an innate personality or set of character traits that are immutable and constitute its "core" consciousness. In addition, Source has created within its own mind all of the personalities/characters that we call "souls." We are those souls within Source's mind; we are parts of Source. And we have been given complete free will to pick and choose the events of the physical lives of the creatures we inhabit. We either allow the host body to lead its animal life with us just going along for the ride, or, we manifest into physical reality what we truly and deeply believe about human life and ourselves within it.



So, because we are parts of Source's mind, and we have the ability to control the actions and lives of the human hosts we inhabit (whether we exercise it or not), Source in a very limited sense does control human lives through us. The difference between this model of life, and the religious model, is who has the power. In the religious model, God is all powerful and we are powerless. The religious model assumes that the core consciousness of Source directs and controls everything in the physical world. In the model I was given in the afterlife, we ARE parts of God and are therefore powerful spiritual forces ourselves. We direct and control our own lives as Source.



Thank you for being open to the messages I have returned from the afterlife to share.



Nanci


Nanci L. Danison, JD, afterlife experiencer, attorney, and author of BACKWARDS: Returning to Our Source for Answers, BACKWARDS Guidebook, BACKWARDS Beliefs: Revealing Eternal Truths Hidden in Religions, and the Light Answers to Tough Questions series of CDs and DVDs (A.P. Lee & Co., Ltd., Publishers). Visit me at www.BackwardsBooks.com or watch me on YouTube.

Subscribe to this newsletter at www.BackwardsBooks.com.

[skippy]

Following a video from the French-Jewish philosopher, Emmanuel Levinas (1906-1995). In this video Levinas is posing questions on (the ambition to attain) the state of beingness from a self-interested, self-centered point of view. As an alternative, he's discussing the accomplishment of "dis-interestedness" as an alternative state of being human.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-1MtMzXNGbs

[greybeard]

Hi Skippy
Im happy for you and anyone else to post videos in any language, particularly if they have English sub titles (for my benefit)

Spirituality knows no boundaries, in fact one of the differences between religion and spirituality, is that with spirituality, there might be difference of opinions but not to the point of being out right divisive. Religion tends to be decisive, WE GOT IT RIGHT the rest are wrong to varying degrees.

Chris

[greybeard]

Gregg Braden - The Deepest Truth of Our Existence - Interviewed by Nathan Crane


Gregg Braden shares his wisdom on the new world that is emerging and how our current existence is directly related to the future of the planet.

Nathan Crane interviews Gregg Braden about his transformational book Deep Truth, Igniting the Memory of Our Origin, History, Destiny, and Fate on Conscious Intuitive Living.

Nathan Crane is a personal growth teacher and author and founder of The Panacea Community, an organization dedicated to spreading consciousness around the planet.

Nathan Crane http://www.nathancrane.com

The Panacea Community http://www.thepanaceacommunity.com

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=p57TYlz1Qpc

[greybeard]

We Are The Creators Of The Universe


Outstanding video which depicts that consciousness is what drives and shapes everything. This means ultimately everything in the universe and that even matter is consciousness in the most subtlest and dense form.

This video has Grant Morrisson, David Lynch, David Icke, Gregg Braden, Michael Talbot, David Wilcock, Wayne Dyer, Neil Kramer and Bill Hicks in it.

Like us @ www.facebook.com/EducateInspireChange

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bP7XALC_V6c

[truthseekerdan]

Posted by greybeard (here)
We Are The Creators Of The Universe

The issue is that the Universe does not even exist the way most believe...

Remember this, " that thought is real -- everything else is an illusion".

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vnvM_YAwX4I

[greybeard]

Not The Wind, Not The Flag

Two monks were watching a flag flapping in the wind.
One said to the other, "The flag is moving."
The other replied, "The wind is moving."

Huineng overheard this. He said, "Not the flag, not the wind; mind is moving."

Of the two monks, Wumen says they were trying to buy iron; Huineng, out of compassion, gave them gold instead.
This kōan demonstrates the realization that in naming an object one may cloud one's understanding of the true nature
of mind by falling into externalization and believing that the true nature of the flag, the wind, and the mind are different.
Hui Neng always taught the One Vehicle Buddhism of One Mind which teaches that wisdom (Sanskrit: prajna) comes
from the Essence of Mind and not from an exterior source.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate


Thanks to Tim for sharing this

[truthseekerdan]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VmoRy7r-4Uw