Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[greybeard]

Posted by lightblue (here)
chris

At some point in time the teacher will advise you to throw the books away, but for all that you must first have applied your self to discovering the Truth within.
There have been those who have given up and within a short period of time enlightenment occurred
but they put in the work first.

i think it's more about keeping your heart open to recognising it ... very fine examples then start flooding in from all over the place...

the better the teacher, the sooner you find you don't need one...in fact, i think you only need one for orientation, the most important "rest" inevitably has to be done withinin one's as selfless self...

not a short course... not uneventful ... l
.

Agreed my friend, whatever works.
Many different paths
I can only say what I have experienced and read so far.
Mind you I rarely read or listen to cds now.

Coincidence synchronism and strong pulls which I resisted led me to rather more than one teacher.
Not space here to go into detail but kundalini awakened within my body and I did not even know what it was.
It is not in the realms of British knowledge, there is no way it could be auto sugestion.

The movement was weird and unusual, I was meditating and all of a sudden the upper body started to gyrate, my head brushing the floor, almost a physical impossibility, a few weeks later I mentioned these symptoms to a friend and he sugested getting in touch with a teacher in London
He sent me information which tailed completely with what was happening and mentioned that some friends of his were going out to see and India Sage Dr Goels
who had written books on Kundalini, I went.
There were more coincidences etc to get me to go but go I did.
If my heart had not been open and my head able to think out of the box it would not have ventured to India.
Link for one of the late Dr Goel books.

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDK142/


In passing there are level of enlightenment, one of the first is a change in perception where there is no longer the filter of ego, it seems complete.
It is not though classic God realization as attested to by sages in India for ten thousand years before Christ, the ancient Vedas
Simply its a higher spiritual vibration, nothing but atoms in movement.

Getting a still mind is progress enough, nothing is taken personally for more than a moment, nothing carried on to the next moment.
life's challenges remain exactly the same but attitude is somewhat changed.

Namaste

[lightblue]

chris

The ego can not stand the power of spiritual truth and will fight with all kinds of seeming rational argument.

"seemingly rational argument"..i think you meant "rational argument" against entrusing your development into a teachers hands...i'd say the very same rational mind can bring you into the clutches of a not so competent/committed instructor....

Coincidence synchronism and strong pulls which I resisted led me to rather more than one teacher.
Not space here to go into detail but kundalini awakened within my body and I did not even know what it was.

thanks for oointing this out, i feel this is very important.. coincidence sinchronicities are best not ignored ...it makes the path less traumatic - accepting that everything comes your way for a reason....tracking it and looking back at instances is fun...

for the ones looking for orientation, i'd say loook no further than your entries on this thread...i agree with what you are often reiterating - it's all really very simple provided you pay attention to every little detail in and around you without you getting attached to your sense of outwardly self - your self/ego in relation to others...because if you have a habit of doing that, you are in competition....you wanna avoid that..may bog you down for a long while... l

.

[greybeard]

My head is in the tigers mouth.
Some will know what I mean Laughing.
Namaste

[lightblue]

.

My head is in the tigers mouth.
Some will know what I mean Laughing.
Namaste

i honestly don't... haven't come accross that expression... l

.

[truthseekerdan]

Without the silence and calm within our being, there cannot be any real appreciation of life. By moving deeper within our conscious mind, we enter an elevated state of understanding and enlightenment where profound truth is abundant. When we find the silence and calm within our being we begin to experience the true joy and meaning of oneness which reveals a sense of the eternal rhythms of our own true nature.

As we become more organized, we become more self-aware and as we become more self-aware, we become enlightened. As we become enlightened, we become universally aware and as we become universally aware, we eventually become universal. As a universal being, we realize the universe is doubling back upon itself to become aware of it self. As the universe becomes aware of itself, it becomes the ultimate presence and as the ultimate presence, it is all things, just as we are all things to each other in this universe.

Namaste

[greybeard]

Thanks for your input Dan, always appreciated.

Before enlightenment ---- Chopping wood fetching water
After enlightenment ------Chopping wood fetching water

So what has changed?
Perecption has, the world is no longer seen through the lens of ego mind.
The famous Zen pictures of herding oxen, the beast is tamed.

Yoga is union with God
In India there is a linage of Masters goin back thousands of years
The traditional way is to study under a master

There are various yogas some of the heart and some of the mind.
Advaita is the removal of mind by the mind.

The method suggested by Ramana is Self enquiry, Searching within for the answer to the question "Who am I?"
So the student spends many years learning from the master and all bing well eventually becomes a master.
The master can say that the world is the same but perception has changed.

Nothing is taken personally life goes on as before but attitude is entirely different as there is no person left.
There is no enemy out there.

Ego requires identification with the me story, Advaita removes that idea or atleast tames ego to the degree that the mind is quiet.
So the paradox is that a teacher can say "Just be in the moment", total acceptance of what is, but it took years of study under a master to get the quiet mind.
The Indians call the usual state of mind "The monkey mind"

The path of heart is complete humility and devotion to God.

Yogananda advocated and taught Kriya yoga as science,
The thread "A spiritual diary" here is full of his teaching.
His most famous books "An autobiography of a Yogii" and "Divine romance"
.Both well worth reading.

Sepia in another thread here out lines the various pathways.

Science is now catching up see the video a litle further back " Science = Energy = God"
In it the speaker read a book which stated that Yogis thousands of years back shrank their consciousness in meditation to investigate the atom and found within a vortex, the speaker then persued that truth through scientific research.

Th enlightened state is normal, our state abnormal.
Followers of a teacher see it as special, it is not but it is an entirely differnt state which takes time to enter, concepts and belief systems are removed by ones effort and the grace of God
We all have that seed within but it has to be nurtured.

The advice is "Take one step towards God and He will take ten towards you"
One Master was asked "Are you God?" the answer "Yes but so are you but you dont know it yet"

It can be talked about but then it becomes a concept, only subjective experience gives that knowing.

Enlightenment has various level of spiritual energy but is seen as kindergarten by even higher states.

We are in the university of consciousness here and when we grauate we go on to celestial realms to continue our journey.
We can only go so far here as planet Earth is comparatively low vibration very dense, much negativity, violence, ego.

In the west enlightened teachers are not common so it is not that easy to get a master to study under.
it takes enormous spiritual energy to overcome the ego so the master could be considered to be at high voltage and through entrainment lifts the voltage of the student.

The ego will disregard what does not suit it
It thinks it can be an enlightened ego it thinks it master.
No the ego can not be enlightened it is the obstacle to be transcended.

Eckhart says that the words that flow through him have some infromation value but are just the carrier of the energy of enlightenment.
It is all down to spiritual vibration.

However the overall spiritual vibration is being raised and it would seem some separation is occurring.

The violence increasing but so is compassion.

If Dolores Cannon and some others are to be believed we are heading for a new earth.
It would seem that we are heading for an event where many will be enlightened.

Let us pray and hope so.

Namaste

[greybeard]

More science and spirituality.
Heady stuff.
C

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KdvxnajpZ3o

[giovonni]

Wow Chris, maybe another listen or two...then...
If~ i can keep my monkey mind quiet (long enough) to allow the waves to pass through the two slits in my head, i'm hoping to grasp and make sense (of the real hidden order) that has been hidden from all of us for way too long ~ on that other side

[Roseheart]

Thank you Greybeard for this thread.
I have been stuck in the other threads here and have only just looked here...
It feels like home... I will now go back to page one and read more.
I too had the kundalini experience without knowing what had happened. It started after doing yoga fairly intensely for a few months.
I discovered after the fact the 'naming' of it. It was beautiful because it was completely natural when it occured and I couldn't label it in any way - just experience it and enjoy it. I've since heard you can have a fairly rough time with kundalini but my experiences have only been positive.
I agree with you that life actually goes on as the vibration changes - it is the same world with all it's challenges yet, everything is appreciated and interacted with in a more flowing way... Things pass by with grace, even when anger rises. There is more a moment to moment movement and a real recognition when you are 'in story' and not flowing. All the ego stuff still happens - it is just so much clearer when it does. It 'feels' clunky and heavy when the negative ego pops in...
Many blessings to everyone contributing on this thread. x

[greybeard]

Posted by Roseheart (here)
Thank you Greybeard for this thread.
I have been stuck in the other threads here and have only just looked here...
It feels like home... I will now go back to page one and read more.
I too had the kundalini experience without knowing what had happened. It started after doing yoga fairly intensely for a few months.
I discovered after the fact the 'naming' of it. It was beautiful because it was completely natural when it occured and I couldn't label it in any way - just experience it and enjoy it. I've since heard you can have a fairly rough time with kundalini but my experiences have only been positive.
I agree with you that life actually goes on as the vibration changes - it is the same world with all it's challenges yet, everything is appreciated and interacted with in a more flowing way... Things pass by with grace, even when anger rises. There is more a moment to moment movement and a real recognition when you are 'in story' and not flowing. All the ego stuff still happens - it is just so much clearer when it does. It 'feels' clunky and heavy when the negative ego pops in...
Many blessings to everyone contributing on this thread. x

Hi good to see you.
The awakening caused no problems however the sage said when this happens you are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti.
So material changes happened--- business went --- family went amicably-- house went -- car went-- boat went---.
So I have no responsibilities and just enough to live on.
So while some might see that as a problem I am comfortable and accept it.
I feel looked after, such is the grace of God

Chris

Ps I went from Chairman of this and that, successful businessman, sailing champion, performing musician to non entity.

Do I care? not on bit.
Divine madness.
My friends point to what I seem to have lost but are not aware of what I have "gained".

ch
PPs all this happened with Divine timing.
Children grown up, Ex has the family house.
Nobody lost out, all are cared for.
I could not of organized all that happened.
ch

[greybeard]

This thread has had 28,000 visits to my surprise..
I would like to thank all visitors and contributors.

I have learned much and hope to continue to do so from all who contribute here.

People are obviously interested in the subject and thats a good sign.

Seems we are moving into a Golden Age and we need to be ready, choosing love instead of fear.

When the first post was made in original Avalon I thought it might last a few weeks and I am amazed that it is still running.

I would like to see more people posting here.
Its your thread I only started it.

All points of view on the subject are welcome, they might be different from mine and that is healthy.
Debate is important and here it has always happened in a respectful way and hopefully will continue to do so.

So please feel free to contribute.

Thanks Chris

[truthseekerdan]

A man approaches a Zen Master and asks to be shown the path to enlightenment. The Master replies, "Okay, follow me," stands up, and walks the man to a nearby river and into the water. Without warning, the Master forces the man's head under the water and holds it there as he struggles violently for his life, until he is nearly dead. At last the Master pulls the man up, gasping for air, and says, "When you want to be enlightened as badly as you wanted to take your next breath just now, come back and see me."

So those seem to be our two main choices: Either we're presently, already enlightened and simply don't know it, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that can help us achieve the recognition that there is nothing to achieve -- or, we're clearly very far from enlightenment and we need to be willing to sacrifice our very lives to get to the Truth, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that will help us achieve that. In either case, good luck! In the meantime, it seems to me that it behooves us spiritual seekers to get on with our day.

Namaste

[greybeard]

Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
A man approaches a Zen Master and asks to be shown the path to enlightenment. The Master replies, "Okay, follow me," stands up, and walks the man to a nearby river and into the water. Without warning, the Master forces the man's head under the water and holds it there as he struggles violently for his life, until he is nearly dead. At last the Master pulls the man up, gasping for air, and says, "When you want to be enlightened as badly as you wanted to take your next breath just now, come back and see me."

So those seem to be our two main choices: Either we're presently, already enlightened and simply don't know it, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that can help us achieve the recognition that there is nothing to achieve -- or, we're clearly very far from enlightenment and we need to be willing to sacrifice our very lives to get to the Truth, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that will help us achieve that. In either case, good luck! In the meantime, it seems to me that it behooves us spiritual seekers to get on with our day.

Namaste

Im awy to chop wood and fetch water.

John Lennon
"Nothing is real. nothing to go on about"

C

[lightblue]

Im awy to chop wood and fetch water.

John Lennon
"Nothing is real. nothing to go on about"

except consciousness?


.

[greybeard]

Consciousness explained in a debate by Krishamurty and David Bohm

Well worth watching after a slow start.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ohJuREhJ_OY

[Virilis]

I always thought that Mark Hedsel's treatise on the nature of the Ego was quite intriguing. He approached the subject from an esoteric perspective in his book, "The Zelator: A Modern Initiate Explores the Ancient Mysteries".

There's an electronic version of his book that you can access via this link:

The Zelator

Here's a brief excerpt from the book, that illustrates his conception of the Ego & its relation to our other Spiritual 'bodies'.


"In esotericism, the Ego is the Self. This Self is a droplet of the Universal Mind, or Godhead. The Sanskrit term, manas, which may be translated as 'the immortal individual', as much as the 'higher mind', is the equivalent of the real Ego. It is that droplet of the Godhead which has sought experience through involvement with matter. This minute particle of the Godhead is directed into matter in order to perceive Itself, or to gain experience in the realm of Its own creation.

Because it holds this direct connection with the Godhead, the fully developed Ego is indestructible. However, through the effects of incarnation, and the consequent darkening through involvement in matter, the human Ego does not remain omniscient, like its Godhead source. In this sense - in that its cosmic knowledge is limited by the 'hooding' mask of selfhood - the Ego rarely works with its full spiritual potential. From incarnation to incarnation the Ego dwells in what must be termed spiritual darkness in comparison with the light of the spiritual planes. Even so, it is possible for the Ego, through its own efforts, to regain its former potential, and to remove this darkening selfhood from the eyes.

While in life - chained to a physical body - the Ego must work into matter through three organs or 'bodies', called in esotericism the Astral, the Etheric and the Physical. These bodies are controlled by the human Ego, which the hermetic literature describes as sweeping down from the Spiritual World like a great bird - a pelican, phoenix or swan - to dwell in flesh on the material realm.

The Ego is not entirely alone when cast adrift from the higher Spiritual world. It is accompanied by three higher Spiritual bodies, invisible to ordinary vision. Like the goddess Venus, the Ego is attended by three Graces, a triad of Spiritual beings, who weave a stately dance around her. In these three beings, we trace the three higher Spiritual companions of the new-born Ego: in modern esoteric literature, these are called the Atman, Buddhi and Manas.

The Ego is pulled to the Earth realm by three lower bodies (Astral, Etheric & Physical). These cushion it from, and link it with, the material world.

The Seven Bodies

ATMAN:
BUDDHI: Spiritual bodies not yet adequately developed by non-initiates. Still embryonic in ordinary man
MANAS:

EGO: The sacred SELF. It is this invisible body that most Westerners are now developing. This is the seat of control over Will.

ASTRAL: The Spiritual body of emotions, desires etc.

ETHERIC: The Spiritual body of memory. It maintains the physical in cellular activity, and transmits emotions and desires to the physical.

PHYSICAL: The only visible body in man. By nature (that is, when divorced from the etheric) it enters a state of death, and is in molecular activity. During life it is maintained in cellular activity, through its immersion in the Etheric.



The Ego is itself a reflecting glass - a sort of mirror of potential - so that the Astral below it is reflected in the Manas above: the Physical is reflected in the highest Atman. This mirror image sets out the future development of mankind: for example, it is through the development of the Spiritual potential in the Atman that the physical will be redeemed."

I like Hedsel's metaphor of the Ego functioning like a sort of mirror of potential. Perhaps it is more important to polish this mirror rather than transcend it?

[Roseheart]

Hi good to see you.
The awakening caused no problems however the sage said when this happens you are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti.
So material changes happened--- business went --- family went amicably-- house went -- car went-- boat went---.
So I have no responsibilities and just enough to live on.
So while some might see that as a problem I am comfortable and accept it.
I feel looked after, such is the grace of God

Chris

Ps I went from Chairman of this and that, successful businessman, sailing champion, performing musician to non entity.

Do I care? not on bit.
Divine madness.
My friends point to what I seem to have lost but are not aware of what I have "gained".

ch
PPs all this happened with Divine timing.
Children grown up, Ex has the family house.
Nobody lost out, all are cared for.
I could not of organized all that happened.
ch[/QUOTE]

This is funny because I too have gone from one extreme to the other!
I was a famous person her in Australia when I was younger and enjoyed my time in the limelight but felt a yearning, ...
I am now living hand to mouth, don't have a job currently, have lost my 'status' in the public domain and have never been happier.
Next year we move to the middle of nowhere.
I am just me now.

[greybeard]

Yes Roseheart

There is tremendous freedom in letting go.
What a relief in not having to be right.
The various occupations required a degree of accuracy.
When I had the home for the elderly absolutely everything had to be documented.
There were written procedures for everything.

A short story

it was a small home only 16 residents.
Environmental health came to call. (health and safety)
There was a resident in the kitchen making a snack.
The inspector was not happy, I pointed out it was the persons home therefore she had every right to be in the kitchen.
The inspector pointed out she did not have a hygiene diploma and they could close down the home if residents continued to use the kitchen.
I informed social work, who also inspect and was informed they could close down the home if I did not allow residents in the kitchen.

I referred one authority to the other.

Seemingly there was top level management meetings to argue out who was right. At great expense no doubt.
After three month a decision was reached
I had to provide cooking facilities else where for the residents to make snacks.
Residents were to be supervised during this.
Lord above they had survived many years in their own kitchens and none were that infirm.
The facilities were never used.
The stress level running the place was horrendous I burst an ulcer at one point.
That was fifteen years ago and I have fond memories of residents and staff --- angels all.
So to say the least I am poor but happy.

Meditation etc restored sanity or what ever passes for that condition. lol

Just me is good.

Chris

[Roseheart]

Greybeard your heart is beautiful and I'll bet the residents and the staff benefited from their time with you.

[greybeard]

Thanks Roseheart

We all have it. (a beautiful spiritual heart)
When you can admit to your vulnerability and let love flow, knowing full well you may get hurt, then life provides opportunity for spiritual growth.

He who has not been hurt has not lived and has not truly loved.
Love any way.

If people knew better they would do better.

We cant help our conditioning which may make trusting difficult.
Trust anyway but not naively.

Love the person without judging the action, yet be aware of what is a life supporting act. appropriate or otherwise.

Namaste

Chris