Enlightenment and related matters.

[greybeard]

Hi Dan
thats is a very good account of a valid experience.
I dont think you can know it till you are it so to speak.
We are in waiting talking bout it, unfortunately.
There is much miss understanding about the void.
Dr David Hawkins was on the Buddhist path previous to this life time and ended up in the void.
It seemed final but he had to come back, there was no God there no Love.
He is now fully enlightened and explains that the Buddha meant no-thing not nothing. ie formless.
I havent read other paths other than Buddhism talk about the void.
It took David Hawkins years to recover from God shock in order to give some explanation of what the state of enlightenment is and even after the initial level of enlightenment it progressed through further levels to the highest possible in this world according to the books "he" has written.
Its not personal in that there is no person left to be enlightened.
There is no time it is "experienced" as non-locality, formless, egol-ess -nonduality .
it is beyond our understanding.
Its an awareness a presence that existed before all universes were created and will remain after all universes cease to exist.
it is the totality yet none of it.
Words can only point to it.
Im doing my best from memory to convey what he has said.
It really best to read one of his books I would recommend "Discovery of the Presence of God /Devotional Non-duality"
Second hand from me is second hand.

Its our different insights that point to the Truth

Regards and love to you my friend Dan.

[greybeard]

Ps Dan the quote you have posted is in the main concordant with what David Hawkins says.
He says everything is autonomous fulfilling its own potential and that evolution and creation is the same thing and that God in His essence is present in every moment of creation. Infinity is beyond our understanding. It does seem though in my understanding that universes come into being then --cease to exist. Bit like the ebb and flow of the tide. There is also the fact that as God is formless ( David Hawkins experience) so are we. So we come from the formless and go back to the formless. I think the same thing happens with universes. Eckhart Tolle also says we were present before universes were formed and will be after all universes cease to exist.
The sages know. The void "word" meant two different things. Hawkins says that what the Buddha said was mistranslated and -miss-understood. However if you believe in the void you end up there after death. Between lives is not the same as enlightenment.
I smile when people contact the dead relatives for advice. If uncle Hary was an idiot when alive Im afraid he is an idiot on the other side too.
Im afraid I cant be serious for too long.
Who knows.
I don't.
Please Lord remove my ignorance.
Chris

[kriya]

Posted by greybeard (here)
I smile when people contact the dead relatives for advice. If uncle Hary was an idiot when alive Im afraid he is an idiot on the other side too.
Im afraid I cant be serious for too long.

Chris

That's so true. Also, PY said if you haven't met God in your physical body, you ain't gonna meet him when your dead either!

I once saw a documentary about Aileen Wournos, the seriel killer from Florida. She was clearly insane and should have been in a mental hospital, rather than sentenced to death. Anyway, in an interview she said that she didn't care about death because she was going to be with Jesus. Which proves her insanity!!

[greybeard]

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

[grace]

hello all,
i've been getting a real sense for what it means to be egoless lately. i had to come to conclusions about the ego by myself, as i used to hate when i would hear someone talking about making the release of your ego a goal. i honestly don't think i could articulate what i have been coming to understand. but if i were to try, i would say the ego is the fear of being perfect. this sounds very egotistical at first, but what i mean is that at any one time, alive or dead, here or there, with or without food or clothing or friends, things are perfect. any fear or reason for hesitency in the face of this constant perfection is my ego. there are two words that define everything i would say about the ego: Let Go.

[greybeard]

Posted by grace (here)
hello all,
i've been getting a real sense for what it means to be egoless lately. i had to come to conclusions about the ego by myself, as i used to hate when i would hear someone talking about making the release of your ego a goal. i honestly don't think i could articulate what i have been coming to understand. but if i were to try, i would say the ego is the fear of being perfect. this sounds very egotistical at first, but what i mean is that at any one time, alive or dead, here or there, with or without food or clothing or friends, things are perfect. any fear or reason for hesitency in the face of this constant perfection is my ego. there are two words that define everything i would say about the ego: Let Go.

Yes Grace ego is fear and yes you are perfect regardless of outside conditions.
When the fear clouds of the ego are removed the true Self shines forth illumined.
Yes let go is the answer.
Thanks Grace for your wisdom.
Chris

[truthseekerdan]

If I could only live at the pitch that is near madness
When everything is as it was in my childhood
Violent, vivid, and of infinite possibility:
That the sun and moon broke over my head.

Then I cast time out of the trees and fields,
Then I stood immaculate in the Ego:
Then I eyed the world with all delight,
Reality was the perfection of my sight.

And time has big handles on the hands,
Fields and trees a way of being themselves,
I saw battalions of the race of mankind
Standing stolid, demanding a moral answer.

I gave the moral answer and I died
And into a realm of complexity came
Where nothing is possible but necessity
And the truth wailing there like a red babe.

By Richard Eberhart

[grace]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Yes Grace ego is fear and yes you are perfect regardless of outside conditions.
When the fear clouds of the ego are removed the true Self shines forth illumined.
Yes let go is the answer.
Thanks Grace for your wisdom.
Chris

thanks chris, just hope i can have the courage to live by the words and truly let go. it's been an extremely selfish endeavor for me.. it seems like you have to be very self focused and self aware and live that extreme of selfishness until you dwell on your self so much that you tame it down more and more until it is nothing and you have nothing left to focus on.

thanks to you for starting the thread and for all the wisdom you've shared here.

[truthseekerdan]

Ego could be defined as whatever covers up basic goodness. From an experiential point of view, what is ego covering up? It's covering up our experience of just being here, just fully being where we are, so that we can relate with the immediacy of our experience. Egolessness is a state of mind that has complete confidence in the sacredness of the world. It is unconditional well being, unconditional joy that includes all the different qualities of our experience.

- Pema Chodron

[debzqld]

Oh what a nice thread - and thanks Greybeard for posting the Desiderata (my large and rather old copy goes with me everywhere and sits atop my desk nowadays - had it since I was a small child). I love sharing this with others. I have to say that I enjoyed a lot of what many have to say on this thread - it's funny how many become fixed on their own importance, interpretations and ideas rather than gracefully add to their mind-library of knowledge. I felt enlightened by rather large chunks of this information and here I am older student of the behavioural sciences. We can all theorise as much as we like about EGO for instance, but it's the individual journey of self-reflection and self-discovery that unfolds and unmasks the all important and necessary EGO. First lesson: do not falsely believe that you are the things of the EGO. You are not any of those labels that you attach to yourself in an attempt to express yurself or identify who you think you are. Of course we need the EGO - but we must learn to let it (things) go - until then can we really say: I am Conscious therefore I AM?

[greybeard]

Causality

The ego believes there is a this causing a that ---- Duality.

My understanding is that the way the Creator set it up is, all life has potential which is unique to that individual form
Nothing, of itself, is causing anything to happen out with its own potential. ( how the ego loves to believe it is in control)

We are brought up to believe we and others cause things to happen - no we have a way of reacting to a situation a potential to react in our own way, no one or anything causes us to react in a definite way. No one cause us to be angry or happy that is our choice. The reaction comes from us alone.

An example.
The Marigold seed has the potential to grow into a marigold flower.
Rain soil sunlight create the environment for that potential to be realized but does not cause the flower to blossom. It may or may not realize its full potential.

The individual may have great latent abilities and those abilities may come to the surface if the environment is favorable.

A person may have great vision and see that vision materialize but chances are high that he or she would have to attract like minded individuals to create in harmony the project envisaged by the originator.
The idea first comes from the formless and first takes shape in the mind then continues on from there.
I wonder what placed the idea in the mind in the first place.
Could it be that our Creator had a hand in it?
If so the creation came from Oneness not ego.
Ego very often prevents and limits potential from expressing itself fully.

We may or may not realize our full potential to realize what we truly are.
No one can do this for us, it is a solitary undertaking though others may point the way and support us in our endeavor .
The ego is an obstacle to be transcended in order to do that.

The clouds may obscure the sun but never the less it is always there and will shine forth when all obstacles are removed.

Chris

[greybeard]

Eckhart Tolle, covers the subject beautifully, one comment of his that springs to mind is "Dont take your thoughts too seriously" Dr David Hawkins goes a step further " All thoughts are fallacious" however you would have to read the rest of what he said to put it into context.

It really is complex and thats where misunderstandings standings arise.
Total acceptance being in the now doesn't mean action is not taken.
Unconditional love is not warm and fuzzy it means loving the essence of all, the spirit/soul whatever. It does not mean condoning actions. Naivety== cant spell.---is not helpful.
As spiritual energy evolves/ rises to the point that unconditional love is possible, the third eye begins to open so that discernment takes place and right action occurs.

There is also an understanding that nothing escapes the law of Karma and there are consequences for every action.

Seeming victims are sometimes receiving back what they did to others in this life or past life. Its not for me to judge the right or wrong of anything.

Sometimes when another is suffering one is moved by compassion to do what can be done sometimes not.

If all action is done with integrity and the end result surrendered to God then no personal karma is incurred. If one claim the result of good action then positive karma is incurred, then you have to come back another life time to enjoy the fruits of your actions

So if you dont want to come back in humility and gratitude --- surrender -- surrender -- surrender. This also helps you to transcend ego.
It all depends on your spiritual goal. If you want enlightenment ( the ultimate goal of spiritual endeavor in this world) thats what you do according to those who are in that state. Final result is by the Grace of God.

Anyone here Kundalini awakened?

Chris
Namaste

[Ruis]

The struggle to rid one self of the Ego(mind) is really a waste of time.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99pjDWwccSo

[Ruis]

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZmqIvlPNk

[greybeard]

Thanks Ruis for the videos

One of my friends went down to a Satsang in London last year and was very impressed.
I have a DVD of his.

(The struggle to rid one self of the Ego(mind) is really a waste of time.)

Thats a pradox in that we dont actually have an ego its just a thought. Identification with the "me" story in the head.
Transcending is not a struggle, not forcing, just a change in the way that life is perceived, but that takes time until it doesn't.

Chris

[greybeard]

In essence the ego is a separation device.
Before we begin to wake to the majesty of God within all, there is me and my wants needs desires there is little understanding of Gods will for us.
The first two comandments are all that is needed.

So to begin with there is the individual looking to survive through getting needs met.
Then perhaps a relationship begins and now there is an "us" thats a step forward in aligning to God's will.
My this and that has become ours. Sharing happens.
Then if we are fortunate, there is the realization that we are the totality all of it.

Bible says that not even a sparrow can fall without God knowing.
Scientist have now proved that the smallest blade of grass is linked to the furthest star.
The first commandment is about Loving God.
The second is about loving others.
You cant love God without loving others.
To be clear that does not mean condoning all actions, discernment is required but everything that is supportive of spiritual evolution is welcomed and assisted where possible.

Nature of which we are a part is about loving.

There is scientific evidence that flowers grows more beautiful by being loved.
Vegitables grow healthier, bigger by being loved, they seem to be aware of consciousness paying attention to their needs.
This is for our common good.
We have a relationship with nature we could not survive without it.
Every relationship needs nurtured or it will wilt and not reach its full potential.
A healthy environment needs to be created for anything to reach its full potential.
The plant reaches out to the sun for nourishment, it needs also good earth for nutrition and rain to release that nutrition.
No thing survives without being in the right enviroment.
We cannot continue to accept what nature gives freely without giving back.
We have selfishly drained this earth and now face the consequences of our action and inaction.

No man is an island we all need the other and in the bonding there is the realization that we are One.
That is the way God set it up.
Everything has male and female elements and it meeting the needs of these elements in a healthy balanced way we are aligning to the will of God.
The flowers need the bee, everything is co-dependant and when thats is realized a healthy relationship is formed and blossoms.
God wants us to be all we can be without fear or limitation.

Enlightenment is the supreme act of love in that "dying" for ones fellow man lifts and benefits all. Jesus said there is nothing more noble.
The Self does not die but the ego is dissolved back into source and what remains is the fullness of human potential in this world.
One is truly aligned with and bonded with God yet retains awareness.
The Ocean always welcomes the river.

GOD IS LOVE

With love
Chris

[Ruis]

If we can connect with the divine within then the searching for the self ends.

[greybeard]

Posted by Ruis (here)
If we can connect with the divine within then the searching for the self ends.

Thats the beginning of the end Ruis.
There are different levels of connection and some are temporary in that the connection comes and goes.
The enlightened ones are permanently One with God.
Truth is there are very few people in the world who are enlightened. If it was that simple everyone would be enlightened.
The grace of God is needed.
Chris

[truthseekerdan]

There are many paths you can take, all of which will guide you into letting go of all sense of separation resulting in ego transcendence and enlightenment. Let's look through a number of options and see if we can find something that resonates with you. Mix and match based on your own intuition and experiences.

First and foremost, the ego is not something to push against, struggle with, or overcome. The ego is not something to be killed. That mindset will only set you up for more struggle with the ego sneaking in the back door. Struggle, resistance, fighting, and killing will not work. You don't defeat darkness with darkness. You transcend darkness by bringing in the light. This is a critical point.

Who is it that wants to kill the ego? Why, the ego, of course!

The ever present awareness has no problem with the ego being there. It is as it is.

So, how do we transcend the ego?

Surrender all the juice you get out of any egoic activity... being right, thinking, dreaming, wishing, judging, desiring, being angry, feeling guilty, etc.

Read books by Eckhart Tolle, David Hawkins, and Ariel Bravy.

Be fully Present as often as possible.

Learn about the ego as thoroughly as possible. Notice and learn to detect every single time the ego tries to grab its hands on you. This way, when you notice it has returned, you can surrender it again.

Don't fight it. Don't put up resistance. What you resist persists. Instead, Love the ego and the role it plays in your life, giving you the illusions of duality and opposites. Love it, accept it, and let it go.

Release all attachments and aversions.

See everything in a state of perfection. The world is perfect, just as it is. People are perfect, just as they are. This is not a judgment. This is a statement of truth.

Do not try to improve anything, including yourself. See yourself moving from a state of perfection to a state of perfection. It's about self-acceptance coupled with continuous expansion and spiritual growth.

A dying flower is not an imperfect flower, but a perfect dying flower. It is first a perfect seed, then a perfect set of roots and stem, then a perfect growing flower, then a perfect blossoming flower, then a perfect withering flower, then a perfect dead flower.

Each state is a place of perfection. Do not judge anything, call it good or bad or right or wrong. It is as it is, in a state of absolute perfection.

Higher does not imply better. A brick on the ninth floor is no better than a brick on the second floor. Flying birds are not inherently better than crawling reptiles. Higher, but not better. A higher level of consciousness is higher than a lower level, but not better.

The world is not imperfect. War, famine, disease, and all the stuff the ego sees as wrong are not bad, for bad doesn't exist. Only perfection exists. All suffering is a result of ego-sponsored actions. It's certainly not in alignment with one's higher self, but the perfection is in the process nonetheless.

Instead of seeing the world as a place of good and bad, see it as an opportunity to create whatever you want, to create yourself to be whomever you wish to be. Lifetime after lifetime, you get to keep choosing who you want to be. In this sense, this world provides the perfect opportunity to create anything. All creations are perfect. All creators are perfect. Creators and their creations are one and the same. There is no duality.

See yourself as the infinite consciousness that you are. You are not your body. You are not your mind.

In fact, they are not even your body or your mind. They do not belong to you. You are consciousness which is temporarily using this body to experience that which we call a lifetime.

The body is no more yours than the air that is currently in your lungs. In just a moment you will breathe the air out and inhale new air. In a moment, this body will fall to the ground and you will select another. The body is not yours. It belongs to existence, just like the birds and the trees.

Meditate. Spend time watching the mind in action. Notice how it works. Notice how it tries to take credit for everything you do. Surrender away any claim to "I" or "me". There is no you, only an egoic illusion that such a "you" exists.

Surrender all resistances to Love. Any negative feeling, ANY negative experience you have is directly a result of some sort of egoic identification.

With ego, good and bad exist.

Without ego, only Love exists. Everything is in a state of total perfection.

Be patient with yourself. Be kind and loving to yourself. Transcending the ego is one of the most challenging things you could possibly do.

Devote yourself to Love.

Let go of fears and begin leaning on them and plowing through. Notice that they're worse in your mind than in real life. The bark is worse than the bite.

Check out A Course in Miracles. It details a great process to help you realize that all your thoughts are illusory, they don't mean anything, and they're all a result of the ego. It will guide you to realizing deeper truths within.

Nothing you perceive is the ultimate reality. It is but a fraction of reality, and only your distorted viewpoint. Give up the need to label, categorize, judge, or rate anything in life and just look at it as it is. It is as it is. It is.

Anything you put after the statement "I am" or "It is" is a mental interpretation created by the mind.

Who are you? Spend time deeply contemplating this question. "Who am I?" Are you your name? Body? Thoughts? Mind? Emotions? Beliefs? If any of those change, are you still you? What is the "you" that is always there?

Start listening to your body. What do you feel? I don't mean what emotional state are you in, but how does food feel when you put your hand over it? How does the energy feel in the room? Can you detect the presence of others? If you slowly bring your palms closer and farther apart, can you detect the energy between them? The heat? The warmth? The magnetic attraction or repulsion? When your mind thinks a thought, do you have a good feeling about it or a bad feeling? Learn to trust your intuition. Follow it.

Realize that the intellect can never know Truth. Truth can only come from within. It is vast, infinite, beyond words. How can you describe Love using words? You can describe the feelings associated with Love, but you can verbalize Love itself.

[truthseekerdan]

The same applies to Truth. It must be experienced. Whenever it passes through a person, it is subject to their own personality, ego, worldly perspective, and level of consciousness. Thus it is filtered to a greater or lesser extent. Always. The way to access pure Truth and knowingness is to quiet the mind and raise your own level of consciousness to open yourself up to receiving Truths from within.

Open and balance your chakras. Study the affirmations that go with each chakra, internalize them, and live them. They provide an excellent blueprint for living higher level Truths and subsequently opening yourself up to higher levels of consciousness.

Learn to be lived by something other than the mind. Be lived by God. Be lived by Love. Follow your heart's truest desires.

Give up all self-doubt. ALL self-doubt. No exception. It's based in ego, fear, time, and what if's.

Drop all hypothetical situations. They're all based in ego. "What if everyone did this?" Well everyone's not doing that so it's a stupid question.

Realize that the fact that I called that a stupid question is a judgment as well. Realize that it's only stupid with the condition that given what you want to achieve, which is a state of no ego, thinking in hypothetical does not serve you. That is closer to the truth than a statement than something is stupid.

Start merging with life. Merge with other people. Merge with animals. Merge with plants. Merge with the stars and the sun. Merge with the earth. Merge with the universe. Merge with your house. Merge with the wind.

Instead of saying "There's Bob", instead say "There I am, being Bob." You are the infinite consciousness that is everyone, is everywhere. There is nowhere where you are not.

Think of yourself as energy. Your soul is kind of like your etheric body, similar to your aura. Your aura is most dense in the physical location where your physical body is, yet your aura extends infinitely far in every direction. It gets thinner and thinner, less and less dense, until it finds another "person" or being and then becomes more dense. The universe is simply sections of more or less dense energy. It is really all one connected energy. There is no place where the energy is not.

It is like the air in your house between two rooms. It's all the same air. There's no definite dividing line between where this air ends and that air begins. It all flows into itself. Yes, the air in the kitchen may smell like food and the air in the garage may smell like cars, but it's all the same air. It's simply adopted different characteristics.

Bodies are the same way. It's all made from the same "stuff", the same energy. They've simply adopted different characteristics.

Different notes on a musical scale are all musical notes. They just have different characteristics. In truth, each note is part of a larger group called musical notes, which is part of a larger group called sound vibration, which is part of a larger group called vibration, which is just another name for energy, which is another name for your soul, which is just a higher vibrational frequency version of your physical body, which you perceive as you.

The musical notes are you. Everything is you. You and I are one. We are all one.

See things as together. See the unity in All That Is.

Drop the ego's need to separate, break apart, divide, judge, criticize. That's all illusion. It really and truly is.

Constantly feel yourself living in a state of Oneness. Continuously open yourself up to the Divine. Feel your connection to All That Is.

Start living your life this way and your ego is gone.



Ego? What ego?

Oh, one more important point.

Release the need to get to a certain point by a certain date.

By doing so, you're actually strengthening the ego. The ego operates by setting goals out in the future and trying to achieve them in order to feel successful. This is a very yang activity.

You're basically telling yourself, "I am not enlightened, but one day I will be."

No, you already ARE enlightened. There's nowhere to get to. The only thing to do is release the ego Now, in this moment, over and over again.

The sun is already shining, but the clouds of the ego are in the way. The trick is to remove the clouds and allow the light that is ALREADY THERE to shine through.

You don't get to the state of not having an ego, where there is no time, by setting a date and getting there through the ego, by traveling through time. You don't transcend duality by going through duality. You transcend it by rising above it and reaching out towards nonduality and Oneness.

Adopt a more yin attitude towards spiritual growth. You release the ego's attachment to desires and allow yourself to be LIVED by God, to be LIVED by Life, to be LIVED by Love.

Allow yourself to be exactly where you are now and to be guided by spiritual will which will always be in alignment with the highest good.

Forgive others.

Forgive yourself.

Forgive God.

Don't believe a word you think.

What's the fastest way to let go of the ego?

Drop it. NOW. Surrender all sense of separation.

Done. End of story.

It's truly that simple. Perhaps not easy, but simple.

If Truth was complicated, everyone would get it.

Just let go.