Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[Eram]

Posted by greybeard (here)
David Hawkins - How To Transcend Cause Effect & Past life

Potentiality become actuality.
Intention a very powerful factor.
Depends upon the spiritual vibration.

]https://youtube.com/watch?v=VIGvVMdG3HU

I enjoyed watching this youtube Chris.
As I did several others for the last few days.
When I read about him first, here in this thread, I had mistaken him for Steven hawking and thought to myself... "Was this dude enlightened, I didn't know that". lol

One of the points that he makes in this youtube, is that it is possible to pray for forgiveness, for parts in you that seem to cause negative effects in your life, even if this is for instance the experience that all people treat you rude. you can then search into yourself for the part that is rude to other people and find forgiveness for that.

Another method to do this, that I just recently started working with is the method that katie Byron teaches.
Her methodology doesn't use forgiveness to start with, but more a form of applied logic to come to the understanding that everything we feel is wrong with a certain event or person is just a story that we make up on the reality that is presented to us.
Reality (that what happens here on earth) is God (in her logic) and whatever we make up about it in our mind is a false story about this reality (ego).
She teaches 4 questions to use as a tool of inquiry to come to the understanding that everything that you thought about a certain topic (that causes you suffering) was in the end only false stories that you made up with flawed logic.


If applied properly (with sincere experiencing the attached emotions and feelings) you can end the suffering in your life with it.
It is extremely powerful to me and I'm actually a bit surprised that I haven't read about her all over the spirituality section here on Avalon before .

Where many forms of spiritual work tend to come to a point where the house of the ego is slowly fading away into thin air, her 4 questions seem to take that house apart brick by brick.
The nice thing about it is, once you have learned to work with this to some degree, you can work with it just through the day, while mowing the lawn or cooking diner.
You just scan yourself for anything that you feel resistance to at that moment and you let every emotions attached to it rise and then apply the 4 questions to it.

Have you heard of her before Chris?

[greybeard]

Hi Eram in the darkest reaches of this thread there might be mention of Byron Katie

http://www.thework.com/index.php

I have two of her books and as you say the process is very useful.
I suppose like everything else people have to be ready to honestly ask and answer the questions.
Every enlightened teacher in their own way says the same thing.
Eckhart says "Dont take your thoughts too seriously" he kind of leads people gently before occasionally saying things like.
"There was never anyone there to do anything to you."

Some times people have to be led gently to the truth.

If I say "Only God is" that scares the Sh## out most seekers in the early stages.
In truth the ego starts the search because it wants to be an enlightened ego---it does not realise it has signed its own death warrant.
You have to die to your Self--- to know your true nature.

Thanks for your great post

Chris

[Eram]

I agree, but from my own experience I have observed that some teachers are more compatible to some then others.
meaning.... Every teachers teaches a methodology that seems to fit certain people more easy then others.

For instance the statement from Tolle: "Don't take your thoughts too seriously" and the whole explanation behind it, is true of course, but for some reason that seems to be embedded in my personality, I tend to end up in the woods with it and start ignoring my thoughts and emotions and that is exactly the opposite of what I am supposed to do hahaha.

For me personally the nice thing about Katie Byron's "the work", is that I willfully search for the emotions and thoughts that create suffering and then dissolve them with proper logic and releasing.
"Using a thorn to remove a thorn" in "optima forma" in my opinion.

[greybeard]

The Ascension Study Guide
As this thread is devoted to all paths I have included a link to this.
Its not my path but certainly those who enjoy the work the Law of One will find this interesting.

http://www.transients.info/

http://www.transients.info/2013/06/t...uide.html#more

If you follow the links on this web page you will be able to read the guide on line.
There is also a link top right on the guide page which will download a free PDF.

I read part of this and it is well constructed and not trying to sell you anything or say that there is only one way to develop spiritually.
If you have the time and interest its one of the best of its kind I have looked at, though I have not read beyond the first ten pages.

Chris

[AwakeInADream]

Hi Chris! Firstly, Dr David Hawkins was the coolest guy on the planet IMO. Great videos!

On another note, some of that Ascension stuff is pretty interesting too (a lot of discernment required though). I read a lot about it years ago but it was way over my head at the time. Here's a book I've read on Ascension that is kind of hard to get hold of (for free): 'The Complete Ascension Manual' by Joshua David Stone:
http://awakenvideo.org/pdf/Inner%20S...n%20Manual.pdf

Here are a load more hard to find free books A-Z by author:http://awakenvideo.org/pdf/Inner%20Sanctum/

I stumbled across this rather hidden place whilst searching Google for 'filetype: pdf', and there seems to be a lot of very good books there(and bad), but also lots of author's I've never heard of before.(No David Hawkins though)

Chris. Will you let me know if you see any real gems in these directories that I absolutely must read?
(I've downloaded 5 years worth of reading material already)

Here's a good one. Itzhak Bentov: Stalking The Wild Pendulum

http://awakenvideo.org/pdf/Inner%20S...sciousness.pdf

Cheers Awake

P.S. Thanks Eram! I'm going to be reading through this little book from Byron Katie's site too, it looks quite good!: http://www.thework.com/downloads/lit...English_LB.pdf

[greybeard]

Hi AwakeInADream
Happy you are getting so much from the thread.
Dr Hawkins sure had some sense of humour yet a very in depth teaching.
I will have a look at the links you thoughtfully shared.
I dont read much now.
The energy of enlightenment is contained in books by those who are,, that's just a figure of speech--
A joke is They held a conference for enlightened people but no-body turned up.


Please keep contributing here, every post helps raise collective consciousness.
Every word thought and deed that is kind, positive, up lifting is benefiting the collective.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
Thanks
Chris

[Rich]

Complete text of I AM THAT by Nisaragadatta.
Thanks to tim for link.

[greybeard]

The biggest obstacle to enlightenment is the thought “I am the doer” so said Ramesh Balsekar the Advaita Sage.
He was a translator for Nasargadatta who told him to go and teach.

Its very subtle.
Perhaps you feel that you are being kind to others but there is nothing coming back.
That means you have a subtle agenda to get recognition.
Its short of unconditional love, which just is—it happens with no conditions whatsoever
Ramana would suggest “Who is it that wants recognition? Find what it is that requires respect, recognition etc.”

Nasargadatta said that until you are enlightened there is always an agenda.
Do gooders have an agenda but at least its a positive act.

Literally things happen and we claim authorship.

The Bagahvad Gita says

Events happen
Deeds are done
There is no doer there of

We are the witness observer yet there is a state beyond that--Awareness

Awareness is non volitional it happens all by itself.
Awareness does not need anything to be aware of, it is Self aware.


Chris

[markpierre]

God I love this thread. The world's all-time most tenacious. It ends when everyone wakes up
and can't talk about what just happened to them.

[greybeard]

Posted by markpierre (here)
God I love this thread. The world's all-time most tenacious. It ends when everyone wakes up
and can't talk about what just happened to them.

May that be soon im about out of concepts--smiling.
However here is another one or two.

At birth begins God waking some up.

God gave you an ego, let Him remove it.

If you think God does not know what your going to do next, think again.

We make plans and God laughs.

Thanks for being you Mark I love your direct, no nonsense attitude.

Chris

[markpierre]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by markpierre (here)
God I love this thread. The world's all-time most tenacious. It ends when everyone wakes up
and can't talk about what just happened to them.

May that be soon im about out of concepts--smiling.
However here is another one or two.

At birth begins God waking some up.

God gave you an ego, let Him remove it.

If you think God does not know what your going to do next, think again.

We make plans and God laughs.

Thanks for being you Mark I love your direct, no nonsense attitude.

Chris

Thanks Chris. I loved those comments. God hits us on the back of the head with a shovel until we go kind of senseless.
Then He slips into bed with us.

I'm just gonna sit here and look at you.

[Chester]

Is not non duality an extreme of a duality? A duality of a.) non duality and b.) everything else?

I mean, let's be honest here... Before the "I" arises.... then after the "I" and the world has arisen.

YET! "gno"ing that nothing is the absolute everything puts that lovely ego thing on the back burner a bit, yes?

But also then allows that fictitious "I" to jump into the deep waters of life with courage, gusto, wild abandon, risk and lots, lots more.

I mean, if one day you "wake up" and see there is a world... why not at least enjoy it?

Back to Tim Freke again - Its "both / and" not "either / or" for justthisone"man"... but admittedly, this view is a view of already swimming in the deep end. Yet, But, And, more words... more is less?

Thus less is more? I think I'll shut up now... hahaha (timer starts).





EDIT and ADDED:

You know these comments are simply meant to stir the pot - not meant maliciously

[greybeard]

You dont have a malicious bone in your body Chester.
Its all levels and each level is true for the level a person is at----as long as one doesn’t think this is it.
Tim Freke is probably in what is called non abiding enlightenment.
Adyashanti was there for a while---about seven years later the full abiding enlightenment happened.
His story is on the end of the spontaneous awakening talks Try pirate bay.
God is form, formless, both and neither.
Hawkins addresses the various levels.
From a higher perspective enlightenment is kindergarten.
You are safe with Ramana or Nasargadatta teachings of course.
Nasargadatta says "Ask where you were before birth of this incarnation."
Ramana --Hawkins-- Adyashanti et all are clear--self/me is the illusion---only one consciousness.

Regards to you my friend
Chris

[greybeard]

Tim perhaps you would like to contribute re Chester's valid question.

Chris

[Chester]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Tim perhaps you would like to contribute re Chester's valid question.

Chris

WoW! You suggest "Tim" is a member here... but if he is, odds are that he is only a lurking member because I would spot him through his words in a heartbeat.

Timmy??? You there?

[greybeard]

Hi Chester not Tim Freke
Here you go Chester
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...of-what-occurs...

[Eram]

Posted by justoneman (here)
Is not non duality an extreme of a duality? A duality of a.) non duality and b.) everything else?

I mean, let's be honest here... Before the "I" arises.... then after the "I" and the world has arisen.

YET! "gno"ing that nothing is the absolute everything puts that lovely ego thing on the back burner a bit, yes?

But also then allows that fictitious "I" to jump into the deep waters of life with courage, gusto, wild abandon, risk and lots, lots more.

I mean, if one day you "wake up" and see there is a world... why not at least enjoy it?

Back to Tim Freke again - Its "both / and" not "either / or" for justthisoneclown... but admittedly, this view is a view of already swimming in the deep end. Yet, But, And, more words... more is less?

Thus less is more? I think I'll shut up now... hahaha (timer starts).





EDIT and ADDED:

You know these comments are simply meant to stir the pot - not meant maliciously

Do you mean non duality as in ... unity?

I would say that it is nothing like extreme duality.
It is the end of something where after the clarity and bliss begins that was always there, but was clouded by the suffering that arises from judging, resisting, pulling and pushing, which are all features of duality thinking.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Tim Freke is probably in what is called non abiding enlightenment.
Adyashanti was there for a while---about seven years later the full abiding enlightenment happened.

Hi there Chris. I've never heard of "non abiding enlightenment" before so I looked it up. Couldn't find that exact term, but did find "non abiding awakening", is that what you're referring to by chance?
http://www.youaretrulyloved.com/enli...ng-awakenings/

[greybeard]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Tim Freke is probably in what is called non abiding enlightenment.
Adyashanti was there for a while---about seven years later the full abiding enlightenment happened.

Hi there Chris. I've never heard of "non abiding enlightenment" before so I looked it up. Couldn't find that exact term, but did find "non abiding awakening", is that what you're referring to by chance?
http://www.youaretrulyloved.com/enli...ng-awakenings/

Yes. Thats a good find Fred
You will have noticed that the Adyashanti talk "The end of your world" is mentioned and liked at the end of that page.
It can be bought there or found on Pirate bay.
Adyashanti is the only teacher I have heard use that phrase.
It makes sense.
Many have a brief experience of enlightenment and that is ok too.
Regards Chris

[Shadowman]

Posted by justoneman (here)
Is not non duality an extreme of a duality? A duality of a.) non duality and b.) everything else?

I mean, let's be honest here... Before the "I" arises.... then after the "I" and the world has arisen.

YET! "gno"ing that nothing is the absolute everything puts that lovely ego thing on the back burner a bit, yes?

But also then allows that fictitious "I" to jump into the deep waters of life with courage, gusto, wild abandon, risk and lots, lots more.

I mean, if one day you "wake up" and see there is a world... why not at least enjoy it?

Back to Tim Freke again - Its "both / and" not "either / or" for justthisoneclown... but admittedly, this view is a view of already swimming in the deep end. Yet, But, And, more words... more is less?

Thus less is more? I think I'll shut up now... hahaha (timer starts).

EDIT and ADDED:

You know these comments are simply meant to stir the pot - not meant maliciously

Hi Chester,

Is not non duality an extreme of a duality? A duality of a.) non duality and b.) everything else?

This is sophistry. Superficially it may appear reasonable, but in actuality it is not. Attempting to apply concepts to the non dual state ie the Self/ God/ All that is/ Nirvana/ Tathagata is inappropriate. It is like saying a rainbow (a metaphor for a transient illusion) is the opposite of light (a metaphor for abiding reality). The rainbow is an unreal appearance dependent upon the real light. But it is still an illusion.

The Self is entirely beyond all concepts, beyond all descriptions and can only be truly known by experience ie gnosis ;-). However, here experience does not mean a subjective experience in the mind, so a more appropriate term is realization.

Hypothetical assertions, philosophical or metaphysical discussions and theological debates may stimulate the intellect, but they do not bring Self or God realization. On the contrary, all subjective thoughts perpetuate the matrix commonly known as the ego, which is why I often emphasize silence as both the way and the goal, even so far as my choice of avatar (from the cover of The Power of Silence, by Carlos Castaneda)...

My response to Bill's floccinaucinihilipilification concerning solipsism in the thread below is also relevant, in particular Seng-Ts'an's quotes from the Hsin Hsin Ming ;

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post686080

Be still and know that I am God. - Psalm 46:10

The more you talk about it, the more you think about it, the further you are from it - Seng-Ts'an

To seek Mind (here the buddhist term Mind with a capital M is synonymous with the Self) with the (discriminating) mind (ie the intellect/ego) is the greatest of all mistakes. - Seng-Ts'an

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UNfS9Ywb2Cc

I mean, let's be honest here... Before the "I" arises.... then after the "I" and the world has arisen.

The subject and object ie duality are appearances only. They do not actually arise. It is like your waking and dreaming states. Both the subjective observer and the observed environment appear to arise together. But they do not in deep sleep. That in which they appear, and which is present in all three states is eternal and real. Sat, or Being, or Awareness is often confused with mind consciousness.

I mean, if one day you "wake up" and see there is a world... why not at least enjoy it?

As long as there is still an individual subjective observer, an observed world, and the act of observing, duality and the veiling power of Maya or illusion still hold sway, and you have not awakened in the context used by the awakened One(s).

Chris has linked my thread above for those who seek realization above all else. My style is direct, simple and some may say blunt. Just like the techniques which most appealed to me, ie zazen, vipassana and vichara. It is not for everyone. Ultimately awakening is your own choice, but you may end up sacrificing every thing to gain everything...

In Lak’ech / With Love
tim