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Thread: Enlightenment and related matters.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    My one time best friend is a 25+ year AA survivor (little joke). When we became friends he took me to different 12 Step groups. None of which resonated with me. Many stories included abuse. I had not been or administered abuse. Others kept repeating the same drama story over and over. I was able to complete and move on quickly. After several years he attended the Landmark Forum and asked me as his guest. I immediately signed up and participated at Landmark for 5 years. A couple I met at Landmark offered me a copy of Tony de Mello’s lecture. I listened to it until I could recreate parts of it. Later I listened to The Power of Now CD. Listening to The Power of Now was like listening to the thoughts in my own head. After a significant financial success I bought several educational programs in the hopes of more financial success. I eventually discovered that I do not possess the ruthlessness necessary to make those programs successful. It did educate me to the point where I knew that the financial new was a lie. I began to search for a more reliable news source. The more I searched the more I discovered the extent of the deception. The only source of knowledge I have discovered that is not contaminated is mathematics. Science, Language, Religion, Government, Health, Finance are all mired in extensive deception. Very freighting and depressing stuff and so unnecessary.

    The cure for all this deception is; “Awareness, Awareness, Awareness”. Or as I put it Wake-Up, Grow-UP, and dare to say no!

    The problem remains, that there are persons among us who fail to pursue personal growth and consequently use their immature comprehension of themselves and others as justification for atrocities on themselves and others. Many of these underdeveloped persons are promoted to positions of responsibility and power, for their ability to produce results. Also the culture we live in seems to praise and admire these underdeveloped individuals. The observation of witch occures like mass insanity.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Chris, great Tread!,

    Tonight, I was surfing the web and I came up accidentaly to Ekhart Tolle with a presentation on the "ego". The video was produced May 2010. I thought that people would appreciate viewing.



    All my blessings.

    Deega

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Great relevant video Deega
    You sure brought home the Bacon
    Thank you very much.
    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Great relevant video Deega
    You sure brought home the Bacon
    Thank you very much.
    Chris
    Thanks GreyBeard, all my pleasure,

    I loved the expression, and glad to have added a piece of the continuing puzzle "ego".

    All my blessings.

    Deega

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Causality is the belief of the ego.
    It likes to think that it is the doer, that is just not so.
    We are born with a certain potential and we are the perfect individual person from moment to moment.
    The criminal is the perfect criminal, it may be in his potential to change, society may create an environment where change is possible and beneficial for the criminal to become a credit to himself and society, but if it is not within his potential nothing will make him change, he will just get clever at avoiding the consequences of his actions.
    Every thing and everyone is acting within the field of their potential.
    I may want to be a champion tennis player but if I am five foot tall that is not going to happen in-spite of my dedication practice and desire.
    There will be many things that I can achieve within my potential of course.
    I may wish to change a person or the world with the best intention but that will not happen unless the person has the potential and the desire to change, thats free will.
    Being positive I believe there is real potential now for a changed world. If enough of us want this, it improves the potential for it to happen., hence the new signature.
    Regards Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    {this is an edited repost of a post I made on PA1 in 2008, I wanted to repost it as it is an ego thing - lol}

    There is a nice definition here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_materialism

    My definition is: the treatment of your spiritual gifts/abilities as possessions, potentially with glamorous or awe inspiring qualities, or as objects that can provide status, or means of feeding the ego through recognition.

    This is an error I make all the time. I wish I didn't. These days when I make errors, I get some kind of karmic backlash or "catalyst" condition that helps me realise fast (same day, same hour, sometimes same minute!) what is going on.

    I wish I were perfect, but I am not. I sometimes like to think I am wiser than I am. This can make me sound condescending or arrogant. I don't think I am, but an error is an error - and when I do it here it really ticks people off. I might even be doing it now.

    As an incarnated human wanderer, I landed with a complete set of baggage, replete with all the neat spiritual tools and gizmo's, but like lots of us, I lost or forgot the frikkin' instructions. Worse still I seem to have acquired an ego that paints a picture of myself to myself - and which actually leaks out as I relate to others. This ego, gets proud - especially when I work out how to use some of the tools in my kitbag that I forgot how to operate before. It likes to sneak in demonstrations and wow the audience, but that is so bad. It's like eating cake when you know you should be fasting.

    So anyway, that ego frequently gets me into all sorts of trouble and I remember a past incident when I was lead into a bit of a spiritual materialism trap. As it seems to be now, Karma was swift in the application of corrective measures. A pain manifested in my throat that made it difficult to keep talking. I could sense something was up so I asked "myself" internally what the problem was, and was rather humbled to get the answer along the lines of "your ego is the problem". How embarrassing. Well I already knew where I had gone wrong - that is in the nature of eating cake when you shouldn't right? So I decided to fess up and told the person I was talking to, and was rather humbled with his reply "We all have egos mate".

    So to recap, elements of my conversation, ego driven, had been spiritually materialistic - resulting in a spiritual kung-fu chop to the throat. Figured out what was wrong. Stopped it. Pain was gone next day. Hooray!

    I am sorry that I do this sometimes. I think I have forgiven myself but I can't promise it won't happen again, but I will try.
    Those of the positive polarity are of service when by action or thought or even intention, another entity or the self is freer to seek his or her own path than before the intended service was performed. --L/Leema

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Thank you John for sharing.
    Everything we do has consequences thats not the same thing as making something happen.
    When we seem to make something happen it appears that we have control of outcome, though the out come really is dependent on circumstances and our potential.

    The law of Karma is quite different.
    A murder is committed the perpetrator will at some point in time suffer the consequences in direct proportion to what he or she has done.

    However time being the consequences may be that he or she appears to get away with it.
    The deed might not be detected as murder. Somebody else, an innocent may be charged with it, they might be found guilty or not as the case might be.
    The actual murderer may be charged with it and be found guilty or not.

    It can be seen from all that there is no actual cause and effect as there is no guarantee what will happen when action is taken.

    Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    I was watching this video and thought of this thread
    Enjoy

    Dr. George Steinfeld talks to Alan Seinfeld about Cognition and Perception and New Realities
    Formerly Known as Aztar
    Spectrum Radio Network co-Host

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Aztar
    Thanks very much for the video which I am downloading to watch later.
    Regards Chris
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    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    My reply to this post needs to be put onto a context. I have extensive NLP-training, experience with hypnosis, therapy and coaching - 20 years. the question of Ego often pops up around me and I share with you my experiences. There is really no such creation as the "Ego". We do have a conscious and unconscious mind however. Human psychic development will always proceed from a state of only conscious awareness, towards awareness and cooperation between the conscious and the unconscious minds. This will lead to the inclusion of the higher self into a triad of levels of consciousness acting together with each other in a conscious understanding of each identity and purpose.

    "Ego" - if we must use that word - has to be the state of consciousness whereby the conscious mind perceives itself as being the boss of living and therefore strives to get as much control over the environment as possible. Being alone, like on an island, there is little room for altruistic behavior. Therefore ego serves itself - even at the expense of others.

    Ego - is uninformed of its true identity and purpose in life - to listen to and cooperate with the unconscious mind to gain direction in life and work together towards a common goal - development.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    thanks for sharing Norwaymike.
    yes I was a N.L.P and Hypnotherapy practitioner, before I retired, also.
    The founders of N.L.P. stated in their first book Frogs into Princes. "We don't necessarily tell you what is true we tell you what works" laughing.
    Hence the title of this thread and much of the content is about transcending an illusion a mere thought but a very powerful one.
    Regards Chris.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Aztar,
    Excellent video

    “Trauma comes and trauma goes, but what are you going to do about it?” – Paul Simon

    The part that I think most people are having trouble with is “challenging their beliefs”. Recognizing that any thought or belief is an invention of the mind and a willingness to throw it out, like a bad idea. To use Christianity as a reference this is what I think John the Baptist was referring to when he invited people to repent. My understanding of repent is to abandon an old belief system or thought that has never or is no longer working. I spent 6 months to a year throwing out every thought/belief I had. After a while I found it like quicksand and decided to incorporate some foundation to build on, always knowing that I could always throw out anything that did not work at a future point.

    Prior to seeing this video I had considered the possibility that challenging people’s beliefs was a violent act. However I had never herd it expressed clearly and unequivocally as in this video.

    The part I am willing to examine/embrace is this concept of taking on others transgressions, as a means of allowing them to heal and overcome poor choices. I require additional evidence of its validity.

    The system the Illuminati has put in place gives people choices which they are ill prepared to make or should I say preprogrammed to make. Financial ruin or concentration camp guard, choose! Financial ruin or Fascist bully, chose! The monetary system we have imposed on ourselves is truly manipulative and destructive. Hopefully we will have the wisdom to throw it out like a bad idea.

    end
    Last edited by Thinker; 23rd July 2010 at 19:05.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    greybeard,
    I’m going to challenge your beliefs and hope you will accept this violence upon your thoughts in the spirit in which it is intended.

    With respect to "karma" you said; “…the perpetrator will at some point in time suffer the consequences…”

    I don’t subscribe to the notion of karma occurring over time. I see this as one of the greatest misinterpretations of karma and this interpretation has done a lot of harm in the past 3000 years. The example I like to use to demonstrate my observation is O.J. Simpson. Prior to the murders he was not a particularly intelligent man but he was intelligible. When I heard an interview of the man after the trial in LA, he sounded as if he had completely lost his mind. I conclude that he drove himself insane up until the murder and after committing the act his insanity was traumatically indelibly etched in his mind. No one need watch and wait for karma to be revealed at some point in time, one only need look with sufficient wisdom to see that karma is timeless. This example can also serve to illustrate the timelessness that some spiritual teachers point to.

    I believe that all our actions are 100% consistent with our thoughts and beliefs. To commit murder we must first believe / think that murder can solve our problems. To believe murder will solve our problems we must become insane.

    “Trauma comes and trauma goes, but what are you going to do about it?” – Paul Simon

    end
    Last edited by Thinker; 23rd July 2010 at 18:43.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Thinker
    You are welcome sometimes it a bit like talking to my self and I am really happy to see the activity here now with splendid contributions, yours included.
    There are may definitions of Karma one simply means action.
    In the context I used it, I meant that no one gets away with anything. Judgment is mine sayest the Lord.
    Bit by bit I am letting go of all belief systems, including the concept of Karma.
    Yes it all timeless and Karma can be instant.
    Seems that everything happens in the formless, time less, then it manifests here.
    Because we live in duality at the moment this beyond our subjective understanding.
    Regards Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Thinker (here)
    To use Christianity as a reference this is what I think John the Baptist was referring to when he invited people to repent. My understanding of repent is to abandon an old belief system or thought that has never or is no longer working.
    When they said REPENT REPENT - I wonder what they meant - L. Cohen


    if there is a righteous way of living

    then repentance is the remorse for not living righteously

    repentance is an opening for God to intervene and set one straight again


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    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    When they said REPENT REPENT - I wonder what they meant - L. Cohen


    if there is a righteous way of living

    then repentance is the remorse for not living righteously

    repentance is an opening for God to intervene and set one straight again

    I don't know about remorse in this context... (If you declare you are a failure, then it must be true. Why are you declaring it?)

    For God to intervene we must have an opening. Throwing out an old belief creates the opening. Perhaps more accurately; considering the possibility our beliefs are not working is the opening.

    end

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Hi Thinker
    You are welcome sometimes it a bit like talking to my self and I am really happy to see the activity here now with splendid contributions, yours included.
    There are may definitions of Karma one simply means action.
    In the context I used it, I meant that no one gets away with anything. Judgment is mine sayest the Lord.
    Bit by bit I am letting go of all belief systems, including the concept of Karma.
    Yes it all timeless and Karma can be instant.
    Seems that everything happens in the formless, time less, then it manifests here.
    Because we live in duality at the moment this beyond our subjective understanding.
    Regards Chris
    You said; "...Karma can be instant."

    I'm saying itís always instant, and the belief that it is not is perpetuating the practice of revenge, justice, retaliation, punishment, retribution, execution, divine intervention... When or if we ever abandon the belief that others need to pay, we may discover a new level of compassion.

    end

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Thinker (here)
    You said; "...Karma can be instant."

    I'm saying it’s always instant, and the belief that it is not is perpetuating the practice of revenge, justice, retaliation, punishment, retribution, execution, divine intervention... When or if we ever abandon the belief that others need to pay, we may discover a new level of compassion.

    end
    Of course there is compassion. Karma is not revenge. its what you sow you reap.
    You created it therefore it comes back to you.
    It has nothing to do with anyone else, revenge etc does not enter into, no one else is involved it is all down to you.
    I am sorry that people do not realize this.
    You are master of your own destiny.
    Regards Chris
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 23rd July 2010 at 22:36.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Humility is the great opener.
    God removes what we can not but we have to ask.
    C
    Namaste
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Of course there is compassion. Karma is not revenge. its what you sow you reap.
    You created it therefore it comes back to you.
    It has nothing to do with anyone else, revenge etc does not enter into, no one else is involved it is all down to you.
    I am sorry that people do not realize this.
    You are master of your own destiny.
    Regards Chris
    Chris
    Iím sorry Iím having so much difficulty conveying my idea.
    Iím suggesting there are two categories:
    1. Possessing a time component
      1. Revenge
      2. Justice
      3. Retaliation
      4. Punishment
      5. Retribution
      6. Execution
      7. As you sow so shall you reap
    2. Possessing no time component
      1. Karma

    Any use of Karma with a time component being a failure to distinguish the difference between Karma and group 1, unless you know another word which fits category 2 better.

    end

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