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    Serbia Avalon Member Beren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    It seems like long time ago something happen. Something of great importance and its ramifications still haunts. Regarding that ,I can not recall what,I do not remember.Neither do,here. I feel quite often as you Chris, observing things that keep on happening in my life and other people lives. Thoughts are creating in my mind that start to paint the picture for me where I am being told that all this is deliberately done for me in order to see,feel,live and most of all-learn.

    Can I change anything? I don`t know. Maybe all is prearranged without our knowledge in order to mirror our reactions ,intentions,motives on why we do everything. Will we learn anything . Like endless triggers for our souls... As more time passes by I feel the fire in my heart and not just a fire ; an energy glowing and steaming inside of me...A thing that is telling me how I feel...and I feel more drawn to Creator and Christ . The more this racket goes on the more I hear that tiny voice ...Voice that was there when universe was being created...
    Love, love and see what happens!

    http://www.fromforgottenworld.com

    :welcome:

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    It does my heart good to see you both posting my friends (RedeZra and Beren)
    Voices in harmony saying virtually the same thing in unique ways.
    Yet no specialness is claimed, that is for the ego to do.
    God is to be found within and everywhere through humility, devotion to Truth, respect for others and reverence and surrender to the will of God.
    When our time comes to depart his world, will all our knowledge of earthly matters serve us well?
    Doubt it.

    Chris
    Namaste
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    So who am I?
    Or more precisely what am I?
    All I know for sure is that I exist and in essence have not changed.
    Opinions appreciated.

    Chris
    Hey Chris, great question! My current understanding is that "we are gods in the making".
    And No, I'm not kidding or trying to be funny here...

    Love and Light,

    Dan
    Unity Consciousness
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    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hello Chris , since you mentioned it earlier, I thought I should also post my opinion .
    I must agree with Dan on this one , but only partially though .
    The only difference in my own understanding is that we are not gods - we are God .
    God is all that is and exists eternally , expressing itself through us and vice-versa.
    We are all the same, in essence , we have all departed from perfection to evolve and gain knowledge, understand and attain the ultimate perfection from which we are created and thus exist.
    What you suggest is " all you know " - that you exist and in essence have not changed is priceless knowledge if you truly understand it as you state it ! You have always existed and never changed, and that is all because of the absence of time, in essence. We must fully understand the illusion of time and matter in which we currently develop - it is , in my point of view , one of the conditions needed for humanity to continue its journey.

    Namaste,
    Rares
    It is all, just a matter of perspective.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Perplex (here)
    Hello Chris , since you mentioned it earlier, I thought I should also post my opinion .
    I must agree with Dan on this one , but only partially though .
    The only difference in my own understanding is that we are not gods - we are God .
    God is all that is and exists eternally , expressing itself through us and vice-versa.
    We are all the same, in essence , we have all departed from perfection to evolve and gain knowledge, understand and attain the ultimate perfection from which we are created and thus exist.
    What you suggest is " all you know " - that you exist and in essence have not changed is priceless knowledge if you truly understand it as you state it ! You have always existed and never changed, and that is all because of the absence of time, in essence. We must fully understand the illusion of time and matter in which we currently develop - it is , in my point of view , one of the conditions needed for humanity to continue its journey.

    Namaste,
    Rares
    Yes Perplex I understand it as I stated it.
    Having read books by Rmana, Nasargadatta, Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins I realized the truth that I am unchanged.
    I am not enlightened but one dosent have to be to know the fundemental truth. That which looks through the eyes is unchanged.
    Its a short step to believe the mystics when they say that it is the same consciousness looking through all these eyes.
    A short step to wonder not where I go after death but where was I long before even the universe existed.
    I believe Mystics when they say "I am the totality all of it"
    Mystics live in the formless, non-duality, timeless nonlinear.
    Yes we are God in the making singular not plural.
    Thanks Perplex.
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 29th April 2010 at 09:03.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Yes Perplex I understand it as I stated it.
    Having read books by Rmana, Nasargadatta, Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins I realized the truth that I am unchanged.
    I am not enlightened but one dosent have to be to know the fundemental truth. That which looks through the eyes is unchanged.
    Its a short step to believe the mystics when they say that it is the same consciousness looking through all these eyes.
    A short step to wonder not where I go after death but where was I long before even the universe existed.
    I believe Mystics when they say "I am the totality all of it"
    Mystics live in the formless, non-duality, timeless nonlinear.
    Yes we are God in the making singular not plural.
    Thanks Perplex.
    Chris
    I agree with you Chris , we are not God...we are a bit of light in an ocean of light.......there are a billion galaxies..one galaxy is big enough...anyone who says they are god suffees from EGO

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Yes blue777
    There are paradoxes that only the mystic can understand.
    We are waves of the divine ocean.
    The ocean can say it is the wave but the wave cannot say it is the ocean.
    Even the mystics acknowledge and revere God.
    Seems there is a step down principal of the Power of God.
    Ultimately only God is.
    That became the God of creation, The Male and Female aspects, the Godhead the Trinity, all the way down to where we are, down to the microbe.
    We are in kindergarten, play school, we have a long way to go, to evolve back to the fullness of what in essence we are allready.

    Co creator I wouldnt want to be.
    The ego co created the present illusion we are in.
    In order for us to evolve the next stage is dissolution of the ego.
    The moment we are aware that there is an ego and whilst we are responsible for it it is not what we are, the ego begins to loose its hold over us.

    More input appreciated.
    Chris
    Namaste
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Yes blue777
    There are paradoxes that only the mystic can understand.
    We are waves of the divine ocean.
    The ocean can say it is the wave but the wave cannot say it is the ocean.
    Even the mystics acknowledge and revere God.
    Seems there is a step down principal of the Power of God.
    Ultimately only God is.
    That became the God of creation, The Male and Female aspects, the Godhead the Trinity, all the way down to where we are, down to the microbe.
    We are in kindergarten, play school, we have a long way to go, to evolve back to the fullness of what in essence we are allready.

    Co creator I wouldnt want to be.
    The ego co created the present illusion we are in.
    In order for us to evolve the next stage is dissolution of the ego.
    The moment we are aware that there is an ego and whilst we are responsible for it it is not what we are, the ego begins to loose its hold over us.

    More input appreciated.
    Chris
    Namaste
    hello chris, here goes,
    to discuss the EGO..SELF which creates pride, vanity selfishness greed arrogance , malevolence vanity , is difficult as we all suffer from some of these traits , though we do not want to admit it(vanity) etc..therefore the only way to transcend the EGO IS BY SUFFERING......this negates .a lot of the spiritual , emotional , intellectual and metaphysical NEGATIVE thought patterns ...of unreality , hate, falsehood , disordered reason
    lol
    hope thats enough
    lol
    blue

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    oh, this is so good, i love all this kind of talk, so invigorating. i am still not absolutely sure on the ego subject, is it that the ego is the self serving apsect of the being, and if out of balance, then can cause problems? and about enlightenment, if one learns about a subject, and masters it, or when one learns a thruth, as if to say " before i was in the dark, now i know, i can see clearly, i am in the light" then one has become enlightend in that area? i am not sure what god is, maybe god is another word for life, maybe god is everything in existence combined, but i know we all are a part of it, and it a part of us, i'm not even sure " part " is the right word. all i actually know, is that when i am aware, by that i mean when i wake in the morning, and i open my eyes, something is happening, birds tweet and i again wonder what the day will bring, or what i will bring the day. i beleive that everything is just as it should be, all is unfolding just as it should. much love to you all

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi folotheflo
    thanks for your input and questions.
    "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle was a huge benchmark for me and well worth reading.
    The link below leads to the original ego thread at Avalon, a lot of good contributions there that will help understanding on the ego.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18206

    Regards Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by blue777 (here)
    hello chris, here goes,
    to discuss the EGO..SELF which creates pride, vanity selfishness greed arrogance , malevolence vanity , is difficult as we all suffer from some of these traits , though we do not want to admit it(vanity) etc..therefore the only way to transcend the EGO IS BY SUFFERING......this negates .a lot of the spiritual , emotional , intellectual and metaphysical NEGATIVE thought patterns ...of unreality , hate, falsehood , disordered reason
    lol
    hope thats enough
    lol
    blue
    Thanks again Blue777
    It certainly helps to hit rockbottom.
    If everything in life was ok then who would look for answers?
    The belief in the me story is so powerful, its a love affair with me.
    The only way to remove this illusion is through surrender to God.
    As said my ego is work in progress but at least it is begun.
    There is great relief and freedom in not having to be right.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Thanks again Blue777
    It certainly helps to hit rockbottom.
    If everything in life was ok then who would look for answers?
    The belief in the me story is so powerful, its a love affair with me.
    The only way to remove this illusion is through surrender to God.
    As said my ego is work in progress but at least it is begun.
    There is great relief and freedom in not having to be right.

    Chris
    I understand what you are saying Chris........it is a learning cycle for all of us...unfortunately we have to learn through suffering
    lol

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by Perplex (here)
    Hello Chris , since you mentioned it earlier, I thought I should also post my opinion .
    I must agree with Dan on this one , but only partially though .
    The only difference in my own understanding is that we are not gods - we are God .
    God is all that is and exists eternally , expressing itself through us and vice-versa.
    We are all the same, in essence , we have all departed from perfection to evolve and gain knowledge, understand and attain the ultimate perfection from which we are created and thus exist.
    What you suggest is " all you know " - that you exist and in essence have not changed is priceless knowledge if you truly understand it as you state it ! You have always existed and never changed, and that is all because of the absence of time, in essence. We must fully understand the illusion of time and matter in which we currently develop - it is , in my point of view , one of the conditions needed for humanity to continue its journey.

    Namaste,
    Rares
    Rares, good point. However, while we are from our parent we still independent fragments from it and not yet IT.
    I know this might sound far-fetched, but think about it this way -- God/Source is inside its creation (universe, us, etc.) as well as outside from it. We as part of its creation "live" inside it, so all creation is actually fragments of the parent Source within IT.
    Now my understanding is that we as fragments, as we evolve and perfect our souls, the ultimate goal is to go back (return) and merge with Our Source Creator.
    It took me a while to understand this concept, and I was also shown in a vivid dream (vision?) which I will reveal at a later time on the Oasis forum, that this at least for me it's the case...

    Namaste, ~ Dan ~
    Unity Consciousness
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    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    I love this ego thread lol


    to think is to fabricate

    investing energy into inventions of mind and manipulations of matter


    we have invented a world but we did not invent the Earth

    we have invented an ego but we did not invent the Body


    perhaps we are too preoccupied with inventions to perceive Reality

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    Rares, good point. However, while we are from our parent we still independent fragments from it and not yet IT.
    I know this might sound far-fetched, but think about it this way -- God/Source is inside its creation (universe, us, etc.) as well as outside from it. We as part of its creation "live" inside it, so all creation is actually fragments of the parent Source within IT.
    Now my understanding is that we as fragments, as we evolve and perfect our souls, the ultimate goal is to go back (return) and merge with Our Source Creator.
    It took me a while to understand this concept, and I was also shown in a vivid dream (vision?) which I will reveal at a later time on the Oasis forum, that this at least for me it's the case...

    Namaste, ~ Dan ~


    Love,

    Kriya
    NEVER MIND HIS SILENCE~REMEMBER HE IS LISTENING
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    There are only minor differences in expression in the last few posts, we are in the main saying the same thing.
    We are on a journey, we are going home to know what we are already.
    Waves of the Divine ocean, still wet behind the ears Lol.
    Thinking is of the mind as RedeZra has said.
    We cant know who we are with more knowledge.
    One sculptor was asked how he created a beautiful woman from a block of marble.
    The answer, "I chip away all that is not feminine"
    In order to know that which you are already in essence, it is necessary to chip away all that is not your true reality.
    In reality you are God but you cant claim that until enlightenment occurs.
    The Indians call that state God-realization or Self realization --- same thing.
    Its an ego-less state - non-duality.
    So yes Dan -- the wave becomes the ocean -- we merge with God.
    The path is clearly set out by the mystics of yesterday and the present moment.
    Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins and others are here for us now - they point they way -- they know.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    the Ocean and the wave

    is a beautiful metaphor

    for God and the Individual


    what is a wave

    it is the Ocean

    undulating


    we make the distinction

    between the Ocean and the wave

    but there are none

    it is all Ocean

    also when there are no waves



    so also the Immanence of God is in Everything

    but there would be no play no drama no give and take

    if Everything knew Itself as God


    By Being All Powerful

    He hides and veils Himself from Himself


    so much so that at best

    an Individual thinks of itself as a particular or a wave of God

    but in Reality it is all God


    Only God Is

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    There are only minor differences in expression in the last few posts, we are in the main saying the same thing.
    We are on a journey, we are going home to know what we are already.
    Waves of the Divine ocean, still wet behind the ears Lol.

    So yes Dan -- the wave becomes the ocean -- we merge with God.

    Chris
    Namaste
    Dear Chris, I see the waves more like a collective manifestation of the creation itself.
    As for each soul (higher self) you can compare it more closely to a cup from the Divine ocean (consciousness), and each life that the soul/spirit experiences in 3D is like a drop in that cup.
    Let me share a bit more here about my understanding of the whole BIG picture.

    When the moment that is called "The Big Bang" happened, the name given sometimes to the first divisions/fragments of the Source Creator; first were created the highest realm of angels, also known as the Archangels. There dwells the Christ conscious energy.
    This division did not mean a decrease in essence of the Creator, but a proportional sharing of powers even if the entire fragments were not a whole any longer. Archangels have no "substance" they are just pure Love, expressed as Light energy.

    Eons later, together with the Creator, Archangels created the next level of angels; who were also light and had their proportionate part of the powers of the Creator.
    In the third stage of creation, the angelic beings, together with the Creator created life-forms to have potential; which means that now, the events could be manifested in what we perceive as material/physical. They have also created universes which, combined, make the cosmos with all its celestial bodies.

    Each universe has its own god that leads and co-creates with the Source everything that we call life and "non-life". We happen to be inside this universe which is like a nursery for our souls, experiencing and learning everything that is needed to know in order to evolve spiritually; and when the "time is right" to become gods of other universes in the continual process of creation which in fact is the Divine Source looking back at itself through a mirror of a multitude of individual consciousnesses.

    My apologies for this off-topic post...

    Namaste, ~ Dan ~

    Unity Consciousness
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    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Hi Dan
    wouldn't say its off topic as it is a follow on from the other posts.
    Im not sure that I go along with what you wrote, as its not in line with anything that I have read by a sage or in a holy book.
    There is a step down of power (Love) God has infinite power, archangels extremely powerful, angels less, humans even less.
    However everything that I have ever read says there is only one God --- formless -- who manifest creation.
    Everything ultimately comes from the formless.
    We in form, it could be said create, within our own potential. Nothing in form has the ultimate power to create itself.
    The moment you move away from formless you move into illusion-- you move away from God who is formless.

    The danger is that ego gets in the way-- Edge God Our.
    That started with the fallen angel Lucifer who was attention seeking and though he was the equal of his creator.
    Now we have lower astral realms full of those who deny the love of God and claim that they are gods.
    There are many theories on the go with just enough truth to make them believable but inevitably they are flawed, ego gets in there, the promise of specialness.
    The devil tempted Jesus with the offer of power, it was rightly refused.

    Im inclined to go with RedeZra

    Ramesh Balsakar wrote this


    God wrote the play
    God produced the play
    God directed the play
    God is every actor in the play.
    God witnessed the play.

    Ultimately only God is.

    There is the out breath of God (the big bang)
    Then the in breath, everything without exception comes back into God.---formless.
    Then the next out breath and so on.
    God is Generation Order Dissolution.

    Not saying im right but that is my current thoughts on it.

    All input welcome.

    With love and respect
    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment and related matters.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Hi Dan

    Ramesh Balsakar wrote this


    God wrote the play
    God produced the play
    God directed the play
    God is every actor in the play.
    God witnessed the play.

    Ultimately only God is.

    There is the out breath of God (the big bang)
    Then the in breath, everything without exception comes back into God.---formless.
    Then the next out breath and so on.
    God is Generation Order Dissolution.

    Not saying im right but that is my current thoughts on it.

    All input welcome.

    With love and respect
    Chris
    Chris, I'm not saying that am right either, and I respect your opinion or point of view.
    Ramesh Balsakar compares the "creation as a play", which is exactly what I described in my post.
    Godhead Source is not confined only in its creation, but the creation form (play) manifests within IT.
    Well, I will better let Mellen-Thomas Benedict explain this "play" for us all since he experience it in his NDE.

    Quote As I rode this stream of consciousness through the center of the galaxy, the stream was expanding in awesome fractal waves of energy. The super clusters of galaxies with all their ancient wisdom flew by. At first I thought I was going somewhere; actually traveling. But then I realized that, as the stream was expanding, my own consciousness was also expanding to take in everything in the Universe! All creation passed by me. It was an unimaginable wonder! I truly was a Wonder Child; a babe in Wonderland!

    At this point, I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond Infinity.

    I was in the Void.

    I was in pre-creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time/the First Word/the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness.

    When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind expanding thought, isn’t it?

    Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

    The ancients knew of this. They said God had periodically created new Universes by breathing out, and recreated other Universes by breathing in. These epochs were called Yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or Yugas creating and recreating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

    It took me years after I returned from my near-death experience to assimilate any words at all for the Void experience. I can tell you this now: the Void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The Void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is Absolute Consciousness; much more than even Universal Intelligence.

    The Void is the vacuum or nothingness between all physical manifestations. The SPACE between atoms and their components. Modern science has begun to study this space between everything. They call it Zero point. Whenever they try to measure it, their instruments go off the scale, or to infinity, so to speak. They have no way, as of yet, to measure infinity accurately. There is more of the 0 space in your own body and the Universe than anything else!

    What mystics call the Void is not a void. It is so full of energy, a different kind of energy that has created everything that we are. Everything since the Big Bang is vibration, from the first Word, which is the first vibration. The biblical “I am” really has a question mark after it. “I am—What am I?” So creation is God exploring God’s Self through every way imaginable, in an on¬going, infinite exploration through every one of us. I began to see during my near-death experience that everything that is, is the Self, literally, your Self, my Self. Everything is the great Self. That is why God knows even when a leaf falls. That is possible because wherever you are is the center of the universe. Wherever any atom is, that is the center of the universe. There is God in that, and God in the Void.
    Love and Light,

    Dan
    Unity Consciousness
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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