Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[Zampano]

I actually wanted to post a quote from a book I am currently reading, which is called "Journey of Souls" from Michael Newton.
The time has come for me to dig deeper into the soul issue. I think this quote goes good together with the topic of this thread.

Now, this thread became to big for me to follow I checked just a couple of times but now I came to the point where I think I really understand what this thread is about.
The time is right. Thank you greybeard and all the other people for your contribution.

In the last 2 months I had several discussions with friends, who studied philosophy, physics (including quantum physics) and maths and it allowed me to slowly connect the dots for me from all these various perspectives in connection to spiriutal teachings.
Which is really ecxiting I have to say. Doesnt mean it is the only truth.

Well the quote goes like this:

Asian Buddhist say enlightenment is seeing the absolute soul ego reflected in the relative human ego and acting through life.

Maybe you know these sentence already and its a basic for your knowledge-for me its new and very valueable. Maybe not and it will help you.

Until know enlightenment meant to me the spiritual event seeing, that everything is connected with each other, but somehow it never satisfied me 100%

[Zampano]

But there is a question which keeps me busy...I hope I will find the right words.

I read there are devas in nature and that they are shaping trees and flowers and all this beauty. Is nature the perfect model of gods will? It is no secret that when you go into nature, that you can "recharge" your batteries.
For me being in nature is to be in a (depends on whether it is park in a big city or a natural untouched forrest) place close to perfection.

Who are Devas? Advanced souls or another system? Why isnt it there a formula that creates that? Or is there?

I think that we are also able (with lots of dedication and training) to shape the smallest partical from wave into matter. What are your thoughts?

And what happens to a soul when it reaches the end of the incarnation cycle? Do they become creators on a higher scale?

My thoughts, oh my
Questions and more questions are coming...and its exciting

[greybeard]

Glad you are excited Zampano and you have every right to be.
Yes there are devas in nature -- its not my subject so I wont venture an opinion.
Everything is conscious --- Everything, atoms in movement -- God the Creator in every atom.

Only humans are aware of self in the way that they are.
Animals are too but at a different level of consciousness.

Leaving aside the word devas

When the cycle of karma on this earth is left behind for good the soul goes to the celestial realms to continue the journey home.
More adventures more experiences more growth.
This earth is like kindergarten as far as spiritual evolution goes.
In rare cases the soul completes the journey and is completely one with the Creator.
As I understand it there are level of enlightenment and therefore degrees/levels of spiritual energy.
The energy of the Creator is beyond measurement as it is infinite.

So yes we may have an ability to create that we dont have here, we are on average very limited as far as manifesting/creating goes.
An enlightened one has more ability than most though they can collapse the wave into matter.
There are quite a few stories of yogis in India who have done amazing things --- some frauds but some genuine.
Keep asking others may reply.
If I dont know I will say so.
Chris

[Zampano]

Thank you for responding to my questions

Yes, we are limited here in our lives on planet earth and it is probably not necessary for me to create things out of thin air...there are other more important things here to do and for the growing process.
But its interesting to talk about it

However these next stages where are we going to evolve...sooner or later...
we will probably not understand as soul in a human body on earth now
Step by step

[9eagle9]

When we can create out of thin air we run less of a risk being a slave to anyone. I'm not sure if there's anything more important. Creating out of thin air doesn't precisely mean material goods. If you're in the right place its probably more the creation of circumstances that otherwise would not be created. Then again the more you have the more good you can do.

[greybeard]

Being able to create/manifest goes hand in hand with spiritual integrity and the level of vibration.
To give some the power to create would be like giving a very young child a box of matches to play with.
We get these abilities when we are mature enough to use the ability for the highest good of self and others.

I agree this ability will free us but at the moment some would use it to enslave.

Chris

[Ernie Nemeth]

I'll add my two cents.

I have lost all material possessions to speak of in the last almost four years. House, savings, car, driver's license, proffessional license, etc. I have gone from being an average Joe to a borderline crimminal as the government of my country has redifined correct social behavior and recast all the "learned" modes of living from earlier years. I have not changed, but the rules have. Those changes has resulted in my becoming an outcast.

Having said that, and pushing my willful ego out of the way for a moment, the experience of losing everything has resulted in the revalueing of my priorities. I now value very little the things of this world. I don't care about sales, or product loyalty or petro-points cards or areo-plan miles. I do not fear the authority of government. I do not heed the fear-mongers. And I do not jump on the band wagon of the newest fad like global-warming, terrorists, investment strategies or current political wranglings.

The gift of poverty is subtle and sublime. It is overcast by ego-centric concerns that can leave the gift burried beneath the detritus of "trying to survive". Poverty is actually the forgotten abundance of selfhood stripped of selfish concerns and false beliefs. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter heaven because a rich man will be self-absorbed with maintaining his lofty status and confuse that with self-importance. To sum up: the poor man forgets he is in heaven while the rich man forgets he is in hell.

Love this thread, thanks Chris!

[greybeard]

Ernie you lift my heart.
Once a person seriously commits to the search for spiritual truth, life changes radically, basic needs are met.
There is a sense of freedom unknown before.

A story

Yogananda was giving a talk a Carnegie Hall New York
Some intuition told him to remove anything of value from his coat. He did.
When he came to get the coat which was a present from his students it had gone.
He was not pleased.
His friends seeing his displeasure said "Dont worry we will get you another"

"Its not that" he said

They left me with the responsibility of the hat and gloves.

All you said is so Ernie
We can have any material thing as long as we are not attached to it.
Some times we have to loose all before we get that.
Then slowly but surely, without wanting any thing, life improves materially.

We dont have a car but I have a free bus pass.
I dont have to park it, I dont have to insure it, I dont have to maintain it, I dont have to put diesel in it, I dont have to drive it -- the bus company does.

Aint life good!!!!!

Chris

Ps I have a gratitude prayer at night which keeps me on track.
I start with the moment I open my eyes and make my way through the whole day.
Its amazing what you can find in a day that is good and wholsome if you really look

At one point in my life I was really low -- as a child I nearly died twice.

Dad saw me sinking into dispair.

He said
"Count not your past misfortunes, of which you have had a few, but count your present blessings of which there are many."

His childhood was so bad he ran away from home age 15, lied about his age, joined the Royal Navy and was at the Battle of Jutland in HMS Hood 6 weeks later, and I though I had a raw deal --- Ha Ha

[greybeard]

Relationships


There is as saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”
How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.
The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.
There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.
Why?
Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.
This is why.
There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.
The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.
There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.
So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?
By allowing it to be, that’s how.
There is enormous power for change in allowing.
Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.
We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.
When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.
You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.
Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.
Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.
The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.
The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.
The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.
See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.
Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?
Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.
“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.
Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.
You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.
It’s a state of non-judgmental love.
The situation is as it is.
As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.
Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.
The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.
There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.
What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.
Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.
So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.
If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.
The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of uncondional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”
On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.
These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.
This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.
A stepping stone if you will.
At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.
All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.

[greybeard]

Consciousness is lowered by fear


Love raises it


The so called powers that be, benefit greatly from a fear ridden population.

As individual consciousness is raised it affects and benefits all.

One in the enlightened state lifts all greatly

The controllers fear a raised consciousness more than anything.

I had the thought that we may attribute to much potential to HARRP to create earth quakes etc and the overall ability of the so called controllers.

Im not saying HARRP chem trails and all the rest is ineffective but not as powerful as we are led to believe.

Volcanoes and all natural events were happening long before there were humans on the planet.

I can just see me arriving in heaven and saying HARRP sent me here.

Excuse me tying to make light of serious matters but in part I see the fear spreading, coupled with the illusion of power over us, as
a distraction from the raising of consciousness.

I can get sucked into watching too many videos with the end of the human race being spelled out when I should be spending time living life to the full and appreciating the gift of life here.

I do spend time every day thinking about the Creator but probably not enough.

The journey of the soul is a million times more important than anything else to my mind.
That has to be the priority for me.

Im not denying that it is important to be aware of what is out there, just a question of longterm priorities.

Where can I best spend my time?

Regards and respectful to all who search for truth of all kinds, there is a place for everything.

Chris

Namaste

[luciole]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Ernie you lift my heart.
Once a person seriously commits to the search for spiritual truth, life changes radically, basic needs are met.
There is a sense of freedom unknown before.

A story

Yogananda was giving a talk a Carnegie Hall New York
Some intuition told him to remove anything of value from his coat. He did.
When he came to get the coat which was a present from his students it had gone.
He was not pleased.
His friends seeing his displeasure said "Dont worry we will get you another"

"Its not that" he said

They left me with the responsibility of the hat and gloves.

All you said is so Ernie
We can have any material thing as long as we are not attached to it.
Some times we have to loose all before we get that.
Then slowly but surely, without wanting any thing, life improves materially.

We dont have a car but I have a free bus pass.
I dont have to park it, I dont have to insure it, I dont have to maintain it, I dont have to put diesel in it, I dont have to drive it -- the bus company does.

Aint life good!!!!!

Chris

Ps I have a gratitude prayer at night which keeps me on track.
I start with the moment I open my eyes and make my way through the whole day.
Its amazing what you can find in a day that is good and wholsome if you really look

At one point in my life I was really low -- as a child I nearly died twice.

Dad saw me sinking into dispair.

He said
"Count not your past misfortunes, of which you have had a few, but count your present blessings of which there are many."

His childhood was so bad he ran away from home age 15, lied about his age, joined the Royal Navy and was at the Battle of Jutland in HMS Hood 6 weeks later, and I though I had a raw deal --- Ha Ha

Thank you Grey Beard! Your stories, your wisdom, are very inspiring!

Yes, gratitude prayers are wonderfull, because, you realise how many times you were blessed in a day, and it sometimes has this magical feeling to it!
I once was in the middle of a severe depression and everything in my life seemed painted in black and grey.
I was having big financial problems, but I had internet, so I was spending time browsing on self help web sites and what not. And one day a phrase jumped into my eyes:
"count your blessings".
Every night enumerate what you have gratitude for in your day.

The first night, I found one thing only, but heck I was so low down that I decided to start again the next day. Four nights later my list had grown much much longer, and I found myself crying tears of joy, because my life was filled with miracles and beautifull people around me, but the pain was blinding me!

So yes count your blessings, miracles are not only for others!

Namaste Grey Beard

Life is great!!!

[greybeard]

Humans we are not!!!
We tend to forget that we are spirit --- consciousness having a human experience.

While we are here we are bound by the Cosmic law governing human experience.

In the words of Christ -- "Wear the world like a loose garment"

Why worry about 2012 and all that goes with this incarnation - we chose all the highlights of this embodiment.
Some challenging, some joyful, some difficult, some requiring courage, many rewarding moments.

In a fearless state enjoy the moment whatever it brings.

Chris
Namaste

[greybeard]

Thanks to Truth seeker Dan for this video.

Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GOTQSbEvxbU

[aranuk]

Wise words again Chris! I've read a lot of posts tonight on this thread. What else can I add?

Stan

[aranuk]

Dearest Chris, Can you explain something that I was told by a very reliable psychic friend about 13 yrs ago? She told me a lot of things which were indeed most relevant to me at the time and she said that her guide who she called "watcher" told her to tell me the name of my Higher Self or Extended Self which ever you prefer was called Aranuk. I was told afterwards in conversation with her when I asked why she said something so bewildering to me. She said that as far as she was concerned I had "unconsciously" wished for a name. I had never ever heard that a HS did indeed have a name. Like you Chris I have been meditating for many years since I was a boy and I am now in the same year as you are in age. I was under the impression that if you know something's name you have power over it. I know that "I" or "i" is both the same or shall I say part of the same individual spiritual entity and that part is also a smaller part of a larger something of Spirit. We are all part of the Creator Being I know. In a higher plane of existence when we have no physical body what do we call each entity in our telepathic state of being? In this life I am called Stan and in other incarnations I was called for example, Bert, Mable, Christine, Diana etc. So is it possible that we do indeed have a name that we behold in the higher planes to avoid confusion?

Namaste

Stan

[truthseekerdan]

posted by aranuk: So is it possible that we do indeed have a name that we behold in the higher planes to avoid confusion?

Hi Stan, welcome to Chris' thread.

Just wanted to give my perspective to your question. If you are referring to the "higher planes" as the spirit planes then there is no confusion, since in Oneness you would recognize "another you" (individuality) instantly without the need for a form or a name -- just pure consciousness.

Hope this helps.

Namaste ~ Dan

[Ernie Nemeth]

I have been taught that the naming of things is an agent of separation. To name something excludes it from totality. That is why, I believe, in my meditations I have been many times warned against naming the Source. To do so would sever the truth of unity and disrupt the focus of my intention, which is to merge with All. The naming of things does not change reality, as such. But it does change my relationship with the named. The named is no longer ineffable in the mind of the namer.

In one of my books I equate the naming of things with counting. To count is a function each of us does many times every day. We count the time, our money, the stars. We count our age, how many friends we have, how many places we've lived, etc. And as we count we focus on the unreal because there is only One, in fact. Counting and the naming of things are methods we employ to prove that we are alone, isolated and small (inconsequential).

Again, though, it matters not one moot. We are separate because we want to be. When it no longer serves us we will drop the charade. Until then, names, concepts, math, and the rest has its place. They serve to hold us hostage to our wilfull ignorance.

With each idol we place on our alters we slowly learn that none will ever satisfy. Eventually, and inevitably, we will clear our alters of all idols and invite the one true Guest into our hearts. Then names will no longer be of consequence.

Your heart and mine are one.

[greybeard]

Thanks Stan for your input.
Dan is correct.

Ernie what you say is exactly so.

There is a progression accompanied by- a raising of consciousness.

We live in a heavy density world and the body to cope with that, it is hard wired vis the nervous system to accommodate a fairly low level of spiritual vibration/energy.
As an example say that God is infinity as far as voltage goes, Archangels 50.000 volts - humans - 250 volts on average.
All the same energy (God) but varying degrees of it.
The highest vibration a human could stand on this planet with a modified system is say 1000 volts.
We literally modify the brain and body through spiritual endeavor to accept increasingly higher vibration.

Now here is the paradox -- Jesus said "Of my self I do nothing, it is the Father within who is the doer"
Ramesh Balsakar said " the biggest obstacle to spiritual progess is the thought that I am the doer"
"Events happen deeds are done but there is no doer there of"
He also said "God gave you an ego let Him remove it"
So you could say that your True Self gave you the ego and will help to remove it if that is your destiny for this incarnation.

Dr David Hawkins said " Nothing is causing anything to happen, everything is happening moment by moment as evolution of potential"

Me likes to take credit for doing.

There is no person, Parsons said.
Events just happen.
We witness the events.
Ultimately we are God.

This video might help, this is a trailer but the full film can be found via Google - might be on U tube or a torrent
I have watched the complete film but not sure were I downloaded it from it may be here on Avalon .
Well worth the effort of finding
"Who is driving the dream bus?"

Thanks to Double Helix full version on his link below = two posts down

Chris

[aranuk]

Many thanks Chris, Dan and Ernie. There are many wise people in this congregation isn't there? That should keep me on my toes!

Namaste

Stan

[DoubleHelix]

Posted by greybeard (here)


This video might help, this is a trailer but the full film can be found via Google - might be on U tube or a torrent
I have watched the complete film but not sure were I downloaded it from it may be here on Avalon .
Well worth the effort of finding
"Who is driving the dream bus?"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1AVQFWkfSls

I was quite intrigued to watch this! I managed to track down the full feature version, previously posted on Avalon a couple of months back

http://theavalonfiles.com/stream/Who...bus/index.html