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Thread: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

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    Wales Avalon Member KevBoh's Avatar
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    Default The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Hi All.

    I have Read and listened to work by Alex Jones for a few years now. We all in the Alternative circles I'm sure gets our news from numerous sources. Some more popular than others, like the Alex Jones Show, infowars.com, also Davidicke.com then you have Kerry Cassidy on Project Camelot, Simon Parkes, Bill Ryan etc. All the aforementioned I am aware of their Respective works.

    If I remember rightly, in one of Bill's latest newsletter, he emphasised, and quite rightly, that we have to listen to people like Alex Jones and David Icke. I can't help but feel there is something off about Alex Jones.

    I think that he is angry too much, really angry eyes. We will never take back the planet if we have anger, as it leads to hate, and the the great Master Yoda would say ''the dark side are they' and wrong he isn't. Lately, I can't seem to take Alex Jones seriously. There is too much commercialism to his programmes. He's selling these so called 'medicine' in a bottle, that is like an antibiotic, or does the job of an antibiotic. There is one video I have seen him drinking it (advertising it) as he was doing a segment live on camera. He seems to be in it for the money. I have also noticed, that he will talk about any ethnic or religious group, but he never mentions Jews or the Zionists, NEVER EVER. If we are to question everything in our quest for truth and enlightenment, we would be foolish not to question the sources that gives us information. I have done this, and frankly, Alex Jones doesn't seem genuine to me. Can anyone else feel this with him? or is it just me?

    Also, I would like to tell Bill Ryan, If he reads all the threads, and is reading this, I'm writing directly to you Bill. You said in a newsletter as I stated above to encourage us to listen to Alex and David respectively. I just wanted to tell you, that you should not undervalue your worth to us. You have earned your right in my opinion, and many others I'm sure, the right to be held in the same regard as these guys. I for one am very gratified with what you do, You inspire me more than Alex Jones ever will. I am very proud to be an Avalon member, and I'm sure many people agree with me, and without you, this would not be possible, I find you honest, genuine, humble, and a very nice man. People hold you in a higher regard than you might realize.

    Sorry for my English, being Welsh by mindset, translating from Welsh to English in my head as I type is challenging.


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    Canada Avalon Member Songmuze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Agreed - we need to check ourselves before blindly supporting anything anyone says. There is so much information to go through - So many people with new, strange and interesting ideas. Yet, we are all human, and can get emotional about the things we are passionate about - so, perhaps people like Alex Jones are simply being human by expressing themselves in a manner that comes off as angry. If it feels right, delve further - if not, put it aside and move on to the things that make you shine.
    "Stop acting so Small, You are the Universe in Ecstatic Motion."
    ~Rumi

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    imho in alex's case when you have a studio with staff to run then in this current timeframe you'll be forced to sell stuff. as per his approach - well, different people like different sauce. same applies to information i guess.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    I spent almost a year listening to Alex Jones when I first started awakening for the second time in my life. I finally just had to shut him off. Anger was all I ever heard from him but he did spew some truth. I know a lot of folks that began by listening to good ole Alex. I cannot get behind him at this point. There are a lot of folks that spew anger at what is happening, Hell I could say I am even one myself. I now have to stop and realize that anger goes nowhere except into more anger and that becomes very dangerous.

    I have seen and researched so many others that are saying that Alex is a CIA plant and his job is total disinfo. I have even seen and researched the same with David Icke. Never had or even heard the same for Bill and do not feel in my heart that would be the case. We all have to do our own research simply because if you don't then you are nothing more than a sheeple. Bill and Kerry began quit awhile ago and have awakened a lot of folks. There are so many that we listen to and do our own research and find some truth in what they say. Just a beginning to go go go. I to am a grateful member of this forum and have been here since 2012. Lots of things here that stir the brain pan and the given research links are wonderful. Go to and do for is what I say. Thank you

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by KevBoh (here)
    We will never take back the planet if we have anger, as it leads to hate
    I think that might be a bit of an over-generalisation. Anger is just as legitimate a form of expression as any other. Suppression of anger can lead to hate just as easily as its expression. Many would say we will never take back the planet if we *don't* have anger

    I think you're more ill at ease with his ranting delivery which is fair enough. I'm probably in the same category - I've almost stopped listening - but only because I've learned as much as I can from that source. He is who he is and on balance, I'd say a valuable asset to the alternative media universe. I discovered huge amounts about geopolitical affairs from listening to that programme and I never paid anything for it except maybe a miniscule subscription fee one year, so I'm not going knock him even though I may share some of your criticisms.

    The main reason I listened was that he often had extremely interesting and insightful guests on. I also quite liked the terrier-like enthusiasm with which he interviewed them, having to shut himself up every 5 minutes so the guest could get a word in ! LoL.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by KevBoh (here)
    frankly, Alex Jones doesn't seem genuine to me. Can anyone else feel this with him? or is it just me?

    Also, I would like to tell Bill Ryan ... I just wanted to tell you, that you should not undervalue your worth to us ...I find you honest, genuine, humble, and a very nice man. People hold you in a higher regard than you might realize
    Yes, KevBoh, I can feel it too. Like many I've listened to Jones on and off for years. He's had some great guests on. You know when I completely saw through him? During the height of the Occupy Wall Street movement and demonstrations back in '11. He pretty much proclaimed that movement and those people as being worthless, counterproductive. His words may even have verged on implying it was some kind of "OP" and against our interests.

    When I heard that, he was over for me. I went down there, I saw it and felt it and That movement, however flawed it was, was one of the most beautiful manifestations of collective energy and people and love I've ever seen. That's when I knew Jones couldn't really be with us.

    BTW, anger is not necessarily bad. We need to acknowledge it, it has its place, listen to it and allow it to be, safely. Then it can transform into something lighter.

    As for Bill Ryan, no he shouldn't undervalue what he means to us. I'm surprised he's still publicly supporting Jones at this point. I wish he would re-evaluate that stance but regardless, Bill is a unique individual. I would call him, though I don't know him personally, a balanced human being. May he stay well.
    Last edited by Caliban; 20th October 2015 at 00:00.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    matt drudge on alex........ pretty good...... this week

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Loved Alex years ago for his passion/ anger. I saw him first in "Waking Life." I still love the scene he does in that cartoon. He turned me on to questioning 9/11 and I got a friend that woke up to several things through AJ. I listened to him for years then I just stopped and didn't appreciate him as much.

    My friend says and I agree that he continues to serve his purpose and that is hitting us over the head with a sledge hammer and moving on to new people. His delivery is heavy but it does the job a significant amount of the time. He doesn't look back he just keeps doing what he's always done and he's pretty good at it.
    It's time to change this.

    Be cautious of placing oneself in a category it may serve to box you in and not even be correct.

    The quotes alone on peoples signatures are reason enough to be here.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    I dont think Alex Jones should be criticised for his anger. All emotions have their purposes. Anger is a useful emotion when it comes to bringing change. Would the glorious revolutions ever have been if not for the anger of the people? This is perhaps the one single important thing I would criticise the new age philosophy. Love is good, but hate and hence anger is not all 'bad' because it is not the opposite of love, it is fear.

    Accusing him of his possible Zionist allfiliation is another matter though.
    Last edited by syrwong; 20th October 2015 at 02:08.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Alex Jones has made a lot of people wake up and think. If you are not angry you must be missing something.

    There are things I don't like about him but they pail in comparison to what I do admire about him.

    He has passion and guts and that says a lot.........

    We need more like him...and that's my opinion.............
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by KevBoh (here)
    Hi All.

    I have Read and listened to work by Alex Jones for a few years now. We all in the Alternative circles I'm sure gets our news from numerous sources. Some more popular than others, like the Alex Jones Show, infowars.com, also Davidicke.com then you have Kerry Cassidy on Project Camelot, Simon Parkes, Bill Ryan etc. All the aforementioned I am aware of their Respective works.

    If I remember rightly, in one of Bill's latest newsletter, he emphasised, and quite rightly, that we have to listen to people like Alex Jones and David Icke. I can't help but feel there is something off about Alex Jones.

    I think that he is angry too much, really angry eyes. We will never take back the planet if we have anger, as it leads to hate, and the the great Master Yoda would say ''the dark side are they' and wrong he isn't. Lately, I can't seem to take Alex Jones seriously. There is too much commercialism to his programmes. He's selling these so called 'medicine' in a bottle, that is like an antibiotic, or does the job of an antibiotic. There is one video I have seen him drinking it (advertising it) as he was doing a segment live on camera. He seems to be in it for the money. I have also noticed, that he will talk about any ethnic or religious group, but he never mentions Jews or the Zionists, NEVER EVER. If we are to question everything in our quest for truth and enlightenment, we would be foolish not to question the sources that gives us information. I have done this, and frankly, Alex Jones doesn't seem genuine to me. Can anyone else feel this with him? or is it just me?

    Also, I would like to tell Bill Ryan, If he reads all the threads, and is reading this, I'm writing directly to you Bill. You said in a newsletter as I stated above to encourage us to listen to Alex and David respectively. I just wanted to tell you, that you should not undervalue your worth to us. You have earned your right in my opinion, and many others I'm sure, the right to be held in the same regard as these guys. I for one am very gratified with what you do, You inspire me more than Alex Jones ever will. I am very proud to be an Avalon member, and I'm sure many people agree with me, and without you, this would not be possible, I find you honest, genuine, humble, and a very nice man. People hold you in a higher regard than you might realize.

    Sorry for my English, being Welsh by mindset, translating from Welsh to English in my head as I type is challenging.

    Kev, I am originally from Chester, which is fairly close-by North Wales, it is a beautiful part of the country and imbued with great history and atmosphere - I particularly like Anglsey which is where the ancient Druids were forced to flee from the Romans, or so I was informed. Alex Jones certainly gets angry, and I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, he comes from a fairly simple opposing camp, he is a Christian American patriot who loves liberty. His commercial efforts are what funds his campaign, setting up an alternative media empire that can gain the credibility of all the CNN, Fox News, CBS e.t.c viewers who are used to that slick, affluent image of 'middle-America' takes funds. i personally have no problem with a guy making his living from his work, and profiting, we each have the right to make a living and profit by our skills - Alex Jones is no exception. As to him 'never mentioning Jews', this simply is not true, I have seen many news stories where Alex has critiqued Israel - but what is to be gained from vilifying only one group when there are several that dominate our world, that perpetuate the fiscal slavery of humanity? If you look through some of the archives on Infowars you will find Israel being also rebuked, he linked them with 9/11 at one point.
    I think what Bill is saying is that we should take our information from a variety of sources, and determine our own position - no one is saying you need to accept everything Alex Jones promotes, or be a slavish fan of his famous 'Ranting'.
    For me Alex Jones is a credible alternative, he at least makes the effort to present information that is not available on the mainstream conduits, the 'Drudge Report' is another one in the USA. David Icke certainly is an interesting voice in the U.K. I too think Bill Ryan is doing a fantastic job, and I have been an admirer for many years now. Alex Jones is OK in my book, but maybe not every day, and not for every story- he is a genuine alternative perspective, but take it all with grains of salt.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    My take on Alex is that his effect is disruptive and fear-engendering. I intuit he may have started out with a sincere outlook but now is formulaic. People who are afraid are feeding the bad guys.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Quote Posted by KevBoh (here)
    frankly, Alex Jones doesn't seem genuine to me. Can anyone else feel this with him? or is it just me?

    Also, I would like to tell Bill Ryan ... I just wanted to tell you, that you should not undervalue your worth to us ...I find you honest, genuine, humble, and a very nice man. People hold you in a higher regard than you might realize
    Yes, KevBoh, I can feel it too. Like many I've listened to Jones on and off for years. He's had some great guests on. You know when I completely saw through him? During the height of the Occupy Wall Street movement and demonstrations back in '11. He pretty much proclaimed that movement and those people as being worthless, counterproductive. His words may even have verged on implying it was some kind of "OP" and against our interests.

    When I heard that, he was over for me. I went down there, I saw it and felt it and That movement, however flawed it was, was one of the most beautiful manifestations of collective energy and people and love I've ever seen. That's when I knew Jones couldn't really be with us.

    BTW, anger is not necessarily bad. We need to acknowledge it, it has its place, listen to it and allow it to be, safely. Then it can transform into something lighter.

    As for Bill Ryan, no he shouldn't undervalue what he means to us. I'm surprised he's still publicly supporting Jones at this point. I wish he would re-evaluate that stance but regardless, Bill is a unique individual. I would call him, though I don't know him personally, a balanced human being. May he stay well.
    Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for sharing peace x

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    You need to see this from a different point of view ... maybe for us he is a bit off and his anger is too much ... but for the "sheeple" as some say ... he is the slap in the face they need to start waking up.

    You cant get the focus of the sleeping man with soft words and polite manners ... you need a loudmouth to get him interested and then he either starts to wake up or he says cant be bothered and goes back to bed.

    I think he isnt a planned agent because he spreads so much info out there. He might focus on specific topics and neglect avoid others ... but he has audience that is specifically oriented. He wants to make a living out of this and he should.

    He is one of the biggest source of news ... now how accurate they are ... its up to us personally to verify or deny.

    I am with Bill on this ... we need to listen to Alex Jones and David because they are sparks to move our interest in topics we will otherwise miss ignore.

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    I've had very similar thoughts KevBoh. Really appreciate the points you've made. I think the thing that gets me most about Alex, apart from the anger, is the insistence (seeming) that it's all one group of people's fault that that we're in this mess (if indeed we're in one) - i.e. it's the 'bad' guys fault. I stopped buying this some time ago, and I much prefer now to think of our collective experience as the product of where we are at, collectively, not a product of what 'they' do, at all. Nothing wrong with anger, for sure, but to be effective, it has to be controlled, and I'm not sure his. Could be wrong I suppose.

    Do I thing we're being controlled? Yes. How we're being controlled, I don't think really matters, as far as the big picture is concerned. I don't think there's any external way to stop it - it has be internal - every person has to, and will, decide what the best course is for themselves by acting on what they have fostered internally. But that's not to say people like Alex are not needed. I think they absolutely are, or surely they wouldn't be here!

    Alex and David certainly seem to serve a purpose. David was the first to flick the switch in my head - that made me realise there were dimensions of possibilities and 'realities', right here on earth, that I had barely thought possible. It was important information for me, but I think the important bit for me was what I did with the information, for my own, personal waking up (if indeed I've succeeded even one bit at that - my jury is out on it). The single most powerful thing I've ever done for myself, I think, was to decide to take responsibility for myself. Now I don't pay much attention, for very long, to viewpoints that seem to just point out the 'problems' in the world, as if that is they are the only problems we have. As far as I can see it WE are the problem!

    We could do with waking up a bit for sure, in terms of what we think is out there in the world, and what's happening in it, and if we did, perhaps it would be impossible to herd us around and deceive us in the ways that we seem to be being. But more than that I think, we could do with stopping blaming anyone else for our emotional states and paths in life and perhaps take control of them ourselves. I don't hear Alex or David Ike talking very much about that, so I've pretty much stopped listening.

    I still love listening to Bill, because he seems far, far less concerned with blaming anyone, and often uses his highly developed powers of deduction simply to angle in on what might really be going on in situations. I devour just about every interview he gives. They're fascinating, and I love his humility, his humor, and how he relates to his interviewees. His skills as an interviewer are undoubtedly world class in my book - I haven't seen anyone, in his field, who I enjoy more. Hope I don't sound like I'm gushing at you Bill, if you're reading. I'm sure you've had worse...

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by Apulu (here)
    I've had very similar thoughts KevBoh. Really appreciate the points you've made. I think the thing that gets me most about Alex, apart from the anger, is the insistence (seeming) that it's all one group of people's fault that that we're in this mess (if indeed we're in one) - i.e. it's the 'bad' guys fault. I stopped buying this some time ago, and I much prefer now to think of our collective experience as the product of where we are at, collectively, not a product of what 'they' do, at all. Nothing wrong with anger, for sure, but to be effective, it has to be controlled, and I'm not sure his. Could be wrong I suppose.

    Do I thing we're being controlled? Yes. How we're being controlled, I don't think really matters, as far as the big picture is concerned. I don't think there's any external way to stop it - it has be internal - every person has to, and will, decide what the best course is for themselves by acting on what they have fostered internally. But that's not to say people like Alex are not needed. I think they absolutely are, or surely they wouldn't be here!

    Alex and David certainly seem to serve a purpose. David was the first to flick the switch in my head - that made me realise there were dimensions of possibilities and 'realities', right here on earth, that I had barely thought possible. It was important information for me, but I think the important bit for me was what I did with the information, for my own, personal waking up (if indeed I've succeeded even one bit at that - my jury is out on it). The single most powerful thing I've ever done for myself, I think, was to decide to take responsibility for myself. Now I don't pay much attention, for very long, to viewpoints that seem to just point out the 'problems' in the world, as if that is they are the only problems we have. As far as I can see it WE are the problem!

    We could do with waking up a bit for sure, in terms of what we think is out there in the world, and what's happening in it, and if we did, perhaps it would be impossible to herd us around and deceive us in the ways that we seem to be being. But more than that I think, we could do with stopping blaming anyone else for our emotional states and paths in life and perhaps take control of them ourselves. I don't hear Alex or David Ike talking very much about that, so I've pretty much stopped listening.

    I still love listening to Bill, because he seems far, far less concerned with blaming anyone, and often uses his highly developed powers of deduction simply to angle in on what might really be going on in situations. I devour just about every interview he gives. They're fascinating, and I love his humility, his humor, and how he relates to his interviewees. His skills as an interviewer are undoubtedly world class in my book - I haven't seen anyone, in his field, who I enjoy more. Hope I don't sound like I'm gushing at you Bill, if you're reading. I'm sure you've had worse...
    Well Said

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by Apulu (here)
    I think the thing that gets me most about Alex, apart from the anger, is the insistence (seeming) that it's all one group of people's fault that that we're in this mess (if indeed we're in one) - i.e. it's the 'bad' guys fault. I stopped buying this some time ago, and I much prefer now to think of our collective experience as the product of where we are at, collectively, not a product of what 'they' do, at all. Nothing wrong with anger, for sure, but to be effective, it has to be controlled, and I'm not sure his. Could be wrong I suppose.
    Alex is giving the "common denominator" what it wants... we want someONE to blame (some single entity, the "Illuminati" or what ever) we want POLARIZED issues, (black or white, Good or bad, inbetween and grey is hard to think about, it takes effort, "we" don't want that).

    I have the beginnings of a theory that Sociopaths and Psychopaths are perhaps a genetic throw-back to when being a predator was mostly important to surviving (over interpersonal relationships); it has evolved a bit of course, they still use social camouflage and only pounce on what they see as weakness.

    Alex see's the "weakness" of the masses that flock to his message and leverages it beautifully for his own benefit.

    Quote Posted by Apulu (here)
    I still love listening to Bill, because he seems far, far less concerned with blaming anyone, and often uses his highly developed powers of deduction simply to angle in on what might really be going on in situations. I devour just about every interview he gives. They're fascinating, and I love his humility, his humor, and how he relates to his interviewees. His skills as an interviewer are undoubtedly world class in my book - I haven't seen anyone, in his field, who I enjoy more. Hope I don't sound like I'm gushing at you Bill, if you're reading. I'm sure you've had worse...
    and yet, look at the difference in penetration, in "reached audience".

    Clearly one person knows "the game" better than the other, the question I have is this: can the game be played with out AlexJones tactics?

    I don't think so, not profitably, not with any real reach.


    As you elluded to, this collective is just not ready for more than Alex jones yelling in the corner or Kim K. doing what ever she does... the majority of consumed entertainment is still very "low brow" or at best extremely abstract in it's correlation to reality.


    That said:

    I've said for years that Alex is either controlled opposition or just a "useful idiot", a sort of drain trap for those who start to get uncomfortable with society, and settle slightly out of the "Blind belief in TV" to the "blind belief in Alt-media".. really the same thing just slightly different topics, or different views on the same topics.

    I'm leaning more to "useful idiot" lately, allowed to continue for his ability to collect the "strays" that wonder from societies beaten path (I can identify an Alex Jones fan by the topics they speak on almost immediately, or could back when I followed his material anyway; just sheep of a different color.)
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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    Scotland Avalon Member Apulu's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)

    Alex is giving the "common denominator" what it wants... we want someONE to blame (some single entity, the "Illuminati" or what ever) we want POLARIZED issues, (black or white, Good or bad, inbetween and grey is hard to think about, it takes effort, "we" don't want that).

    I have the beginnings of a theory that Sociopaths and Psychopaths are perhaps a genetic throw-back to when being a predator was mostly important to surviving (over interpersonal relationships); it has evolved a bit of course, they still use social camouflage and only pounce on what they see as weakness.
    Interesting perspective: yeah I've often wondered: do we blame a predator for killing a human or any other animal? Obviously not, so why are we so shocked and appalled and outraged when a human predator does what they do? Are they so different because of their human ability to chose? Like it or not humans, they have a right to chose. They don't have a right to remove my or anyone else's choice, but equally I don't have the right to say that their choice is wrong (ultimately perhaps). Just don't expect me to want you around at all much, all you predators.

    Grey is definitely uncomfortable ground for most, and you quickly start losing the respect and attention of the vast majority when you deviate from black and white, it seems. And it just gets greyer and greyer, the more you look. Probably till it's white again!

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Alex see's the "weakness" of the masses that flock to his message and leverages it beautifully for his own benefit.
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I've said for years that Alex is either controlled opposition or just a "useful idiot", a sort of drain trap for those who start to get uncomfortable with society, and settle slightly out of the "Blind belief in TV" to the "blind belief in Alt-media ...

    I'm leaning more to "useful idiot" lately, allowed to continue for his ability to collect the "strays" that wonder from societies beaten path ...

    I hear people constantly talk about what "great information" Alex puts out there, "amazing information" that he dishes out to us waiting in the glow of our Laptop screens. As if more and more of that "secret" "inside" information is going to somehow change our lives on this planet. Just a few more pieces of the puzzle and then... what??

    I often think that "our community" is addicted to information. We take it in, many of us, like a junkie takes in smack. Guess what--information ain't gonna save us. Being authentic, growing, transforming into our greatest selves, that will likely do it. I think most of prefer to just keep getting more "information" shoveled in, rather than really engaging with who we are and what and who is around us.

    Yes, TargeT, you can say AJ is Useful, but not an idiot, I think. What I think now is he's neither with the CIA or any other such outfit. Rather, he's with AJ. He's doing it all for himself, for that giant ego that you can see plainly on your screens. He doesn't really care about wonderful changes happening -- no, silly, then what would he do with himself all day? What and whom would he rant at? As I said above, during Occupy Wall Street it became crystal clear that he was not in our movement towards beauty and truth and joy. He's about conflict. And information... Information...

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    Default Re: The Alex Jones Show and then there's Bill Ryan

    I listen to all alternative news sources mentioned in this thread, they are all helpful, and I am always searching for new ones. They all have a slightly different angle, and none of them are always 100% correct. But they are all way better than the lies that spew out of the main stream propaganda machines! The trick is to keep an open mind, not get fixed or stagnate to single news source(s). Stay alert, listen to several, but think for yourself and make up your own mind as to what has the ring of truth. It is a constant process of looking, observing and evaluating. Also it takes a lot of courage to stick out ones neck and report on things that others might ridicule or might get one in danger, and this in my view is another reason to support them all.
    Artist - Lover of Life - Seeker of Truth

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