+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 62

Thread: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

  1. Link to Post #41
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    21st July 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    586
    Thanks
    277
    Thanked 2,650 times in 493 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    East Sun,

    Yes the Catholic church took many traditions(Yggdrasil, Mistletoe, St Nick, etc.) to get those pagans to join their new group.

    Herve,

    Why did Plato want to accomplish this trick?
    Furthermore, What do you make of Graham Hancock and Robert Bauvals book about the Cathars?

    It seems to me that someone is trying to destroy the real message by piling on garbage onto it. John 1-5 is SUPER different from most ideas in the bible if you really take a moment to its meaning. Language is power. Without language we have nothing. No society, No religion, NOTHING. We are animals in the state of nature. the word is important. With that in mind, go think about John 1 -5.

    I must admit, I believe the idea of Hancock and Bauval that there are(i know this is a simplification) two forces in a fight and we see this fight manifest in our religions and culture. So was Plato a baddy? Because this war predates 10 000 IMHO.

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Praxis For This Post:

    Foxie Loxie (2nd November 2017), Hervé (2nd November 2017), seko (5th May 2019), Tintin (2nd November 2018), Valerie Villars (9th April 2018)

  3. Link to Post #42
    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th February 2015
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,274
    Thanks
    11,862
    Thanked 7,733 times in 1,233 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    So was Plato a baddy?
    I'd say no. I always felt he was revealing things, rather like opening curtains to let the light shine in. What a psychopath does with the information he points out is outside his control, it only leaves the debate on whether he should have stayed quiet in the first place.

    If a thousand people reads his words and wake-up, great.
    If only one reads them and uses the information as a blueprint to enslave ten thousand, promptly holding a book-burning session upon inauguration, not so great.

  4. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Ewan For This Post:

    fourty-two (3rd November 2017), Foxie Loxie (2nd November 2017), gord (10th January 2018), Hervé (2nd November 2017), Krist (3rd December 2017), raregem (3rd December 2017), seko (3rd December 2017), Valerie Villars (9th April 2018)

  5. Link to Post #43
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    'As important as the scientific discoveries of Darwin and Galileo': Linguist Francesco Carotta demonstrates the real identity of 'Jesus Christ' to be Julius Caesar

    PR Newswire
    Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:25 UTC
    Quote Carotta:
    'Everything of the Story of Jesus can be Found in the Biography of Caesar.'
    The Italian-German linguist and philosopher Francesco Carotta proves in his book Jesus was Caesar that the story of Jesus Christ has its origin in Roman sources. After more than fifteen years of investigation Carotta has found the traces which lead to the Julian origin of Christianity. He concludes that the story of Jesus is based on the narrative of the life of Julius Caesar.
    Carotta:
    ''The Gospel proves to be the history of the Roman Civil war, a 'mis-telling' of the life of Caesar-from the Rubicon to his assassination-mutated into the narrative of Jesus, from the Jordan to his crucifixion. Jesus is a true historical figure, he lived as Gaius Julius Caesar, and ressurected as Divus Julius.''
    The cult surrounding Jesus Christ, son of God and originator of Christianity appeared during the second century. Early historians, however, never mentioned Jesus and even to this day there has been no historical proof of his existence. Julius Caesar, 'son of Venus' and founder of the Roman Empire, was elevated to the status of Imperial God, Divus Julius, after his violent death. The cult that surrounded him dissolved as Christianity surfaced.



    Carotta's new evidence leads to such an overwhelming amount of similarities between the biography of Caesar and the story of Jesus that coincidence can be ruled out.


    • Both Caesar and Jesus start their rising careers in neighboring states in the north: Gallia and Galilee.
    • Both have to cross a fateful river: the Rubicon and the Jordan. Once across the rivers, they both come across a patron/rival: Pompeius and John the Baptist, and their first followers: Antonius and Curio on the one hand and Peter and Andrew on the other.
    • Both are continually on the move, finally arriving at the capital, Rome and Jerusalem, where they at first triumph, yet subsequently undergo their passion.
    • Both have good relationships with women and have a special relationship with one particular woman, Caesar with Cleopatra and Jesus with Magdalene.
    • Both have encounters at night, Caesar with Nicomedes of Bithynia, Jesus with Nicodemus of Bethany.
    • Both have an affinity to ordinary people-and both run afoul of the highest authorities: Caesar with the Senate, Jesus with the Sanhedrin.
    • Both are contentious characters, but show praiseworthy clemency as well: the clementia Caesaris and Jesus' Love-thy-enemy.
    • Both have a traitor: Brutus and Judas. And an assassin who at first gets away: the other Brutus and Barabbas. And one who washes his hands of it: Lepidus and Pilate.
    • Both are accused of making themselves kings: King of the Romans and King of the Jews. Both are dressed in red royal robes and wear a crown on their heads: a laurel wreath and a crown of thorns.
    • Both get killed: Caesar is stabbed with daggers, Jesus is crucified, but with a stab wound in his side.
    • Jesus as well as Caesar hang on a cross. For a reconstruction of the crucifixion of Caesar, see here.

    • Both die on the same respective dates of the year: Caesar on the Ides (15 th) of March, Jesus on the 15 th of Nisan.
    • Both are deified posthumously: as Divus Iulius and as Jesus Christ.
    • Caesar and Jesus also use the same words, e.g.: Caesar's famous Latin 'Veni, vidi, vici' - I came, I saw, I conquered - is in the Gospel transmitted into: 'I came, washed and saw', whereby Greek enipsa, 'I washed', replaces enikisa, 'I conquered'.
    Prominent European scholars and intellectuals are jubilant:
    'This report is of the same order of importance as the scientific discoveries of Darwin and Galileo.'

    ¬ Paul Cliteur, Ph. D., University of Leiden, The Netherlands

    'Reading Francesco Carotta's book has fascinated me, ...leading the mind of the reader step by step to the solution of an obscure intrigue. This voyage was like a liberating and exhilarating breath of fresh air.'

    ¬ Fotis Kavoukopoulos Ph. D., an international expert in linguistics, Athens, Greece

    'New connections which have never been seen that way'.

    ¬ Erika Simon Ph.D. Germany
    Francesco Carotta, Jesus was Caesar. On the Julian Origin of Christianity, available from Amazon.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  6. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    BMJ (12th April 2018), drneglector (28th July 2018), Foxie Loxie (3rd December 2017), gord (3rd December 2017), Krist (3rd December 2017), raregem (3rd December 2017), seko (3rd December 2017), Sophocles (10th January 2018), thunder24 (12th January 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018), Zampano (3rd December 2017)

  7. Link to Post #44
    United States Avalon Member Foxie Loxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th September 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Age
    74
    Posts
    3,079
    Thanks
    67,683
    Thanked 17,312 times in 2,953 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    Reminds me of the book, "Caesar's Messiah". It's amazing to see how many people are waking up to the fact that humanity has been manipulated for so many centuries!

  8. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Foxie Loxie For This Post:

    BMJ (12th April 2018), gord (3rd December 2017), Hervé (3rd December 2017), Krist (3rd December 2017), raregem (3rd December 2017), seko (3rd December 2017), Sophocles (10th January 2018)

  9. Link to Post #45
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    The book that turned America's Evangelicals Zionist: The Scofield Bible

    Maidhc Ó Cathail Washington Report on Middle East Affairs
    Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:51 UTC


    "For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
    -The New Scofield Study Bible
    Since it was first published in 1909, the Scofield Reference Bible has made uncompromising Zionists out of tens of millions of Americans. When John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), said that "50 million evangelical bible-believing Christians unite with five million American Jews standing together on behalf of Israel," it was the Scofield Bible that he was talking about.

    Although the Scofield Reference Bible contains the text of the King James Authorized Version, it is not the traditional Protestant bible but Cyrus I. Scofield's annotated commentary that is problematic. More than any other factor, it is Scofield's notes that have induced generations of American evangelicals to believe that God demands their uncritical support for the modern State of Israel.

    Blessing Israel, Cursing Its Critics
    Central to Christian Zionist belief is Scofield's commentary (italicized below) on Genesis 12:3:
    "'I will bless them that bless thee.' In fulfillment closely related to the next clause, 'And curse him that curseth thee.' Wonderfully fulfilled in the history of the dispersion. It has invariably fared ill with the people who have persecuted the Jew - well with those who have protected him. The future will still more remarkably prove this principle."
    Drawing on Scofield's rather tendentious interpretation, Hagee claims, "The man or nation that lifts a voice or hand against Israel invites the wrath of God."

    But as Stephen Sizer points out in his definitive critique, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon? (available from AET's Middle East Books and More):
    "The promise, when referring to Abraham's descendants, speaks of God blessing them, not of entire nations 'blessing' the Hebrew nation, still less the contemporary and secular State of Israel."
    Notwithstanding this more orthodox reading, The New Scofield Study Bible, published by Oxford University Press in 1984, intensified Scofield's interpretation by adding,
    "For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
    "Sustained by a dubious exegesis of selective biblical texts," Sizer concludes,
    "Christian Zionism's particular reading of history and contemporary events...sets Israel and the Jewish people apart from other peoples in the Middle East...it justifies the endemic racism intrinsic to Zionism, exacerbates tensions between Jews and Palestinians and undermines attempts to find a peaceful resolution of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, all because 'the Bible tells them so.'"
    The Incredible Scofield
    In his 2008 book, The Rise of Israel: A History of a Revolutionary State, Jonathan R. Adelman describes the crucial support Israel receives from Christian fundamentalists as "totally fortuitous." That assertion is belied, however, by the incredible career of the man who wrote "the Bible of Fundamentalism."

    Two years after Scofield's reported conversion to Christianity in 1879, the Atchison Patriot was less than impressed. Describing the former Atchison resident as the "late lawyer, politician and shyster generally," the article went on to recount a few of Scofield's "many malicious acts." These included a series of forgeries in St. Louis, for which he was sentenced to six months in jail.

    Being a "born again" preacher did not preclude Scofield from becoming a member of an exclusive New York men's club in 1901, either. In his devastating biography, The Incredible Scofield and His Book, Joseph M. Canfield suggests,
    "The admission of Scofield to the Lotus Club, which could not have been sought by Scofield, strengthens the suspicion that has cropped up before, that someone was directing the career of C.I. Scofield."
    That someone, Canfield suspects, was associated with one of the club's committee members, the Wall Street lawyer Samuel Untermeyer. As Canfield intimates, Scofield's theology was "most helpful in getting Fundamentalist Christians to back the international interest in one of Untermeyer's pet projects - the Zionist Movement."

    Others have been even more explicit about the nature of Scofield's service to the Zionist agenda. In "Unjust War Theory: Christian Zionism and the Road to Jerusalem," Prof. David W. Lutz writes, "Untermeyer used Scofield, a Kansas City lawyer with no formal training in theology, to inject Zionist ideas into American Protestantism. Untermeyer and other wealthy and influential Zionists whom he introduced to Scofield promoted and funded the latter's career, including travel in Europe."

    On one of these European trips, Oxford University Press publisher Henry Frowde "expressed immediate interest" in Scofield's project. According to a biography of Frowde, although the OUP publisher was "[n]ot demonstrative in his religious views, all his Christian life he was associated with brethren known as 'Exclusive.'" The "Exclusive Brethren" refers to the group of Christian evangelicals that, in an 1848 split in the Plymouth Brethren, followed John Nelson Darby, the Anglo-Irish missionary generally considered to have been the most influential figure in the development of Christian Zionism, and a major influence on Scofield.

    Scofield's Legacy
    Had the Scofield Bible never been published, American presidents influenced by Christian Zionism such as Truman, Johnson, Reagan and George W. Bush might have been less sympathetic to Israeli demands, and consequently more attentive to U.S. interests. Moreover, the American people could have been spared the pseudo-Christian rants of John Hagee, Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell, not to mention the lucrative End Times Rapture "prophecy" peddled by Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye.

    But it is the people of the Middle East who have been most affected by an expansionist Israel emboldened by the unswerving allegiance of Christian Zionists led to believe that Scofield's words are God's will. Not least among the many victims of the Scofield Bible are 5 million Palestinian refugees whose right to return is fervently opposed by America's Zionized Christians. Thanks to their indoctrination by Scofield's unholy book, they believe that Palestine belongs not to the Palestinians - many of whom are fellow Christians - but exclusively to "God's chosen people."

    ======================================

    Adding insults to Plato's injuries... it seems that Balfour was already in the works and Tavistock well on its way.
    Last edited by Hervé; 9th January 2018 at 23:31.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  10. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th January 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Foxie Loxie (10th January 2018), gord (10th January 2018), Lettherebelight (30th August 2018), seko (12th January 2018), Sophocles (10th January 2018), thunder24 (12th January 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018)

  11. Link to Post #46
    United States Avalon Member Foxie Loxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th September 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Age
    74
    Posts
    3,079
    Thanks
    67,683
    Thanked 17,312 times in 2,953 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    Soooooo true about the Scofield Bible!! As one who has risen from that "field", it is good to learn the history which I never knew about said Scofield. I wonder exactly WHEN this "system" was put in place concerning a Zionist Movement & who exactly was "guiding" it to fruition?! Talk about controlling world history!!

  12. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Foxie Loxie For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th January 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Hervé (10th January 2018), seko (12th January 2018), Sophocles (10th January 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018)

  13. Link to Post #47
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th November 2017
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,627
    Thanks
    24,647
    Thanked 17,302 times in 2,585 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    For me, it goes way beyond any discussions of the Bible and whether Jesus was Cesar, etc. It is all about the original archetypes as conceived in the mind of God. That is where the real truth lies, in my opinion. All life is holographic and therefore all we see is. It is the truth behind the archetypes that is important and not whether this or that person was or was not. Who or what resonates in your heart? What attributes do you identify with? That is real truth.

    It doesn't matter if Job, for instance, really existed. The essence of what he represents is the truth.

    Any beliefs beyond the original conceptions is just a big, muddy river.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Valerie Villars For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th January 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Foxie Loxie (12th January 2018), Hervé (12th January 2018), Jayke (11th August 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018)

  15. Link to Post #48
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    OK, Villival...

    First, some dispelling about the "Reality is a hologram" meme: a hologram is an interference pattern of a coherent beam of light (LASER) with itself and doesn't construct anything that has physical solidity... on the other hand, many an individual have ran head first into glass doors which they had no idea were there nor seen and ended up in hospitals... never mind blind people keeping bumping into things which they have no idea/concept of what's there, or not, but keep bumping into those "solid" things of this 3D physical reality.

    Now, about "Archetypes" and the recurrent themes across time and localities, etc... well, what about carefully planned psy-ops similar to the current one about the "Russians": a whole majority of the planet's population is being hard worked on to adopt the inner conviction that it's all Putin's fault/propaganda. Sure, that takes some gigantic programming of a planet's mind, but anyone is fairly well implanted with the "The Russians are coming" archetype... right? Even if it is to laugh at it, it's nonetheless there.

    To further help to comprehend that "archetype" thingy implanted into a planet's population mind, one would need to consider some of the ways such a programming can be/has been achieved such as explained by Truman Cash in his "The Programming Of A Planet" PDF book... long, long ago, on a planet near you.

    So, I am rather inclined to consider those "archetypal essences" projected onto some inkblot symbols to be rather the results of implanted programming than anything else.

    As for this thread, it is titled so as to demonstrate in its content what said "Word of God" actually is... henceforth:
    Last edited by Hervé; 12th January 2018 at 15:32.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  16. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (14th January 2018), Bill Ryan (12th January 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Debra (14th January 2018), Foxie Loxie (12th January 2018), seko (5th May 2019), Tintin (2nd November 2018), Valerie Villars (2nd November 2018)

  17. Link to Post #49
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th November 2017
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,627
    Thanks
    24,647
    Thanked 17,302 times in 2,585 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    Thanks, Herve. You are right to lead on. I'm not equipped to argue points in that way. Psy ops or not. I guess I need an academic command on the same level as you, which I just don't have on any provable level.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Valerie Villars For This Post:

    avid (14th January 2018), Bill Ryan (12th July 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Foxie Loxie (13th January 2018), Hervé (13th January 2018)

  19. Link to Post #50
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th November 2017
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,627
    Thanks
    24,647
    Thanked 17,302 times in 2,585 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    By the way, by holographic I meant looking at something and then seeing there is really something else there, by changing your perspective. It's all good.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Valerie Villars For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th July 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Hervé (14th January 2018)

  21. Link to Post #51
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    For a "modern" version of Plato's "Plan", have a look at this:

    Putin: Communist ideology similar to Christianity, Lenin’s body like saintly relics

    RT World News
    Published time: 14 Jan, 2018 18:04
    Edited time: 15 Jan, 2018 06:28
    Get short URL


    © Vladmir Vyatkin / Sputnik

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has likened communism to Christianity and Vladimir Lenin’s mausoleum in Moscow’s Red Square to the veneration of the relics of saints.

    “Maybe I’ll say something that someone might dislike, but that’s the way I see it,” Putin said in an interview for the documentary Valaam, an excerpt of which was broadcast on Russia 1.
    “First of all, faith has always accompanied us, becoming stronger every time our country, our people, have been through hard times.

    “There were those years of militant atheism when priests were eradicated, churches destroyed, but at the same time a new religion was being created. Communist ideology is very similar to Christianity, in fact: freedom, equality, brotherhood, justice – everything is laid out in the Holy Scripture, it’s all there. And the code of the builder of communism? This is sublimation, it’s just such a primitive excerpt from the Bible, nothing new was invented.”

    Putin went further by comparing the Communists’ attitude to the Bolshevik leader Lenin to the veneration of saints in Christianity.
    “Look, Lenin was put in a mausoleum. How is this different from the relics of saints for Orthodox Christians and just for Christians? When they say that there’s no such tradition in Christianity, well, how come, go to Athos and take a look, there are relics of the saints there, and we have holy relics here,” Putin concluded.
    After Lenin died in 1924, his body was embalmed and put on display in a mausoleum in Red Square, Moscow. The cult of Lenin was part of Soviet ideology. The public debate about the possibility of giving Lenin’s remains a proper burial began during the early days of Perestroika in the 1980s.

    Putin’s words were music to the ears of Communist Party members. “I think these words of the president very effectively and reasonably smooth out the acute angles around the theme of the mausoleum,” Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Ivan Melnikov said on Sunday, as cited by Interfax.

    He said however, that “communists and all the leftist patriotic forces [in Russia] understand that communism is close to Christianity as much as the form of capitalism that exists in our country and our economy today is far from Christianity.”

    Earlier this year, Gennadiy Zyuganov, the head of the Russian Communist Party, said Putin had promised him that as long as he remains president, Lenin’s body would remain in the mausoleum in Red Square.

    “As long as I sit here, there will be no barbarism in Red Square,” the Communist chief quoted Putin as saying at a conference with Russian party leaders.

    According to Zyuganov, Putin also dismissed allegations that Lenin was not buried in accordance with Christian traditions. “As far as the form of the burial is concerned, they used the one that is also used in Orthodox Christianity – he lies a meter and a half below the ground level. Sepultures and cave burials have been known for a long time,” Putin said, according to Zyuganov.


    Related:
    Revolutionary corpse: Why and how Russia still preserves Lenin in its heart

    Putin promised to keep Lenin’s body in Moscow mausoleum, communists say
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  22. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (15th January 2018), Bill Ryan (15th January 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), Foxie Loxie (15th January 2018), seko (8th April 2018), Sophocles (9th April 2018)

  23. Link to Post #52
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    3,000 year old drawing of god found in Sinai could undermine our entire idea of Judaism

    Nir Hasson Haaretz
    Wed, 04 Apr 2018 12:00 UTC


    Is that a 3,000-year-old picture of god, his penis and his wife depicted by early Jews at Kuntillet Ajrud?

    More than four decades after its excavation wound down, a small hill in the Sinai Desert continues to bedevil archaeologists. The extraordinary discoveries made at Kuntillet Ajrud, an otherwise nondescript slope in the northern Sinai, seem to undermine one of the foundations of Judaism as we know it.

    Then, it seems, "the Lord our God" wasn't "one God." He may have even had a wife, going by the completely unique "portrait" of the Jewish deity that archaeologists found at the site, which may well be the only existing depiction of YHWH.

    Kuntillet Ajrud got its name, meaning "the isolated hill of the water sources," from wells at the foot of the hill. It is a remote spot in the heart of the desert, far from any town or trade route. But for a short time around 3,000 years ago, it served as a small way station.

    Dozens of drawings and inscriptions, resembling nothing whatever found anywhere else in our region, survived from that period, which seems to have lasted no longer than two or three decades. Egypt gained the artifacts with the peace treaty with Israel 25 years ago, but the release of the report on the excavation six years ago and a book about the site two years ago have kept the argument over the exceptional findings from the hill in Sinai alive.

    The hill lies 50 kilometers south of Kadesh Barnea and 15 kilometers west of the ancient Darb el-Ghazza route, which led from Gaza to the Read Sea's Gulf of Eilat. Its unique qualities were first noticed in 1870 by the British explorer Edward Palmer who discovered a fragment of a clay jar, a pithos, marked with the Hebrew letter aleph.


    Kuntillet Ajrud.

    Later, in 1902, a Czech orientalist and explorer, Alois Musil but was attacked by local Bedouins who claimed that he was defiling a holy site. Exploration would only resume in 1975, by the Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Meshel, as a collaboration between the university and the Israel Exploration Society.

    The excavation showed that Kuntillat Ajrud was what's called a "single-layer site," meaning, it had been occupied for just one period, which the excavators dated to the late ninth century or early eighth century B.C.E.

    Meshel estimated that it had been occupied very briefly, 25 years at most. Structure-wise, the excavators only found two fairly simple, unimpressive structures. The wonder lay in the drawings and inscriptions.


    Ancient Hebrew writing on the rim of a bowl found at Kuntillet Ajrud, dating to about 3,000 years ago

    Clay from Jerusalem
    At first the archaeologists thought that the place was a military fortress. Other fortresses from the First Temple period had been found in the Negev. But no evidence that there had been a military presence was found, and in the third excavation season, Meshel decided that the structures weren't that sort.

    Nor would Kuntillet Ajrud have been suitable as an inn for travelers: it was too small and was off the beaten track. Nor did it seem to match any of the criteria of a trade station.


    Ancient Hebrew writing found at Kuntillet Ajrud

    The first hint at the true character of Kuntillet Ajrud was the discovery of pottery fragments inscribed with ancient Hebrew letters: quf, quf resh, aleph and yud.

    Analysis of the clay from which the pithos (pottery jars) was intriguing. The pots were made of hawar motza, clay only found by Jerusalem. In other words, the jars had been made in area of Jerusalem, which was certainly far away.

    Among the inscriptions were a blessing and religious texts. That and the origin of the clay suggested to Meshel that the residents were priests and Levites, who were supported by tithes collected in the Temple in Jerusalem.


    Animal images found at Kuntillet Ajrud

    In line with the spirit of this interpretation, he also interpreted the letters on the dishes: quf as standing for kodesh (holy), quf-resh as the first two letters in the word korban (sacrifice), and aleph for a korban asham (guilt offering).

    The letter yud, Meshel suggests, may represent a vessel that had been used to continued tithes, though he himself casts doubt on that theory: "In First Temple times, they used Egyptian numbers," he points out.

    Another inscription found there argues that the hill had been peopled by a literate elite and even hints at the presence of a school. One vessel contains the Hebrew alphabet twice - one in the crisp, competent handwriting of a well-trained scribe and another in what researchers suspect was the hesitant handwriting of a student.

    If all this is true, what was a small group of priests and Levites doing in the middle of the desert?

    When King Yoash conquered Judah
    Meshel thinks the people dwelling at the site were providing an essential service: writing blessings. But from who, for who? The story gets even more complicated when one examines the site through the lens of geopolitics.

    At the time the hill was occupied, the kingdom of Israel existed in the north, ruled from Samaria. The kingdom of Judah existed in the south and had its capital in Jerusalem.

    However, the names and inscriptions found at Kuntillat Ajrud seem to be Israelite, not Judahite. It seems to have been an Israelite site - far, far to the south of Israel and even south of the Judah border.


    Reconstruction of what may be the image of King Yoash, possibly the only known contemporary portrait of a Judahite king. Found at Kuntillet Ajrud

    Why would one kingdom maintain a religious site at the far end of another kingdom?

    Meshel thinks the Israelite presence in or beyond the Judean kingdom, and the fact that Jerusalem (the capital of Judah) provisioned this way station of the rival kingdom, indicates that at the time the kingdom of Israel was, or was turning into, a regional power.

    Judah was a vassal state subject to the more powerful northern kingdom, he thinks.

    As for why Judahite Jerusalem would provision this Israelite-manned hilltop in the middle of nowhere, Meshel suspects it all comes down to Kuntillat Ajrud having been founded by none other than King Yoash of Israel.
    "The bible says that war broke out between Amatzia, king of Judah, and Yoash, king of Israel," he says. Thus the Israelite king Yoash gained control of Judah.

    Kuntillet Ajrud

    It would have been convenient for Yoash to provision Kuntillat Ajrud from the Temple in Judah. Why would he have sent up north to bring supplies for it from Israel, Meshel asks rhetorically.

    If indeed Meshel is right and King Yoash founded the site, he may be the figure drawn on plaster at the entrance of the building.

    The drawing, possibly of the king, was restored by Prof. Pirhiya Bar based on similar drawings from the ancient east, in which the royal figure holds a lotus flower. It is a reasonable possibility that the figure depicted at Kuntillet Ajrud was a ruler or king, and if so, then it is the only contemporary visual description we have of a king from biblical times.
    "I told myself look at the luck I had, finding the only drawing of a king from the First Temple period," says Meshel.
    A picture of God, and is that his tail
    Kuntillet Ajrud also brought images of animals, humans and what seems to be gods.


    Depiction of god and his wife? Found at Kuntillet Ajrud

    The one causing the controversy shows a man and a women, drawn naively, with crowned heads and holding hands. The man has either a tail or a large penis, and above him the blessing "Yahweh and his Asherah" is written.

    Could the couple on the pithos be a rendering of God and his wife Asherah, the only one ever found?

    Dr. Yigal Bin Nun, a researcher and author of "A Brief History of YHWH." has no doubt.
    "If you want to step away from reality then you can say this or that, but if you look at it as it is you can't ignore the truth," he says.
    Among the detractors are Prof. Tallay Ornan, who has studied the images at the site, and Prof. Shmuel Ahituv, an acclaimed ancient inscriptions researcher. Both contributed to a book on the topic together with Meshel and Esther Eshel, published last year.

    They think these figures show the minor Egyptian deity Bes, not YHWH, the Jewish god.
    "Bes is a dwarf who was the deity of witches," Ahituv says, adding that in his view, the picture shown wouldn't befit a major divinity.
    Defending the picture as that of YHWH, Ben Nun an Israelite religious site on the border of Judah, under the political auspices of Assyria, would be unlikely to hail Bes, or any Egyptian god or symbol. Egypt was considered hostile.
    "The Bes explanation is completely illogical," Ben Nun says.
    Furthermore, it's hard to make sense of the writing "YHWH and his Asherah" without suspecting that this god, at least according to the people on this hill, was married.

    God of the south and god of the north
    Other phrases found at the site also challenge the known pantheon of Israelite faith. "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Samaria and his

    These are doubly outrageous. If God is one, then how can there be god for the north (Shomron) and for the south (Yemen, still called Teman in Hebrew)?

    To make matters worse, does the word "Asherah," formulated as "his Asherah", hint that the gods of Israel had a wife? If so, where has she gone?

    For Meshel, the site's main researcher, the issue remains unresolved.


    "pithos" Kuntillet Ajrud

    He and Ben Nun suspect the site brings insight to the beliefs of the people living here 3,000 years ago. They did not worship a single al-powerful deity: they were devoted to a pantheon of gods.

    It has also long been known that households with Jewish hallmarks, certainly in the First Temple era and later too, also had images of other gods, a.k.a, figurines.

    If anything the discoveries at Kuntillet Ajrud indicate that in the late ninth century B.C.E. or the early eighth, the idea of a single deity had not yet consolidated, suggests Meshel. "In this religious reality YHWH is local, for the city, the village, for Shomron and for Teman (Yemen)."

    Ashera the tree?
    The sheer fact that Kuntillet Ajrud was so far-flung is what enabled it to survive, Meshel further claims - albeit not for long.

    Come the seventh century B.C.E., Josiah King of Judah spearheaded a profound religious reformation, that included centralizing ritual sacrifice in Jerusalem and destroying competing sites.

    By that time, Kuntillet Ajrud was long since abandoned. Meshel suspects the kingdom simply forgot about it.

    Ahituv rejects this whole analysis and thinks that Ashera referred to a tree. Or maybe a thing or place. But not an independent female divinity.
    "If you look at the Bible you can see that there is no sacrifice for Ashera - but rather the ashera is chopped down ahead of war," he says.

    "It may be a tree but it was not an independent being."
    Regarding the varying names of Jehovah, Ahituv says these are different manifestations of the same god, "its like there are different manifestations of the Holy Mary in different places and everyone knows it's the same Mary."

    Meshel does not agree:
    "If you read the phrase as is, clearly the meaning is that she is his partner."

    "The Bible reads: Ashera pesel (Ashera statue) - the statue had to represent someone. We can't just say it was a log," Ben Nun bolsters the point. Some also believe the early Jews worshipped trees.
    This argument is bound to continue even though access to the actual findings is impossible. As part of the deal with Egypt, all archaeological findings were returned to Cairo in 1993. They have not been shown to the public since then. Meshel fears Kuntillet Ajrud will be forgotten again.



    Related:
    Senior Israeli archaeologist casts doubt on Jewish heritage of Jerusalem

    Judaism and Christianity - Two Thousand Years of Lies - 60 Years of State Terrorism

    Israel's rebel caves lead down to ancient wonders

    Research Reveals Ancient Struggle over Holy Land Supremacy

    Rare Noah's Ark mosaic uncovered in ancient synagogue in Israel
    Last edited by Hervé; 8th April 2018 at 19:35.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  24. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (8th April 2018), Bill Ryan (12th July 2018), Billy (5th July 2018), BMJ (12th April 2018), drneglector (28th July 2018), Foxie Loxie (8th April 2018), Franny (9th April 2018), gord (21st June 2018), seko (8th April 2018), Sophocles (9th April 2018), Valerie Villars (24th June 2018)

  25. Link to Post #53
    Avalon Member gord's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th October 2015
    Location
    Where the truth hurts, but refuses to die
    Age
    56
    Posts
    177
    Thanks
    2,353
    Thanked 794 times in 165 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    So, I finally got around to listening several times to the Russell Gmirkin interview linked to in post #13, and I guess I would just say it seems that Plato devised a self-replicating frankenstein monster of a mind virus that's been highly successful and toxic to everyone in a variety of forms for about 2300 years now. Yeesh.
    Those who must silence others for speaking the truth cannot be innocent.

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to gord For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th July 2018), BMJ (23rd August 2018), Foxie Loxie (24th June 2018), Hervé (24th June 2018), Lettherebelight (30th August 2018), Sophocles (24th June 2018)

  27. Link to Post #54
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    21st July 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    586
    Thanks
    277
    Thanked 2,650 times in 493 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    The book that turned America's Evangelicals Zionist: The Scofield Bible

    Maidhc Ó Cathail Washington Report on Middle East Affairs
    Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:51 UTC


    "For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
    -The New Scofield Study Bible
    Since it was first published in 1909, the Scofield Reference Bible has made uncompromising Zionists out of tens of millions of Americans. When John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), said that "50 million evangelical bible-believing Christians unite with five million American Jews standing together on behalf of Israel," it was the Scofield Bible that he was talking about.

    Although the Scofield Reference Bible contains the text of the King James Authorized Version, it is not the traditional Protestant bible but Cyrus I. Scofield's annotated commentary that is problematic. More than any other factor, it is Scofield's notes that have induced generations of American evangelicals to believe that God demands their uncritical support for the modern State of Israel.

    Blessing Israel, Cursing Its Critics
    Central to Christian Zionist belief is Scofield's commentary (italicized below) on Genesis 12:3:
    "'I will bless them that bless thee.' In fulfillment closely related to the next clause, 'And curse him that curseth thee.' Wonderfully fulfilled in the history of the dispersion. It has invariably fared ill with the people who have persecuted the Jew - well with those who have protected him. The future will still more remarkably prove this principle."
    Drawing on Scofield's rather tendentious interpretation, Hagee claims, "The man or nation that lifts a voice or hand against Israel invites the wrath of God."

    But as Stephen Sizer points out in his definitive critique, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon? (available from AET's Middle East Books and More):
    "The promise, when referring to Abraham's descendants, speaks of God blessing them, not of entire nations 'blessing' the Hebrew nation, still less the contemporary and secular State of Israel."
    Notwithstanding this more orthodox reading, The New Scofield Study Bible, published by Oxford University Press in 1984, intensified Scofield's interpretation by adding,
    "For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
    "Sustained by a dubious exegesis of selective biblical texts," Sizer concludes,
    "Christian Zionism's particular reading of history and contemporary events...sets Israel and the Jewish people apart from other peoples in the Middle East...it justifies the endemic racism intrinsic to Zionism, exacerbates tensions between Jews and Palestinians and undermines attempts to find a peaceful resolution of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, all because 'the Bible tells them so.'"
    The Incredible Scofield
    In his 2008 book, The Rise of Israel: A History of a Revolutionary State, Jonathan R. Adelman describes the crucial support Israel receives from Christian fundamentalists as "totally fortuitous." That assertion is belied, however, by the incredible career of the man who wrote "the Bible of Fundamentalism."

    Two years after Scofield's reported conversion to Christianity in 1879, the Atchison Patriot was less than impressed. Describing the former Atchison resident as the "late lawyer, politician and shyster generally," the article went on to recount a few of Scofield's "many malicious acts." These included a series of forgeries in St. Louis, for which he was sentenced to six months in jail.

    Being a "born again" preacher did not preclude Scofield from becoming a member of an exclusive New York men's club in 1901, either. In his devastating biography, The Incredible Scofield and His Book, Joseph M. Canfield suggests,
    "The admission of Scofield to the Lotus Club, which could not have been sought by Scofield, strengthens the suspicion that has cropped up before, that someone was directing the career of C.I. Scofield."
    That someone, Canfield suspects, was associated with one of the club's committee members, the Wall Street lawyer Samuel Untermeyer. As Canfield intimates, Scofield's theology was "most helpful in getting Fundamentalist Christians to back the international interest in one of Untermeyer's pet projects - the Zionist Movement."

    Others have been even more explicit about the nature of Scofield's service to the Zionist agenda. In "Unjust War Theory: Christian Zionism and the Road to Jerusalem," Prof. David W. Lutz writes, "Untermeyer used Scofield, a Kansas City lawyer with no formal training in theology, to inject Zionist ideas into American Protestantism. Untermeyer and other wealthy and influential Zionists whom he introduced to Scofield promoted and funded the latter's career, including travel in Europe."

    On one of these European trips, Oxford University Press publisher Henry Frowde "expressed immediate interest" in Scofield's project. According to a biography of Frowde, although the OUP publisher was "[n]ot demonstrative in his religious views, all his Christian life he was associated with brethren known as 'Exclusive.'" The "Exclusive Brethren" refers to the group of Christian evangelicals that, in an 1848 split in the Plymouth Brethren, followed John Nelson Darby, the Anglo-Irish missionary generally considered to have been the most influential figure in the development of Christian Zionism, and a major influence on Scofield.

    Scofield's Legacy
    Had the Scofield Bible never been published, American presidents influenced by Christian Zionism such as Truman, Johnson, Reagan and George W. Bush might have been less sympathetic to Israeli demands, and consequently more attentive to U.S. interests. Moreover, the American people could have been spared the pseudo-Christian rants of John Hagee, Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell, not to mention the lucrative End Times Rapture "prophecy" peddled by Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye.

    But it is the people of the Middle East who have been most affected by an expansionist Israel emboldened by the unswerving allegiance of Christian Zionists led to believe that Scofield's words are God's will. Not least among the many victims of the Scofield Bible are 5 million Palestinian refugees whose right to return is fervently opposed by America's Zionized Christians. Thanks to their indoctrination by Scofield's unholy book, they believe that Palestine belongs not to the Palestinians - many of whom are fellow Christians - but exclusively to "God's chosen people."

    ======================================

    Adding insults to Plato's injuries... it seems that Balfour was already in the works and Tavistock well on its way.
    OMFG.

    I just realized this.


    Do you have any idea who this was?

    I actually worked with Maidhc when I was living in Japan.

    He ran an excellent Blog called the Passionate Attachment.

    He was a friend. But he lost his battle with depression last year(omg it might be two years now.)

    EDIT, This has hit me like a ton of bricks for some reason.

    Cherish the people you have in your life and help when you can. I knew Maidhc was in a rough place,but not as rough as I thought, and I didnt do enough for him when I could.

    I also thought him going back to Ireland would have helped. Reach out to people and make sure they are ok
    Last edited by Praxis; 12th July 2018 at 14:48.

  28. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Praxis For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th July 2018), Billy (25th July 2018), BMJ (23rd August 2018), Foxie Loxie (12th July 2018), Hervé (12th July 2018), seko (5th May 2019), Sophocles (12th July 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018), Valerie Villars (12th July 2018)

  29. Link to Post #55
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    More recent instances of the application of Plato's "Laws" template to a population: The Khazarian invaders from Asia and the christianization of Russia:

    In the 1st century B.C. the Khazars had invaded eastern Europe from their homeland in Asia. The Khazars invaded eastern Europe via the land route between the north end of the Caspian Sea and the south end of the Ural Mountains.

    [...]

    The Khazars were not "Semites". They were an Asiatic Mongoloid nation. They are classified by modern anthropologists as Turco-Finns racially. From time immemorial the homeland of the Khazars was in the heart of Asia. They were a very warlike nation. The Khazars were driven out of Asia finally by the nations in Asia with whom they were continually at war. The Khazars invaded eastern Europe to escape further defeats in Asia.

    The very warlike Khazars did not find it difficult to subdue and conquer the 25 peaceful agricultural nations occupying approximately 1,000,000 square miles in eastern Europe. In a comparatively short period the Khazars established the largest and most powerful kingdom in Europe, and probably the wealthiest also.


    The Khazars were a pagan nation when they invaded eastern Europe. Their religious worship was a mixture of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship practiced in Asia by pagan nations This form of worship continued until the 7th century. The vile forms of sexual excess indulged in by the Khazars as their form of religious worship produced a degree of moral degeneracy the Khazar's king could not endure. In the 7th century, King Bulan, ruler at that time of the Khazar Kingdom, decided to abolish the practice of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship and make one of the three monotheistic religions, about which he knew very little, the new state religion. After a historic session with representatives of the three monotheistic religions King Bulan decided against Christian and Islam and selected as the future state religion as the religious worship then known as "Talmudism", and now known and practiced as "Judaism". This even is well documented in history.

    King Bulan and his 4000 feudal nobles were promptly converted by rabbis imported from Babylonia for that event. Phallic worship and other forms of idolatry were thereafter forbidden. The Khazar kings invited large numbers of rabbis to come and open synagogues and schools to instruct the population in the new form of religious worship. It was now the state religion. The converted Khazars were the first population of so-called or self-styled "Jews' in eastern Europe. So-called or self-styled "Jews" in eastern Europe after the conversion of the Khazars the descendants of the Khazars converted to "Talmudism", or as it is now know "Judaism", by the 7th century mass conversion of the Khazar population.

    After the conversion of King Bulan none but a so-called or self-styled "Jew" could occupy the Khazar throne. The Khazar Kingdom became a virtual theocracy. The religious leaders were the civil administrators also. The religious leaders imposed the teachings of the Talmud upon the population as their guide to living. The ideologies of the Talmud became the axis of political, cultural, economic and social attitudes and activities throughout the Khazar kingdom. The Talmud provided civil and religious law.

    [...]

    The so-called or self-styled "Jews" throughout the world today of eastern European origin make up at least 90% of the world's total present population of so-called or self-styled "Jews". The conversion of King Bulan and the Khazar nation in the 7th century accomplished for "Talmudism", or for "Judaism" as "Talmudism" is called today, what the conversion of Constantine and the western European nations accomplished for Christianity. Christianity was a small comparatively unimportant religious belief practiced principally in the eastern Mediterranean area until the conversion to the Christian faith of the large populations of the western European pagan nations after the conversion of Constantine. "Talmudism", or "Judaism" as "Talmudism" is known today, was given its greatest stimulus in all its history with the conversion of the large pagan Khazar population in the 7th century. Without the conversion of the Khazar population it is doubtful if "Talmudism", or "Judaism" as "Talmudism" is known today, could have survived. "Talmudism", the civil and religious code of the Pharisees, most likely would have passed out of existence like the many other creeds and cults practiced by the peoples in that area before, during and after "Pharisaism" assumed its prominent position among these creeds and cults in the time of Jesus. "Talmudism", as "Pharisaism" was called later, would have disappeared with all its contemporary creeds and cults but for the conversion of the Khazars to "Talmudism" in the 7th century. At that time "Talmudism" was well on its way towards complete oblivion.

    In the year 986 A. D. the ruler of Russia, Vladimir III, became a convert to the Christian faith in order to marry a Catholic Slavonic princess of a neighboring sovereign state. The marriage was otherwise impossible. Vladimir III thereupon also made his newly-acquired Christian faith the state religion of Russia replacing the pagan worship formerly practiced in Russia since it was founded in 820 A.D. Vladimir III and his successors as the rulers of Russia attempted in vain to convert his so-called or self-styled "Jews", now Russian subjects, to Russia's Christian state religion and to adopt the customs and culture of the numerically predominant Russian Christian population. The so-called or self- styled "Jews" in Russia refused and resisted this plan vigorously. They refused to adopt the Russian alphabet in place of the Hebrew characters used in writing their "Yiddish" language. They resisted the substitution of the Russian language for "Yiddish" as their mother-tongue. They opposed every attempt to bring about the complete assimilation of the former sovereign Khazar nation into the Russian nation. They resisted with every means at their disposal. The many forms of tension which resulted produced situations described by history as "massacres", "pogroms", "persecution", discrimination, etc.

    [...]

    By Benjamin H. Freedman, ca. 1954, THE TRUTH ABOUT KHAZARS published as "Facts are Facts"






    Last edited by Hervé; 26th July 2018 at 17:28. Reason: typo
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  30. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th July 2018), Billy (25th July 2018), BMJ (23rd August 2018), Foxie Loxie (25th July 2018), Hym (5th May 2019), Joe Akulis (18th October 2018), Paul (29th July 2018), seko (5th May 2019), Sophocles (11th August 2018), YoYoYo (19th October 2018)

  31. Link to Post #56
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    ...

    ... how human transcribed voices ended up impersonating some people's "God":

    Gunnar Heinsohn: Exodus

    by malagabay Posted on August 6, 2018







    David and Israel‘s “United Monarchy” provide the most popular targets for the erasure of time-honored personalities and entities from our history books.

    Nevertheless, archaeological layers consistent with “Yishai“ and “David“ (alphabetical Hebrew) are present in Jerusalem’s period of the Mitanni when “Jishua“ and “Dadua“ (Amarna cuneiform) tried to take the city.

    However, the David presence in these layers has so far remained unrecognized by academe, because both defenders and debunkers of David use Bible dates that place him in the 11th/10th century BCE, whereas the Mitanni are pseudo-astronomically dated to the 14th century (see in detail Heinsohn 2018).

    Since both factions insist on their respective non-scientific dating methods, they exclude a third – stratigraphic — option and thus perpetuate the stalemate.

    For the same reason, eliminating the Hebrew EXODUS from history books is almost as popular as obliterating David.

    At Joshua’s Biblical date (1406 BCE), debunkers say, Jericho was a “small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified [and] [t]here was also no sign of a destruction“ (Finkelstein/Silberman 2002, 77 ff.).

    However, no one doubts the destruction of a massively walled Jericho in the 16th century BCE.

    Gnashing their teeth, the Bible faithful also believe in this pseudo-astronomical date, which comes way too early for them.

    Therefore, the “tumbling down” of Jericho‘s walls in the 16th century BCE does not fit into the context of an EXODUS around 1400 BCE.

    Scholarly deletion of personae and events from the Bible, thus, always follows the same pattern.

    Non-Biblical dating for archaeological finds and strata –– such as pseudo-astronomic Sothic retro-calculation for the Amarna-period (Heinsohn 2005) –– is compared with Bible-based dating of Biblical stories.

    If the non-Biblical dating of the archaeological stratum –– e.g., 1550/1500 BCE for the smashing of Jericho’s “massive stone revetment“ (Kenyon 1957, 213 ff.) –– does not match the Bible date of Joshua’s wall-story (1406 BCE) because it suffers from an “absence of archaeological data“ (Jacobs 2000, 691), the Biblical story is denounced as a mere phantasy.

    This is logical because the findings of archaeology are hard evidence, while the Biblical books are only texts whose composition cannot be reliably reconstructed.

    Nevertheless, both dates –– 1550 and 1406 BCE –– are declared sacrosanct and written in all innocence one after the other in the chronologies.

    The deletion procedure has bizarre features, because both the “scientific” and the Biblical dating can be wrong.

    The date chosen as true, therefore, results from a decision-making process that cannot help but settle for an erroneous view.

    Notwithstanding this unscientific approach, the deleted Biblical stories contain information whose selection and composition require explanation.

    Why are the eliminated personalities, examples given, named Yishai and David, but not Simon and Nathan?

    Why do they fight for a supposedly non-existent Jerusalem instead of a Damascus or Ugarit?

    These questions are answered only partially, or not at all (but see Winzeler 2017).

    No attempts are made to match the strata found in the ground and the names found therein (on clay tablets, seals, vessels, etc.) with Biblical stories.

    In this stratigraphic method, the Biblical dating is left aside for the time being.

    Instead, the question is asked whether Biblical stories can produce a meaningful narrative by comparing them to differently, i.e., non-Biblically dated strata.

    Bible fundamentalists must reject such an approach because they are convinced their dates are God-given.

    They hinder research just as much as archaeologists, who derive their truth from a preference for one of two or, as we will see, even more errors.

    The search for strata that fit the Biblical stories inevitably leads to a re-dating of the Bible stories and mostly also of the archaeological layers.

    But we will see (in continuation of Heinsohn 2018) that meaningful narratives arise as long as only fictitious time is deleted, while the substance of the historical traditions is preserved.

    Most of all, the EXODUS-researchers are confused that the Jebusites must be fought for over 400 Biblical years until they are defeated by David (somewhere between 1005 and 999 BCE) after the first attacks by Joshua around 1406 BCE.

    The possibility that the Joshua stories and the David stories are different reports about the same events is considered absurd, because 400 Biblical years lie between the two heroes.

    The view that the reports of the Egyptian rule and expulsion of the Old-Akkadians in the 22nd century BCE and then again of the Hyksos in the 16th century BCE are Exodus-reports, too, is considered even more bizarre, because they are dated up to 1200 years before David’s conquest of Jebus/Jerusalem.

    The Old-Akkadians, the most powerful empire of their time, left no traces in Magan (=Egypt), though Naram Sin boasted about his victory and even named the powerful enemy: “Magan he smote and Mani [Menes], Lord of Magan“ (Albright 1920, 89).

    The baffled researchers, therefore, believe that the term Magan is always to be translated as Egypt, but in the 23rd/22nd century BCE must have meant something else.

    Oman with no such important ruler is one candidate.

    Equally baffling is the fact that the Hyksos, whose rule over Egypt is not in doubt, employed, in the 17th/16th century (Heinsohn 1991), the 23rd/22nd century cuneiform alphabet as well the very characteristic weapons (e.g., scimitars) of the old Akkadians.

    Nobody understands why the Hyksos were using weapons that had been obsolete for 600 years.

    Scholars have no idea that they are dealing with one and the same world power: i.e. Old-Akkadians = Hyksos.

    That power is dated once by Bible fundamentalism (via Abraham and Nimrod) and once by pseudo-astronomical retro-calculations.

    Researchers can only find traces of one of the “two” empires because in reality the two empires are one and the same.


    [Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

    The first world empire from the historiography of the ancient Greeks is mysteriously without physical traces, too.

    It is the realm of the pre-Medish Assyrians with Ninos –– matching Old-Akkadians and Hyksos with his conquest of Egypt –– as “the first with outstanding deeds“ (Ctesias as preserved in Diodorus Siculus 2, 1: 4).

    In reality, the remains of the Old-Akkadians and/or the pre-Mitanni Hyksos provide the hard evidence of this very empire.

    Since the Old-Akkadians are dated via Abraham, but the Mitanni are dated pseudo-astronomically, they do not seem to follow each other directly –– like Hyksos and Mitanni.

    Stratigraphically, however, in Mesopotamia the finds of the Mitanni (from c. 1500 BCE) lie directly on the finds of the Old-Akkadians (up to c. 2200 BCE; see in detail Heinsohn/Illig 1997, 362 ff).


    [Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

    Stunned by this immediate Old-Akkadian>Mitanni sequence, the excavators were forced to push between their strata an archaeological blank of some 700 years, although the necessary physical evidence (drifts, forests, snail shells etc.) were not found anywhere.

    So the Old-Akkadians are just as immediately pre-Mitannias the Hyksos.

    The shattering of Jericho’s “massive stone revetment“ at the end of the Hyksos period (c. “1550“ BCE pseudo-astronomically) is thus parallel to the catastrophic end of the Old-Akkadians (c. “2150“ BCE Bible fundamentalist date).

    The dates of the two catastrophes, of course, do not correspond to the biblical date of the Exodus (around 1400 BCE).

    That is why they are being ignored for its explanation.

    Stratigraphically, however, they are among the most striking events to which the contents –– like “thunderstorms of hail and fire“ or the “darkness for three days“ (Exodus 9: 13-35; 10: 21-29) –– of the EXODUS narratives fit.

    The following stratigraphic overview, therefore, has to present them side by side.


    [Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

    The EXODUS is therefore a consequence of the catastrophically weakened and then militarily defeated empire of the Old-Akkadians == pre-Mitanni Hyksos == pre-Medish Assyrians.

    This mighty empire also lost its power over Egypt (Magan).

    Old-Akkadian warriors (recruited in the empire’s realms in the Levant, Mesopotamia and Anatolia etc.) who were not killed by the Egyptians had no choice but to flee to Israel.

    Only the most skillful and physically fit were able to escape.

    They were still strong militarily and were desperately and violently looking for new homes.

    Therefore they were described, in the letters to the post-Hyksos court in Amarna (in the time of the Mitanni=Medes), as “migrants“, “rebels“, “raiders“ or “outlaws“, i.e. as “Habiru“.

    The Akkadian/Hyksos conquest of Egypt had to come from Israel for geographical reasons.

    Therefore, native people from Israel will have been among the invaders.

    In this respect, the expulsion from Egypt is also a return to the land of ancestors of the conquerors.

    Can we now say that the EXODUS took place around the 620s BCE, when Cyaxares of Ecbatana (in Greek), Great King of the Medes (identical with Shaushatra of Washukanni [in cuneiform], Great King of the Mitanni {Heinsohn 2006}), began his government?

    Nearly, but not exactly!

    Also in the period of 600 to 1 BCE there is fictitious time (cf. Heinsohn 2018).

    It remains true, however, that the EXODUS is one of the real events during the time when the Medes took power in the Ancient Near East.

    Jericho’s crumbling walls at the end of the Hyksos are Joshua’s tumbling walls of the EXODUS in the time of Jerusalem’s destruction by the Lord’s Angel, when both heroes had to fight against the Jebusites.

    [ For a more precise Exodus date before present, the fictitious seven centuries from the 1st millennium CE must also be subtracted ( see http://www.q-mag.org/the-1st-millenn...ntroversy.html )]

    Wondrously round numbers for the sojourn in Egypt, such as 400 years (Genesis 15:13) or 430 years (Exodus 12:40, 41), belong to the realm of magic and/or were intended to postulate a historical headstart at a time when this could not yet be checked archaeologically.

    This may belong to the time of the Greek version of the Torah (Septuagint; 2nd c. BCE) when, in Egyptian Alexandria, powerful Greeks argued with intimidated Jews about whether Moses came before Homer or vice versa.

    Most of the dating of the Bible before Hellenism is untenable.

    But this pious numerology must not result in the substance of the incorrectly-dated stories also being thrown away.

    Many Biblical stories about politics and disasters allow a more precise reconstruction of the past.

    We need them urgently, as much for a reliable historiography of Israel as for a correct understanding of the history of the rest of the world.

    A rough overview of the near and far neighbours of the EXODUS events shall conclude this text.


    [Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

    Bibliography
    -Albright, W. F. (1920), “Menes and Naram-Sin“, The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 6, no. 2, 89-98

    -Assmann, J. (2014), From Akhenaten to Moses: Ancient Egypt and Religious Change, Oxford: Oxford University Press; View in Google Books

    -Dever, (2001), What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Aracheology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel, Grand Rapids/Michigan & Cambridge/UK: William B. Eerdmans

    -Finkelstein, I., Silberman, N. A. (2002), The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, New York: Touchstone

    -Heinsohn, G. (1991), “Who were the Hyksos?”, in Organizing Committee/ S. Curto et al., ed., Sesto Congresso Internazionale di Egittologia etc. Abstracts of Papers, Turin: Organizing Secretariat, 208-209

    -Heinsohn, G. (1996), Assyrerkönige gleich Perserherrscher: Die Assyrienfunde bestätigen das Achämenidenreich [Assyrian Great kings as alter egos of Persian Great Kings. The Assyrian finds confirm the imperial dimensions of the Akhaemenids], München-Gräfelfing: Mantis

    -Heinsohn, G. (2005), “Phantom Periods and Astronomical Retro-calculation”, lecture at the Toronto-Meeting, June 20-30, Toronto/Ontario, ms.

    -Heinsohn, G. (2006), “Cyaxares: Media’s Great King in Egypt, Assyria & Iran“; http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/History/madha/cyaxares_Egypt_assyria.htm

    -Heinsohn, G. (2007), Die Sumerer gab es nicht: Von den Phantom-Imperien der Lehrbücher zur wirklichen Epochenabfolge in der “Zivilisationswiege” Südmesopotamien, 2nd ed. (19881), Gräfelfing: Mantis

    -Heinsohn, G. (2018), “Enigmas of 3000 to 300 BC“, https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/

    -Heinsohn, G., Illig, H. (1997), Wann lebten die Pharaonen?, 2nd edition, Gräfelfing: Mantis

    -Jacobs, P.F. (2000), “Jericho“, in D.N. Freedman, A.C. Myers, eds., Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible, Amsterdam: AUP, 689-691

    -Kenyon, K. (1957), Digging up Jericho, New York: Praeger

    -Schaeffer, C.F. (1948), Stratigraphie comparée et chronologie de L‘ Asie occidentale, Oxford: Oxforf University Press

    -Landström, B. (1970), Die Schiffe der Pharaonen: Altägyptische Schiffsbaukunft von 4000 bis 600 v. Chr., München: Bertelsmann

    -Weiss, H. et al. (1993), “The Genesis and Collapse of Third Millennium North Mesopotamian Civilization”, Science, vol. 261 (5124), 995–1004

    -Winzeler, P. (2017), Der „Mescha-Stein“: Die unerkannte hebräische Inschrift Davids? [20091], http://www.systematischetheologie.un..._stele_ger.pdf
    Editorial Assistance
    Thanks go to Clark Whelton (New York/NY) and Tim Cullen (Malaga/Spain).
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  32. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (11th August 2018), BMJ (23rd August 2018), Foxie Loxie (11th August 2018), Jayke (11th August 2018), seko (5th May 2019), Sophocles (11th August 2018)

  33. Link to Post #57
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    Where it - apparently - all started: the so-called "garden" of Eden:

    Borrowed from here (<---)
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  34. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (18th October 2018), Bill Ryan (2nd November 2018), Flash (2nd November 2018), onawah (18th October 2018), Sophocles (26th November 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018)

  35. Link to Post #58
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    I would recommend this research essay to get an idea of how celestial phenomena got twisted and mythologized from broken up comets and resulting rains of meteorites into winged serpents and dragons spitting deadly rockets and bombing earth's inhabitants:


    Witches, Comets and Planetary Cataclysms

    Laura Knight-Jadczyk Sott.net
    Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:59 UTC


    © Dot Connector Magazine

    When you think of Halloween, what is the first image that comes to mind? I took a little informal poll among my friends, family and associates. Guess what image came in first? Jack-o-lanterns! Bet you thought I was going to say "witches". Well, I sure thought it would be witches, but they only came in a close second!..

    When I think of Halloween, I think of grade-school art projects where we cut out silhouettes of witches to paste onto large yellow moons made of construction paper. The witch was always on a broom with her black dress flying in the wind, accompanied by a black cat sitting on the back of the broom. I wondered even then how the cat managed to stay on and why anybody would think that straddling a broomstick as a seat would be even remotely comfortable.

    But, there you have it: in a significant way, Halloween is associated with witches, evil women who consort with the devil and do evil things like caging lost children to fatten them up and eat them, giving poisoned apples and setting up spinning wheels to poison abandoned or hapless princesses who are only looking for true love.

    The word 'witch' comes to us from the Old English wicca, which was a masculine word meaning 'wizard'. The feminine version was wicce, pronounced 'witch'. This came from Middle High German wicken , which meant to 'bewitch', and even older, from Old High German wīh which meant 'holy'. The dictionary tells us that a witch is someone who has malignant supernatural powers and practices spell casting with the aid of a devil or familiar. It also refers to an ugly old woman, or a beautiful young woman. The word 'witch' is an epithet for any woman who isn't inclined to be a doormat, flung to the floor by any individual who wants her to be subject to his or her will. Last of all, a witch is a practitioner of Wicca.


    Gerald Gardner.

    Wicca is a British construct created by an amateur anthropologist named Gerald Gardner who claimed to have had many interesting encounters and experiences with the occult and paranormal throughout his life. At one point, he claimed to have doctoral degrees from the Universities of Singapore and Toulouse, which was a lie. He claimed that he was initiated into a New Forest coven of witches which was the survival of a pre-Christian pagan witch cult. This alleged ancient coven has been shown by subsequent research to have been formed in the early 20th century and its ideas were based mainly on folk magic and the theories of Margaret Murray, so again, his honesty is rather suspect.

    Gardner incorporated elements from Freemasonry, ceremonial magic, and the imaginings of Aleister Crowley and others. Most of what one sees when carefully examining these elements that combined to form modern Wicca bears no relationship whatsoever to the ancient religions as they can be discerned by deep study. Rather, these elements are likely more influenced by taking the descriptions of the persecutors of witches during the Inquisition as a guideline, instead of realizing that they were the defamatory falsifications of psychopaths. It is more likely that those accused of witchcraft during the witch persecutions were following beliefs akin to those of the Cathars - dualism - or even more ancient dualistic concepts. They also likely employed ancient knowledge handed down from Paleolithic shamanic systems which had little to nothing to do with 'ceremonial magic', spells or a 'liberal code of morality'. Unfortunately, neither Gardner nor Crowley had access to modern scientific archaeological studies from which one can actually infer something about the abilities, beliefs and practices of our truly remarkable ancestors.

    My work is all about following the lines of Pagan/shamanistic ideas and teachings back to the Ice Ages - the cave painters, the Northern European origins - to find the most original, fundamental, common foundation of all of them. The idea that there was a time when man was directly in contact with the Ce­lestial Beings is at the root of many of the myths of the Golden Age. Myths tell us of a time when the 'gods withdrew' from man­kind. As a result of some 'happening', i.e., 'The Fall', when the communications were broken off and the Celestial Beings withdrew to the highest heavens.

    But the myths also tell us that there were still certain people who were able to 'ascend' and commune with the gods on behalf of their tribe or family. Through them, contact was maintained with the 'guiding spirits' of the group. The beliefs and practices of present day shamans are a survival of a profoundly modified and even corrupted and degenerated remnant of this archaic technology of concrete communications between heaven and earth. This shamanism seems to have been born in Western Europe with the arrival of Cro-Magnon man and the myths seem to have been redacted repeatedly until we have numerous claims of occult secrets of various sorts revived by this or that person, including Wicca. If that is the case, then true 'witchcraft' is really shamanism, aka Druidism, and even more, as we shall see.

    Mircea Eliade writes:

    [...]

    ...continue here (<---)


    Full article: https://www.sott.net/article/217194-...ary-Cataclysms


    PS: Check this post for the main celestial event: Re: Bolides, Comets, Asteroids, Meteors And Falling Skies
    Last edited by Hervé; 4th November 2018 at 14:05.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  36. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (2nd November 2018), Billy (26th November 2018), seko (5th May 2019), Sophocles (26th November 2018), Tintin (2nd November 2018), Valerie Villars (2nd November 2018)

  37. Link to Post #59
    Avalon Member gord's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th October 2015
    Location
    Where the truth hurts, but refuses to die
    Age
    56
    Posts
    177
    Thanks
    2,353
    Thanked 794 times in 165 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    A new Russell Gmirkin interview popped up Nov 16:


    RUSSELL GMIRKIN LIVE: GREEK INFLUENCE ON THE HEBREW BIBLE

    Those who must silence others for speaking the truth cannot be innocent.

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to gord For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (26th November 2018), Billy (26th November 2018), Hervé (26th November 2018), seko (5th May 2019), Sophocles (26th November 2018)

  39. Link to Post #60
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,513
    Thanks
    58,580
    Thanked 92,910 times in 15,217 posts

    Default Re: Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

    New study calls into question the history of Israel

    By Paul Antonopoulos On May 5, 2019


    TEL AVIV – A new investigation into the wake of Mesha suggests that King Balak, the Moabite leader who according to the Bible tried to curse the Israelites, may have been a historical figure. This has implications in the chronology of the history of ancient Israel.

    The study published in the Journal of the Institute of Archeology of the University of Tel Aviv and conducted by the archaeologist Israel Finkelstein and the historian Nadav Naaman, both from the University of Tel Aviv, together with the expert in the Bible, Thomas Romer from the University of Lausanne in France, proposes a new reading of one of the darkest sections of the Mesha Stele.

    The research is based on new high-resolution images of a photograph of the Stela, taken shortly after its discovery and which, in some cases, has preserved the old letters better than the original inscription.

    This is because local residents broke the stone shortly after it was found and, although most of it was assembled again, some parts are still missing. Currently, the stone is in the Louvre Museum, France.

    According to previous studies, one of the names engraved on the stone was that of the House of David, royal dynasty that ruled over the Kingdom of Israel.

    However, the new analysis refutes this interpretation and proposes that the name located in an unreadable fragment on line 31, is that of King Balak, rival of Mesha (who named the Stele) for the supremacy of Moab. The Moabites were a Semitic people who lived east of the Dead Sea, in present-day Jordan and who clashed several times with the people of Israel.

    This study is important because it allows us to understand the territory of Judah and Moab and their expansion processes, added to the history of Jerusalem in the 9th century BC, Finkelstein explained.

    In the Bible, Balak appears much earlier in the history of the Hebrews, apparently centuries before the time of Mesha.

    According to the sacred scriptures, forty years after the Exodus, when the Israelites, still led by Moses, emerge from the desert on their way to the Promised Land, they pass through Moab. Scared by the great multitude, King Balak hires a prophet and seer named Balaam to curse the Hebrews.

    If the new interpretation of the Mesha Stele is correct, this would mean that Balak really existed. However, it would also show that the biblical episode in which it appears is anachronistic and mythological in nature.

    It would be another confirmation that the sacred text was written centuries after the alleged events it narrates and that its authors have a penchant for taking known historical figures and then projecting them at a different time and turning them into stories and parables for their own theory.

    According to the researchers, by leaving aside the reading of the House of David, we discard the fact that the kingdom of Judah has conquered that of Moab, which may be significant for the ancient history of Israel.

    The black basalt stone known as the wake of Mesha is a monument that was discovered 150 years ago in the desert of Transjordan. It has been an important source of information about the history of ancient Israel and has served to debate the accuracy of the Bible.

    In the text, dating from the second half of the ninth century BC. C., the Moabite king Mesha boasts of defeating the Northern Kingdom of Israel and its deity, YHWH. This is the first extra biblical reference to the tetragrammaton, or YHWH, the name with which Yahweh appears in the Old Testament.

    The inscription also attests to the historicity of several biblical figures, including Mesha himself (listed in 2 Kings 3: 4), as well as the Israeli king Omri and his son Ahab.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  40. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Satori (5th May 2019), seko (5th May 2019), Star Mariner (7th May 2019)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts