Is Enlightenment An Illusion?

[shaberon]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)

Could it be that this whole life experience is actually just for the opportunity to die properly?

Not really, but, in terms of complexity or difficulty, then yes the death thing is some 90% of it.

The same thing happens during sleep, so, the opportunity to sleep properly or enlightened sleep would be the first barrier. If we did it right, there would be no break or discontinuity.

Enlightenment, the word, is just an arbitrary 19th century translation of Bodhi. And so we would be better off just to turn to Bodhi in its original context. Buddhism is also some arbitrary projected word, what Buddha taught is Marga, which means Path. Then we would almost automatically reach the conclusion, he means Path to Fully Awakened Bodhi, which is true but he also means Fully Expanded, like Vishnu. In other words, it's always incomplete until reaching that equal to infinity state. Along with that, he does not intend a conventional idea of Bodhi in that it removes you from reincarnation, but instead, refers to Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi or Unexcelled Perfect Manifest Bodhi, which continues manifesting in world systems.

Marga is not a Maya or illusion but is the antidote to them. Illusions are mental factors which can be removed. If we follow that, then it leads to pretty specific instructions on how to die. From experience I would say what they're talking about means exactly what it says. By experience I mean Yoga, which, I don't believe is a religion, and so Marga is not exactly a religion. Yoga is a verifiable process like a science or something but the only measuring device or camera is a human being. And so there are limitless, inconceivable projects of other kinds, but, the claim that something is closer to reality is directly tied to defeat of death, or reality = deathless could be a way to put it, with the inconvenience that "we" are the illusion, the brain and mental factors are, since Bodhi lives in the heart.

[O Donna]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by O Donna (here)
Seems for one to perform things like driving safely there must be suspension of disbelief otherwise, what cliff, what abyss?

Common wakeful life and suspension of disbelief are invariably linked.

I disagree somewhat ...

Taking Saṃsāra into account, I would not expect anything less.

Rabbit hole, what rabbit hole?

[greybeard]

Who is there to disagree with?
So says the Advaita police.

The left hand slaps the right without knowing!!!!

C

[XelNaga]

Dear friends,

Almost everyone who speaks about enlightenment speaks of it as a last step in spiritual journey. Like, you reach enlightenment and you're done, you've won the game of life. But those who have reached it, or at least they say they did, they are still here, still human, still living here with all of us.

So, what if enlightenment is not the last step, but actually the first step in our true spiritual journey? No matter what spiritual practice we perform, what we believe in, how we live our life and how we look at life, we are still imperfect human beings with faulty egos, desires, crawings, random negative thoughts, we get pissed and annoyed from time to time, we do something "un-spiritual", we intentionally or unintentionally hurt someone, pollute our planet, etc.

What if, in order to truly become spiritual person and to start living a truly spiritual life, you first need to get enlightened?
You get enlightened, you see the big picture, you see what is the truth and what is true meaning of life, and then your proper spiritual life starts.

Hmm...

[Pam]

Posted by XelNaga (here)
Dear friends,

Almost everyone who speaks about enlightenment speaks of it as a last step in spiritual journey. Like, you reach enlightenment and you're done, you've won the game of life. But those who have reached it, or at least they say they did, they are still here, still human, still living here with all of us.

So, what if enlightenment is not the last step, but actually the first step in our true spiritual journey? No matter what spiritual practice we perform, what we believe in, how we live our life and how we look at life, we are still imperfect human beings with faulty egos, desires, crawings, random negative thoughts, we get pissed and annoyed from time to time, we do something "un-spiritual", we intentionally or unintentionally hurt someone, pollute our planet, etc.

What if, in order to truly become spiritual person and to start living a truly spiritual life, you first need to get enlightened?
You get enlightened, you see the big picture, you see what is the truth and what is true meaning of life, and then your proper spiritual life starts.

Hmm...

I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be closer to the truth than any of us realize. Great post XelNaga.

[greybeard]

Posted by peterpam (here)

Posted by XelNaga (here)
Dear friends,

Almost everyone who speaks about enlightenment speaks of it as a last step in spiritual journey. Like, you reach enlightenment and you're done, you've won the game of life. But those who have reached it, or at least they say they did, they are still here, still human, still living here with all of us.

So, what if enlightenment is not the last step, but actually the first step in our true spiritual journey? No matter what spiritual practice we perform, what we believe in, how we live our life and how we look at life, we are still imperfect human beings with faulty egos, desires, crawings, random negative thoughts, we get pissed and annoyed from time to time, we do something "un-spiritual", we intentionally or unintentionally hurt someone, pollute our planet, etc.

What if, in order to truly become spiritual person and to start living a truly spiritual life, you first need to get enlightened?
You get enlightened, you see the big picture, you see what is the truth and what is true meaning of life, and then your proper spiritual life starts.

Hmm...

I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be closer to the truth than any of us realize. Great post XelNaga.

Both the late Dr David Hawkins and Eckhart Tolle inffered, that to higher "ones" enlightenment in this world might be seen as kindergarten.
Dr Hawkins, who's books are excellent, likened the process to varying levels of energy--like electricity.
The level of enlightenment roughly 600 --Archangels 40 thousand ---Creator beyond measurement.
So the level of enlightenment here seems complete, there is God realization (Though even here there are level of enlightenment)
We are One with the energy of "God" Brahman--etc.
It is beyond the mind to understand fully.
We are the totality all of it --everything within one molecule in our body--yet!! there is more to it--beyond our capacity to know.
https://www.flfe.net/dr-hawkins-map-consciousness/
Chris

[shaberon]

Posted by XelNaga (here)
What if, in order to truly become spiritual person and to start living a truly spiritual life, you first need to get enlightened?
You get enlightened, you see the big picture, you see what is the truth and what is true meaning of life, and then your proper spiritual life starts.

Yes, I think that is a major difference in the translation or linguistic difference. In the original term, Bodhi, you "get" it first, and then all you can do is increasing degrees of strength to infinity. To extinguish all those factors that keep coming back is not particularly easy. One must try one's best. It is not really spiritual just to be alive, but when you start to tackle how your self failures are the main obstacle, then it can be. The end of this usually painful cleaning process is never, for all intents and purposes in this life, I wouldn't expect it to stop.

There are examples of people who have left their body and never come back and this is not what we are trying to achieve.

[Rich]

I like what Jürgen Ziewe said, you are never done because it is infinite....when you reach high levels of consciousness, supposedly it's just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg.
Well, if I understand ACIM correctly, we are done when all have returned back to God...how long will this take? Who knows, maybe millions or trillions of years.

Sometimes a teacher of God may have a brief experience of direct union with God. In this world, it is almost impossible that this endure.
It can, perhaps, be won after much devotion and dedication, and then be maintained for much of the time on earth.
But this is so rare that it cannot be considered a realistic goal. If it happens, so be it. If it does not happen, so be it as well.
All worldly states must be illusory. If God were reached directly in sustained awareness, the body would not be long maintained.
Those who have laid the body down merely to extend their helpfulness to those remaining behind are few indeed.
And they need helpers who are still in bondage and still asleep, so that by their awakening can God's Voice be heard.
-Manual for Teachers Section 26

[Rich]

Posted by O Donna (here)

Posted by Rich (here)
Perhaps that's already one of the biggest steps, getting to the point of not knowing.

Can one un-see what has already been seen?

Sry Donna, im not sure what you are trying to ask/say.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Yes, enlightenment is an illusion. Like they say:

Before enlightenment, carry water. After enlightenment, carry water. No dif.

Enlightenment is over-rated. In fact, it is quite possible that many are enlightened and don't even know it.

[O Donna]

Posted by Rich (here)

Posted by O Donna (here)

Posted by Rich (here)
Perhaps that's already one of the biggest steps, getting to the point of not knowing.

Can one un-see what has already been seen?

Sry Donna, im not sure what you are trying to ask/say.

No worry, rhetorical in nature.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Catch-22: enlightenment is an illusion.

How do you take your ouroboros?

[Peter UK]

Posted by Jhonie (here)
Sometimes I think the only way out of here is to believe in nothing, nothing at all. Some people sit and meditate for years and years.

Maybe reality becomes so experiential that beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Peter UK]

Posted by XelNaga (here)
Dear friends,

Almost everyone who speaks about enlightenment speaks of it as a last step in spiritual journey.

Hmm...

Last step!!!??? Last step!!!???

I didn't know I had a last step in me.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Peter UK (here)

Posted by Jhonie (here)
Sometimes I think the only way out of here is to believe in nothing, nothing at all. Some people sit and meditate for years and years.

Maybe reality becomes so experiental that beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Not having beliefs at all (maybe just a couple base ones), and at the same time considering and trying to "make true", at least as a thought, everything, before writing it off, has probably been one of my most valuable tools.