Magnesium BiCarbonate Water - a guide to make

[Chester]

Hi Bob... can the Mag Bi Carb help folks who sometimes experience migraines?

Or do you have another suggested remedy?

[Bob]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Hi Bob... can the Mag Bi Carb help folks who sometimes experience migraines?

Or do you have another suggested remedy?

Hi Sam - on migraines I've seen that usually there is something going on with the gums/nerves/teeth around the "eye teeth". Possibly using a waterpick and checking for teeth issues, or gum issues would be good, specifically on both sides of the lateral incisors, both upper and lower, the canines upper and lower, and first premolar.

These nerves can become irritated and cause all sorts of pains, ringing in the ears, optical sensations, on and on.. Magnesium may be useful to help the nerves and cells, but I would think checking for tooth/gum issues would be a good idea. Every time I get a migraine, either the pulsing pain, or the weird optical geometry migraines, there was usually something going on with the gums, usually some trapped food particle which evoked a gum inflammation..

[conk]

Posted by Bob (here)

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Hi Bob... can the Mag Bi Carb help folks who sometimes experience migraines?

Or do you have another suggested remedy?

Hi Sam - on migraines I've seen that usually there is something going on with the gums/nerves/teeth around the "eye teeth". Possibly using a waterpick and checking for teeth issues, or gum issues would be good, specifically on both sides of the lateral incisors, both upper and lower, the canines upper and lower, and first premolar.

These nerves can become irritated and cause all sorts of pains, ringing in the ears, optical sensations, on and on.. Magnesium may be useful to help the nerves and cells, but I would think checking for tooth/gum issues would be a good idea. Every time I get a migraine, either the pulsing pain, or the weird optical geometry migraines, there was usually something going on with the gums, usually some trapped food particle which evoked a gum inflammation..

There have been several stories in the alt media that relate bad bacteria and lack of beneficial bacteria in the mouth to migraines. The colon isn't the only place we need good colonies of bacteria.

[Jeepney]

hi! cant find pure sparkling water here in my area. can i substitute sparkling mineral water just like the brand pellegrino? that's what i often see here in the supermarkets.

thanks!
-J

[Bob]

Posted by Jeepney (here)
hi! cant find pure sparkling water here in my area. can i substitute sparkling mineral water just like the brand pellegrino? that's what i often see here in the supermarkets.

thanks!
-J

Hia, you could try. What one wants to minimize is calcium present in the sparkling water. If you can get a litre size of the sparkling water, then the 3 tablespoon fulls of the Magnesium Hydroxide could be added to see if it completely changes from milky color (in the mineral water), to clear after about 2 hours.

Be sure to shake after adding the milk of magnesia (magnesium hydroxide), and shake and shake.. The bottle should feel noticeably colder after shaking, and all "fizz" will go away after it gets clear.

If it doesn't get clear, there was not enough CO2 gas in the sparkling mineral water. In that case try reducing the amount of magnesium hydroxide by 1/2, and repeat the procedure with a fresh bottle of sparkling water. The ratio normally is 3 tablespoon full of magnesium hydroxide (pure, not flavored, no additives), to one litre of chilled sparkling water (seltzer).

The alternative to all that is to obtain a Soda Stream system and make your own CO2 charged water (Seltzer water). Thanks for asking !

[Jeepney]

thank you so much Bob!

i think i should try your suggestion to a smaller amount of sparkling mineral water i could find here at the supermarkets. i have access to 6 nearby hehehe.

oh and btw, i coudnt find MOM too here! what i found is the Magnesium Sulfate (aka Epsom Salt). will that be ok? I saw a video in youtube of an old chap doing this.

thanks again,

-J

[Bob]

Hi -J

Epsom salts, Magnesium sulfate is a different chemical substance, and there is a different thread about that on the Forum.

If you want to try going to a pharmacy and asking of they have pure magnesium hydroxide, that may be an option, else such is available on the internet for mail order.

Page 1 on this thread talks about magnesium sulfate, and some of the differences. The sulfate version is made with sulfuric acid, which I am not partial to at all.

The magnesium hydroxide, is a form of "water'd oxide", where there is no "acid" involved.

The substance which activates the cellular mitochondria is the "BI-Carbonate" form of magnesium. The bicarbonate channel is what this thread has been focusing on. Other folks have wanted to just experiment with the use of "magnesium" and that's perfectly OK to do so, but this thread has focused on magnesium bicarbonate and how to make it.

Here is a thread on the forum which asks Which form of Magnesium is best to take

If you follow admin Paul's threads about the best water to make, that would be a great reference too.

In this thread what we have looked at is how to convert Magnesium Hydroxide into Magnesium BiCarbonate (to activate the bicarbonate channel of the mitochondria). <--- This link is a good read.

Amazon dot com has listings for pure magnesium hydroxide powder which might be able to be used instead of 3 tablespoons full of liquid. One could work out a conversion of dry powder to come up with the right concentration.

[Jeepney]

Posted by Bob (here)
Hi -J

Epsom salts, Magnesium sulfate is a different chemical substance, and there is a different thread about that on the Forum.

If you want to try going to a pharmacy and asking of they have pure magnesium hydroxide, that may be an option, else such is available on the internet for mail order.

Page 1 on this thread talks about magnesium sulfate, and some of the differences. The sulfate version is made with sulfuric acid, which I am not partial to at all.

The magnesium hydroxide, is a form of "water'd oxide", where there is no "acid" involved.

The substance which activates the cellular mitochondria is the "BI-Carbonate" form of magnesium. The bicarbonate channel is what this thread has been focusing on. Other folks have wanted to just experiment with the use of "magnesium" and that's perfectly OK to do so, but this thread has focused on magnesium bicarbonate and how to make it.

Here is a thread on the forum which asks Which form of Magnesium is best to take

If you follow admin Paul's threads about the best water to make, that would be a great reference too.

In this thread what we have looked at is how to convert Magnesium Hydroxide into Magnesium BiCarbonate (to activate the bicarbonate channel of the mitochondria). <--- This link is a good read.

Amazon dot com has listings for pure magnesium hydroxide powder which might be able to be used instead of 3 tablespoons full of liquid. One could work out a conversion of dry powder to come up with the right concentration.

Thanks Bob for these!
a lot of reading ha ha!!!

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Bob (here)
Amazon dot com has listings for pure magnesium hydroxide powder which might be able to be used instead of 3 tablespoons full of liquid. One could work out a conversion of dry powder to come up with the right concentration.

Ah - I hadn't noticed this until now - thanks - one more item to add to my Amazon shopping list.

Each tablespoon of "GoodSense(tm)" Milk of Magnesia (MOM) has 1200 mg of active ingredient, so 3 tablespoons would have 3600 mg of magnesium hydroxide.

Each teaspoon of "BulkSupplements(tm)" Pure Magnesium Hydroxide Powder has 4146 mg of magnesium hydroxide.

So to get 3600 mg of magnesium hydroxide using the powder, one would use 3600/4146 of a teaspon, which is about 7/8 of one teaspoon of the powder (a little more than 3/4 of a tsp, or a little less than an entire tsp).

[Bob]

Great improvement on the quality of the "mix"..

Instead of pouring directly the magnesium hydroxide into the 1 litre bottle of chilled seltzer.. first pour out 2 ounces of the seltzer into a cool measuring cup (hot causes out-gassing and we want to preserve the CO2 from loss). (momentarily close the cap on the seltzer bottle)

Then add in the 3 TableSpoons of magnesium hydroxide into the measuring cup and stir very well until there are no solids.. Re-open the cap on the seltzer bottle.

And now pour back into the seltzer bottle the pre-dissolved mixture. Close the cap well.

Shake for about 5 minutes, and note now that the bottle collapses very quickly as the CO2 is combined with the mixture to create the magnesium bicarbonate.

Inside of 15 minutes, the bottle is "clear" indicating the reaction is complete. This method appears to create a smaller particle sized magnesium bicarbonate as a result of seeing a much clearer bottle of liquid in a shorter amount of time. Store the bottle and liquid chilled.

report - if I don't use the magnesium bicarbonate and work my muscles HARD, there is a potential to have a shortage of the bicarbonate of magnesium and then there can be muscle spasms, or leg cramps. The solution still is to not use pain killers but to drink 1 glass of cool well filtered water with 1 to 1 1/2 ounces of the magnesium bicarbonate added and drink that within about 15 minutes.. Within an hour it appears that the majority of the 'damage' is starting to correct, and the pain highly subsides from a muscle spasm..

So biggest long term benefit for me are muscles that don't spasm out and get painful.

[fourty-two]

why not use BulkSupplements Pure Magnesium Carbonate (Micronized) Powder (250 grams)
by BulkSupplements available on Amazon?

[Perdido]

Posted by Bob (here)
Great improvement on the quality of the "mix"..

Instead of pouring directly the magnesium hydroxide into the 1 litre bottle of chilled seltzer.. first pour out 2 ounces of the seltzer into a cool measuring cup (hot causes out-gassing and we want to preserve the CO2 from loss). (momentarily close the cap on the seltzer bottle)

Then add in the 3 TableSpoons of magnesium hydroxide into the measuring cup and stir very well until there are no solids.. Re-open the cap on the seltzer bottle.

And now pour back into the seltzer bottle the pre-dissolved mixture. Close the cap well.

Shake for about 5 minutes, and note now that the bottle collapses very quickly as the CO2 is combined with the mixture to create the magnesium bicarbonate.

Inside of 15 minutes, the bottle is "clear" indicating the reaction is complete. This method appears to create a smaller particle sized magnesium bicarbonate as a result of seeing a much clearer bottle of liquid in a shorter amount of time. Store the bottle and liquid chilled.

report - if I don't use the magnesium bicarbonate and work my muscles HARD, there is a potential to have a shortage of the bicarbonate of magnesium and then there can be muscle spasms, or leg cramps. The solution still is to not use pain killers but to drink 1 glass of cool well filtered water with 1 to 1 1/2 ounces of the magnesium bicarbonate added and drink that within about 15 minutes.. Within an hour it appears that the majority of the 'damage' is starting to correct, and the pain highly subsides from a muscle spasm..

So biggest long term benefit for me are muscles that don't spasm out and get painful.

* * *

For muscle cramps... researching I came across the following.

Besides the Magnesium Bi-Carbonate Water.... take 1/4 tsp of Taurine and 1/4 tsp of L-Arginine in a shot of water.

When I first tried it, the muscle spasms I had for several months in my lower rib cage stopped within 10 minutes.. then one day they came back.. I thought.. Now what did I do? I check my supplements and realized I had forgotten to take the L-Arginine. Again within 10 minutes the spasms stopped.

Weight lifters take L-Arginine, an amino acid. But they also take L-Citrulline, another amino acid. I never really knew why, even though I had used L-Arginine weightlifting. Finally I searched and found that L-Arginine makes Nitric Oxide... that last 30-60 minutes... but taking L-Citrulline with it.. recycles it so that it last 24-30 hours ! The ratio is 5 grams of L-Arginine to 1 Gram of L-Citrulline.

Of interest Viagra is just L-Arginine.. at a higher dosage.

[Perdido]

For endurance... besides Mag Bicarbonate Water.. I came across an Endocrinologist who mentioned that one loses Magnesium, Sodium and Potassium wen one sweats of urinates.

He had an Adrenal Cocktail, that I originally was the poster to on a popular Magnesium Facebook Forum...

4 oz of Orange Juice
1/4 tsp of Cream of Tartar (which is actually Potassium)
1/4 tsp of Ground up Sea Salt.

So to test this.. along with taking Mag Bicarbonate Water ....I happen to be clearing scrubs and trees from the fence line of a couple of foreclosures I bought. Working by myself in almost 100 degree heat for 6 weeks.. I filled a county dumpster each week... and as never tired. I am a firm believer in both these supplement now. I keep 2 bottles of the Carbonated Mag water in my refrigerator at all times.. and often drink 3/4 bottle a day when I am working in the Florida sun and heat. I share this info and supplements with labors working for me too.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

PS: I understand those with poor kidneys can not take Magnesium Bicarbonate Water.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Perdido (here)
PS: I understand those with poor kidneys can not take Magnesium Bicarbonate Water.

Do you have any further details or references or sources for this? I'm not heard this claimed before, so would like to have a better idea how credible it is and if it's true, what's the reason.

[Perdido]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Perdido (here)
PS: I understand those with poor kidneys can not take Magnesium Bicarbonate Water.

Do you have any further details or references or sources for this? I'm not heard this claimed before, so would like to have a better idea how credible it is and if it's true, what's the reason.

It is best to know how to search for the answer... and references yourself... This is really the key to using the internet for research... I find 90% of what I am seeking the following way.. I take lots of notes.. but one can never have enough notes on all matters....

USE the + Sign !!!!

The best way to find this is to search the internet for it like this..
Magnesium Bicarbonate Water + Poor Kidney

Or a better specific way is this

Magnesium Bicarbonate Water + Avoid Poor Kidney

One link that turned up was this...

https://academic.oup.com/ckj/article...Stages-3-and-4

Quote..
Abstract
The kidney has a vital role in magnesium homeostasis and, although the renal handling of magnesium is highly adaptable, this ability deteriorates when renal function declines significantly. In moderate chronic kidney disease (CKD), increases in the fractional excretion of magnesium largely compensate for the loss of glomerular filtration rate to maintain normal serum magnesium levels. However, in more advanced CKD (as creatinine clearance falls <30 mL/min), this compensatory mechanism becomes inadequate such that overt hypermagnesaemia develops frequently in patients with creatinine clearances <10 mL/min. Dietary calcium and magnesium may affect the intestinal uptake of each other, though results are conflicting, and likewise the role of vitamin D on intestinal magnesium absorption is somewhat uncertain. In patients undergoing dialysis, the effect of various magnesium and calcium dialysate concentrations has been investigated.....

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Perdido (here)
te Water + Poor Kidney[/B]

Or a better specific way is this

Magnesium Bicarbonate Water + Avoid Poor Kidney

One link that turned up was this...

https://academic.oup.com/ckj/article...Stages-3-and-4

I would have never found this that way ... for a reason that may surprise you.

I would have looked for something specific to Magnesium Bicarbonate Water, and I would have looked for some reason why someone with (moderately or severely) poor kidneys should not take it at all, as your earlier comment suggested.

This article you reference says that someone with very poor kidneys (not just poor), must be careful with their magnesium balances, due to their kidneys limited ability to excrete magnesium through their kidneys.

The article's abstract makes no specific mention of Magnesium Bicarbonate, and draws no conclusion that magnesium, in that form or any other, should be entirely eliminated.

This demonstrates why I asked you to provide such background ... so that myself and others could chase down a source for your comment and confirm (or in this case, refine), your observation.

References are an important part of a good discussion. They help avoid propagating misunderstandings ... as we can see here. It is better one person provide such a reference, then ten readers have to go searching and guessing (perhaps incorrectly), as well as a hundred more readers not search (we all have to choose where to focus our limited time), and be misled.

[Perdido]

If you read the entire article you will see it is very specific at what levels Magnesium impacts the Kidneys. There is no scientific definition of poor and very poor. My purpose in posting the note is to make people with Kidney PROBLEMS AWARE... Those are the ones who should be motivated to research more. I am not and will not provide specific medical advise. So I would prefer vague warnings, instead of me trying to be specific about what the limits are for them. Few things are absolute in medicine or supplements. Everyone is different.. how could you expect some specific warning? Most warnings on labels are not specific.

I stand by my position as originally posted.

[Bob]

Apparently there is an accidental derailing on this thread - I will refer to the use of the + sign mentioned above in a POST. When one does NOT PUT SUCH in quotes, one then will bring up immense erroneous (data which is not specific to the point(s) discussed).. Such as "MAGNESIUM OXIDE" can be an incorrect substance, as could "MAGNESIUM SULFATE", or "MAGNESIUM SULFITE", or "MAGNESIUM CARBONATE" (quite chemically different than "magnesium BICARBONATE").

Generally there is no literature that says "MAGNESIUM BICARBONATE" causes problems in the amounts discussed in this thread. There is literature that says MAGNESIUM and they are inspecific as to the chemical compound that the magnesium is associated with.

That is the problem with making a broad sweeping statement about CHEMICALLY different substances being the 'same' in action - they are NOT the same. One specifically trained in chemistry knows this very very well.

It is like broadly saying ALL MUSIC CREATES EAR DAMAGE. If one does a search for +MUSIC and Ear damage, one can find that, and obviously mistake that MUSIC CAUSES EAR DAMAGE.. That is the problem with haphazard search engine searches. Music at 200 decibels can most definitely evoke ear damage...

This thread goes specifically into the "BICARBONATE" channel of the mitochondria and the magnesium bound to the "BICARBONATE". It also discusses damage from CALCIUM. There are numerous schools of thought that CALCIUM is more dangerous than magnesium, such as "CALCIUM OXALATE"..

So STAYING on topic, this thread is about "MAGNESIUM BICARBONATE", not "magnesium" in general.

Thanks Paul for asking the other poster to clarify. I think I clarified this a bit further too.

[Bob]

I did another study just 2 days ago in the deep desert, where air temperature was 115 and ground temperature was about 135 (sun absorption on darker patches raised the temp quite high). I brought an optical thermometer.

I deliberately did not use "magnesium bicarbonate water" for 4 days and continued to exert myself in the heat. I didn't hydrate sufficiently, which would have require much more water than I was consuming which was deliberately creating a "KIDNEY ISSUE" (insufficient water intake, plus physical exertion and what would be red blood cell breakdown).

And I accidentally induced then when "frightened" by a specific situation, tachycardia (rapid very fast heartbeat), which did not go away with just sitting down in the shade and "meditating".

THE ONLY THING that restored normal kidney balance, PLUS normal heartbeat was the "magnesium bicarbonate" liquid concentrate which I had with me, within about a minute.

So to me I am not only a "believer" of the effectiveness of "magnesium bicarbonate" to help restore needed bicarbonate channel regulation, I feel it saved my life..

[Bob]

Posted by fourty-two (here)
why not use BulkSupplements Pure Magnesium Carbonate (Micronized) Powder (250 grams)
by BulkSupplements available on Amazon?

There is a CHEMICAL DIFFERENCE with "magnesium CARBONATE" - magnesium CARBONATE is chemically different and is NOT the same substance as the topic of this thread and the substance discussed "magnesium BICarbonate". Magnesium carbonate would not be the same as the "bicarbonate" form. The bicarbonate form can only be made easily as discussed in this thread, in the form of "magnesium bicarbonate water".