Closing the Avalon accounts of two long standing members

[ulli]

Posted by norman (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

........And yes, the word therapist can then easily become the rapist......

Fritz Perls, the founder of Gestalt Therapy, called it "mind f**king".

......If someone drinks water from a river where it enters the sea they can be sure that water is no longer 100% pure,...

The issue here for me is a duality between head and heart.

I think we all know that "spirituality" in this wild and savage world we live in is a much miss used attempt at a definition.

Alchemy, is well known as a practice that tries to make one element of the earth into another. I think a lot about a spirtual alchemy that tries to make a heart orientated matter into a cerebrally orientated matter.

Is that good, or bad?..... I can't be sure, but my gut says it's a false effort and, at best, a waste of time.

That's my fundamental reason to be skeptical around anything intellectual that tries to define something spiritual, never mind something emotional or something emotionally reactive.

What's wrong with such attempts, Norman?
You'd have to do away then with all Internet forums, or class rooms, or most of literature.

Not saying that it's not a false effort, but that depends on the motive behind it.
Each and everything has two applications, one that works and another which other doesn't.
Formal education may train the mind, but is useless if compared to real life experience.
Yet I say we need all.
But always remembering context and consequence.

[Omni]

I'd also like to say I have encountered TIs(similar to MILABS) who paid Simon Parkes money to help them with their targeting. They said nothing happened to help them. I don't think Simon is a professional psychologist, and he does psychology stuff for money(or used to). I don't think he was called out too harshly though. A few may have but most people just didn't seem to care and kept buying everything his obviously sinister contacts say.

Sorry if I sound a little sour, it just really bothered me this man is charging innocent and victimized people money, when in reality he is not helping them in the slightest from what they said ...

I always kept my opinion about the remote healer Avalon group silent. Or any remote healer group for that matter. My opinion is remote healing by way of reiki isn't effective. I wouldn't turn to it if i had a life threatening illness thats for sure. It seems like new age controlled opposition mind control programs to me(I very well could be wrong though).

I've always respected those who attempt to do it, and with the right sponsorship someone may be able to actually remote heal someone with technology(I trust technology can heal cancer for example, but not some new age healer's mind from across the world). But when I think to myself "What would the cabal not want us to do" sitting there imagining healing people with your mind remotely might not quite be it...

[greybeard]

Posted by greybeard (here)
There is a saying.
"If people knew better they would do better"

That may or may not be appropriate to the thread.

Just one way of looking at decision making and the action following which reaps results---is-- if people were fully aware of the repercussions of their actions would they have done what ever they did?

In retrospect how many of us would have acted in a certain way if we were gifted to see every repercussion to self and all others.
Would we have acted the way we did?
Would we have done it differently?
Would we have done it at all?

Comes back to the opening statement.
"If people knew better they would do better"


Chris

When it is seen that people, in the context of "If people knew better they would do better", do as best they can--then unconditional love or at least forgiveness is possible for those hurt. No judgement, taking sides or condoning is necessary.

Ch

[norman]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by norman (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

........And yes, the word therapist can then easily become the rapist......

Fritz Perls, the founder of Gestalt Therapy, called it "mind f**king".

......If someone drinks water from a river where it enters the sea they can be sure that water is no longer 100% pure,...

The issue here for me is a duality between head and heart.

I think we all know that "spirituality" in this wild and savage world we live in is a much miss used attempt at a definition.

Alchemy, is well known as a practice that tries to make one element of the earth into another. I think a lot about a spirtual alchemy that tries to make a heart orientated matter into a cerebrally orientated matter.

Is that good, or bad?..... I can't be sure, but my gut says it's a false effort and, at best, a waste of time.

That's my fundamental reason to be skeptical around anything intellectual that tries to define something spiritual, never mind something emotional or something emotionally reactive.

What's wrong with such attempts, Norman?
You'd have to do away then with all Internet forums, or class rooms, or most of literature.

Not saying that it's not a false effort, but that depends on the motive behind it.
Each and everything has two applications, one that works and another which other doesn't.
Formal education may train the mind, but is useless if compared to real life experience.
Yet I say we need all.
But always remembering context and consequence.

ulli, I'd do away with classrooms and most of literature in a heart beat !

Internet forums are a slightly different kettle of spirits.

They are much more a case of being what you make them. They are potentially "live" communication. Taking them from where they are now to where they might get, is another thing. It's not so much the forums, it's the established 'rules' of how they are. We can't take the rules away, prematurely, they'd fall over a cliff. We can't script them either, they'd die.


You compare formal eduacation with real life. That's a big issue that needs deconstructing a long way down before we can extract much fresh and meaningful fodder for our talking heads to chew on. If you and I were having a comfortable natter in your living room I'm sure we'd get a long way down to it, too. Otherwise, I think my word typing and expressionless text talk are only going to get me in a hole my elders have often told me to stop digging in.

[ulli]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
I'd also like to say I have encountered TIs(similar to MILABS) who paid Simon Parkes money to help them with their targeting. They said nothing happened to help them. I don't think Simon is a professional psychologist, and he does psychology stuff for money(or used to). I don't think he was called out too harshly though. A few may have but most people just didn't seem to care and kept buying everything his obviously sinister contacts say.

Sorry if I sound a little sour, it just really bothered me this man is charging innocent and victimized people money, when in reality he is not helping them in the slightest from what they said ...

I always kept my opinion about the remote healer Avalon group silent. Or any remote healer group for that matter. My opinion is remote healing by way of reiki isn't effective. I wouldn't turn to it if i had a life threatening illness thats for sure. It seems like new age controlled opposition mind control programs to me(I very well could be wrong though).

I've always respected those who attempt to do it, and with the right sponsorship someone may be able to actually remote heal someone with technology(I trust technology can heal cancer for example, but not some new age healer's mind from across the world). But when I think to myself "What would the cabal not want us to do" sitting there imagining healing people with your mind remotely might not quite be it...

There is lots of evidence of quackery. But there is also a ton of witness testimony of amazingly successful recoveries, due to prayer groups. Group healing works better, in my view, than one individual healer, or Reiki.
I've spent decades trying to get to the bottom of these questions, and a certain amount of mystery remains.
My husband is a medical doctor who has seen sudden recoveries, before any medicine was even taken.
Some people are cured the moment they tell the universe they wish to get better.
But back to topic...which is about the self definition of this forum.
The moment anything becomes like an institution, and visible to the greater public,
more care must be given that things are done with the greatest care.

[ulli]

Posted by norman (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by norman (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

........And yes, the word therapist can then easily become the rapist......

Fritz Perls, the founder of Gestalt Therapy, called it "mind f**king".

......If someone drinks water from a river where it enters the sea they can be sure that water is no longer 100% pure,...

The issue here for me is a duality between head and heart.

I think we all know that "spirituality" in this wild and savage world we live in is a much miss used attempt at a definition.

Alchemy, is well known as a practice that tries to make one element of the earth into another. I think a lot about a spirtual alchemy that tries to make a heart orientated matter into a cerebrally orientated matter.

Is that good, or bad?..... I can't be sure, but my gut says it's a false effort and, at best, a waste of time.

That's my fundamental reason to be skeptical around anything intellectual that tries to define something spiritual, never mind something emotional or something emotionally reactive.

What's wrong with such attempts, Norman?
You'd have to do away then with all Internet forums, or class rooms, or most of literature.

Not saying that it's not a false effort, but that depends on the motive behind it.
Each and everything has two applications, one that works and another which other doesn't.
Formal education may train the mind, but is useless if compared to real life experience.
Yet I say we need all.
But always remembering context and consequence.

ulli, I'd do away with classrooms and most of literature in a heart beat !

Internet forums are a slightly different kettle of spirits.

They are much more a case of being what you make them. They are potentially "live" communication. Taking them from where they are now to where they might get, is another thing. It's not so much the forums, it's the established 'rules' of how they are. We can't take the rules away, prematurely, they'd fall over a cliff. We can't script them either, they'd die.


You compare formal eduacation with real life. That's a big issue that needs deconstructing a long way down before we can extract much fresh and meaningful fodder for our talking heads to chew on. If you and I were having a comfortable natter in your living room I'm sure we'd get a long way down to it, too. Otherwise, I think my word typing and expressionless text talk are only going to get me in a hole my elders have often told me to stop digging in.

Things are speeding up, and I'm optimistic, on the whole. I'd also do away with classrooms and most literature, but I'm also against the idea of book burning. Plus I have really good memories of my old classrooms in the sixties, as we had some fabulous teachers, who I am still grateful to. Teaching is a noble profession, if done with heart.

[Jake]

Im so very honored to be a part of this comminity. I consider it a priveledge. People speaking from their hearts and souls is what this place is about.

We have all been honored by Christine and Klaudias presence and we have all gained from what light they brought with them. I am delighted that folks try and feel for Christine as they process this! I wouldn't expect any less from Avalon.

Id like to think that im ahead of the pack in processing this, because we've been having our hearts broken behind the scene for some time now. But the truth is that it hurts!

I feel ashamed! I lament having to tell another grown adult that it is not right to steal! I am a moderator, not a policeman. What Christine has done is far beyond the scope of this discussion forum! I lament having to say that!

When i was going through my divorce, i came home one day after she went to work and gathered a single dufflbag with shirts pants socks and underwear. (Yes, they were mine,, lol..) I didn't bother to know the laws... lo and behold, i was arrested and jailed and prosecuted for breaking and entering and theft!!! ???

So needless to say, (in my most humble opinion) closing Chistines Avalon account with an open discussion as to why,, IS honoring her.. Id never wish jail on someone, but that is where she would be if she lived where i do!!



Embezzling members donations is a crime too! We've banned folks for calling other members names.


Again, if getting banned from an internet discussion forum is her only backlash from her deeds then she made out like a bandit. Pun intended.


Not taking responsibility for ones actions and relying on others to apologies for you is not what i expected! I honestly expected her to come to her senses and make all of this right! If you would have told me a year ago that this would be the state of affairs for Christine, i would NOT have believed you.

She once gave me her definition of personal sovereignty... Watching this makes me feel quite sorry for her...


I have a wee light in my heart that is left on for you, Christine...




As far as MILABS... Nobody knows the damage that has been done!! I won't say anymore about that!



Thank you all for your respectful contributions to this discussion! I know it isn't easy.
Jake

[Marikins]

I

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Jeffrey (here)
Bill, listen to me carefully. As a friend and a brother I am telling you this. This type of thread invites decay. The carcasses of Christine and Claudia's avatars have been laid out in public, inciting gossip and inviting the vultures to come out and pick at the remains. That's fine and all, but there are consequences to things like this. Building up the type of energy that is attracted to stuff like this is unwise. I'm not saying it was on purpose, but it is happening.

I disagree with your premise, vigorously.

Sometimes it is true, as you say, that when person A calls out person B for some misdeed, the real problem lies more with person A's inadequately processed anger.

But sometimes, it is more the other way. Sometimes B should be called out for their misdeeds.

One of the fundamental mechanisms essential to healthy communities is shaming those who have acted dishonorably. I do not accept principles that categorically reject the validity of any such shaming.

I stand firm on my right and duty to support healthy communities, including at times by shaming dishonorable acts.

This is really the crux of the matter, these two positions. Apart from any forum violations this seems to be a private matter best settled privately. Moderators enforce forum rules not morality. Theft is absolutely wrong but this is none of our business. Public shaming is throwing a carcass out and having the hyenas fall on it and then tear at each other.

[Hervé]

One thing which must be thoroughly understood and emphasized is that the disclosure of the "private matter" is given as an example of the underlying deception which occurred under the Project Avalon umbrella with respect to the ritual abuse and Milab communities. To any of the latter, it's also a "personal matter" to which any and all resonate to.

When such "personal matters" of deception reverberates to 100s, 1000s and more individuals, it becomes a matter of public interest.

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
I've always respected those who attempt to do it, and with the right sponsorship someone may be able to actually remote heal someone with technology(I trust technology can heal cancer for example, but not some new age healer's mind from across the world). But when I think to myself "What would the cabal not want us to do" sitting there imagining healing people with your mind remotely might not quite be it...

I appreciate the sentiment of respect but would appreciate it more if you were to respect the fact that my belief in remote healing is not based on some "new age" belief, it is based on real world personal experience.

A few years ago, I healed a dying woman who had just been hit by a car. She had lost consciousness, stopped breathing, and her heart rate was faint and slow. I know I healed the woman because aside from the clear understanding of what was happening during the healing, I felt the energy flow from my crown, down my body, exit out my hips and then entered the dying woman. The energy flow was so powerful that my body swayed forward as it began to flow. Her eyes opened the moment the energy stopped flowing from my body. She was dying right there in front of me and I saved her life without laying a finger on her or using any technology whatsoever.

This is my personal experience, so it's only natural for you to doubt my account of the event, but please at least consider the fact that my beliefs have not been adopted from the philosophy of others, new age or otherwise. No, she was not on the other side of the world but surely you can see the validity of my belief (at least to me) and interest in remote healing. And Omni, remote healing is not done by "imagining healing people with your mind".

* * *

I have a diploma in social science, majoring in counselling. Even though I left uni in my final year and did not get my full bachelor, I could still professionally counsel people if I so desired. I have no desire to and the reason is because it is no longer my passion, and anyone who is seeking help from a professional deserves a therapist who is fully committed, among other qualities. I am not that person. I stand with the rest of the mod team in this action, not because of any personal hard feelings towards Christine or Karelia, but because in light of complaints and concerns from good people, beyond Avalon's walls, it is our responsibility to respond appropriately, to the best of our ability. This is what it is about, responsibility, just like it's my responsibility not to do the job I no longer feel I would do well.

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Hervé (here)
One thing which must be thoroughly understood and emphasized is that the disclosure of the "private matter" is given as an example of the underlying deception which occurred under the Project Avalon umbrella with respect to the ritual abuse and Milab communities. To any of the latter, it's also a "personal matter" to which any and all resonate to.

When such "personal matters" of deception reverberates to 100s, 1000s and more individuals, it becomes a matter of public interest.

Hi Herve, I hope it's okay to share my view here.. I was fortunate to learn about unconditional love in Avalon, (both by Bill Ryan and Christine Anderson ), especially from observing them together and apart carrying this type of energy which was absent in my life as an example. to which I am most greateful beyond words (and only beginning to get the grasp of that understanding myself).

As someone who has unfortunately close connection to both titles above I can say that this highly complex subject may not deserve any pointing of fingers towards anyone (even though cautios warning is at place), when eliminating yourself from it, despite it's accuracy in some parts, as the umbrella of Avalon has itself (unintentionally so and in most benevolent ways) has fallen into the same claims it's making now (again, a complex subject, we are all learning every day..)

In my personal feelings, such statements may turn out to be somewhat irresponsible (please don't take this personally, I have deep appreciation for Bill and the team), again, done with the immense desire to help, understand, assist and go to the bottom of the phenomenon, and with sincere wish to protect these people... But at certain times, the results were not so much in alignment with this aim (though much did indeed serve this purpose), but therein lays the problem in making such declaration

Many blessings ~

Limor

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Marikins (here)
Moderators enforce forum rules not morality. Theft is absolutely wrong but this is none of our business.

When matters mostly just effect the forum you're right, just quietly maintaining forum order is the way to go.

When matters involve the private life of individual members, then privacy is the way to go.

However when matters pose risks to others outside the forum, using the forum as a springboard, then we have a moral obligation to publicly withdraw the forum's implied support of that activity.

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Marikins (here)
Moderators enforce forum rules not morality. Theft is absolutely wrong but this is none of our business.

When matters mostly just effect the forum you're right, just quietly maintaining forum order is the way to go.

When matters involve the private life of individual members, then privacy is the way to go.

However when matters pose risks to others outside the forum, using the forum as a springboard, then we have a moral obligation to publicly withdraw the forum's implied support of that activity.

As a moral obligation to check our own tufts (As they say in Israel), perheps primarily so

[Finefeather]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)

Posted by Hervé (here)
One thing which must be thoroughly understood and emphasized is that the disclosure of the "private matter" is given as an example of the underlying deception which occurred under the Project Avalon umbrella with respect to the ritual abuse and Milab communities. To any of the latter, it's also a "personal matter" to which any and all resonate to.

When such "personal matters" of deception reverberates to 100s, 1000s and more individuals, it becomes a matter of public interest.

Hi Herve, I hope it's okay to share my view here.. I was fortunate to learn about unconditional love in Avalon, (both by Bill Ryan and Christine Anderson ), especially from observing them together and apart carrying this type of energy which was absent in my life as an example. to which I am most greateful beyond belief (and only beginning to get the grasp of that understanding myself).

As someone who has unfortunately close connection to both titles above I can say that this highly complex subject may not deserve any pointing of fingers towards anyone (even though cautios warning is at place) despite it's correctnes in some parts, as the umbrella of Avalon has itself (unintentionally so and in most benevolent ways) has fallen into the same claims it's making now (again, a complex subject, we are all learning every day)

In my personal feelings, such statements may turn out to be somewhat irresponsible (please don't take this personally, I have deep appreciation for Bill and the team), again, with the immense desire to help, understand, assist and go to the bottom of the phenomenon, and to sincerely protect those people... But at certain times, the results were not so much in aligment with this aim (though much did indeed serve this purpose), but therein lays the problem in making such declaration

Many blessings ~

Limor

Well said Limor, and thank you...

The problem is that unconditional love has lost it's meaning if it only applies when someone's life is in order... unconditional means unconditional... a word which is just too much to commit to for most.

[Bingo]

Paul, May we have a concrete example of the kind of harm to which you are referring? I've been interested in energy healing for quite a long time and have done a lot of work in reflexology, reiki, acupressure, etc. This is about balancing the body's energy so that it can heal itself. This can only create "harm" if someone truly has no idea what they are doing, and the harm is not usually serious. So, can we have some specifics? What type of work are these ladies doing that is dangerous to milab people and is there an example of harm created?

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)

Posted by Hervé (here)
One thing which must be thoroughly understood and emphasized is that the disclosure of the "private matter" is given as an example of the underlying deception which occurred under the Project Avalon umbrella with respect to the ritual abuse and Milab communities. To any of the latter, it's also a "personal matter" to which any and all resonate to.

When such "personal matters" of deception reverberates to 100s, 1000s and more individuals, it becomes a matter of public interest.

Hi Herve, I hope it's okay to share my view here.. I was fortunate to learn about unconditional love in Avalon, (both by Bill Ryan and Christine Anderson ), especially from observing them together and apart carrying this type of energy which was absent in my life as an example. to which I am most greateful beyond belief (and only beginning to get the grasp of that understanding myself).

As someone who has unfortunately close connection to both titles above I can say that this highly complex subject may not deserve any pointing of fingers towards anyone (even though cautios warning is at place) despite it's correctnes in some parts, as the umbrella of Avalon has itself (unintentionally so and in most benevolent ways) has fallen into the same claims it's making now (again, a complex subject, we are all learning every day)

In my personal feelings, such statements may turn out to be somewhat irresponsible (please don't take this personally, I have deep appreciation for Bill and the team), again, with the immense desire to help, understand, assist and go to the bottom of the phenomenon, and to sincerely protect those people... But at certain times, the results were not so much in aligment with this aim (though much did indeed serve this purpose), but therein lays the problem in making such declaration

Many blessings ~

Limor

Well said Limor, and thank you...

The problem is that unconditional love has lost it's meaning if it only applies when someone's life is in order... unconditional means unconditional... a word which is just too much to commit to for most.

Thank you, I do not personally pretend to know much about this, Finefeather, I believe there are layers to unconditional love as well, sometimes what doesn't appear as love, actually is..

Eventually everyone want to do what's best, that says a lot in this beautiful dual planet's book

[Finefeather]

If you care to watch the beginning of this video you will hear Bill reciting a warrior creed… and it comes prior to a Christine interview… done seemingly when love was still in the air... unconditional love in place?... and all was well and what jumped out at me was this line:

I have no means… I make knowledge my means

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xWTRk0ygqGk

So what puzzles me is what could really have happened between Bill and Christine if he suddenly has now thrown his self chosen creed out the door.

[transiten]

Posted by Marikins (here)
I

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Jeffrey (here)
Bill, listen to me carefully. As a friend and a brother I am telling you this. This type of thread invites decay. The carcasses of Christine and Claudia's avatars have been laid out in public, inciting gossip and inviting the vultures to come out and pick at the remains. That's fine and all, but there are consequences to things like this. Building up the type of energy that is attracted to stuff like this is unwise. I'm not saying it was on purpose, but it is happening.

I disagree with your premise, vigorously.

Sometimes it is true, as you say, that when person A calls out person B for some misdeed, the real problem lies more with person A's inadequately processed anger.

But sometimes, it is more the other way. Sometimes B should be called out for their misdeeds.

One of the fundamental mechanisms essential to healthy communities is shaming those who have acted dishonorably. I do not accept principles that categorically reject the validity of any such shaming.

I stand firm on my right and duty to support healthy communities, including at times by shaming dishonorable acts.

This is really the crux of the matter, these two positions. Apart from any forum violations this seems to be a private matter best settled privately. Moderators enforce forum rules not morality. Theft is absolutely wrong but this is none of our business. Public shaming is throwing a carcass out and having the hyenas fall on it and then tear at each other.

What is your definition of "Forum violation" Marikins? Embezzling the donations from Avalon members is NOT A PRIVATE MATTER! I also confess I have not made any donation so far, maybe now will be the right time

[Jake]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
If you care to watch the beginning of this video you will hear Bill reciting a warrior creed… and it comes prior to a Christine interview… done seemingly when love was still in the air... unconditional love in place?... and all was well and what jumped out at me was this line:

I have no means… I make knowledge my means

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xWTRk0ygqGk

So what puzzles me is what could really have happened between Bill and Christine if he suddenly has now thrown his self chosen creed out the door.

Ray, with respect,, you are assuming too much. Love to you, brother.. You know i respect you and your perspective.

Jake

[Finefeather]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
I believe there are layers to unconditional love as well, sometimes what doesn't appear as love, actually is

Eventually we all want to do what's best, that says a lot in this beautiful dual planet's book

That seems to be the usual stance we like to take when things get a little difficult to accept.
So many words have had their true meanings 'adjusted' simply because we cannot commit to reality... here comes another one