Closing the Avalon accounts of two long standing members

[ThePythonicCow]

.
As explained below, the moderation team has unanimously decided to close the accounts of two long-standing Avalon members: Christine and Karelia.

We have deliberated on this for much of the last year, with our hearts as well as our heads. It has never been, nor is it now our desire to exhibit any ill-will. However, we can not stand by and consent with our silence. We desire neither to exacerbate the situation nor to exonerate misdeeds. We have taken a year to sort out our thoughts and feelings and create spaces for reflection and understanding.

During this time, an outpouring of Avalon Members and supporters shared with us privately their growing concerns regarding Christine and Karelia. In various off-forum dialogs, Christine and Karelia attempted to sow seeds of distrust against Avalon's founder Bill Ryan, the moderation team, and the general membership at large.

It has always been our hope that after a time, healing and forgiveness would take place, and emotions would calm down enough to move forward to a place of understanding and reason. It has also been our profound hope that Christine would make right her deliberate misdeeds, which include the embezzlement of Avalon Members Donations, and the outright theft of Bill's gold (the remnants of his inheritance). Unfortunately, none of these things have happened, and we are left with no choice but to take action.

It is also absolutely crucial at this time that we address the delicate subject of the health and safety of Milabs, abductees, ritualistic abuse victims, targeted individuals, and other such systematically abused victims.

The Avalon Community WILL NOT be used as a place where such systematically abused victims are "harvested", or otherwise privately cajoled into experimentation with non-professional counseling or unproven healing modalities, or earmarked as targets to further exploit with private agendas great or small. The moderation team feels it is important to add that Project Avalon does not endorse unprofessional or inexperienced psychological counseling of such victims. We encourage members to report any conduct they feel is to the contrary.

Good counselors save lives. Christine and Karelia appear to be talented, spirited individuals - however they are not trained counselors, nor are they qualified to declare themselves "healers" of what are some of the most psychologically complex and challenging abuse victims. These victims need (and deserve) highly-trained trauma/abuse-victim support. It is our hope that Christine and Karelia will take this into consideration as they tread forward on their path. It will not continue at Avalon!

There are many experienced, professionals available who have specific training in this field, and have been working with victims of such systemic abuse for 25+ years. We highly suggest that members take this into consideration when researching potential help. It is our hope that members will use discernment when joining in focus groups and if engaging, engage with caution when experimenting with various healing modalities.

Project Avalon supports dialog between people with many unusual experiences. In fact, we encourage dialog, and we embrace the love, support, and release that such support can provide. In this sense, Project Avalon is a support group, however, we encourage people to be responsible and discerning. We cannot support self-appointed healers - even in cases where the intention is honorable.

We learned much from Christine and Karelia in prior years, and we value the important contributions that they have given Avalon - including many valuable hours on the moderation team, for which we are extremely grateful. However, with the unfortunate changes in this last year, mutual trust and respect have been destroyed. It is time for us to move forward with heavy, but considerate, hearts.

Sincerely, The Project Avalon Moderation Team

Note: This action was made solely by the moderation team. Due to the personal connection, Bill Ryan neither initiated this moderator action, nor influenced our decision. We would also like to add that the moderation team felt it was important to mention the theft of Bill's inheritance. When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

[Althena]

Mmmm...didn't know them I'm still a newbie.

But, yikes..
Gramps used to tell me to walk quietly because"The road is full of gamblers"

Wise old bean...

[Bubu]

Isnt it nice to hear them just one last time before they are finally sent off.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Paul (here)
When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

I find this so unequivocally hard to swallow, that Christine would steal and that "deception" would be used in the same sentence as her name as being a part of her "true" character. I don't know how to process this.

[mosquito]

Thank you for your customary openness and frankness Paul. I can only say I'm Saddened and shocked, and I hope that healing comes to all those concerned.

[Bob]

Paul, I thank you for posting this.

[Mu2143]

My higher self pointed me the the word "embezzlement" its interesting if you read it, that many people
are doing this without knowing they are(Awareness). However this
is also the knowledge of Good and Evil and not the tree of life that is why people keep fighting each other of things that does not really matter.

Jesus Was against the Law he knew this will kill you and was a teacher of
how to be a care taker (Righteousness) to take care of others that are in need of basic things anything other then that
will get your self in trouble spiritually.

This way of living is NO NO if you want get true this alive.

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[Shannon]

Very sad and disheartening...tis life

Not too long ago another forum close to my heart was completely and totally ruined due to theft of members donations and outright scamming.

You guys have no idea how much it helps to have everyone(mods and administration) looking out for us (members).

Thank you, Paul ....

[Delight]

I did not even know that Christine and Bill were in a relationship. It sounds like a really terrible series of relationship issues. I find it amazing that a person would be so despertae as to steal. The he said she said is all we can know about it. I feel mystified about it all and can only imagine she felt that she had right to the property. It makes more sense that in this personal issue, there is an energetic component. We are made an audience. The bleed over of this personal and sounds terrible situation is now projected in the cybercommunity across forums.

Well,here is my take....the break down that was between Bill and Christine and now placed in the "forum" is a part of people losing their centers in this common error of an era. I think that the fact the mods have had to deal with this issue feels like this is an example of how our emotions/energy are captured by a system.

IMO there is something for Bill to grok about the hook he has for getting robbed. I am not feeling robbed myself so I feel neutral about Christine. If I were to take Bill's "side" or anything about it feels like an energy drain.

Also, I am not feeling confident about all this back story leading to the thread declaration. Concerning the "collective", there was a really kind of secretive or less than transparent divulging of the coupleness. The issue is not clear because it started out a bit murky.

But sure, remove the membership. Please forgive me for the need to comment...it cleared up my thinking....I sense that misfortune seems to be a common element wherever misfortune is expected.

I have a radical perspective that WHATEVER we expect is what will happen in its symbolic nature as our creation. To me spirituality is technology of manifesting in this so dense realm. Therefore, I think that collectively we are given memes to create.

The memes are running rampant in the forums. One is invited to take one or another on. This is showing up because we are manifesting our expected reality and seeing how we do this now. I think we can choose to have the space of variations that is different from our habitual patterns.

"Thoughts are things> Let us create the ones we choose". We have the right and responsibility to this way we are as humans creative. That is a pronoiac stance IMO that places the power with us. Our choice is what? And then So What? Choose again...... It will be what you believe is probable.



I see spirituality as about what we are REALLY, call it consciousness. Our consciousness is the creator but the conscious mind we use chooses to focus on the vision and the heart has love for it. Love not as "liking" but passion for some idea.


LOVE is the passion power of the Universe. Then in our experience we light up visions with its power. This is way beyond emotion, moving into the beingness signature we have and essential being energy we project. THAT is our state which we make symbolic as action and attraction.

There is an energy of desperation that is clogging of freedom of just being alive. I think it really could drive people nuts.

Bill had a stash of gold. The reasons for having that are linked IMO with attracting a "source" to take it away. He may have hired Christine energetically. I want to fire paranoia personally so maybe I need not hire a negative experience?

[Mu2143]

Posted by Saint Theresa (here)
Very sad and disheartening...tis life

Not too long ago another forum close to my heart was completely and totally ruined due to theft of members donations and outright scamming.

You guys have no idea how much it helps to have everyone(mods and administration) looking out for us (members).

Thank you, Paul ....

Luke 9:24–25

For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.
For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself
http://christianity.about.com/od/ver.../verseday2.htm

In another words when you lose all of your stuff items
etc gold, you have gained everything in heaven (I AM) your soul.
Remember this, we are in a reality computer game show called earth
when you quit it, you know it is not real.
When you are here it feel like it, how hard do you think
it is to let go.
Its programmed in to our physical bodies to behave like the game
not live and following the spirit your battle is with your old self.

[araucaria]

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

I find this so unequivocally hard to swallow, that Christine would steal and that "deception" would be used in the same sentence as her name as being a part of her "true" character. I don't know how to process this.

Whatever the character involved, something has been done that was out of character: was the goodness planned as part of the overall deception, or was the deception the outcome of interference at some stage? If you accept the former hypothesis, that would mean that Bill was most comprehensively deceived for a considerable period of time in a manner far beyond anything that the rest of us were, by a latterday Mata Hari. I agree this is hard to swallow. The alternative explanation – some sort of psychic attack – makes much more sense. We have entire threads on the subject.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Paul (here)
.
As explained below, the moderation team has unanimously decided to close the accounts of two long-standing Avalon members: Christine and Karelia.

We have deliberated on this for much of the last year, with our hearts as well as our heads. It has never been, nor is it now our desire to exhibit any ill-will. However, we can not stand by and consent with our silence. We desire neither to exacerbate the situation nor to exonerate misdeeds. We have taken a year to sort out our thoughts and feelings and create spaces for reflection and understanding.

No doubt this was not an easy post to write.

With love and respect,
Paula ♡

[Mike]

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

I find this so unequivocally hard to swallow, that Christine would steal and that "deception" would be used in the same sentence as her name as being a part of her "true" character. I don't know how to process this.

I found it difficult to process at first too. I can't even begin to imagine how Bill processed it.

Ive had a couple women leave me before, pretty much unannounced. It was emotionally crippling enough just having the relationships end that way...and I wasnt even married. I always felt pretty bitter about it, but having read all this stuff, I can't help but feel fortunate now that they didnt rob me blind on the way out.

I'm trying to imagine the mentality of such a person, but I can't get very far. I'm not trying to sound pious, but my mind just doesnt work that way. I mean, as if stealing $60,000 wasnt enough, she had to swipe the avalon donations to boot??? Whew. Thats just some despicable, bottom of the gutter type sh!t.

I'd imagine stealing 60 grand from Bill would get most of us kicked off the forum..so I can only assume this grace period was allowed in the hope that Christine might attempt to explain her actions publicly. I don't know about you guys, but if I were her and I were innocent of these accusations, id be screaming it from the bloody roof tops. Her silence here is deafening.

Its absolutely sickening that this happened to you Bill. it all seems like one of those "48 hours" episodes. but it really must be said that youve handled it all with a unique grace and aplomb.

[Ewan]

karelia has made 2 posts in the entirity of this year and as I am not privvy to various off-forum dialogues I can have no undestanding as to why this decision was made. Considering her (karelia) last post was to let the forum know about the recent passing of an old member known to many this current action seem a little mistimed.

The Christine situation I was aware of as Bill describes much of the story himself somewhere.

I must read too much, I only know of karelia from reading a 4 yr old thread.

[betoobig]

MY dear Bill, you know when universe takes something from you is becouse universe is going to give you something even better. I trust we all can help you to fill up the hole, spiritualy and economicaly talking. MY heart and soul is with you more than ever.
Much Love
Juan

[ulli]

I can see that this would be a difficult situation to reconcile, for some of our regular members here.
Bill and his team of moderators have one agenda, namely to keep the forum community alive and flourishing,
while others feel a pull away from Bill and the forum, to the point of behaving treacherously towards them,
and can no longer see what Avalon is essentially about.

They can no longer see that what is being done here is something unique, something very complex and which will ultimately lead them to greater freedom.

Their commitment is either totally to "community" as they join forums like TOT,
where they experience a fake sens of unity, while sharing their negative perceptions of Avalon's perceived shortcomings,
or they go deeper into "one on one" experiences, exploring their shamanic powers, and the hidden dark crevasses of the individual human psyche, which may give them temporarily blissful feelings, but in the long run only increase their confusion, and bind them in codependent relationships from which they can't disconnect.
Both paths mean that they will end up losing their sovereignty.


Avalon is unique as it will fall neither into the trap of demonizing and backbiting,
nor encourage occultism with all its murky power plays and master-student type of relationships.

It is actually a very high balancing act, where individual sovereignty is respected while allowing
individuals the experience of being part of a virtual community- of becoming part of a greater whole.

For such an act to keep balance rules are needed,
and the only time that someone comes into conflict with the forum is when they stray too far into one of the two above
extremes.

It saddens me when this happens, as I'm sure the mods experience this sadness, too.
Which is each time they have to make an assessment.
Each time the forum starts to wobble, due to certain members rocking the forum boat.

[Cardillac]

what baffles me completely is how someone, unless they had insider connections, was able to steal Bill Ryans's gold; please inform!- I'm clueless...

Larry

[Curt]

God damn...

Bill, I'm very sorry you've had to go through this. And I'm sorry for Christine, too. Because, whatever else she's done, in her time here on Avalon she made a positive impact.

She communicated so clearly and fluently and from the heart that I was often, frankly, amazed. She understood personalities quickly and had tremendous insight into people and into the dynamics at play in our community- which are often complex and don't yield themselves easily.

In this man's humble opinion, she's a woman with some serious firepower- some real 'gifts', not just talents. She was an asset to Avalon, and I always got the sense she and Bill made a very fine, balanced team.

So, I'm very sorry that things have gone down the way they have. But what’s done is done.

Without an ounce of judgement, I wish her well and hope she finds her way through this.

[greybeard]

Into every ones life a drop of rain must fall.
Sometimes its a deluge.

Chris

[TrumanCash]

When I read the beginning post of this thread I was shocked and many questions came to mind and some red flags popped up.

First of all, Christine did not seem to me to be the thieving embezzler criminal type. I also noticed that the post contained generalized, inflammatory rhetoric tending to vilify both Christine and Karelia. So naturally I wanted to know more specifics about what (alleged) harm they have done.

If I were accused of a crime on the internet I would certainly want the opportunity to respond to such a thread to give my side of the story. As we all know when something goes on the internet it stays there until the internet archives no longer exist. How many years would that be?

Also, why would it be necessary to announce the closing of their accounts and expose alleged crimes now when they both voluntarily left the forum several months ago? Have they been duly informed of accusations that have been made about them?

How can Christine respond to these criminal allegations on this thread if she can no longer post on the forum?

These are obviously serious criminal allegations. Were criminal charges filed? If so, where were they filed and can we see a copy of the criminal complaint? If criminal charges were not filed, why not?

What is the actual intended purpose of this thread? Is it ethical to vilify and accuse someone while denying them the opportunity to give their side of the story?

I personally met both Bill and Christine a few years ago and they were living together then. I don't know if they were married or not at that time. That is when they interviewed me and they recorded the interview. I continued communication with them through the following years and was saddened when they split up.

It is often upsetting when couples separate and the he said/she said spreads like wildfire to their friends who, in turn, take sides (or not). Christine did communicate to me that she was very upset. However, she did not vilify anyone. She also indicated the relationship between her and Bill was that of marriage. She did not indicate whether it was a common law marriage, statutory marriage or just a verbal agreement. So I do not know what the actual situation was.

But nothing is black or white. Whether married or not, oftentimes couples who spend a great deal of time living together, sharing income, expenses, purposes, activities, love, bodily fluids, etc, the relationship can enter a gray area.

To clarify my meaning here's a real life example of which I have firsthand knowledge:

A man and woman lived together in a state that recognized common law marriages and their relationship met the requirements of a common law marriage which requires no license, wedding, etc. They later moved to a state that did not recognize common law marriages. They combined their incomes, the man gave her half the business he had started years before, they shared expenses, developed land, etc.

The woman suddenly ended the relationship so the man left with as many possessions as his vehicle could hold. When he returned for the rest of his possessions, the gate was locked and the woman denied him his possessions including gold and silver coins that he acquired before they met. Furthermore, she threatened to go to the sheriff to press charges of stealing by the husband (even though it was the wife that stole the husband's possessions.)

The man proactively went to the sheriff to give his side of the story. He explained that they had a common law marriage in the other state. The sheriff said that he would not accept the filing of any criminal charges from the wife because they were living as man and wife. That is, a wife cannot steal from her husband and vice versa.

These thoughts came to mind when I read Paul's accusations. Nothing is black and white. I don't know what the truth is but I'd sure like to hear Christine's and Karelia's side of the story.

This is, of course, Bill Ryan's private forum and he and his moderators have the right to kick off anyone they want to for whatever reason. I'll probably be the next one because I am a perennial truth seeker, truth teller and I routinely question authority. But I am curious--What forum rules did they violate?

I am not taking sides in this--I just want to discover more of the truth. Is this just a lover's quarrel that has spread to friends? How many times have we seen that phenomenon when couples break up? Why waste peoples' time? At this juncture I do not see that this thread is helpful in any way in the form of spiritual healing. It seems more like opening up an old wound and airing Avalon's dirty laundry for all the world to see. Frankly, it's starting to look like a soap opera and IMO it would be better to delete the thread entirely so people can put their attention on more important and pressing matters.

But even criminals should get their day in court.

TLC