View Poll Results: Do you vote or pay tax?

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  • I don't pay tax

    2 8.70%
  • I'm not registered to vote

    6 26.09%
  • I don't pay tax and am not registered to vote

    6 26.09%
  • Voting can bring change

    3 13.04%
  • Paying tax is necessary

    6 26.09%
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Thread: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

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    Scotland Avalon Member
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    Default Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

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    Last edited by Lochinvar; 6th January 2016 at 14:54.
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Hiya I couldn't really take part in the poll as it didn't list my options.

    I've tried everything I can over the years to go under the radar, to no avail...

    I only pay taxes cos I've no option and I've never ever voted once. As the saying goes, if voting made any difference they wouldn't let you do it...

    I'm not sure how it works in Scotland or elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK if you have a fixed abode you have to pay council tax which then automatically registers your name onto the electoral roll, being on the electoral roll then automatically registers you able to vote.

    If you don't fill in the electoral role forms you get a big old fine and you also cant get any credit (which is a good thing in my eyes, unless it comes to needing to move house as you then cant get a rental verified or a mortgage)

    The only way to not pay taxes is to work cash in hand (very hard to find these days due to an influx of immigration and a crippled economy)

    Ideally we would all be able to live off grid and not comply with any sanctions imposed upon us, but other than doing so we are given no alternative. Even to connect to the utility power network you have to be registered.

    Its little wonder the powers that be are pushing for a cashless society. Cash is our only ally in keeping remotely under the radar any more.
    They have us by the long and curlies!

    Great poll...be interesting to hear does anyone have any tips to help us avoid the dreaded tax and voting prison life we find ourselves slaved too?

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Thank you for your response. I agree with you. The system is designed to make change difficult. I'd say that the most effective change comes with the most difficult tasks (even when that means doing nothing (like not registering to vote and not paying tax)). I'm not really interested in whether or not people vote because I don't believe those running the country care whether you vote communist of fascist. They do care whether or not you've agreed to let them run your affairs (by entering into this agreement through registering).

    I noticed once while in Thames House a database of the addresses in the UK. I checked on this the places I knew and found that there were many more folk listed there than actually living there. I suspect these ghosts can vote and this is a countermeasure to mass non registration (ie full control).

    I believe non registration and non payment of tax to be the key to change (because it requires so much sacrifice).

    Best wishes
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    I have no choice in your poll.

    Although auto titling a democratic country (define democracy), in Brazil voting is compulsory.
    I do not vote as a form of civil disobedience, and as a penalty I have to pay a fine.
    I did not vote for understanding that voting means consent.
    Do not pay the fine results in the loss of a number of privileges such as getting passports, compete in government tenders, etc.
    Last edited by naste.de.lumina; 6th January 2016 at 17:00.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Are you looking for change? How do you think it will come about?
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    I pay taxes, I don't vote but I am registered.

    I think being registered and NOT voting is useful.... the voter turn out stats are something I pay attention to.

    I pay as little taxes as possible, I've owned a company for years (various consulting things) solely to use as a tax write off (now I have a real business and will do the same).

    I think it's MORE important to participate in the black/grey market... making transactions with private individuals & dealing "direct"; but not voting and not paying taxes are ok as well I just don't think that will achieve the outcome you hope for.

    Now, if your advocating people do *something* I completely agree... the Oregon situation is something I'd go participate in if I were able.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)
    Are you looking for change? How do you think it will come about?
    I can speculate but I do not know how it will happen globally.

    I can only answer for myself and in this case I think a change necessarily depends on an expansion of consciousness.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    It concerns me that people aren't talking much (let alone doing much) about the fact that taxpayers money buys the bombs that kill the kids in the Middle East and the Maghreb.
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    ...............
    Last edited by Zionbrion; 27th August 2016 at 05:01.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?
    If you have a traditional job, they will start garnishing your wages...if you are a millionaire and avoid taxes they probably throw you in prison for tax evasion. If you are a multi-billion dollar corporation they let it slide.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?
    1) luck

    2) live somewhere with no taxes

    These guys seem to be doing a good job at avoiding taxes:


    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)
    It concerns me that people aren't talking much (let alone doing much) about the fact that taxpayers money buys the bombs that kill the kids in the Middle East and the Maghreb.
    it's not real to them.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    I vote and I pay taxes. If I don't vote then the person who does vote has the louder voice and perhaps that voice is not speaking on my behalf. I pay taxes because it educates children, pays for the indigent (grandma), provides law enforcement and courts. Civilization requires money and participation.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by Heartsong (here)
    I vote and I pay taxes. If I don't vote then the person who does vote has the louder voice and perhaps that voice is not speaking on my behalf. I pay taxes because it educates children, pays for the indigent (grandma), provides law enforcement and courts. Civilization requires money and participation.
    I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Change isn't easy because the system was designed to make opting out almost impossible.

    Stumbled across this after this post. Very much on topic and interesting. Useful ideas and experiences very relevant and great youtube channel. Strong language used.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbC1ZxMCLM
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)

    I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.
    ''Lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent'', was it a prerogative within your assigned tasks to do such? If so, was it something that was done from most of the bureaucrates that you know of? I find this intriguing!, may you share more of it?

    In my country, we have three level of government, municipal, provincial, federal, I would think that similar things are happening.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by Deega (here)
    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)

    I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.
    ''Lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent'', was it a prerogative within your assigned tasks to do such? If so, was it something that was done from most of the bureaucrates that you know of? I find this intriguing!, may you share more of it?

    In my country, we have three level of government, municipal, provincial, federal, I would think that similar things are happening.
    What was expected of me and all 750 people working with state auditor was to lie to MPs in the Public Accounts Committee about the results of audits carried out over all government departments, UN, EU, BIS, World Bank, NATO....and pretty much any international organisation you can think of. 5 eyes community mostly took turns in audits of the large international organisations and if you had brown skin you were less likely to win the contract to do these international audits (there are league tables apparently). The lies were never written instructions....full deniability was maintained. Effectively the accounts that government produce are highly suspect but then again there has been a qualified audit opinion on some accounts for many years in UK including the largest account (DWP c£180 billion). Money laundering abounds and weapons "mysteriously" disappear. Which is why the article below reminds me so much of what I used to do

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/0...Has-Armed-ISIS
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)
    Quote Posted by Deega (here)
    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)

    I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.
    ''Lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent'', was it a prerogative within your assigned tasks to do such? If so, was it something that was done from most of the bureaucrates that you know of? I find this intriguing!, may you share more of it?

    In my country, we have three level of government, municipal, provincial, federal, I would think that similar things are happening.
    What was expected of me and all 750 people working with state auditor was to lie to MPs in the Public Accounts Committee about the results of audits carried out over all government departments, UN, EU, BIS, World Bank, NATO....and pretty much any international organisation you can think of. 5 eyes community mostly took turns in audits of the large international organisations and if you had brown skin you were less likely to win the contract to do these international audits (there are league tables apparently). The lies were never written instructions....full deniability was maintained. Effectively the accounts that government produce are highly suspect but then again there has been a qualified audit opinion on some accounts for many years in UK including the largest account (DWP c£180 billion). Money laundering abounds and weapons "mysteriously" disappear. Which is why the article below reminds me so much of what I used to do

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/0...Has-Armed-ISIS
    Wow!, thanks to share - look like an institutionalized lie going on, may you tell, why was it that way?, to show a more positive or negative signs of real things going on?, what was the real purpose of doing that? It was an informal process going on to suit the MP, superiors, or?

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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Quote Posted by Lochinvar (here)
    Change isn't easy because the system was designed to make opting out almost impossible.
    Stumbled across this after this post. Very much on topic and interesting. Useful ideas and experiences very relevant and great youtube channel. Strong language used.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbC1ZxMCLM
    The above video is an interview with Ken O'Keefe that the interviewer just put up on YouTube January 5, 2016 under the title:
    Ken O'Keefe: Become a World Citizen and Starve the State!

    For busy people, I direct you to 4:15-8:45 minute mark, and then 11:00-13:15 minutes, in which Ken says "...as a marine I had volunteered to kill or be killed....," believing that the USA was the greatest country in the world, and "...that we were a beacon of freedom and democracy..."

    At 17-19:30 minutes Ken speaks of Palestine and Gaza, during which he points out that if you are really serious about effecting peace and justice in this world, not only could you get beaten up but could be put in prison, tortured and killed.

    Ken O'Keefe has spent years thinking about and deeply reflecting on freedom and the conditions in this world. His conclusions and words are powerful and even inspiring. Note that in the above interview Ken refers to a film he produced called "The United States of Hypocrisy". It is powerful as well.


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    Default Re: Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

    Well the man in the street isn't trusted with a meaningful vote by those running the country. Those in charge expect me to follow their orders and undermine parliament so that incumbent, long serving civil servants (who never change when governments change) carry out the orders (ignoring parliament) outside of democracy. Often I was asked (behind 3 barbed wire fences and 2 metal doors) if I thought the man in the street should have a meaningful vote. The answer they were looking for was "no" but fortunately I always said "yes". I'd imagine these tests get nastier and nastier as you pass through each level. Of course it looks like voting changes things but that's a deception that satisfies peoples need for change whilst maintaining the status quo. It's highly organised, institutional and mostly isn't written down (so can't be hacked by computer). It's all about control. And it looked to me like the MPs on the committee were in on it too (looked like an old boys network).

    It's from this form of extreme control and my exposure to at least some of the strategy of those running the country that I get my perception of how things are run in the world. for example if someone is all over the news....it's because they were put there deliberately.
    The problem is not disobedience the problem is obedience.

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