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Thread: The Problems with Facebook

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default The Problems with Facebook

    .
    Hi, Everyone — I'll start this thread with a joke. But it's actually a serious subject.



    Making fun of this aside (and often in parody, there's profound truth ), I've never EVER liked or been seduced by Facebook, and neither have I ever liked Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook's billionaire creator.

    I tell this part of the story against myself. Wrongly thinking (quite wrongly!) that the 2010 movie The Social Network was a flattering, standard biopic of Zuckerberg, I'd never bothered to watch it.

    But the script was written by the whiplash-brilliant (and internet-phobiac) Aaron Sorkin, who also wrote this year's extraordinary, blade-sharp Steve Jobs. After being completely staggered by that (quite a separate topic), I read the reviews for The Social Network. Many compared it to the 1941 Citizen Kane, which in turn many have thought to be the greatest movie of all time. High praise indeed.

    The parallel to Citizen Kane is that The Social Network tells Zuckerberg's story — as the almost Shakespearian parable of a brilliant but deeply flawed 19 year old who was so socially incompetent and maladjusted that he ended up creating Facebook — as an equally flawed and maladjusted substitute for genuine, meaningful human connection.

    The reviewers were right: it's an incisive masterpiece. I've been kicking myself for turning my back on it till now. If anyone else has missed it, do help yourself here:

    http://we.tl/aR65ylDb2x (699 Mb, free download till 14 Jan)

    Here are just a few quotes from reviews:

    • Facebook has changed the way we interact and connect with other people. In a sense, it has brought people closer by keeping them apart -- allowing them to skip the uncomfortable face-to-face rituals that many of us stumble through.
    • “We lived on farms, we lived in cities, now we live on the internet” (a line from Facebook investor Sean Parker, in the movie)
    • ...the paradox that Facebook, the mechanism by which the social relationships of at least two generations have been transformed, was created by a social misfit.
    • History has been written, in large part, by people not unlike the Winklevosses [real characters who also appear in the movie, who sued Zuckerberg for having stolen their idea]: aristocratic golden boys who know how to use their ample advantages, and how to leverage the talents of others.

      The future may belong in large part to people like Zuckerberg, whom the movie presents as an inscrutable little rodent in a hoodie and flip-flops, tense and peevish, unreflectively arrogant in his intellectual superiority and ambition, almost as lacking in self-awareness as empathic awareness of others.
    • Mark’s attitude upon being called on the red carpet by university officials is instructive. He is unapologetic, defiant and even feels that he deserves credit for having identified the security issues he exploited.

      This anarchic sense of entitlement is the essence of the hacker mentality, or one type of hacker mentality, in which ability, achievement and reputation are the only values. "If you are stupid or incompetent enough to let me compromise you, then you deserve to be compromised, and I deserve the credit for doing it."
    • And finally — this exchange is on factual record:

      "If you ever need info about anyone at Harvard,”
      Zuckerberg once IMed a friend, “i have over 4000 emails, pictures, addresses.”

      Asked how he came by that info, Zuckerberg answered, in four successive messages: “people just submitted it”; “i don’t know why”; “they ‘trust me’”; “dumb f*cks”.

      He bothered to put “trust me” in quotation marks, like a bit of unfamiliar jargon.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 7th January 2016 at 13:57.

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook


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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    .
    Here's The Accidental Billionaires, by Ben Mezrich, about the founding of Facebook.

    Aaron Sorkin, who wrote The Social Network's screenplay, didn't really adapt his screenplay from the book. He and Mezrich wrote their scripts pretty much in parallel, comparing notes and each consulting people who had known or worked closely with Zuckerberg, under condition of anonymity.

    The detailed court records from lawsuits were also made available to both writers. (They're depicted quite faithfully in the film.)

    http://projectavalon.net/The_Acciden...en_Mezrich.pdf


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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Because of my age & my need to "keep things simple" I do not DO Facebook, even tho' you might find my name there. It seems as tho' now that we're more "connected", we are actually more "disconnected" as far a a truly human relationship goes. Each person has to figure out what is best for him or her & adjust the lifestyle most suited to becoming a "whole" person.

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    Costa Rica Avalon Member ulli's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    I thought their surveillance scene has been going on for much longer than FB.
    I used FB for a year, didn't like it, especially when I found out that he sells info to the highest bidder.

    After another year I decided to reactivate my account, which has many sleepy members on it, but also has whistle blowers and a sprinkle of Avalonians, and so decided to use FB as a tool to spread knowledge about the shadow government and also the UFO cover-up.
    And guess what?
    Whitin a few months some woke up and are now sharing the YouTube vids I've posted.
    One of my nephews told me over Christmas how he now watches every Richard Dolan and Steven Greer video he can find.
    And there are several others, who initially used to ridicule or warn me.

    If everyone were using FB for this collective awakening then the FBI and CIA would not find the money nor the agents needed to catch every one of us.
    Everything has a bright as well as a dark side; what matters is how one applies it.

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    It is one aspect of connecting the world and indispensable in doing so. The entire Internet is compromised, there is no such thing as privacy as we all know very well, especially those of us who are Administrators of different types of sites. We speak about one world and the interconnectedness of all beingness at the quantum and atomic levels, of spiritual holism. The Internet has manifested this at the material level and Facebook is the natural byproduct of that technological evolution. We see all human propensities toward social interaction in all of their variagated expressions, positive and negative, expressed on FB. The alphabet agencies, the terrorist organizations and every social collective under the sun, the social butterfly and the social pariah. Bullying, crowdfunding, mob rule, you name it. Beauty and ugliness, the entire gamut.

    Regardless of our personal feelings, this is the way of the world now and there is no going back or giving it up without a major cultural and technological shift. In fact, that is currently underway as the internet prepares to go virtual and new ways of leveraging memory and space on computers opens the way for technology such as Oculus Rift to finally become practical. If y'all think social networking is bad now, wait three to five years when everyone will be wearing a headset and traversing the internet as a virtual space, "walking" and "talking" rather than typing and peering at text on a screen.

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Like you, Bill, I have NEVER ever created a Facebook account. Knowing Zuckerberg’s story, it seemed to me that from the very beginning it had a very low frequency (jealousy and revenge?) and this seems to permanently taint the Facebook community. When Simon Parkes told me he was persuaded to go on Facebook, I told him that I would never be a part of it and that it would cause him heartache – which it has. There is something about the whole set-up that seems to bring out the worst in people, quite apart from the fact that it is a very useful tool for certain ones to obtain intimate information about millions of people.

    A hundred years ago people used to be housed in very close living conditions, yet managed to keep secrets and observe another’s privacy with apparently no trouble. Now people have very private living spaces and yet choose to broadcast their intimate details over half the world. I’m not sure what it all means, but it seems to say something about the insecurity of the human race; the need to have another’s approval for one’s actions, thoughts, feelings and decisions. Facebook seems to be a sort of technological herd instinct activity.

    I realize that many people use Facebook to promote very well-meaning activities, but to me it will always be a platform that sits uneasily and rather precariously as a foundation for service to others.

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Regardless of our personal feelings, this is the way of the world now and there is no going back or giving it up without a major cultural and technological shift. In fact, that is currently underway as the internet prepares to go virtual and new ways of leveraging memory and space on computers opens the way for technology such as Oculus Rift to finally become practical. If y'all think social networking is bad now, wait three to five years when everyone will be wearing a headset and traversing the internet as a virtual space, "walking" and "talking" rather than typing and peering at text on a screen.
    Oh, reading the above I was reminded of the film "Surrogates" ...


    The unstoppable advance of Technology eh ?
    Last edited by Clear Light; 7th January 2016 at 15:36. Reason: Rephrased

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    I do have a Facebook account, but it is used only for activism. . . thousands of "friends", but I know only about 6 of them. I just hope that the message of freedom for all species somehow filters through. . . . Hope it's OK for me to post your joke on my page, Bill?
    Last edited by kirolak; 7th January 2016 at 15:46.

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    If y'all think social networking is bad now, wait three to five years when everyone will be wearing a headset and traversing the internet as a virtual space, "walking" and "talking" rather than typing and peering at text on a screen.
    Oculus Rift ships June 2016... I think we are talking "by the end of summer"... VR will rush through the middle and upper class like wild fire IMO.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Regardless of our personal feelings, this is the way of the world now and there is no going back or giving it up without a major cultural and technological shift
    but it doesn't HAVE to include "facebook" or Google Circles ... both are just data mining fronts built to farm add revenue; facebook is even basically openly allowing stolen content that generates millions of "views".... the corrupt corporate tools should be discarded, open-source is a movement and it needs to hit social media next!


    I don't have a FB account, but we use one for our business.
    Last edited by TargeT; 7th January 2016 at 16:00.
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    .
    For those who appreciated the film (and maybe also for those who've not seen it), here's a marvelous New York Magazine article, in 7 parts, called Inventing Facebook.

    I've combined it all into one PDF:
    http://projectavalon.net/Inventing_Facebook.pdf (25 fascinating pages, 1.7 Mb),

    And to read it online, it's here:
    http://nymag.com/movies/features/68319

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    I deleted my account 2 months ago. I couldn't be happier about my decision. So much negativity and wasted time. I now have more time to work on spiritual progress and research😀

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    post deleted
    Last edited by promezeus; 8th January 2016 at 17:15.

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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Facebook has never been very attractive to me. Why, because everything is so incredibly fragmented/limited over there, reading comments from small boxes lining up requiring me to scroll, has never been my thing. When I find someone I know over there, most of the time I'm seeing very outdated content there that is several years old. It's like getting a glimpse into how busy people are so that they don't have time to update their Facebook page. There are exceptions, for instance I like David Seredas page, because over there he posts interesting news he discovers, for that I find Facebook does provide some value. I created a Facebook page over there, for some reason I'm getting tons of friend requests from Asia, I accept them all, so now when I enter my Facebook page I can get detailed information about what people are doing all over Asia, in a way interesting because I have never been there and I don't know how they live their lives over there, I have never been in contact with anyone though and nobody has contacted me. They just send me friend requests, and I approve them and then that means the Facebook experience changes. The funny thing is though that I don't have more than max 1 minute of time watching a group image from some McDonalds over there in the Philippines, over the long run, I mostly just skip past all of that in the quest to find something more interesting, because I feel like my purpose here is not to know what exactly is happening to everyone everywhere (although I hope they have a great time). But I do like openness, so therefore I find nothing wrong with it, sometimes it can be quite nice pictures also, so then that is good. But the next minute, I'm out of there and then I don't come back, until I feel I know that David Sereda must have posted something interesting over there right now, then I go there. And sure, often times it's pretty interesting what he posts...
    Last edited by WhiteLove; 7th January 2016 at 18:22.

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  29. Link to Post #15
    United States Avalon Member Zionbrion's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    I love the Onion! Ha they nailed it with this one.




    Edit
    Oops just realized this was posted above. Leaving it anyways, its so good you can watch it twice.
    Last edited by Zionbrion; 7th January 2016 at 17:35.

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    United States Avalon Member Heartsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    I like Facebook. I have about 25 friends, only about 5 are active. Four of them are relatives. We share pictures of kids, pets, and vacations. One shares recipes. I don't "friend" people I don't know. I unfriend people who plague me with opinions. I refuse any commercial associations that want to post. All in all, it's a positive experience as long as it's controlled. It brings us closer together.

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    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Oculus Rift ships June 2016... I think we are talking "by the end of summer"... VR will rush through the middle and upper class like wild fire IMO.
    True. But right now, the Net isn't really set up for seamless VR. As a tech guy, I know you are very well aware of that. Now, gaming and virtual "surfing" would be bottlnecked and lagged by lack of bandwidth. Phillip Rosedale, one of the creators of Second Life, is now working with a new platform, High Fidelity, which will:

    Quote Where Second Life is housed on hundreds of thousands of Linden Lab machines, High Fidelity worlds would be distributed across the user base. "We could potentially go from 600,000 or so servers to 600 million," says Rosedale. If you're on one world, you can see others in the sky and travel between them, watching blocky Minecraft-like environments resolve to detailed landscapes as you get closer. As computers advance, so will the possibilities. "
    That will, conceivably, end "lag" and it seems to be a model that could transform the virtual experience itself.

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    but it doesn't HAVE to include "facebook" or Google Circles ... both are just data mining fronts built to farm add revenue; facebook is even basically openly allowing stolen content that generates millions of "views".... the corrupt corporate tools should be discarded, open-source is a movement and it needs to hit social media next!
    True. And, probably, its next evolution won't, unless FB evolves to incorporate new tech innovations as well as cultural evolutions. The kids these days shun FB because it is where their parents hang out. That is the way of the young and as, First Adaptors, they are the ones to watch in order to determine which social networks will be the currency of the near future.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Priceless!

    And there's a lot of truth there. My strong guess is that Zuckerberg had no idea that this would be the surveillance tool of choice a few years hence, but I'd be equally sure that he'd have had no qualms at ALL about selling out, if something was proposed to him on the quiet for CIA backdoor access.

    Zuckerberg is not on our side, folks.

    My own interest in the phenomenon was actually NOT about surveillance. As Rahkyt said in his post #6 above, surveillance is a given these days. Facebook just makes it simpler and easier, as many people are so compliant and unaware.

    The more insidious threat is that it separates us, divides us, isolates us. While all the while beguilingly pretending to do just the opposite.

    We present to others a kind of constructed, fabricated, carefully manicured version of ourselves — it's not really us.

    Spend quality time with a real friend in a real room, or a car, or a café, or on a walk. Or even on a phone call. And experience the difference.

    (The Avalon forum does that too, of course, as does everything else on the net: but at least most of the subjects and views shared here are serious and worthwhile!)
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 7th January 2016 at 18:34.

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The more insidious threat is that it separates us, divides us, isolates us. While all the while beguilingly pretending to do just the opposite.

    We present to others a kind of constructed, fabricated, carefully manicured version of ourselves — it's not really us.

    But isn't that modern society?

    We have platform shoes so we are taller, body constriction clothing so we look thinner, make up so we look.... almost completely different?

    we start our day out by standing in front of a mirror carefully constructing these small white lies; creating our public persona (which may or may not be very close to the "normal" persona) we exaggerate to others to make us seem more attractive to them (though really we are trying to lie to our selves) it's done all the time, almost everywhere.....

    I think this is mostly because the ego is just a mechanism that mimes individuality but doesn't actually know how to fully achieve it or keep it static (our self image is very very fluid).

    Of course then we should get into Desensitization and hyper sexual nature of this "society" we all share in because that most certainly plays a roll as well.


    Bread and Circus is a concept that can be summarized by this: give the people what they want (a distraction, a focus, a enemy... or all three!) & they will suffer incredible levels of oppression and discomfort to keep it all while supporting the giver.

    Facebook is that right? social interaction with out all the "difficult" parts... hell there's barely any physical aspect to it at all! easy-button social interactions, sure they are shallow and un-fulfilling but we've already been psychologically profiled and it was determined that we would accept that un-fulfillment with out much complaint.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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  39. Link to Post #20
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problems with Facebook

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The more insidious threat is that it separates us, divides us, isolates us. While all the while beguilingly pretending to do just the opposite.

    We present to others a kind of constructed, fabricated, carefully manicured version of ourselves — it's not really us.

    But isn't that modern society?
    Yes, it is. But I wonder where it's all headed? The more I think about that, the more worried I feel.

    Some more review quotes: (many of the movie reviews are highly intelligent critiques, by the way)

    The Social Network
    is many things. It is the origin story of Facebook, an incisive portrait of the dorm hermit who can't read social cues but built the social mousetrap that caught millions, and an acid-etched picture of friends unfriended. Most of all, it is the improbably entertaining story of how new media are altering the very nature of courtship and friendship.

    To comic and tragic effect, they show how Facebook (like the telephone and e-mail before it) became a connector that can just as easily distance people as bring them together.

    Within a decade, one in 14 people on the planet would adopt [Zuckerberg's] mode of human interaction, a way to "friend" a person without actually meeting them. It's a form of communication, as we see, that's more to his liking.

    As we note in scene one, wherein a scalded Zuckerberg runs back to his Harvard dorm to insult his girlfriend on a public blog, then to attack women in general - he steals private photos of Harvard women from online dormitory registers (known as facebooks), posts them online two by two, and invites all undergrads to vote for the hottest Harvard chick.

    It's a huge campus hit. It's also a creepy, exploitive, interactive, communal and hypnotically addictive form of superficial judgment.

    In other words, social networking.

    In its Pong infancy.

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