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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    The axioms of Scientology are (by definition) auto evident truths. They prove themselves by all of life. In contrast, the axioms of physics prove themselves by the phenomena of the material universe, while the axioms of geometry prove themselves by itself:

    Quote Comparing the Axioms of Scientology with axioms in another subject, these are certainly as self-evident as those of, for instance, geometry, which is actually a relatively crude subject in that it proves itself by itself, which is a limitation that Scientology does not have. The Axioms of Scientology prove themselves by all of life.
    Exerpted from the book Phoenix Lectures
    CHAPTER THIRTEEN, AXIOM
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 7th March 2016 at 01:41.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    The following videos discusses the E-meter internal workings by the use of an “E-Meter Autopsy”. The meter implements a Wheatstone bridge. A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. The primary benefit of a wheatstone bridge is its ability to provide extremely accurate measurements.





    How the device is used as Hypnotic Mind Control is explained in the following videos. How Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is used is described,




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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by OBwan (here)
    The following videos discusses the E-meter internal workings by the use of an “E-Meter Autopsy”. The meter implements a Wheatstone bridge. A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. The primary benefit of a wheatstone bridge is its ability to provide extremely accurate measurements.
    OBwan, the only scientific statement here is the fact that the E-meter is a wheatstone bridge, and it means it is an instrument to measure with accuracy extremely small variations in resistance.

    Quote How the device is used as Hypnotic Mind Control is explained in the following videos. How Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is used is described,
    The problem with this videos is the fact that it lacks any basic scientific or common sense fundamental. If you are going to use the words hypnosis, NLP and such, you need to define them, otherwise it is only a joke.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Cuitlahuac, how has the practice of scientology helped you in your life and in your development?
    Do you ascribe to the story of dc3-like spaceships and the whole volcano-episode? (This is not meant as a provocation, but as a question as to how do you feel you personally have benefitted from the practice as you feel it to be very valuable for all. Also I am interested in how you incorporate this scifi-stuff to your daily scientology practice? Or do you perhaps separate/dismiss the mythology of scientology from the technique of it?)
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 7th March 2016 at 06:55.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Cuitlahuac, how has the practice of scientology helped you in your life and in your development?
    Do you ascribe to the story of dc3-like spaceships and the whole volcano-episode? (This is not meant as a provocation, but as a question as to how do you feel you personally have benefitted from the practice as you feel it to be very valuable for all. Also I am interested in how you incorporate this scifi-stuff to your daily scientology practice? Or do you perhaps separate/dismiss the mythology of scientology from the technique of it?)
    How has it helped me? Since this has to do with consciousness and spirit being the source of all physical phenomena in this universe, it has helped me to see the part I'm playing in the creation of this reality and be responsible for that part.

    I'm not imposing that Scientology must be very valuable for all. All I'm doing is presenting it as the science for the 21 century, the continuation of scientific discoveries in quantum physics and physics in general and indicating how universities stagnated and are not teaching real science beyond the 19th century paradigms or models.

    dc3-like spaceships and volcano-episodes? If that was found with the memory retrieval techniques, then they could be verified with other non scientology memory retrieval techniques too. Also geology an volcanology should have a say on that.

    How do I incorporate this Scifi-stuff to my daily practice? I wold rather say that scifi-stuff has been being incorporated to the daily practice of the average homo sapiens for the last centuries. From scifi-stuff of Verne's trips to the moon to scifi-stuff of Star Trek like the video-telephones (I-phones), to the 90's Hollywood Super Soldier stories.

    How did you incorporated the scifi-stuff of trips to the moon and mars to your daily life? How are you incorporating the scifi-stuff of video watches (I phone watches) of Star Trek to your daily life?

    Mythology? According to Merriam Webster, Mythology are beliefs that are not true. But don't confuse mythology with an incapacity to see beyond one's nose. Scientology discovered through memory retrieval techniques that the universe is trillions of years old. But homo sapiens scientists said that that discovery could not be true because of the Big Bang which is just some billions of years ago.

    Then more scientists have been discovering recently that there are parts of the universe much older than the Big Bang. You see... a universe trillions of years old is not mythology. And now, probably the Big Bang idea is the real mythology.

    How are you going to incorporate the age of the universe to your daily life? (Of course, this is not meant as a provocation).
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 7th March 2016 at 08:07.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Cuitlahuac, how has the practice of scientology helped you in your life and in your development?
    Do you ascribe to the story of dc3-like spaceships and the whole volcano-episode? (This is not meant as a provocation, but as a question as to how do you feel you personally have benefitted from the practice as you feel it to be very valuable for all. Also I am interested in how you incorporate this scifi-stuff to your daily scientology practice? Or do you perhaps separate/dismiss the mythology of scientology from the technique of it?)
    How has it helped me? Since this has to do with consciousness and spirit being the source of all physical phenomena in this universe, it has helped me to see the part I'm playing in the creation of this reality and be responsible for that part.

    I'm not imposing that Scientology must be very valuable for all. All I'm doing is presenting it as the science for the 21 century, the continuation of scientific discoveries in quantum physics and physics in general and indicating how universities stagnated and are not teaching real science beyond the 19th century paradigms or models.

    dc3-like spaceships and volcano-episodes? If that was found with the memory retrieval techniques, then they could be verified with other non scientology memory retrieval techniques too. Also geology an volcanology should have a say on that.
    I am sorry, my recollection was wrong, had to check it out(which I should have done before even starting to write, sorry about that) - I was referring to the scientology mythology(I am using that word as I do see it as such) of Incident II, ie. of Xenu and the space ships looking like DC-8, carrying humans to be stacked inside several volcanoes and hydrogen bombs being exploded and them getting killed 75 million years ago. How do you see that whole business? Do you see those events as objective, real history and not mythology?

    UT

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    I am sorry, my recollection was wrong, had to check it out(which I should have done before even starting to write, sorry about that) - I was referring to the scientology mythology(I am using that word as I do see it as such) of Incident II, ie. of Xenu and the space ships looking like DC-8, carrying humans to be stacked inside several volcanoes and hydrogen bombs being exploded and them getting killed 75 million years ago. How do you see that whole business? Do you see those events as objective, real history and not mythology?

    UT
    Thanks for the clarification. The Xenu incident was recovered through Scientology non hypnotic memory retrieval techniques. Now, if you want to label that as mythology, you are free to do as you will. But the correct method to verify that would be to see if other persons can recollect the same incident, and see if other people can recollect them with non Scientology memory retrieval techniques. Also, one would have to verify the geological record to find evidence on that.

    Another interesting fact of this Xenu incident is that people believing that it is mythology can go on on believing it is so. That saves a lot of undue explanations and argument. My 'educated guess' is that it is a good thing you believe it is mythology.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 7th March 2016 at 18:59.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Have other people to your knowledge recollected the Xenu-incident independently, without prior knowledge of it? Have you tried?

    I apologize for being somewhat blunt. I do appreciate that you propably did not mean for this thread to discuss scientology on this aspect - on my defence I would say that for me the Xenu-incident is pure fantasy and undermines most(if not all) basis for taking the science of scientology seriously.

    Take for example the amount of glycol-alcohol-freezed people in the amount of 13,5 trillion - it amounts (in conservative estimation a person taking up 0,3m by 1,5m by 0,2m space) to 1 1215 000 000 000 cubic meters of volume, which would be roughly a cube sized 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters. Piling-vise I would say an impressive task. Space-craft-vise too - little over 77 billion individual transport flights (175 seats in one craft - if the persons were frozen in seated positions).

    I don´t mean to sound disrespectful, but the claims made in Scientology are exact, which I think means they are meant as such and may be examined as such. I think I´ll take my leave - I genuinely do not mean to disrupt your thread.


    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 8th March 2016 at 09:42.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Have other people to your knowledge recollected the Xenu-incident independently, without prior knowledge of it? Have you tried?
    The Xenu incident is about an implant, a mind control operation. Psychoanalyst Carl Joung discovered parts of this implant:

    Quote:
    In the 1920s, the psychoanalyst C. G. Jung, a pupil of Freud, discovered that primeval symbols can be found in the minds of all men on Earth and postulated that there was a “collective unconscious”. He considered these “archetypes” to be benevolent as they dealt with such elevated images as gods and angels - yet little did he know that he had found but the implant pictures held in place and perpetuated by the Screen. That Jung failed to interpret the phenomenon correctly does of course not diminish his merits in having discovered it for the west. (Jung was actually quite familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead.)
    - The Pied Pipers of Heaven. L Kin.
    End Quote:

    Quote I apologize for being somewhat blunt. I do appreciate that you propably did not mean for this thread to discuss scientology on this aspect - on my defence I would say that for me the Xenu-incident is pure fantasy and undermines most(if not all) basis for taking the science of scientology seriously.
    It would be like saying the microbial theory of disease is fantasy because nobody can see these microbes when the theory was created. It would be like saying the Quantum Theory of physics should not be made known because it postulates or predicts the existence of parallel worlds, (the Many Worlds Theory) and it would undermine its basis of taking it seriously. It would be like saying the theory of Relativity of Einstein is fantasy because it implies time travel and a curvature of space-time. Both unheard off concepts at the time.

    Quote Take for example the amount of glycol-alcohol-freezed people in the amount of 13,5 trillion - it amounts (in conservative estimation a person taking up 0,3m by 1,5m by 0,2m space) to 1 1215 000 000 000 cubic meters of volume, which would be roughly a cube sized 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters. Piling-vise I would say an impressive task. Space-craft-vise too - little over 77 billion individual transport flights (175 seats in one craft - if the persons were frozen in seated positions).
    I don't know if the 13.5 trillion is correct but lets take the 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters figure. If we distribute it on some 20 volcanoes, it would be a 5 hundred meters cube for every volcano.

    Quote I don´t mean to sound disrespectful, but the claims made in Scientology are exact, which I think means they are meant as such and may be examined as such. I think I´ll take my leave - I genuinely do not mean to disrupt your thread.


    UT
    The thread is only disrupted by people claiming something can not be true just because they don't have the mental framework to evaluate the data.

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  12. Link to Post #130
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Have other people to your knowledge recollected the Xenu-incident independently, without prior knowledge of it? Have you tried?
    The Xenu incident is about an implant, a mind control operation. Psychoanalyst Carl Joung discovered parts of this implant:

    Quote:
    In the 1920s, the psychoanalyst C. G. Jung, a pupil of Freud, discovered that primeval symbols can be found in the minds of all men on Earth and postulated that there was a “collective unconscious”. He considered these “archetypes” to be benevolent as they dealt with such elevated images as gods and angels - yet little did he know that he had found but the implant pictures held in place and perpetuated by the Screen. That Jung failed to interpret the phenomenon correctly does of course not diminish his merits in having discovered it for the west. (Jung was actually quite familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead.)
    - The Pied Pipers of Heaven. L Kin.
    End Quote:

    Quote I apologize for being somewhat blunt. I do appreciate that you propably did not mean for this thread to discuss scientology on this aspect - on my defence I would say that for me the Xenu-incident is pure fantasy and undermines most(if not all) basis for taking the science of scientology seriously.
    It would be like saying the microbial theory of disease is fantasy because nobody can see these microbes when the theory was created. It would be like saying the Quantum Theory of physics should not be made known because it postulates or predicts the existence of parallel worlds, (the Many Worlds Theory) and it would undermine its basis of taking it seriously. It would be like saying the theory of Relativity of Einstein is fantasy because it implies time travel and a curvature of space-time. Both unheard off concepts at the time.

    Quote Take for example the amount of glycol-alcohol-freezed people in the amount of 13,5 trillion - it amounts (in conservative estimation a person taking up 0,3m by 1,5m by 0,2m space) to 1 1215 000 000 000 cubic meters of volume, which would be roughly a cube sized 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters. Piling-vise I would say an impressive task. Space-craft-vise too - little over 77 billion individual transport flights (175 seats in one craft - if the persons were frozen in seated positions).
    I don't know if the 13.5 trillion is correct but lets take the 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters figure. If we distribute it on some 20 volcanoes, it would be a 5 hundred meters cube for every volcano.

    Quote I don´t mean to sound disrespectful, but the claims made in Scientology are exact, which I think means they are meant as such and may be examined as such. I think I´ll take my leave - I genuinely do not mean to disrupt your thread.


    UT
    The thread is only disrupted by people claiming something can not be true just because they don't have the mental framework to evaluate the data.
    This is rather silly, but I'll just add that divided into 500x500x500 meter cubes, the said volume consists of 8000 of them - not 20.

    UT

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Comparing the Axioms of Scientology with axioms in another subject, these are certainly as self-evident as those of, for instance, geometry, which is actually a relatively crude subject in that it proves itself by itself, which is a limitation that Scientology does not have. The Axioms of Scientology prove themselves by all of life.

    - L. Ronald Hubbard
    AXIOMS - (Part 1)
    A lecture given on 20 August 1954



    http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientolo...2C2%2C3%2C4%2F


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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    AXIOM FOUR: SPACE IS A VIEWPOINT OF DIMENSION.

    Do you know that physics has gone on since the time of Aristotle without knowing that! Yet we read in the Encyclopedia Britannica of many years ago (the Eleventh Edition, published in 1911) that space and time are not a problem of the physicist. They are the problem of one working in the field of the mind. And it says that when the field of psychology solves the existence of space and time why then physics will be able to do something with it. And all those fellows with their Ph.D.'s going back to the days of Wundt, they didn't read the Encyclopedia Britannica and find out that they held the responsibility for identifying space and time so that physics could get on its way.

    And because they avoided this responsibility we have to pitch in here and discover and develop Scientology -- not to work in the field of physics, however, but to work in the field of the Humanities. But it so happened that I discovered very, very early while I was studying nuclear physics at George Washington University that physics did not have a definition for space, time and energy. It defined energy in terms of space and time. It defined space in terms of time and energy, and it defined time in terms of energy and space. It was going around in a circle. I first moved out of that circle by putting it into human behavior, but the point is here that without a definition for space, physics was and is adrift.

    - L. Ronald Hubbard.
    Exerpted from the book Phoenix Lectures
    CHAPTER THIRTEEN


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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    "This is not necessarily true, but is what works." This words stated by L. Ronald Hubbard as regards Scientology techniques, what do they mean? What do they mean in the sphere of science? What do they mean stated by a scientist?

    This idea has also been stated by people like Albert Einstein in regards to his theory of relativity. That idea is implicit in subjects like physics or quantum mechanics. The way to explain certain phenomena can vary, but the phenomena being explained remains the same. An example in history is given below.

    While traditional physics of Newton is built around the concept of forces, like gravitation, the physics of Einstein is built around the concept of geometry of space and time. Einstein's physics does not replace or make obsolete Newtonian physics, but Einstein's physics is able to describe phenomena that Newton's physics can't.

    This does not mean that the phenomena described by Newton is false, or that Einstein is wrong just because they describe the same phenomena with a different concept or framework. Their different points of view does not affect the phenomena observed.

    Let's put an example of phenomena in the field of history. The Second WW and 4 different viewpoints to describe it. Each one of them being "that what works".

    From the viewpoint of many germans, Hitler was the man who saved the country from the judeo-masonic conspiracy and the communists. The man that brought prosperity to Germany. That's a valid viewpoint, it's "what works" to explain the event.

    From the viewpoint of the USA, Hitler was a tyrant bent upon eradicating jews and other races and imposing tyranny on the rest of the world. It was the explanation that "worked" for the Allies.

    Another explanation that "works" and has been documented, is that international bankers (Rothshchilds and Rockefellers) financed both sides, Germany and Russia, and made great profits from selling of weapons and forced labor in nazi concentration camps. Besides, forced the jews to create and move to Israel to create the next world war.

    There's even another explanation that "works" and is also being "documented" with testimonials. In this explanation a trilateral extraterrestrial alliance including Gray and Reptilian ETs would empower Rothschild and Rockefeller bankers to finance Hitler and Stalin to kill and rape each other, profit from the arms sells while at the same time create a slave labor in the nazi concentration camps and then "harvest" human resources in the nazi death camps, the soviet gulags and the death camps set up by Eisenhower after the war. Finally manipulating London to create the State of Israel in Palestine to create the next world war.

    Each one of these explanations, each with a different framework and each explaining more phenomena than the previous one, does not affect the facts and the phenomena observed, namely the Second World War.

    That's the case in Hubbard's statement regarding Scientology techniques and events: "this information is not necessarily true but is what works to solve the cases". A difference in viewpoints and frameworks does not affect the facts of the phenomena being observed.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 25th April 2016 at 05:34.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Ronald Hubbard stated in his taped lectures from the 50's that the theory of Evolution was in fact an implant (hypnotic commands put in the mind with the use of technology). Instead, life on Earth was the creation of consciousness (spiritual beings). He explained that the variety in life forms was the result of the spiritual beings having different preferences. There was no 'evolution' from caveman to homo sapiens. "There was a caveman society because one of these spiritual beings wanted it that way. He made them with huge jaws... barbaric taste but exotic".

    You might say: "Nah, I aint believing anything Hubbard says cause he has no university diploma hanging in his wall". Well, no problem with that, because there was a guy with a university diploma from Cambridge hanging on his wall, and not only that, he also got a Nobel prize award hanging on his wall too. The thesis of this chap is that life on Earth is not the result of Darwin's theory of evolution but the result of intelligent design by consciousness (spiritual beings, in this case, ETs).

    The name of this chap is Francis Crick, and he wrote a book called "Life Itself, its Origin and Nature". Crick is a scientist from Cambridge in the field of biochemistry. In his book he develops the theory that life on Earth is the result of extraterrestrial beings (consciousness) seeding the planet with life forms, from bacteria to plants to animals and human beings. Intelligent design called in this case directed pan-spermia.

    This book was written in the early 80's. If you go to your local library most probably you can find it there.

    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 15th May 2016 at 04:29.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    I've just come across this thread and see user cuitlahuac is still spouting his scientology misinformation.

    I was in scientology for about 15 years. I was highly trained in both tech and admin and have listened to all of the PDC lectures that cuitlahuac loves to quote.

    I have also read the TRUE story of L. Ron Hubbard in books such as the excellent Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller.

    Hubbard wasn't a nuclear physicist - he took one short course in physics and failed it! Most of the "information" he gave in his lectures were just pulled out of his imagination.

    Hubbard would often talk about the special abilities you would get by going up the scientology Bridge yet he had NO special abilities himself. He couldn't even exteriorise from his body, which was something he dearly wished to achieve. He died a broken man raving about his "body thetans" that he couldn't get rid of. He also famously admitted that he had failed with scientology.

    I could go on but suffice to say that there is a message board called Ex-Scientologist Message Board (ESMB) whose members are some of the most highly trained and experienced scientologists there has ever been and they are almost all totally against the subject of scientology. Cuitlahuac has occasionally turned up on that board to spout his nonsense and he is invariably laughed at and ridiculed until he goes away.

    Cuitlahuac - read up on the truth about Hubbard instead of forwarding the lies he loved to tell.
    Peter

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Jamie DeWolf is L. Ron Hubbard's great grandson. He is the grandson of L. Ron Hubbard Junior. He is an entertainer and not a scientologist.

    This is a dramatic performance he did showing what his family think of L. Ron Hubbard and scientology:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ
    Peter

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    The father of Scientology leader David Miscavige told us why he left the church he calls a 'cult'

    http://www.businessinsider.com/inter...scavige-2016-6

    He provides some very insightful information about the organization that calls itself a "Church".

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    Default Scary experience

    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.
    I don't want to get into a bashing Scientology fest but.........
    My late wife and I stopped by a Scientology place near us just to satisfy our curiosity and found our selves on the brink of an obvious CON! I won't write of all the strange and arm twisting stunts they pulled but it was very late at night and the director enthusiastically wanted us to sign up, lay down or $$$ and get into few classes that same night!
    We watched some of the Zombie like members wandering around the place with "pasted on" smiles so we left and sat in our car laughing our heads off at the sales hustle & "antics" we just witnessed and NEVER went back.
    I won't be surprised if Ron has published some very powerful stuff but I sure won't be going to their church.
    I wonder if Ron would be proud of what Scientology has become, in his name?
    For that matter, I wonder if Jesus is happy with what we did to his name?
    Oh well.........to each his own.
    Last edited by jimrich; 19th September 2016 at 23:16.

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    Default Re: Scary experience

    Quote Posted by jimrich (here)
    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.
    I don't want to get into a bashing Scientology fest but.........

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Hook.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	32.4 KB
ID:	34235

    Oh, I think you'll find one or two serious 'practitioners' of Scientology here on Avalon BTW though they're very particular about what they consider is the Authentic version !!!

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    Default Re: Scary experience

    Quote Posted by Clear Light (here)
    I think you'll find one or two serious 'practitioners' of Scientology here on Avalon BTW though they're very particular about what they consider is the Authentic version !!!
    Yes. As best we know, there are no active members of the Church of Scientology here. If there were, they'd not be welcome.

  27. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Atlas (21st September 2016), Foxie Loxie (20th September 2016), kanishk (22nd September 2016), Shannon (20th September 2016), YoYoYo (20th September 2016)

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