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Thread: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    ... <trim> ...
    This documentary gives us a good idea of where we are at with DEW and laser tech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4HMkiH3-E
    On this point, I think at least a few of us might be thinking ...

    Such documentaries do not account for the delta between "high tech" and "top secret" for the public and the average layman, and actual "high tech" and "top secret" technologies that have been developed by the world's most advanced private tech weapons firms and thus advanced militaries. I imagine, and have also heard anecdotally, that this delta is enormous. How big it is in reality ... who knows, but we have to factor this in. The SR-71 remained a pretty good secret for many, many years, before info on it became publicly available ... and Bill tells me (based on some sources he trusts I am sure) that some of the info out now, after the plane has been "publicly" retired, is still not reflecting the reality of the capabilities of this machine -- 50 or so years later. And it's just a plane. An amazing one mind you, but still just a plane.

    Of course none of this makes getting to the truth easy, but it has to be considered in the equation.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  3. Link to Post #142
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    If we want to prove anything specifically destroyed the Twin Towers or WTC7, we're going to have an uphill struggle, because to really prove it in a convincing way we would need lots and lots of specific detail, corroboration, and some way of reproducing our theory, even if only with models and demonstrations upon replicas of structural members. With very limited data on physical evidence and no original structural documentation this is obviously difficult. This has to be the first thing that changes.

    It's far easier to prove that the official story as presented by FEMA and then NIST was a self-contradictory joke that didn't even address 99% of the actual collapses. Their reports only went as far as what they argue was required for some kind of collapse scenario to become possible, and they had nothing to say once things actually got moving. NIST's own experimental results, which they later redubbed as "computer calibrations," proved that their hypothesis was impossible.

    NIST heated trusses until they were glowing red, and they did nothing to "pull" exterior columns inward, as if there would be any reason to suspect this in the first place since the fact that steel sags with heat does not mean that it actually weighs more or in any way exerts more force upon the column. If anything the truss should have been pushing the columns outwards because the "sagging" is actually a result of the steel trying to expand with heat but having no room to do so, held fast on the ends, so it bends in the middle instead.

    If enough attention was drawn to how completely ridiculous and counter to science and engineering principles this hypothesis from the government is, we might be able to open the path for a second, international an independent investigation with access to original structural documentation and physical evidence, and with all data open source for the public to also see. This might seem like a pipe dream for the moment but an in-depth forensic investigation was never done for those buildings, and it is what is needed.

  4. Link to Post #143
    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    About the building 6 anomaly:

    Judy Wood claims that the large hole in the middle of the building and the initial absence of a large pile of ruble can not be explained, unless you apply the DEW theory.

    Actually: She is dead wrong!

    The WTC 6 building was a 8 storey high building above the ground.
    It also contained several underground levels. I have not been able to find how many, but since the WTC 1 and 2 had 7 underground levels (70 ft deep), we can assume that WTC 6 had at least 2 and probably up to 4 underground levels.

    If we look at the photo below, we can all count the amount of cut through storeys.
    It's 8 storeys right?
    If you look carefully, you can see where the ground floor was and that it is also cut through with beneath it a pile of ruble that you can easily imagine to extend several storeys deep.



    So in my view, there is no mystery as to where all the material that once made up for the hole in WTC 6 went.
    It went down into the basement, together with the ruble from WTC 1 and 2 that fell on top of it.

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I think we all have to keep in mind the possibilities that anyone can be a disinfo agent ... at the same time, they might just believe in their theories strongly - which would look pretty much the same from the outside.
    Absolutely agreed here.

    I am not out there to destroy Judy Wood.
    All I am interested in is to elevate speculations about 9/11 and what happened into the realm of knowledge.

    ps: mods, Is it possible to upload a picture from a computer directly into a thread, or into a PA file from which you can insert it into a post?
    I'd like to be able to upload photo's in which I added some "paint" work.
    Last edited by Eram; 4th February 2016 at 13:26.

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  6. Link to Post #144
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Eram (here)
    [...]
    ps: mods, Is it possible to upload a picture from a computer directly into a thread, or into a PA file from which you can insert it into a post?
    I'd like to be able to upload photo's in which I added some "paint" work.
    You cannot post an image directly from a computer, you would need to first upload it as an attachment to the Avalon server or upload it to one of those "PhotoBuckets" kind of sites and embed the link (url) in an img format (see: How do I embed an image in a post? or : "How to Tips" with Visuals for Links, Quotes, Images, etc.).
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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  8. Link to Post #145
    Avalon Member winstonsmith's Avatar
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Eram (here)
    About the building 6 anomaly:

    Judy Wood claims that the large hole in the middle of the building and the initial absence of a large pile of ruble can not be explained, unless you apply the DEW theory.

    Actually: She is dead wrong!

    The WTC 6 building was a 8 storey high building above the ground.
    It also contained several underground levels. I have not been able to find how many, but since the WTC 1 and 2 had 7 underground levels (70 ft deep), we can assume that WTC 6 had at least 2 and probably up to 4 underground levels.

    If we look at the photo below, we can all count the amount of cut through storeys.
    It's 8 storeys right?
    If you look carefully, you can see where the ground floor was and that it is also cut through with beneath it a pile of ruble that you can easily imagine to extend several storeys deep.



    So in my view, there is no mystery as to where all the material that once made up for the hole in WTC 6 went.
    It went down into the basement, together with the ruble from WTC 1 and 2 that fell on top of it.

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I think we all have to keep in mind the possibilities that anyone can be a disinfo agent ... at the same time, they might just believe in their theories strongly - which would look pretty much the same from the outside.
    Absolutely agreed here.

    I am not out there to destroy Judy Wood.
    All I am interested in is to elevate speculations about 9/11 and what happened into the realm of knowledge.

    ps: mods, Is it possible to upload a picture from a computer directly into a thread, or into a PA file from which you can insert it into a post?
    I'd like to be able to upload photo's in which I added some "paint" work.
    The WTC6 low-rise did have several levels below grade. This is elevation 250/253
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...SKA12-84_0.png

    This is elevation 264--Parking
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...SKA11-84_0.png

    Here is elevation 274-- Parking
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...SKA10-84_0.png

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  10. Link to Post #146
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    [...]
    Compering WWII, atom bomb etc. is comparing apples to oranges. They used the a bomb to bring the japs to their knees and stop the war. They didn't kwwp it a secret after they used it.
    [...]
    Japan was ready to surrender and sign any papers long before the bombs were dropped, "they" kept the war going till they were able to produce those bombs and drop them. These bombs were intended to demonstrate something else to other world leaders and literally put a gun to their heads! There too, there was a massive, world wide hammering of the visuals of these bombs effects...
    I don't think that's quite the way history books read. I recall the Japs weren't ready to sign until the second bomb was dropped.

    In any case, why didn't they uses this concept after 9/11. Instead they tried to cover everything up.
    Just doesn't make sense.

    This documentary gives us a good idea of where we are at with DEW and laser tech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4HMkiH3-E
    In this documentary it says the laser is capable of heating the very small missile target to 1200F.

    Does this sound like enough energy to pulverize concrete? It certainly isn't enough to vaporize, or demolecularize, or melt steel. The energy requirements to do just one floor would be next to impossible to sustain.

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  12. Link to Post #147
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by winstonsmith (here)
    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    [...]
    Compering WWII, atom bomb etc. is comparing apples to oranges. They used the a bomb to bring the japs to their knees and stop the war. They didn't kwwp it a secret after they used it.
    [...]
    Japan was ready to surrender and sign any papers long before the bombs were dropped, "they" kept the war going till they were able to produce those bombs and drop them. These bombs were intended to demonstrate something else to other world leaders and literally put a gun to their heads! There too, there was a massive, world wide hammering of the visuals of these bombs effects...
    I don't think that's quite the way history books read. I recall the Japs weren't ready to sign until the second bomb was dropped.

    In any case, why didn't they uses this concept after 9/11. Instead they tried to cover everything up.
    Just doesn't make sense.

    This documentary gives us a good idea of where we are at with DEW and laser tech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4HMkiH3-E
    In this documentary it says the laser is capable of heating the very small missile target to 1200F.

    Does this sound like enough energy to pulverize concrete? It certainly isn't enough to vaporize, or demolecularize, or melt steel. The energy requirements to do just one floor would be next to impossible to sustain.
    Why are we even talking about lasers? Are you suggesting we use a comparison between specific-use missile defence system lasers, and their intended use, and the effects that appear to be related to some energy weapon potentially used on 9/11 (very clearly not a laser) ? ... Microwave and particle beam weapons are not lasers.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  14. Link to Post #148
    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by bsbray (here)
    If enough attention was drawn to how completely ridiculous and counter to science and engineering principles this hypothesis from the government is, we might be able to open the path for a second, international an independent investigation with access to original structural documentation and physical evidence, and with all data open source for the public to also see. This might seem like a pipe dream for the moment but an in-depth forensic investigation was never done for those buildings, and it is what is needed.
    Personally, I think that the biggest problem with exposing the official story is not so much the facts that contradict their theory, but the psychological implications that will result from admitting that their theory is a bad joke.

    People with authority know full well that they risk loosing their job and are up against forces that are beyond imagination if they speak out.
    Living with yourself in awareness that your own government pulled this off is also unbearable, so they choose for the third option. Denial

    You see this often in situations where the lie affords to maintain the comfort zone they live in.
    In a Family where incest is committed, often many members of that family sort of know about it.
    Their common sense tells them that something is very wrong, but the ego instinct intuitively knows that to investigate the very question will lead to an experience that they feel unable to face.
    So, they choose denial. Often on an unconscious level.

    Bringing facts to light is very important, but there also has to be a movement that will break the taboo around the official story of 9/11.

    How?
    I don't know.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    The mention of whether or not Judy Woods theory is disinformation by design or whether she just believes deeply in her theory brings question to the validity of her theory.
    The one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the fact that she has publications on the market. This puts her motivations in the category of "for profit".

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    The mention of whether or not Judy Woods theory is disinformation by design or whether she just believes deeply in her theory brings question to the validity of her theory.
    The one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the fact that she has publications on the market. This puts her motivations in the category of "for profit".
    Just because myself or certain others never draw final conclusions without overwhelming fact, and subsequently expressed that does not make one person's research or theories any more or less accurate (but thanks for the flattery). It does not bring any change to the validity of her theory at all, it only brings change within your mind. Tighten that up ...

    Believe nothing, yet consider everything.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    The mention of whether or not Judy Woods theory is disinformation by design or whether she just believes deeply in her theory brings question to the validity of her theory.
    The one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the fact that she has publications on the market. This puts her motivations in the category of "for profit".
    Judy Wood's research, presented as high quality images in her book, stands, independent of her conclusions from viewing those images.

    Look at those images for yourself ... you may well come to similar conclusions as did Judy Wood.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Believe nothing, yet consider everything.
    This is my position. I don't question the 'possibility' that such technologies exist, nor do I doubt the gov would do such a thing with said technology. I just need hard physical proof to believe. Like Nana thirmite in dust IS hard physical proof that Nana Thermite was used, along with eye witness testimony and video collaboration of explosions.

    I don't think there is even a whistle blower claiming such tech, as what Judy Woods claims was used, even exists?
    So we have nothing at all to support what she claims other than pictorial hypothesis.

    Also everything she claims is "evidence" (and evidence is not proof), of DEW or some exotic weapon, can be reproduced with conventional weapons, common and uncommon demolitions methods. ;

    So maybe decades from now more info will come out like it usually does to show some hard proof supporting Judy Woods claims. But until then I'm leaning on the no proof side. And BTW before this thread I was more on the side of DEW being used. But after asking pertinent questions I find no hard evidence to support her claims.
    Last edited by Paul; 7th February 2016 at 03:05. Reason: fix quoting

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Believe nothing, yet consider everything.
    This is my position. ... <trim> ... I just need hard physical proof to believe.
    Wait a second ... that doesn't add up! ...
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Wait a second ... that doesn't add up! ...
    I believe nothing without hard physical proof. What's confusing with that?
    Last edited by Paul; 7th February 2016 at 12:21. Reason: trim nested quoting

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    I believe nothing without hard physical proof. What's confusing with that?
    Even "hard physical proof" can be misinterpreted, misunderstood, misevaluated, planted by someone to make you believe, etc. Stats can be manipulated to paint almost any picture, and surveys can be designed to give the desired result. A lack of "hard physical evidence" doesn't change outcomes that we observe. So even at the point where you are comfortable enough to "believe something outright", you have basically locked the door on that particular conclusion. However, more evidence may come out later, that refutes your "conclusion" -- but you have already locked that door. Leaving "conclusions" until the end of the Universe (the only actual conclusion that exists), is the only way to keep those doors unlocked. Once one has locked a door, their stance becomes rigid. then Others can use that rigidity to move you in the direction of their choosing - the rigidity allows that to occur.

    Sorry for getting philosophical, but my statement "believe nothing, consider everything" allows one to humour some things as "fact" perhaps, but keeps the door open to allow for relentless improvement in discovering the "Truth". There is no truth that sets one free. The closest thing I have found to setting me free is my refusal to conclude a solid "belief" in anything, while at the same time, considering everything. Truth is relative. Like beauty. The statement "Believe nothing, consider everything" when, honoured, reveals that finding "truth" is a journey, not conclusions, as the truths you find may indeed change over time, as your views and perceptions change over time. People who blindly support Donald Trump, for example, have much different "truths" than I do. But to them, those truths are real, and to me, mine are real ... belief is the problem. replace all belief with considerations, and the relationship to "truth" changes.

    I am not saying we shouldn't consider and explore, I am saying we should never stop considering and exploring ...
    Last edited by Paul; 7th February 2016 at 12:22. Reason: trim nested quoting
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    ...

    The closest thing I have found to setting me free is my refusal to conclude a solid "belief" in anything, while at the same time, considering everything. Truth is relative. Like beauty. The statement "Believe nothing, consider everything" when, honoured, reveals that finding "truth" is a journey, not conclusions, as the truths you find may indeed change over time, as your views and perceptions change over time. People who blindly support Donald Trump, for example, have much different "truths" than I do. But to them, those truths are real, and to me, mine are real ... belief is the problem. replace all belief with considerations, and the relationship to "truth" changes.

    I am not saying we shouldn't consider and explore, I am saying we should never stop considering and exploring ...
    I like you analogy, using Trump for example. lol.
    Truth is what an individual believes in. Truth and beliefs vs fact and reality, not the same.
    Last edited by Paul; 7th February 2016 at 12:23. Reason: trim nested quoting

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Curiosity (here)
    I like you analogy, using Trump for example. lol.
    Truth is what an individual believes in. Truth and beliefs vs fact and reality, not the same.
    And the realization has to be ... any one of us will only know "truths and beliefs", reality is unique to a combo of perception and perspective, and unless one is "all knowing", one's view is filtered through perception and perspective ... if the approach to this is careful ... it can be freeing.
    Last edited by Paul; 7th February 2016 at 12:23. Reason: trim nested quoting
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Eram (here)
    Bringing facts to light is very important, but there also has to be a movement that will break the taboo around the official story of 9/11.

    How?
    I don't know.
    Historically, it happens by younger generations replacing the older ones in society. When people grow up exposed to certain controversies they seem to be more able to think clearly about it than the older generations to whom the controversies come as a shock to their belief systems. Copernicus is one example, and investigations into the explosion of the USS Maine is another.

    It's not a very encouraging answer but it may be the case here as well.

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    Thumbs down Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Here are some figures and stats to dig into.

    Vaporizing the World Trade Center
    Is Much of the World Trade Center Missing?
    http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics1.HTM

    Concrete Pulverization
    Twin Towers' Concrete Turned to Dust in Mid-Air
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal.../concrete.html


    The Core Structure Of The World Trade Center Towers
    Was A Steel Reinforced, Cast Concrete, Tubular Core.
    http://www.911review.org/WTC/concrete-core.html

    1.3 Can We “Count” The Debris?
    http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=145&Itemid=60

    I haven't examined all this yet but I will then get back here with some thoughts.
    Last edited by Curiosity; 7th February 2016 at 23:29.

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    Default Re: The sheer volume of concrete and steel that simply vanished on 9/11

    Where the debris went. It wasn't dust.

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?168254-...-landfill-tour

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    Curiosity (15th March 2016), Eram (16th March 2016)

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