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    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by Saint Theresa (here)
    Elisa lam is indeed freaky as all get down. But, Bill, she was headed up to the roof and the cctv showed her talking to invisible entities before she was deemed missing. Air lifted? Idk. She doesn't have wings though.



    Thanks for posting this S Theresa! This is hard to watch, but important to see..very very creepy.

    I think the hotel roof was accessible, but the water tank itself was not.....the opening could not possibly fit a human body thru it. That was the fantastical thing about that event..

    The way she was moving her hands was odd(in the video)..I.got the impression she was pleading with someone...or something

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    I've read all the books, watched/listened to all the interviews, regular check the website and been in touch with Mr. Paulides from time to time. I'm not an expert or anything like that, but after all of it I don't think there's just one answer to all or most of these cases. There are definitely categories and perhaps even pockets of them. There are some that seem to have a creature/Bigfoot connection, there are some that seem to have impossible logistics (pointing to some kind of relocation), and then there's the ones near rivers/lakes in cities/towns with the victim usually drunk, etc. These cases are bizarre and there are literally thousands of them.

    Don't forget the movie will be coming out:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-411-The-Movie

    This is the case that has troubled me the most and think of it often even after reading about it years ago:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...d-Atadero-case

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    There may be one explanation for the clothing being found and the bodies missing:

    http://www.livescience.com/41730-hyp...ndressing.html

    Quote Terminal burrowing

    It's well-known that warm-blooded hibernating animals will often dig or burrow into a small, enclosed den to spend the winter. The tight quarters surrounding their bodies can help to minimize heat loss.

    Humans, in the final throes of severe hypothermia, exhibit a somewhat similar behavior known to researchers as "terminal burrowing." In a 1995 article in the International Journal of Legal Medicine, researchers from Germany described hypothermia victims "in a position which indicated a final mechanism of protection, i.e., under a bed, behind a wardrobe, in a shelf, etc."

    Terminal burrowing behavior isn't widely studied or well-understood, but the German researchers described it as "obviously an autonomous process of the brain stem, which is triggered in the final state of hypothermia and produces a primitive and burrowing-like behavior of protection, as seen in hibernating animals."

    Paradoxical undressing

    As strange as the terminal-burrowing behavior might seem, an act called "paradoxical undressing" is even more confounding. The term describes the behavior among many victims of extreme hypothermia of peeling off most or all of their clothing, increasing heat loss. [The 14 Oddest Medical Case Reports]

    When rewarming the body of a hypothermic person with the body of another person, first-aid experts often recommend that both the victim and the "rewarmer" be naked or barely dressed. This facilitates the transfer of heat from the warm person to the person with hypothermia.

    But that recommendation, researchers believe, has nothing to do with paradoxical undressing. To shut down the loss of heat from the extremities, the body induces vasoconstriction, the reflexive contraction of blood vessels.

    Over time, however, the muscles necessary for inducing vasoconstriction become exhausted and fail, causing warm blood to rush from the core to the extremities. This results in a kind of "hot flash" that makes victims of severe hypothermia — who are already confused and disoriented — feel as though they're burning up, so they remove their clothes, researchers have concluded.

    Paradoxical undressing often occurs immediately before terminal burrowing. The researchers in Germany investigating hypothermia victims noted in their article that "the final position in which the bodies were found could only be reached by crawling on all fours or flat on the body, resulting in abrasions to the knees, elbows, etc. This crawling … happened after undressing, as there were abrasions to the skin but no damage to the corresponding parts of the removed clothing." [Top 10 Mysteries of the Mind]
    Could it be possible that the people who are never found end up in a crevasse or the victims of some scavenger? Coyote, wolf, bear.. These are National Parks and generally speaking, not very safe places, especially for little ones. Anyone who has ever cared for a child knows that they can slip away in a nano second.

    However, the 411 map does bear a striking resemblance to two other maps:

    (1) Karst topography in the US and (2) DOD's installation map

    I am not denying that between Karst topography (sink holes), the DOD and the fracking that some unbeforeseen species has not arisen from a deep and unknown cavernous space. It very well might be the scavenger that is removing the bodies.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    This is an interesting topic. I have reason to believe that I was abducted from, and returned to, Yellowstone as a child.

    Cat
    Daughter of Sekhmet.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by Saint Theresa (here)
    Elisa lam is indeed freaky as all get down. But, Bill, she was headed up to the roof and the cctv showed her talking to invisible entities before she was deemed missing. Air lifted? Idk. She doesn't have wings though.

    The problem is that access to the roof was locked, with an alarm. There was no way for hotel guests to get up there.

    Access to the four water tanks was only via the top of the tanks, which were quite high (vertical cylinders, if I understand it right) — and when the maintenance guy went up to the roof to investigate guests' complaints of low water pressure, he had to fetch a ladder to reach the top of the tanks.

    It was then he saw Elisa Lam's naked body in one of them... which couldn't be extracted, as there wasn't a hole large enough.

    They had to cut the metal tank open to get her out.

    She was somehow dumped in there interdimensionally (or by teleportation: same thing). Sherlock Holmes again, with appropriate apologies to Conan Doyle.

    It's the only option left — after all the impossible options have been discarded. (Discarding all the other options takes less than a minute flat if one is intellectually brave enough!)

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)

    Anyone who has ever cared for a child knows that they can slip away in a nano second.
    One child who slipped away, in 1952, in a nano second (or less!), was found alive and well 19 hours later — 12 miles away, on the other side of two mountain ranges, and to get there he'd also have to have climbed large fences and crossed several creeks.

    He was two years old. I'm not even sure I could do that myself.

    Two years old? Forget it. He could hardly walk. He was lifted away by something or someone... and then dropped literally miles away, a short while later. (The 'lifting away' explains the many, many cases where highly-trained tracker dogs just can't find any scent or a trail.)

    That little boy was very lucky... many have never been found, despite being so young that (in normal circumstances!) the search radius couldn't reasonably be very far.


    Screenshot from http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yd6IpuaFtH8, 25:09
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 26th February 2016 at 21:12.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    There may be one explanation for the clothing being found and the bodies missing:

    http://www.livescience.com/41730-hyp...ndressing.html

    Quote Terminal burrowing

    It's well-known that warm-blooded hibernating animals will often dig or burrow into a small, enclosed den to spend the winter. The tight quarters surrounding their bodies can help to minimize heat loss.

    Humans, in the final throes of severe hypothermia, exhibit a somewhat similar behavior known to researchers as "terminal burrowing." In a 1995 article in the International Journal of Legal Medicine, researchers from Germany described hypothermia victims "in a position which indicated a final mechanism of protection, i.e., under a bed, behind a wardrobe, in a shelf, etc."

    Terminal burrowing behavior isn't widely studied or well-understood, but the German researchers described it as "obviously an autonomous process of the brain stem, which is triggered in the final state of hypothermia and produces a primitive and burrowing-like behavior of protection, as seen in hibernating animals."

    Paradoxical undressing

    As strange as the terminal-burrowing behavior might seem, an act called "paradoxical undressing" is even more confounding. The term describes the behavior among many victims of extreme hypothermia of peeling off most or all of their clothing, increasing heat loss. [The 14 Oddest Medical Case Reports]

    When rewarming the body of a hypothermic person with the body of another person, first-aid experts often recommend that both the victim and the "rewarmer" be naked or barely dressed. This facilitates the transfer of heat from the warm person to the person with hypothermia.

    But that recommendation, researchers believe, has nothing to do with paradoxical undressing. To shut down the loss of heat from the extremities, the body induces vasoconstriction, the reflexive contraction of blood vessels.

    Over time, however, the muscles necessary for inducing vasoconstriction become exhausted and fail, causing warm blood to rush from the core to the extremities. This results in a kind of "hot flash" that makes victims of severe hypothermia — who are already confused and disoriented — feel as though they're burning up, so they remove their clothes, researchers have concluded.

    Paradoxical undressing often occurs immediately before terminal burrowing. The researchers in Germany investigating hypothermia victims noted in their article that "the final position in which the bodies were found could only be reached by crawling on all fours or flat on the body, resulting in abrasions to the knees, elbows, etc. This crawling … happened after undressing, as there were abrasions to the skin but no damage to the corresponding parts of the removed clothing." [Top 10 Mysteries of the Mind]
    Could it be possible that the people who are never found end up in a crevasse or the victims of some scavenger? Coyote, wolf, bear.. These are National Parks and generally speaking, not very safe places, especially for little ones. Anyone who has ever cared for a child knows that they can slip away in a nano second.

    However, the 411 map does bear a striking resemblance to two other maps:

    (1) Karst topography in the US and (2) DOD's installation map

    I am not denying that between Karst topography (sink holes), the DOD and the fracking that some unbeforeseen species has not arisen from a deep and unknown cavernous space. It very well might be the scavenger that is removing the bodies.
    Pauledes addresses the so called "hypothermia-paradoxical undressing "...and calls b@llsh@t.

    Good post though.

    The problem I have with scavengers is that alot of the clothing is found in such a way that the scavengers would have to be able to fold the victims clothes or arrange them in a way that they just couldn't be able to to do unless they had thumbs.

    Folded clothes and body parts arranged or put in clothing all organized and arranged in certain ways.
    Last edited by Shannon; 26th February 2016 at 00:18.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Saint Theresa (here)
    Elisa lam is indeed freaky as all get down. But, Bill, she was headed up to the roof and the cctv showed her talking to invisible entities before she was deemed missing. Air lifted? Idk. She doesn't have wings though.



    Thanks for posting this S Theresa! This is hard to watch, but important to see..very very creepy.

    I think the hotel roof was accessible, but the water tank itself was not.....the opening could not possibly fit a human body thru it. That was the fantastical thing about that event..

    The way she was moving her hands was odd(in the video)..I.got the impression she was pleading with someone...or something
    More like she was treading water...

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    That hotel where Elisa was murdered has a history of nasty stuff going down but that's another thread...

    Do the research on that evil place.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Sorry off topic kinda..

    Oh and just a little fyi about Elisa lam... That hotel "the Cecil hotel", was the infamous hotel that the night stalker lived in.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Althena (here)
    That hotel where Elisa was murdered has a history of nasty stuff going down but that's another thread...

    Do the research on that evil place.
    We must have posted at the same time. Lol

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    The freaky thing about this case that a couple from the UK (("guests") complained that the water tasted "funny" after drinking the Lam juice.
    This is one of the most fcuked up evil cases I have ever seen. It screws with my mind as I'm writing this.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Saint Theresa (here)
    Sorry off topic kinda..

    Oh and just a little fyi about Elisa lam... That hotel "the Cecil hotel", was the infamous hotel that the night stalker lived in.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Althena (here)
    That hotel where Elisa was murdered has a history of nasty stuff going down but that's another thread...

    Do the research on that evil place.
    We must have posted at the same time. Lol
    You're right Teresa, we did...

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Sorry fokes, back to topic. But Bill brought it up and he's right. It happens all over the world, not just in the deep dark woods.

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    Question Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Note in my region of Washington state, this vanishing person topic is big news ..
    With local news and law enforcement agencies crusading in putting the message
    out to the general public ... There are currently 40 active missing persons cases
    in the local county - which includes both urban/suburban and wilderness ...

    happening right now on the local news ...

    Call our Connect Center NOW to talk to local law enforcement detectives about
    any missing persons cases you have questions or info about!






    The National Missing and Unidentified Person’s System (NAMUS) reports 895 Washington cases in their database. Their records indicate 37 of those cases are from Spokane and Spokane County ... More here
    Last edited by giovonni; 26th February 2016 at 02:57.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Mmm, looks like the Northwest is a hot spot for these "occurrences"...

    I shiver at the thought of going on so many lonely treks around those woods when I was young and stupid...
    Last edited by Althena; 26th February 2016 at 07:45.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    I've communicated with Dave on this.

    My thought is that the national parks were created to cordoned off these places where no one should live because of these abnormalities. It was easier than stretching 2,000 miles of yellow tape around the boundary.

    Whether it is portals or abductions or some other occurrences is still up for debate. Why else would NPS not document the events.
    It can't be that... there's a whole bunch of urban disappearances, as well, which Dave is now beginning to focus on, too; also in rural areas, which aren't National Park or National Forest areas.

    In the last few days (prompted by this thread) I've been listening intently to every interview and presentation I can find on this.

    It's the weirdest thing I've ever encountered. It's also really disturbing and upsetting. I think the victims suffer indescribably while still alive.

    (Note for interest: I spend a LOT of time alone, with my dog — and have done in previous years — in sometimes extremely remote areas. OMG. )

    Here are my very basic thoughts. (I have some more, too, that I could share later.) Doing a Sherlock Holmes here... it's simply where the logic leads, like it (or believe it) or not.

    • These people are clearly being airlifted away (or interdimensionally taken). In one of the urban cases, Elisa Lam's body was found in a hotel rooftop water tank that was for all intents and purposes inaccessible and sealed. In another case, a young man disappeared from a bar that was only accessible by elevator, which was monitored 24/7 by a security cam. He did NOT leave the bar in the elevator. He just disappeared from the room. Only interdimensional advanced technology can do these things.
    • They're being used for some purpose while still alive. After that's completed, they're dumped — almost always (but not in every case) found dead. (Note: those who are never found might easily have been dumped in a place never searched. Some of the victims might have been dumped while still alive, but died soon after. Often, there's no evident cause of death.)
    • There is high intelligence, and cold calculation involved. The abductions are 100% effective. There's never a screwup or a giveaway of any kind.
    • Because of the lack of co-operation from the National Park Service in response to proper FOIA requests, this might be classified as a matter of national security. As in the UFO/ET coverup that started in the late 40s, the reason might be that the intel agencies know all about it but don't properly understand it themselves — and are powerless to act or protect. But the public can't be told, as it's way too alarming.
    • Dr David Jacobs, whose work on ET abductions I greatly respect, has the view that whichever ETs are responsible for the 'normal' (!) abductions are basically cold, calculating and self-interested, and are in complete control. He concludes that they're essentially doing something for themselves, using humans as a resource, as we would use farm animals. We don't harm farm animals needlessly for the sake of it, but we do butcher them, or use them in other ways, when we need to or want to. Farmers never question that's what they're for.
    • Charles Fort famously wrote:

    Would we, if we could, educate and sophisticate pigs, geese, cattle?
    Would it be wise to establish diplomatic relation with the hen that now functions, satisfied with mere sense of achievement by way of compensation?

    I think we're property.

    I should say we belong to something:
    That once upon a time, this earth was No-man's Land, that other worlds explored and colonized here, and fought among themselves for possession, but that now it's owned by something:

    That something owns this earth -- all others warned off.
    Yes Bill but the urban ones are different. Most involve alcohol and body of water close to where they were last seen.

    The park disappearances involve greater distances from where they were last seen and heights. Or sometimes at locations previously checked.

    The only thing similar about the two rubrics are they are both strange disappearances.
    When in doubt, do the next right thing.
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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Well if national parks/certain wooded areas also have what the lady below describes seeing, it adds another possible dimension to these missing person cases. This was in Mississippi I think.
    Starts at bout 19:58
    Last edited by Tyy1907; 26th February 2016 at 04:52.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by AriG (here)

    Anyone who has ever cared for a child knows that they can slip away in a nano second.
    One child who slipped away, in 1952, in a nano second (or less!), was found alive and well 19 hours later — 12 miles away, on the other side of two mountain ranges that would have required 11,000 ft of ascent and descent, and to get there he'd also have to have climbed large fences and crossed several creeks.

    He was two years old. I'm not even sure I could do that myself.

    Two years old? Forget it. He could hardly walk. He was lifted away by something or someone... and then dropped literally miles away, a short while later. (The 'lifting away' explains the many, many cases where highly-trained tracker dogs just can't find any scent or a trail.)

    That little boy was very lucky... many have never been found, despite being so young that (in normal circumstances!) the search radius couldn't reasonably be very far.


    Screenshot from http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yd6IpuaFtH8, 25:09
    I was referring to the cases where the clothing had been found and not the individuals. Your cited case cannot be that, of course.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    .
    One of the very weirdest cases (and there are MANY. MANY weird cases) is that of the 1978 disappearance of Steven Kubacki. The documented facts:

    • Summary: Steven Kubacki vanished for 15 months, presumed dead... then woke up in a field, hundreds of miles away, wearing different clothes.
    • In February 1978, Steven, a student at the time who was learning German, went missing in the Michigan area, USA — an area known as the "Great Lakes Triangle," which is written about in a book of the same name by Jay Gourley that documents the disappearances of many ships, boats, and aircraft. (Paulides has stated this is an excellent book.)
    • Steven said he was going to go skiing. He failed to return. His skis and poles were found on the beach of Lake Michigan, with his footprints on the ice leading into the lake, one-way. The footprints abruptly stopped, and it was assumed he'd fallen through the ice (the ice having re-frozen) and drowned. His backpack was later found in the same general area.
    • On 5 May 1979, 15 months later, Steven walked up to his father's door and said he didn't remember much. He had woken up in Pittsfield, 40 miles from his father's house, lying in a meadow wearing clothes that weren't his. He had a small satchel beside him with maps that weren't his, either. Where he woke up was 700 miles from Lake Michigan.
    • Steven stated said he didn't need to talk with anyone about his highly strange experience, because he didn't have any psychological problems. After 1983, Steven got a masters in linguistics, and a PhD in clinical psychology.
    • Paulides has tried to get in touch with him. Steven has not responded to his calls or emails.

    Wow, many times over.

    I wrote to Dave Paulides just now:

    About STEVEN KUBACKI:

    Dave, kudos for your most important and meticulous work.

    Maybe some UNOBVIOUS questions about Steven Kubacki:
    1. Did it seem to his family and friends that he had aged at all?
    2. Had he lost or gained any weight?
    3. Was his hair much longer?
    4. Had he grown any facial hair (beard, mustache) in the 15 months missing?
      (If not, how had he shaved, and who had cut his hair??)
    Separately, I would STRONGLY recommend getting in touch with Courtney Brown from the Farsight Institute [ http://farsight.org ] to initiate a scientific remote viewing session on some of these cases, or the entire inexplicable situation. He can be contacted here:
    http://farsight.org/farsight/contact1.html

    My very best wishes ~ Bill Ryan
    (Co-founder: Project Camelot, Project Avalon)


    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 26th February 2016 at 14:51.

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas

    note: just reading above... I think it's apparent that Elisa Lam was under some kind of influence, she was acting paranoid and trying to hide from something... and it didn't seem to be a physical being... I would only be curious in knowing her past psychological background... then she ends up dead in a water tank... we have to presume the same influence at work... chilling and horrific, something able to break through into this world and communicate with certain individuals like that?... like there is some defect in their "radio" that allows an inter-dimensional "hacker" to access their consciousness and communicate with them... it's known from studying sensory perception that things can appears outside your body (like your visual experience for example when of course all the information and actual physical experience has to technically be INSIDE your brain... doesn't make it any less real... just evidence of massive complexity and subtle influence...



    I can't say too much (not sure what I am "technically" allowed to say, but this is all relatively "anonymous" anyhow...) but I just met an acquaintance/friend who says his brother became obsessed with remote viewing and now does it more or less full time and even trained under Ed Dames... and he says that he could see stations on the moon and that they hold people there as slaves, essentially against their will... He said this to me point blank with no real prompting on my part, so I was kinda taken aback... we have since had some other interesting conversations... I think he was not sure if he was supposed to share that with me, as he clearly stated later there are some things he can't share... because his brother's clients are under confidentiality agreements... of course he hasn't been clear on who ordered his brother to look in this direction or if he did it of his own accord... (he kinda pulled back a bit... on that one...)

    ... It sounded legit, the way he described the process his brother has to go through before he can actually do a designated "job"... it's rather complicated and would satisfy any scientific double blind procedure... very subtle... no way anyone would have made that part up...

    We know there are tens of thousands of missing persons, it's been going on for decades... and may even have increased during certain periods (would like to see the stats/correlations on that...) and 1) The Government actively/passively tries to cover it up... which tells me they are privy and may even have some connection to it... (my speculation) ...and the other thing that stuck with me that Paulides said is 2) There has to be an intelligent agency behind this phenomena... because it is ALWAYS done specifically, and sometimes under incredibly tight parameters when NO ONE is looking... each and every time... without fail...

    Personally I think it is multiple parties in on this... from Big Foots, alien/terrestrial agents, and also possibly some of them may be secret organizations like Satanic groups and the government... i.e. it's a bloody free for all because they can all hide under the anonymity that everyone is pointing their finger at everyone else... perfect cover and perfect application for "diffusion of responsibility" and/or "plausible deniability" ... it's even possible there may be even unspoken cooperation amongst some of these parties... This may be why it's so difficult to assess... there are multiple factors... I know from experience when trouble shooting something that others "couldn't figure out" ...I usually discover multiple factors causing the failure (which is very difficult to troubleshoot... and why they couldn't isolate any one factor... or isolate one factor but still not fix it, etc... (and lol...

    I think it goes without saying that government "behaviour" needs to be understood better then how Paulides is presenting it, you know he knows it's not government ineptitude, complacency or negligence... He is just being too empirical to call it what it is without direct and incontrovertible proof. Although it could be logically deduced with a high probability of accuracy.
    Last edited by sigma6; 7th March 2016 at 00:45.
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    By faith we understand things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible

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    Default Re: David Paulides' research: over 1600 inexplicable abductions in National Parks, wilderness, and urban areas


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