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Thread: The Wreck of the TITAN!

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    Default The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Is this novel just a coincidence or is there much more to this story?



    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/151...GXVKP7E0C1B5FJ

    The novel by Morgan Robertson was written in 1898 about an imaginary ocean liner "THE TITAN" and her "maiden voyage" across the Atlantic. The story was written 14 years BEFORE the epic tragedy of the famed ship - The Titanic!



    Here are just some of the similarities of the two tales:


    1. The two ships at the time were described as; "the largest passenger ships ever built".

    2. The two ships were touted to be "UNSINKABLE".

    3. In the novel, The Titan collided with an iceberg in calm waters where it sank.....both in the month of April.

    4. Like the Titanic, there was great loss of life due to inadequate quantity of lifeboats on board!

    5. Both ships had near identical names.

    6. Both ships had almost identical floor plans and "cutting edge" technically advanced design and construction details.

    Here's where it gets really interesting...


    On board the Titanic when she sank, were three very powerful and influential passengers:


    Benjamin Guggenheim a multimillionaire by way of birth from the famed Guggenheim mining family.



    Isisdor Strauss - a multimillionaire. A Member of the House of Representatives and owner of the Macy's Department stores.



    John Jacob Astor - at the time, was believed to be the most wealthiest man in the world from the ASTOR dynasty.


    One of his "calls to fame" was a successful science fiction novel, he wrote in 1894 titled: "A Journey in Other Worlds !" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journey_in_Other_Worlds


    The book offered a fictional account of life in the year 2000. It contains abundant speculation about technological inventions, including descriptions of a worldwide telephone network, solar power, air travel, space travel to the planets Saturn and Jupiter, and terraforming engineering projects — damming the Arctic Ocean, and adjusting the Earth's axial tilt (by the Terrestrial Axis Straightening Company).

    In Astor's novel, the future United States is a multi-continental superpower. European nations have been taken over by socialist governments, which have sold most of their African colonies to the U.S.; and Canada, Mexico, and the countries of South America have requested annexation. Race conflict is a thing of the past, since the "dark elements" of the American hegemony have died out.



    And where "the rubber hits the road".....

    All three men were vehemently and actively opposed to the creation of the new proposed monetary institution - The Federal Reserve Bank!

    After their untimely death, in December of 1913, the Federal Reserve Bank was formed in the United States and has since been controlled by the Illuminati Banking Cabal to this very day.


    "The Truth Never Fears Investigation".


    Last edited by M-Albion-3D; 4th February 2016 at 20:44.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    the Titanic saga has always fascinated me which is why I chose to comment on this thread-

    for more info on this topic do read the Robin Gardener books "The Riddle of the Titanic" and "Titanic: the Ship That Never Sank?" in which Gardener states it was the amost identical sister ship Olympic (re-named Titanic) that sank in the N. Atlantic; Gardener's expoundings are supported by Mike Sparks (author of tremendous book "James Bond is Real" about the life of Ian Fleming) who claims to personally know Robert Ballard, discoverer of the so-called Titanic wreck in 1985; Sparks said Ballard told him where the name Titanic should appear (wreck was already disintigrating) he saw the letters "MP";

    I also read a book greatly discrediting Gardener ("Titanic or Olympic: Which Ship Sank?- The Truth Behind the Conspiracy") but I think some of the comparative photos were mislabeled;

    I would tend to believe Sparks/Ballard before I would believe anyone else-

    if Gardener is correct the Olympic, less than a yr. old, was no longer sea worthy (loong story!- read the Gardener books) and had to be disposed of in order to cash in on the insurance but was most lucrative under the name of the newer Titanic-

    either way, even if really is the Titanic down there, that ship was most definitely scuttled-

    please be well all-

    Larry

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    You have to wonder how such a badly damaged ship (the Olympic) sailed on uneventfully for several more decades? IMO, it was the Olympic which struck an iceberg and was deliberately sunk, not the Titanic (for various reasons: insurance fraud and to end any opposition to J P Morgan - the owner of White Star btw - and the formation of the Federal Reserve).

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    I am a self-confessed conspiracy theorist. I enjoy the challenge of analysing each and every possible angle to get at the truth. Or at least a hypothesis of the most likely truth. I think it’s important to go in with an open mind, but leaning on the slightly sceptical side, I think that’s important.

    This topic has appeared a few times, and for me, after having read the books, heard the interviews, watched the documentaries, etc, I still believe in my original conclusion, that a switch did NOT take place, and the ship that sank really was Titanic. I’m not saying that this conclusion is ultimately correct, because as with any historical conspiracy, the only way to be absolutely certain is to literally travel back in time and see for yourself. If only! But all we have is present day evidence to work with, and in this case it is actually not at all scarce. There’s a lot of it, and it all points to Titanic really being Titanic.

    I think the thing that finally killed the theory for me, once and for all, was Titanic's serial number of 401 being found stamped (engraved permanently into the metal, and not riveted on) into the wreck in numerous places, on the outside of the hull, and under the water line, and even into the deep internal workings of the ship, such as on gear shaft. These have been found, and photographed. They read 401, a number unique to Titanic. For any switch to occur, the amount of work required is unbelievable, bordering on virtually impossible to achieve, except for somebody insane, and with bottomless pockets.

    There's a ton, ton, ton of evidence to plainly illustrate that such a switch did not and could not have occurred. A simple example might be Titanic's wheelhouse, which was flat, and significantly different to Olympic's round wheelhouse (pictured). That would not be an easy 'switch'.



    The insurance scam, which pretty much holds the whole theory up, has also been disproved. It turns out Titanic was in fact grossly undervalued.

    Here's a list of just a few differences between the Olympic and her sister ship, mostly internal, and cosmetic, which would all have to be addressed, changed, and swapped out. It would involve major refitting, with many suites, parlours and internal spaces being extensively altered and re-designed, re-painted, and re-carpeted, all taking a very long time to do, and at a huge cost, whilst holding to complete silence (forever) the Harlond and Wolfe workers (15,000 of them) consigned to do this work.

    1. Forward half of the 1st class A-deck promenade on Titanic was enclosed with retractable glass screens; the Olympic's promenade was open all the way along.

    2. The front of the wheelhouse in Olympic's bridge was curved, but on Titanic its flat.

    3. The bridge wings (forward) and the aft docking bridge (stern) on Titanic extended over the ship's side by a couple of feet. On the Olympic, they were flush with the ship's side (prior to 1912/13 refit).

    4. The 2nd class promenade area on the Olympic ran for the last quarter of "B deck", but on the Titanic it was truncated to extend the 1st class restaurant out to the port side, and on the starboard side, the cafe parisien was included.

    5. B deck was also drastically different on both ships - Olympic had a first class promenade whereas Titanic had two private verandahs and suites that were plush with the sides of the superstructure.

    6. The reworked accommodations on B and C Decks, dramatically altered the number and arrangement of the windows and portholes on both decks.

    7. Titanic had an extended enclosure aft on C Deck.

    8. Titanic had a different arrangement of ventilators, fans, piping and machinery on the Boat Deck.

    9. Titanic had carpetting and floor tiles that were different in colour.

    10. Titanic had Turkish Bath area on the starboard side of F deck that was different in layout.

    11. Titanic's officers quarters were different, with the officers Deck House pushed out more on Titanic than Olympic.

    12. On Olympic, the wireless cabin had an outside window, but this was changed on Titanic to allow more seaward facing cabins to be included.

    13. On Olympic,the wireless room was on the port side of the officers deck house While on Titanic it was situated amidships.

    14. The porthole on the D deck gangway doors was round on the Olympic; on the Titanic it consisted of two vertical rectangular windows.

    15. The propellers on the two ships had different pitches and were therefore not interchangeable.

    16. The reception room on Saloon Deck "D" was larger on Titanic than Olympic; Titanic had more columns than Olympic.

    17. Titanic was 4 inches longer than Olympic.

    18. Olympic's bridge roof was painted white while Titanic's was bare planking (or possibly painted gray).

    19. The top of Olympic's breakwater was painted brown while Titanic's was white.

    20. Olympic's outdoor forward stairs had covers while Titanic's did not

    21. The porthole arrangements on Shelter Deck "C" between the two ships were different.

    22. The lounge furniture on both ships had their ships own names on them.

    23. Modifications would result in Titanic having 1,004 gross tons(or 100,400 cubic feet) more enclosed space than the Olympic.

    24. The paintings in Titanic's smoke room was "Approach to Plymouth Harbour" while on Olympic Was "Approach to the New World."

    25. Titanic had additional cabins on the Promenade Deck "A" around the aft staircase.

    26. Olympic had open third class berths, Titanic did not

    27. Another reception room was added to Titanic's Bridge Deck "B" next to the A la Ca rte restaurant.

    28. Different air vent arrangement around the funnels

    29. The steel plating arrangement on the two ships was noticeably different,
    especially around the bow plating around the anchor; two plate-edges were welded together on Titanic, but left unwelded on the Olympic.

    30. The iron gates of the three elevators were different on Titanic wreck than photos which show them on Olympic.)


    In addition to keeping silent the thousands of workers (impossible), the Captain, the deck officers, and the huge crew would also have to be ‘in on it’. This is long before the days of ‘compartmentalization’ remember, by which official secrets are nowadays kept in check. Let us not forget the passengers either...many of whom (in 1st class at least) were regular Atlantic travellers, and would have voyaged on both vessels (the Olympic having entered service in 1911, and in that first year alone carried 17,000 passengers). A switch of this kind, on this scale, would not only be immensely difficult to pull off, but be a tremendous risk, unless everyone was ‘in on it’. Not possible. In addition to this damning point, the Olympic continued to sail well into the late 1930s, carrying hundreds of thousands. There is not a hint of gossip, rumour, or speculation on this ‘conspiracy theory’ from that time. There is no mention at all of the Olympic being possibly something other than the Olympic. The switch theory is entirely a latter day theory (invention).

    Many also seem to overlook another quite obvious flaw to the theory. The herculean effort (and cost) to make the Olympic look like the Titanic, doesn't take into account the same herculean effort and cost, at the very same time, to make the Titanic look like the Olympic.

    All in all, nothing about the ‘switch’ reads as even slightly plausible. When the physical evidence is taken into consideration next to a non-existent insurance scam (the reason for a switch in the first place) it does not at all stack up. (Source). In fact, everything from here falls apart.

    I’ve never seen any conclusive evidence to suggest that Guggenheim, Strauss, and Astor were opposed to the Federal Reserve. It’s possible, of course, but I find it hard to believe that Ismay would’ve been against it as well, and he was a passenger too, and only pure luck saved him.

    ****
    Regarding ‘The Wreck of The Titan’... yes, that is interesting. I always believed the comparisons were more than merely coincidental. A prophetic vision? Quite possibly.
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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Here's some interesting discussion on direction of Guggenheim, Strauss and Astor.
    http://yournewswire.com/did-the-sink...deral-reserve/


    I still can't help but wonder how this author had the knowledge to create such a work of supposedly fiction of an event 14 years prior to its occurrence. As the stakes regarding the FRS were so contentious and so pivotal in US and indeed world history, was there any possibility of time travel by those who can/could and did? Seems to me that this incursion into human history on similar pivotal events may have been a common occurrence, humanity "by design" so to say.

    Something along the lines of the "Therns" in the version of Disney's John Carter...opps, did I say "Disney"?


    "The Rothschilds, Morgans and Rockefellers are controlled by the Jesuit Order. The most powerful of families ‘do whatever is necessary to destroy constitutional liberty in America and bring the Pope to world domination.’ Construction of the Titanic began in 1909; at a shipyard in Belfast, Ireland. Belfast was Protestant and hated by the Jesuits. Morgan took control of the White Star Lines. The Jesuits ordered J.P. Morgan to build the Titanic. From the very beginning of the luxury liner, the Titanic was destined for doom.

    There were a number of powerful men who were NOT in favor of the Federal Reserve System. Benjamin Guggenheim, Isa Strauss and John Jacob Astor opposed the formation of a F.R.S. These men were arguably the richest men in the world and stood in the way of the Jesuits’ plan. ‘These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace.’ Not only were these enemies of the Jesuits against a Federal Reserve Bank, but they would have used their wealth and influence to oppose World War I.


    This was the ‘maiden’ voyage of the greatest ship ever built. The ‘unsinkable’ campaign assured passengers of comfortable safety. Many Irish, French and Italian Catholics were on board. Protestants from Belfast were also encouraged to immigrate to the United States on the Titanic. These were ‘expendable’ people; for the most part. But, the real reason for the ship’s destruction was a game between the super rich whereby Guggenheim-Strauss-Astor could be eliminated. ‘They had to be destroyed by a means so preposterous that no one would suspect they were murdered, and no one would suspect the Jesuits."
    Last edited by M-Albion-3D; 5th February 2016 at 17:14.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    I have to read more into this theory. I find it really too elaborate to whack someone by building the biggest and most expensive ocean liner and sinking it.

    I'm sure there's more to it though.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    I am a self-confessed conspiracy theorist. I enjoy the challenge of analysing each and every possible angle to get at the truth. Or at least a hypothesis of the most likely truth. I think it’s important to go in with an open mind, but leaning on the slightly sceptical side, I think that’s important.

    This topic has appeared a few times, and for me, after having read the books, heard the interviews, watched the documentaries, etc, I still believe in my original conclusion, that a switch did NOT take place, and the ship that sank really was Titanic. I’m not saying that this conclusion is ultimately correct, because as with any historical conspiracy, the only way to be absolutely certain is to literally travel back in time and see for yourself. If only! But all we have is present day evidence to work with, and in this case it is actually not at all scarce. There’s a lot of it, and it all points to Titanic really being Titanic.

    I think the thing that finally killed the theory for me, once and for all, was Titanic's serial number of 401 being found stamped (engraved permanently into the metal, and not riveted on) into the wreck in numerous places, on the outside of the hull, and under the water line, and even into the deep internal workings of the ship, such as on gear shaft. These have been found, and photographed. They read 401, a number unique to Titanic. For any switch to occur, the amount of work required is unbelievable, bordering on virtually impossible to achieve, except for somebody insane, and with bottomless pockets.

    There's a ton, ton, ton of evidence to plainly illustrate that such a switch did not and could not have occurred. A simple example might be Titanic's wheelhouse, which was flat, and significantly different to Olympic's round wheelhouse (pictured). That would not be an easy 'switch'.



    The insurance scam, which pretty much holds the whole theory up, has also been disproved. It turns out Titanic was in fact grossly undervalued.

    Here's a list of just a few differences between the Olympic and her sister ship, mostly internal, and cosmetic, which would all have to be addressed, changed, and swapped out. It would involve major refitting, with many suites, parlours and internal spaces being extensively altered and re-designed, re-painted, and re-carpeted, all taking a very long time to do, and at a huge cost, whilst holding to complete silence (forever) the Harlond and Wolfe workers (15,000 of them) consigned to do this work.

    1. Forward half of the 1st class A-deck promenade on Titanic was enclosed with retractable glass screens; the Olympic's promenade was open all the way along.

    2. The front of the wheelhouse in Olympic's bridge was curved, but on Titanic its flat.

    3. The bridge wings (forward) and the aft docking bridge (stern) on Titanic extended over the ship's side by a couple of feet. On the Olympic, they were flush with the ship's side (prior to 1912/13 refit).

    4. The 2nd class promenade area on the Olympic ran for the last quarter of "B deck", but on the Titanic it was truncated to extend the 1st class restaurant out to the port side, and on the starboard side, the cafe parisien was included.

    5. B deck was also drastically different on both ships - Olympic had a first class promenade whereas Titanic had two private verandahs and suites that were plush with the sides of the superstructure.

    6. The reworked accommodations on B and C Decks, dramatically altered the number and arrangement of the windows and portholes on both decks.

    7. Titanic had an extended enclosure aft on C Deck.

    8. Titanic had a different arrangement of ventilators, fans, piping and machinery on the Boat Deck.

    9. Titanic had carpetting and floor tiles that were different in colour.

    10. Titanic had Turkish Bath area on the starboard side of F deck that was different in layout.

    11. Titanic's officers quarters were different, with the officers Deck House pushed out more on Titanic than Olympic.

    12. On Olympic, the wireless cabin had an outside window, but this was changed on Titanic to allow more seaward facing cabins to be included.

    13. On Olympic,the wireless room was on the port side of the officers deck house While on Titanic it was situated amidships.

    14. The porthole on the D deck gangway doors was round on the Olympic; on the Titanic it consisted of two vertical rectangular windows.

    15. The propellers on the two ships had different pitches and were therefore not interchangeable.

    16. The reception room on Saloon Deck "D" was larger on Titanic than Olympic; Titanic had more columns than Olympic.

    17. Titanic was 4 inches longer than Olympic.

    18. Olympic's bridge roof was painted white while Titanic's was bare planking (or possibly painted gray).

    19. The top of Olympic's breakwater was painted brown while Titanic's was white.

    20. Olympic's outdoor forward stairs had covers while Titanic's did not

    21. The porthole arrangements on Shelter Deck "C" between the two ships were different.

    22. The lounge furniture on both ships had their ships own names on them.

    23. Modifications would result in Titanic having 1,004 gross tons(or 100,400 cubic feet) more enclosed space than the Olympic.

    24. The paintings in Titanic's smoke room was "Approach to Plymouth Harbour" while on Olympic Was "Approach to the New World."

    25. Titanic had additional cabins on the Promenade Deck "A" around the aft staircase.

    26. Olympic had open third class berths, Titanic did not

    27. Another reception room was added to Titanic's Bridge Deck "B" next to the A la Ca rte restaurant.

    28. Different air vent arrangement around the funnels

    29. The steel plating arrangement on the two ships was noticeably different,
    especially around the bow plating around the anchor; two plate-edges were welded together on Titanic, but left unwelded on the Olympic.

    30. The iron gates of the three elevators were different on Titanic wreck than photos which show them on Olympic.)


    In addition to keeping silent the thousands of workers (impossible), the Captain, the deck officers, and the huge crew would also have to be ‘in on it’. This is long before the days of ‘compartmentalization’ remember, by which official secrets are nowadays kept in check. Let us not forget the passengers either...many of whom (in 1st class at least) were regular Atlantic travellers, and would have voyaged on both vessels (the Olympic having entered service in 1911, and in that first year alone carried 17,000 passengers). A switch of this kind, on this scale, would not only be immensely difficult to pull off, but be a tremendous risk, unless everyone was ‘in on it’. Not possible. In addition to this damning point, the Olympic continued to sail well into the late 1930s, carrying hundreds of thousands. There is not a hint of gossip, rumour, or speculation on this ‘conspiracy theory’ from that time. There is no mention at all of the Olympic being possibly something other than the Olympic. The switch theory is entirely a latter day theory (invention).

    Many also seem to overlook another quite obvious flaw to the theory. The herculean effort (and cost) to make the Olympic look like the Titanic, doesn't take into account the same herculean effort and cost, at the very same time, to make the Titanic look like the Olympic.

    All in all, nothing about the ‘switch’ reads as even slightly plausible. When the physical evidence is taken into consideration next to a non-existent insurance scam (the reason for a switch in the first place) it does not at all stack up. (Source). In fact, everything from here falls apart.

    I’ve never seen any conclusive evidence to suggest that Guggenheim, Strauss, and Astor were opposed to the Federal Reserve. It’s possible, of course, but I find it hard to believe that Ismay would’ve been against it as well, and he was a passenger too, and only pure luck saved him.

    ****
    Regarding ‘The Wreck of The Titan’... yes, that is interesting. I always believed the comparisons were more than merely coincidental. A prophetic vision? Quite possibly.
    re: 401...
    or they could have just switched the paperwork, before hand... and everything you are saying is backward... (sorry if that sounds too simple, but like all magic tricks, that is usually how it's done... simply..) no question in my mind it was the Olympic...
    Last edited by sigma6; 6th February 2016 at 07:09.
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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    I heard that various bankers trying to set up a new financial system were on that ship. Including the Astors, who are a bloodline family with (apparently) a few good souls in there, who have partially resisted the NWO agenda. They got them all together and then sunk the boat.

    And yes, the book "Wreck of the Titan" is a huge mystery.
    Last edited by Daozen; 6th February 2016 at 16:02.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Quote Posted by sigma6 (here)
    re: 401...
    or they could have just switched the paperwork, before hand... and everything you are saying is backward... (sorry if that sounds too simple, but like all magic tricks, that is usually how it's done... simply..) no question in my mind it was the Olympic...
    I think that sounds a bit too simple. And simple tricks are easily seen through, even if they are effective. The RMS Olympic was registered as ship 400, its parts ordered, fabricated (with that number) and installed, ahead of Titanic (ship 401) by several months. All the documentary and photographic evidence backs this up. Of course it's not impossible, but there's no evidence, even anecdotal, of any trickery or fraud. Dig some evidence up for it and you'd have a case, and an actual argument. Without it there is nothing.

    That there's "no question in your mind" that it was the Olympic that sunk - that this really is a grand conspiracy - is not the best approach to take, because you've already made up your mind, it seems, regardless of the actual evidence. With the greatest respect, there has to always be a question - there has to be many questions *ALWAYS* - with any conspiracy or mystery. Particularly in this case, I would say, when ALL the substantiating data is stacked overwhelmingly against it. Shady individuals and a chain of coincidences is a pretty flimsy platform for a conspiracy theory. There is a danger, sometimes, of falling in with the 'in-vogue' coolness of a meme, and believing in a conspiracy theory simply for the sake that it exists.

    Physical, tangible evidence always always always trumps circumstantial evidence, and this theory only has circumstantial evidence going for it. The physical, tangible evidence refutes it at every point. The theory of mass murder at sea for an insurance scam, etc, may well appear on the surface as plausible, but the reality is that it is just air and smoke.
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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    It's all here in one of last year's threads:

    The Titanic Cover-up Unravels

    and in this documentary:

    Part 1: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HnGEK4b1rqg
    Part 2: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QcOEB8ncf2M
    Part 3: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w9YqHFzFA0c
    Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDaIn4xP8P0
    Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IH126Usci8

    I'm not surprised to find the movie and much more documentary evidence here on Avalon, a feat which would be unthinkable in most other forums.
    Last edited by Hym; 6th February 2016 at 17:20.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Quote Posted by Hey it's me (here)
    It's all here in one of last year's threads:

    The Titanic Cover-up Unravels

    and in this documentary:

    Part 1: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HnGEK4b1rqg
    Part 2: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QcOEB8ncf2M
    Part 3: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w9YqHFzFA0c
    Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDaIn4xP8P0
    Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IH126Usci8

    I'm not surprised to find the movie and much more documentary evidence here on Avalon, a feat which would be unthinkable in most other forums.
    This appears more than plausible... not sure why people would say there is nothing?... o.O? the motivation, we're talking about taking over the world... the elimination of political enemies, millions in insurance, the fate of 20,000 jobs, the downfall of a government... what is the murder of a thousands of people to these men? although it looks like a comedy of errors, typical of elaborate schemes with no dress rehearsal... gross mistakes are inevitably made... the "accidents" that happened to the Olympic... and it just chugged along into the sunset? ...that is what sounds implausible to me. In fact everything I have ever heard points to a massive fraud. There appears to be so much evidence at so many different levels, I honestly don't understand how anyone can't see it... it just reeks of scandal, fraud, coverup, political subterfuge, endless anomalies, skullduggery, numerous eyewitness accounts of innocent bystanders... seriously, where does one begin? There must be dozens of videos like this, but this was a good one...
    Last edited by sigma6; 7th February 2016 at 06:16.
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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    I'm sure this has been posted and discussed before but I found this comparison rather interesting.

    Looks pretty convincing to me...


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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    This compelling video explains the conspiracy (and continues to be taken down from YouTube and resurrected)...


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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by sigma6 (here)
    re: 401...
    or they could have just switched the paperwork, before hand... and everything you are saying is backward... (sorry if that sounds too simple, but like all magic tricks, that is usually how it's done... simply..) no question in my mind it was the Olympic...
    I think that sounds a bit too simple. And simple tricks are easily seen through, even if they are effective. The RMS Olympic was registered as ship 400, its parts ordered, fabricated (with that number) and installed, ahead of Titanic (ship 401) by several months. All the documentary and photographic evidence backs this up. Of course it's not impossible, but there's no evidence, even anecdotal, of any trickery or fraud. Dig some evidence up for it and you'd have a case, and an actual argument. Without it there is nothing.

    That there's "no question in your mind" that it was the Olympic that sunk - that this really is a grand conspiracy - is not the best approach to take, because you've already made up your mind, it seems, regardless of the actual evidence. With the greatest respect, there has to always be a question - there has to be many questions *ALWAYS* - with any conspiracy or mystery. Particularly in this case, I would say, when ALL the substantiating data is stacked overwhelmingly against it. Shady individuals and a chain of coincidences is a pretty flimsy platform for a conspiracy theory. There is a danger, sometimes, of falling in with the 'in-vogue' coolness of a meme, and believing in a conspiracy theory simply for the sake that it exists.

    Physical, tangible evidence always always always trumps circumstantial evidence, and this theory only has circumstantial evidence going for it. The physical, tangible evidence refutes it at every point. The theory of mass murder at sea for an insurance scam, etc, may well appear on the surface as plausible, but the reality is that it is just air and smoke.

    Well I have to say here that I did not open this thread about the conspiracy of the Titanic/Olympic debate and frankly, I have not followed the discussion, so to a large degree, this has come as a bit of surprise to me and what a juicy one it is.


    Right off, I had no conclusions one way or another. As this topic has been covered quite extensively, I won't delve into it like the researchers above have and with great discipline I might add.


    At this point, with all of the Federal Reserve/WW1 backdrop, I'm inclined to follow along the lines of a true social paradigm change (for the worst) at the turn of the century by the scum-bucket bankers both then and now.


    So it does NOT surprise me one cent if these ships were switched out just as described, of course, we know that the "Cabal" typically aims to target more that just one objective in their devilish plots - this instance, reap the insurance and kill off the men standing in their way of the Fed Res creation.


    So the evidence for me that these two ships were indeed switched, is simply in the photographic evidence to the degree of the "smoking gun" below:


    Image taken of the vessel on the sea floor showing the windows clearly visible:





    Close up of above of the window shape and configuration of the vessel on the sea floor:





    Image of the two vessels showing the exposed starboard side windows:








    The Port Side of the Olympic for reference:




    To my eyes, the conclusion is straightforward and irrefutable.

    The vessel laying on the Atlantic floor as indicated above is in fact, RMS OLYMIPIC and NOT The Titanic.
    Last edited by M-Albion-3D; 8th February 2016 at 08:33.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    The above images only prove that the wreck of the Titanic is actually the Titanic.

    There has possibly been some jiggery-pokery by the author of these images, because they don't add up.

    Quote Posted by M-Albion-3D (here)
    The Titanic leaving Southampton. Same windows configuration as the wreck.


    The window patterns match.

    I don't think there's a conspiracy here, not based on any of the 'circumstantial' (and potentially doctored) evidence presented.

    Another image, possibly one of the last ever taken of her off shore at Cobh, near Cork, Ireland, April 11th 1912.



    Edit*

    It's interesting to note the evenly-spaced larger windows seen at the bottom of this image. Purportedly representing the Titanic...

    Quote Posted by M-Albion-3D (here)
    But it is incorreect, as already shown. In fact, this window configuration could possibly be attributed to the HMHS Britannic, also of the Olympic-class, which was torpedoed during WWI.



    This is possibly the source of the jigger-pokery.
    Last edited by Mark (Star Mariner); 8th February 2016 at 14:16.
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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Hmm, great catch Star Mariner. Clearly the many images available of these two vessels have been manipulated or the wording misplaced. So I agree, not so clear cut after all, I'm new at this particular conspiracy so I need to look a little deeper I think.

    But the plot does thicken when one "takes in" the totality of the evidence which does seem to support a vessel switch, the motives are very powerful here.

    Nonetheless, I did find some evidence which is curious to say the very least. Take a look at the two ships supposedly in Belfast. The red rectangles are not mine and was included in the acquired image. The other red inclusions are mine.


    Something very strange here as the vessel on the right, supposedly the Titanic looks more like the Olympic to me. Again, note the windows, their spacing and their configuration...just as in the wreck images. I'm not saying this is conclusive evidence, but it does raise questions.


    And there is also the question of the huge markings on the vessel bow which needs to be explained. Will post those images shortly, out the door right now. Thanks!








    Last edited by M-Albion-3D; 9th February 2016 at 08:33.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Good thread we did this a couple of years ago , I remember copy & pasting
    quite a few pictures , some of which are above. The collision with HMS Hawke
    was severe.

    ==================================================


    There have been several threads on this I just found a few of them , there is
    compellingevidence that Titanic and Olympic were switched and deliberately set up
    to sink on itsmaiden voyage , though loss of life was supposed to be minimal
    explained in this vid, which Selene has posted .........

    Coincidence.....

    what is really haunting is the chartered rescue ship with a cargo of 3000 heavy
    woollen sweaters and 3000 woollen blankets waiting in the wrong place , that could
    have saved everyone. If this part is true than the rest is not a stretch imo.


    SS Californian on the morning after Titanic sank






    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post927901

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ship Lost Place .................... Year ................. Fatalities

    Canadian ................MidAtlantic .......... 1863 ...... 45
    Immigrant ship ..........Off Cape Race ..... 1864 . .. 158
    Vicksburg .................Off Cape Race .... 1869 ..... . 65
    Warrior ....................Grand Banks ...... 1878 ...... . 29
    North Star ...............Cabot Straits ...... 1881 ....... 67
    Medway ..................Off Newfondland . 1887 ....... 29
    Valliant ...................Grand Banks ....... 1897 ....... 70
    Snowbird ................Cape Race ......... 1898 ......... 6
    Endymion ................Grand Banks ....... 1900 ........ 8
    Islander ..................Off Alaska .......... 1901 ....... 67
    Albatross ................Mid Atlantic .. . ... 1903 ....... 24


    Titanic ..............Mid Atlantic.............. 1912 .... 1234 Wiki says( 1514)

    The figure in the website seems low....


    http://www.webtitanic.net/frameice.html

    There have been loads of theories connected with Bankers & Ship owners
    for the sinking of the Titanic , I was wondering how common it was for
    ships to be sunk by Ice bergs in the period and the answer considering
    all the shipping was very few....and only two in mid Atlanic before her...

    One theory is that the Captain was so confident of not sinking he and
    the crew were neglegent and were going to fast to try and break the
    record for a Atlantic crossing........

    Its like 9/11 and all the other scams in history something just does
    not feel right ....

    Rest in peace all the victims of the incompatence/arragance or criminality
    of not having sufficiant life craft or survival stratagy if disaster struck..




    Secrets of the Titanic ~ On the 100 Year Anniversary

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ar-Anniversary


    RMS Titanic was in fact the RMS Olympic - Insurance fraud by JP Morgan

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...merset+Titanic

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The HMS Hawke, Naval Ramming, Submarine Technology, and the RMS Titanic Disaster

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...hlight=Titanic

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Default Was the Titanic deliberately sunk by JP Morgan? (video)

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Morgan--video-

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 9th February 2016 at 01:38.

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    East Cowes
    R.M.S. Olympic
    Wednesday 20th September 1911

    A collision occurred off Cowes between R.M.S. Olympic and the Royal Navy first class cruiser H.M.S. Hawke.

    The Olympic left Southampton at 11.25 with 1313 passengers onboard and slowly made her way down Southampton Water it was only on the liners fifth crossing to New York since her maiden voyage on the 14th June.



    Picture of RMS Olympic


    People were lining the front at Cowes to watch the great liner, which was capable of carrying some 3,000 passengers, and crew slowly come down Southampton Water then rounding Bramble Buoy [12.43 pm] to head eastwards down the Solent and the speed was increased to 16 knots. At the same time coming up the Solent from the Needles at speed, but some distance behind, was the cruiser HMS Hawke; the cruiser had been on sea trials and was returning to Portsmouth.
    The event

    The weather was squally and rain was falling as the Hawke quickly drew level on the starboard side of the Olympic near the Prince Consort Shoal Buoy, the two ships then sailed together for a short while; the time was almost 1.00 pm. The Hawke appeared to slow to allow the Olympic to move ahead then veered to the port in order to pass under the liners stern, the move resulted in the cruiser hitting the liner some 50 feet from her stern. The liner was holed and flooding occurred in two compartments, the cruiser suffered major damaged to its bow. From the shore people could see the two ships locked together with the Hawke’s bow embedded in the stern of the Olympic. For what seemed an eternity the two ships were locked together, bulkheads in both ships were closed and there was no threat of sinking, then the Hawke went astern and the extent of damage to both ships could be seen. There was a 15 ft gash tapering below the water at the stern of the Olympic, and the bow of Hawke was severally damaged.

    The two Cowes tugs Irishman and Malta sailed out to render any assistance to the liner they could as she appeared to drift towards Osborne Bay, however the ship was able to turn and steam back into Cowes Roads under her own steam and anchor. The liner remained at anchor that night and was a spectacle with all her lights ablaze, the liners stern was down by several feet and the ships pumps were kept working to kept the water from rising.

    News of the collision had been reported to the navel authorities at Portsmouth and the support vessels Volcano and Grappler both fitted with powerful pumps were dispatched to render assistant. The Hawke was surrounded with collision mats and must have taken on a lot of water in the forward compartments, but the bulkhead held. The cruiser was able to make slow progress up the Solent to Portsmouth Dockyard with both tugs in attendance.
    After the event

    Whilst the Olympic was anchored in Cowes Roads the captain issued orders that, no one was to leave or board the ship except officials of the White Star Line. However one enterprising American in a hurry to get back to America, lower a rope through one of the portholes and hailed a passing boatman, climbing down the rope he was taken ashore, and caught the steamer back to Southampton.

    In the evening the Southampton and IW. passenger steamer Duchess of York came alongside and took off around 100 passengers off who were in a hurry to get to London. When the passengers finally returned to Southampton they all spoke highly of the events and organisation that occurred after the collision.

    A passenger on the liner described how he was on deck and saw the collision unfold, the cruiser was running parallel to the liner on the starboard side, a little too close he thought, and appeared to be trying to pass astern of the Olympic but was to close to make the manoeuvre, and the bow of the cruiser plunged into the stern of the liner.
    Return to Southampton

    At 8.30 am the following morning Olympic weighed anchor and was towed back to Southampton by five tugs. Getting the liner back to Southampton took upwards of 3 hours as the ship was carrying almost 40 ft of water in her damaged compartments At the time of the collision there were 365 first class, 360 second class and 614 third class passengers onboard and the crew number approximately 870. The liner was due to call at Cherbourg and Queenstown and collect more passengers her final complement would have been almost 3000 people.

    When Olympic docked in Southampton the full impact of the collision could be seen, there was a jagged triangular hole some 15ft by 10 ft just forward of the rudder, and the plating had been forced inward some 5 to 6 ft. It was reported that the more serious damage was below the waterline but no detail are quoted. Arrangements were made for passengers who wanted to continue their journey by transferring other liners and for other; a special train was laid on to take them to London.

    Olympic was towed back to Harland and Wolfe in Belfast for repairs and in order to get the ship back into service e a quick as possible the twisted propeller shaft was replace by one from Titanic which was being built in the same yard.
    HMS Hawke
    Picture of HMS Hawke


    When HMS Hawke was examined in the dockyard the full extent of the damage could be seen; the bow completed smashed and forced round to starboard, a complete new front section would be needed before the ship could sail again. When reporters interviewed Hawke crewmembers they could give no reason why the ship suddenly changed course, and the said they were taken by surprise when the two ships collided, all they heard was the ship telegraph signal to the engine room to stop engines, followed “reverse engines”. They stated that the cause of the collision would have to be established by a court of inquiry at a future date.
    The Inquiry

    The inquiry later found that the Olympic was going too fast [16 Knots] for the conditions and her wash sucked the smaller ship in, causing the collision.
    Picture of collision damage
    Collision Damage





    RMS. Olympics Statistics
    Owner:- White Star Line’
    Builder:- Harland and Wolff, Belfast
    Class:- Olympic class ocean liners
    Launched:- 20th October 1910
    Completed:- 31st May 1911
    Maiden voyage:- 14th June 1911
    Tonnage:- 45,324 tons
    Displacement:- 52,067 tons
    Installed power:- 24 double-ended [6 furnace] and 5 single ended [3 furnace] Scotch boilers. Two four-cylinder triple expansion reciprocating engines, each producing 15,000 hp for two outboard wing propellers at 75 revolutions per minute. One low pressure turbine producing 16,000 hp. A total of 59,000 hp could be produced at maximum revolutions.
    This new design layout was more efficient consuming only 650 tons/hr against the previous 1000 tons/hr.
    Propulsion:- Two bronze triple blade wing propellers and one bronze quadruple blade centre propeller.
    Speed [normal]:- 21 Knots [24 mph]. Note did achieve over 22 knots on a voyage from New York to Southampton.
    Service history:- Saw service in the First World War, including ramming and sinking U-boat No. U-103.
    The end:- With the merger of White Star and Cunard in 1934 there was now surplus of ships and with Olympics becoming expensive to run a decision was taken to withdraw the ship from service. In 1935 the ship was sold for £100,000 and taken to Jarrow for scraping, what remained of the ship was finally taken to Inverkeithing, Scotland in 1937, to be broken up, the end of a great ship.





    HMS. Hawke Statistics
    Built:- Chatham Dockyards 1891
    Type:- First-class, tw in-screw protected cruiser
    Weight:- 7,350 tons
    Size:- Length 360 ft, Width 60 ft, Draught 24 ft.
    Speed:- 20 Knots.
    Range:- 10,000 miles.
    Crew:- 544.
    Cost:- £400,702.
    Sunk:- 15th October 1914. By a German submarine.

    Editors note:- It is reported that the clock from the grand staircase in the Olympic is in the Southampton Maritime Museum.

    Titanic and Olympic side by side Befast Docks..




    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post468607

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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    Quote Posted by M-Albion-3D (here)

    But the plot does thicken when one "takes in" the totality of the evidence which does seem to support a vessel switch, the motives are very powerful here.

    Nonetheless, I did find some evidence which is curious to say the very least. Take a look at the two ships supposedly in Belfast. The red rectangles are not mine and was included in the acquired image. The other red inclusions are mine.

    Something very strange here as the vessel on the right, supposedly the Titanic looks more like the Olympic to me. Again, note the windows, their spacing and their configuration...just as in the wreck images. I'm not saying this is conclusive evidence, but it does raise questions.

    And there is also the question of the huge markings on the vessel bow which needs to be explained. Will post those images shortly, out the door right now. Thanks!

    Yeh I know what you mean. This is actually a complex conspiracy, simply because the very crux of it rests on photographic evidence (and little else) - and of two objects that are ostensibly identical. Both Olympic and Titanic were ships of the same class, and were virtually the same inside and out - except that, with the Titanic, alterations were made late in the fitting-out to make her stand out as the crème de le crème, the most lavish liner ever built, exceeding her sister-ship, which is why there are images of her with two slightly different configurations (one, when seen in her Belfast days, before the luxury extras were added, and the other from later on, after the modifications were made).

    This image shows the same ship, the Titanic, the top one when under construction in Belfast, and second beneath it much later, on her maiden voyage.

    Click image for larger version

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    Note the differences in A Deck, they can be clearly seen here - which you pointed out Albion. It was an open deck at first, but later on, during fitting-out, this 'open plan' promenade was closed off. "...This was installed as a last minute change at the personal request of Bruce Ismay, and was intended to provide additional shelter to first class passengers. These changes made Titanic slightly heavier than her sister, and thus she could claim to be the largest ship afloat. The work took longer than expected due to design changes requested by Ismay and a temporary pause in work occasioned by the need to repair Olympic, which had been in a collision in September 1911..." (Source).

    Here's another, this time illustrating the changes to B deck.


    That's Titanic during her initial launch in Belfast. Note the evenly spaced large windows of B deck, quite different to the pictures you see of her on the day of her maiden voyage in April 1912. I could amend what I posted earlier, where I suggested Britannic was possibly responsible for the earlier image of this same windows configuration, but this is likely it. It was still the Titanic.

    Here's another. Titanic had these evenly spaced large windows along the forward half of B deck when this part of the hull was first fabricated (it was drawn from the same plans as the Olympic remember, and was the same plan for Britannic later on) but with the Titanic it was later refined and customized as per Bruce Ismay's instructions. On the left, during launch in Belfast, on the right, on maiden voyage in Southampton. The reason for the change was, instead as the same promenade on Olympic's B deck, two private (and highly luxurious) verandas and suites were added to Titanic, hence necessitating a change in the B deck window configurations.9(Source)
    Click image for larger version

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    Conclusion:
    I don't believe at this current point the Olympic and Titanic were switched. BUT, was the Titanic still deliberately sunk for whatever nefarious reason? Possibly, based on what is still arguably circumstantial evidence, and knowing what we do about corporate greed, the Fed Reserve, etc, etc, it's definitely feasible. Yet still, in my mind, it feels unlikely. And that's simply because it was a massive, epic fail. 1,500 people lost their lives, let us never forget this. Included among the dead was the Captain himself on his final, retiring voyage. He'd certainly have to be in on it. Thomas Andrews, the designer. He'd certainly have to be in on it too. Many other officers, and hundreds of innocents met their end. You have to wonder what they hell they were thinking if this was a deliberate act! A total screw up in any case, a mega-disaster which pretty much spelled the end for White Star financially, and in the public eye.

    I don't rule out a conspiracy somewhere in here, but I do doubt the ships were switched, or that White Star itself, if this really happened, was actually behind it. I've read Riddle of the Titanic three times over years, and that's simply because it is the best forensic investigation into the sinking that you will find anywhere I think. The 'conspiracy theory' that comes later in the book, is less compelling, even though it's apparently the book's key selling point. In any case, it is a fascinating read which I highly recommend. But I am less convinced now by the theory than I was when I first read it, probably twenty years ago. And I'd have to read it again to familiarize myself with all its pros and cons, but from what I can see, understand, and judge, now, today, with all the photographic evidence and other historical facts presented in this thread and elsewhere, they together more or less repudiate what the authors originally put forward...as being a highly (circumstantially) plausible theory (and very entertaining), without a whole lot to back it up.
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    Default Re: The Wreck of the TITAN!

    I freely admit, I have not taken the time really to look into this complex and potentially conspiratorial account as many here have on the forum and do appreciate there is so much to consider. In some ways this allows me to use my inner senses. And what I "feel"...is there are many things just do not add up. This troubles me.


    Let's look at the hypothetical alternative. It seems for certain (and I say that somewhat loosely) if these three VIP's had made it back to the US and continued on their quest to derail the creation of "a central bank", the results would have been catastrophic for the puppet masters of the day and the decades to come. This was an outcome imo, that the scoundrels were not going to allow happen...under NO circumstances. Their resolve I believe, gave their misanthropic sense of destiny the permission to undertake ANY action to that end. To the degree of murdering 1,500 innocent people? Perhaps not, as long as they could save them in the process.


    By virtue of the SS Californian leaving port some 5 days earlier and stopping within very close proximity of the tragedy location....without any paying customers on board and over 3,000 blankets and woolen sweaters as her only cargo, just reeks of "malice of forethought"!


    The event occurred over 100 years ago and in my mind, this has been ample time to tweak, twist, forge and defraud any evidence either past or new which could possibly expose a conspiracy. And, that even includes the possible tampering of the latest photographic evidence of the wreck itself. After all, IF any one single piece of unequivical evidence turned up, that in itself, would have the potential to stoke a firestorm of reinvestigation that even today, the puppet masters would not want to happen.

    The result could create a domino effect, a proverbial "revolution of the mind in the masses"!


    I have just read the book "The Wreck of The Titan" and I have to say, the similarities which parallel the actual tragedy are simply astonishing and frankly impossible to correlate under normal patterns of human thought. There is simply NO coincidence here. It is, the story of the tradegy some 14 years before the event occurred. Period.


    The really BIG question in my mind is of course, how did this prediction manifest and why?


    It has been said many times, that in order to circumvent the trauma of karmic vengeance (for want of a better expression) the cabal (and ALL who sail in her) must advise, tell or warn of their actions before it takes place, something along the lines of "inviting the vampire into one's home" fable.


    In some ways, is James Cameron's movie "Titanic" trying to subtly tell us of the truth in the same way the late Stanley Kubrick did concerning the moon landings in his movie array, The Shining and others?


    Here's a clip from the Titanic where Caledon Hockley (Billy Zane) engages in some apparent conspiratorial conversation, discussing the "so-named" Sherman Act with John Astor, Benjamin Guggenheim and Isisdor Strauss. The clip was only a few seconds long and the audio had to cranked up to hear the conversation. There are several other intriguing incidents in this movie if you can catch the subtle nuances.


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--...ew?usp=sharing


    Last edited by M-Albion-3D; 11th February 2016 at 20:57.

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to M-Albion-3D For This Post:

    Mark (Star Mariner) (12th February 2016)

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