A major key to a long and healthy life: fasting or a ketogenic diet

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by seah (here)
I wonder what your opinion is on the information that as we age, our stomach's ability to break down and absorb supplements becomes an issue, unless the supplement is in liquid form.
I have found this to be true for me with some vitamins, such as D and some B's, the problem is that many don't come in that format...what then?

Some people may have more trouble than others digesting supplements, and some forms of supplements may be more difficult to digest.

I would expect (and personally experience) that some people well into the second half of their life can easily digest some supplements, in a variety of physical formats - tablets, capsules and liquid.

Your mileage may vary, and eventually we each have to figure out for ourselves which supplement forms work for us.

Just as important, perhaps more important, than the physical format is the choice of molecular compounds. Most interesting isolated supplements come in the form of molecules, bound to something else. For example, magnesium might come in the form of magnesium bicarbonate, magnesium chloride, magnesium carbonate, magnesium oxide, magnesium amino acid chelate, magnesium malate, magnesium taurinate, magnesium citrate, magnesium sulphate, magnesium hydroxide, magnesium phosphate, magnesium lactate, magnesium malate, magnesium orotate, ... and likely a few others I didn't list. Some forms are liquid only, some are almost useless to anyone as they do not dissolve, some make for larger pills, some are more expensive, ... there are various tradeoffs.

Going liquid only, while it may be necessary for some, also costs more and substantially limits the variety of supplements available. It's a tradeoff we each have to make, and simply looking at one's age is not going to determine what's right for anyone of us.

[Demeisen]

I have to say I’m a bit skeptic about the low carb/high fat diet. I wish to specifically comment on the diet versus blood sugar phenomena based on what I currently know (which may or may not be much).

As I understand it, the problem with many studies is that they are generally too short to make final conclusions.

I just read about one research that compared normal diabetic diet (low fat) versus low carb high fat diet. The study was exceptionally 2 years, instead of usual 6 months or something. At the 6 months mark there was a clear improvement in blood sugar levels for those with low carb diet. But after that the results started to decline. At the end of the study the low carb diet was not undeniably better than low fat diet. And this is pretty much the argument I have heard from other sources too: You may get initial improvement, but within longer period the situation declines again.

Some time ago I watched a program about two physiologically identical twin brothers comparing low carb high fat diet with high carb high sugar diet. I’m sorry I don’t know the name of the program, but it was British. Perhaps some here have seen it. Unexpectedly the brother with low carb high fat diet started to show increased insulin resistance, while the other brother with high carb high sugar did not. Also the one with low carb suffered tiredness and low physical performance. There was also noted a loss of muscle tissue which was the actual reason for weight loss. The conclusion was that avoiding carbs actually declined the body's ability to handle them. However, it was also mentioned that it was just one specific case of study and should not be considered as definitive conclusion.

My personal experience with low carb diet couple of years back was not successful either. After 3 weeks I became so ill that I simply couldn’t go on with it any longer. I believe it was that my body went to ketosis (which is apparently the goal for low carb diet), but for me it just caused suffering, which I couldn’t handle on top of my other issues. So, to summarize all this, in my opinion the low carb diet is not a perfect fit for everybody. As it it with everything that has anything to do with human diet: for every promising study, there is one that counters it. There does not seem to be conclusive truth, which is a real bummer.

[TargeT]

Posted by Demeisen (here)
Some time ago I watched a program about two physiologically identical twin brothers comparing low carb high fat diet with high carb high sugar diet. I’m sorry I don’t know the name of the program, but it was British. Perhaps some here have seen it. Unexpectedly the brother with low carb high fat diet started to show increased insulin resistance, while the other brother with high carb high sugar did not. Also the one with low carb suffered tiredness and low physical performance. There was also noted a loss of muscle tissue which was the actual reason for weight loss. The conclusion was that avoiding carbs actually declined the body's ability to handle them. However, it was also mentioned that it was just one specific case of study and should not be considered as definitive conclusion.

That sounds pretty much like exactly the opposite of the experiences I've read of and had myself.

The theory here is that constant bombardment by high levels of glucose cause cells to become insulin resistant (diabetes) which causes obesity, heart disease etc etc etc... basically too much sugar is bad, too much sugar through out your entire life can very well kill you.

here's a good 15 min ted talk on the topic:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY

[RunningDeer]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Demeisen (here)
Some time ago I watched a program about two physiologically identical twin brothers comparing low carb high fat diet with high carb high sugar diet. I’m sorry I don’t know the name of the program, but it was British. Perhaps some here have seen it. Unexpectedly the brother with low carb high fat diet started to show increased insulin resistance, while the other brother with high carb high sugar did not. Also the one with low carb suffered tiredness and low physical performance. There was also noted a loss of muscle tissue which was the actual reason for weight loss. The conclusion was that avoiding carbs actually declined the body's ability to handle them. However, it was also mentioned that it was just one specific case of study and should not be considered as definitive conclusion.

That sounds pretty much like exactly the opposite of the experiences I've read of and had myself.

The theory here is that constant bombardment by high levels of glucose cause cells to become insulin resistant (diabetes) which causes obesity, heart disease etc etc etc... basically too much sugar is bad, too much sugar through out your entire life can very well kill you.

here's a good 15 min ted talk on the topic:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY

Powerful video on several levels. Here’s the summary in case folks want to check out more from Peter Attia.

"Peter Attia: What if we're wrong about diabetes?"

Published on Jun 25, 2013

As a young ER doctor, Peter Attia felt contempt for a patient with diabetes. She was overweight, he thought, and thus responsible for the fact that she needed a foot amputation. But years later, Attia received an unpleasant medical surprise that led him to wonder: is our understanding of diabetes right? Could the precursors to diabetes cause obesity, and not the other way around? A look at how assumptions may be leading us to wage the wrong medical war.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Demeisen (here)
My personal experience with low carb diet couple of years back was not successful either. After 3 weeks I became so ill that I simply couldn’t go on with it any longer. I believe it was that my body went to ketosis (which is apparently the goal for low carb diet), but for me it just caused suffering, which I couldn’t handle on top of my other issues. So, to summarize all this, in my opinion the low carb diet is not a perfect fit for everybody. As it it with everything that has anything to do with human diet: for every promising study, there is one that counters it. There does not seem to be conclusive truth, which is a real bummer.

Yes - ketosis is the goal, in some cases.

I would distinguish between high fat diets that don't put one in ketosis, versus one's that do. Typically some sort of monitoring, at least lower cost urine ketone strips for the first month, or more accurately and expensively Abbott Labs Precision Xtra blood ketone strips (about $5/test), are quite useful.

Research trials of high fat, low carb diets that don't indicate whether or not the subjects went into ketosis are missing a key detail, and so difficult to draw conclusions from.

The goal of going into ketosis is to stop using glucose (from sugars and carbohydrates) as one's primary fuel. Burning ketones in the body, where that's doable (most muscle and much brain energy can be gotten that way) is cleaner than burning glucose. In my present view, the oxidative byproducts thrown off by burning glucose (the typical energy source for almost anyone on a "Western" diet) are a major source of the stress and damage to our body that results in various chronic illnesses, depending on what one's weak link(s) are.

It's like switching one's car from burning petro to electric ... it's cleaner.

Yes, one can get sick, especially in the first month, of going into ketosis. Such a major change in diet can result in too much or too little of something that one's body needs, or can cause too much of a detox reaction as toxins buried in one's fat stores are released into the blood stream when that fat is burned. I'm sure that ketosis is the wrong answer for some people.

Ketosis is sure working for me however .

It's more expensive ... good fats are not as cheap as all the junk food in the major grocery stores or fast food restaurants. If hard times come, I'll have to fall back to rice and beans or some such, and go off ketosis. But while I can, I intend to remain in ketosis. My ability to do prolonged mental work, with focused, productive, attention for hours on end, is better than it has been in perhaps 20 years, and other signs of good health are showing up as well. Weight is becoming more ideal, blood glucose is nice and low, and blood pressure is down to approx 115/68. I took a full blood panel before I started, and expect to take another in a few months, when I hope to see nicely lowered levels for Hemoglobin A1C, Homocysteine, and C-Reactive Protein (CRP), all of which correlate with reduced oxidative or glycogenic stress on tissues.

[TargeT]

Posted by Paul (here)
Ketosis is sure working for me however .

It's more expensive ... good fats are not as cheap as all the junk food in the major grocery stores or fast food restaurants.

Mix in regular periodic fasting (who came up with this 3 meals a day crap anyway? or that breakfast is the most important meal of the day... ) and it balances it out quite nicely. Caloric restriction is a great companion to L.C.H.F. when seeking Ketosis (this forces your body to "burn off" the easy fast sugars.. glucose and the like).

don't forget to put a half stick of (unsalted -grass fed) butter in your cup of coffee with a touch of stevia and mix well (creamy deliciousness will follow).

[Olam]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Demeisen (here)
My personal experience with low carb diet couple of years back was not successful either. After 3 weeks I became so ill that I simply couldn’t go on with it any longer. I believe it was that my body went to ketosis (which is apparently the goal for low carb diet), but for me it just caused suffering, which I couldn’t handle on top of my other issues. So, to summarize all this, in my opinion the low carb diet is not a perfect fit for everybody. As it it with everything that has anything to do with human diet: for every promising study, there is one that counters it. There does not seem to be conclusive truth, which is a real bummer.

Yes - ketosis is the goal, in some cases.

I would distinguish between high fat diets that don't put one in ketosis, versus one's that do. Typically some sort of monitoring, at least lower cost urine ketone strips for the first month, or more accurately and expensively Abbott Labs Precision Xtra blood ketone strips (about $5/test), are quite useful.

Research trials of high fat, low carb diets that don't indicate whether or not the subjects went into ketosis are missing a key detail, and so difficult to draw conclusions from.

The goal of going into ketosis is to stop using glucose (from sugars and carbohydrates) as one's primary fuel. Burning ketones in the body, where that's doable (most muscle and much brain energy can be gotten that way) is cleaner than burning glucose. In my present view, the oxidative byproducts thrown off by burning glucose (the typical energy source for almost anyone on a "Western" diet) are a major source of the stress and damage to our body that results in various chronic illnesses, depending on what one's weak link(s) are.

It's like switching one's car from burning petro to electric ... it's cleaner.

Yes, one can get sick, especially in the first month, of going into ketosis. Such a major change in diet can result in too much or too little of something that one's body needs, or can cause too much of a detox reaction as toxins buried in one's fat stores are released into the blood stream when that fat is burned. I'm sure that ketosis is the wrong answer for some people.

Ketosis is sure working for me however .

It's more expensive ... good fats are not as cheap as all the junk food in the major grocery stores or fast food restaurants. If hard times come, I'll have to fall back to rice and beans or some such, and go off ketosis. But while I can, I intend to remain in ketosis. My ability to do prolonged mental work, with focused, productive, attention for hours on end, is better than it has been in perhaps 20 years, and other signs of good health are showing up as well. Weight is becoming more ideal, blood glucose is nice and low, and blood pressure is down to approx 115/68. I took a full blood panel before I started, and expect to take another in a few months, when I hope to see nicely lowered levels for Hemoglobin A1C, Homocysteine, and C-Reactive Protein (CRP), all of which correlate with reduced oxidative or glycogenic stress on tissues.

This is good info, one detail though , I would mention that ketone urine strips are not a very good way to monitor since your body eliminates unused ketones via the urine.
If your body eliminates the ketones its because your are not really in ketosis. It eliminates because it has glucose it can use..
Just like monitoring your acid levels with urine strips is not good either as the body eliminates acidity thru the urine.
So if you have alkaline urine, then it means you are mainly acid as the body did not eliminate the acidity!

A blood glucose/ketone meter is the best way to go.
You want your glucose to be below 4.5 mmol/l and your ketones to be at least 1.5 mmol/l.
Thats in a fasted state. Its normal for glucose levels to creep up after a meal, but it should not be very high and you should go back to the mentioned levels after mabe 2-3 hours after the meal.
Then the next indication after that to see if you are really keto adapted is to see if at those levels you have energy all day and are not crashing out after a meal.

Personally, I have just reached this keto adapted level after 2 months of working on it.
I now sleep better and lost 4 pounds in a month eating fat..!!

cheers

[TargeT]

Certainly these two aren't related.......

Number of adults with diabetes has quadrupled since 1980: WHO
ENEVA (AFP) -

The number of adults estimated to be living with diabetes surged to 422 million by 2014, a nearly four-fold increase on 1980 figures, the World Health Organization (WHO) said Wednesday, in its first-ever global report on the disease.

"Globally, an estimated 422 million adults were living with diabetes in 2014, compared to 108 million in 1980," the UN health agency said, warning that the condition had spread because of worldwide changes "in the way people eat, move and live."

http://www.france24.com/en/20160406-...upled-1980-who

Hmm.....

High fructose corn syrup
After being classified as "generally recognized as safe" (GRAS) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 1976,[24] HFCS began to replace sucrose as the main sweetener of soft drinks in the United States. At the same time, rates of obesity rose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fructose_corn_syrup

[Demeisen]

Thanks for good comments. How would you see low carb diet suit for a person who is little on the under-weighted side? Limiting carbs intake certainly makes you lose weight, but what if that's not desirable? The problem for me is the constant hunger which no other snacks seem to alleviate but bread. Being hungry and under-weighted is not a good combination, I think.

[TargeT]

Posted by Demeisen (here)
Limiting carbs intake certainly makes you lose weight, but what if that's not desirable? The problem for me is the constant hunger which no other snacks seem to alleviate but bread. Being hungry and under-weighted is not a good combination, I think.

At least switch to a whole food carb , potatoes, yams, yukka root, plantains, bread fruit etc... (btw they all taste like variants of each other... haha) but honestly increasing your protein intake should help satisfy as well once you've weaned your self off sugars err.. "carbs". your body is likely only satisfied with bread because it knows it's easy sugar and your running like a humming bird right now (did you know they often add HFCS to bread?).

This is all a guess based on FAR too little info, so grain of salt and all that....

Sounds like you have a high metabolism and maybe are insulin resistant; so you don't have to worry about carbs since the insulin mechanism isn't an issue for you and you are probably metabolically overly active instead of under like those of us who look into LCHF.

The common thought on weight is, for the ‘average’ person, you need around 3500 calories to gain a pound. That’s 3500 calories over and above your maintenance weight!(which will be a higher caloric need to begin with due to your metabolism) Likewise, for every 3500 calories of deficit your body has, you will potentially lose a pound of fat reserves.

One of the simplest ways to intentionally increase your caloric intake is to add a mass gainer to your daily routine (find them at GNC, walmart etc...).

Anywhere you can, try to put some extra calories in your food, particularly foods you already eat and enjoy, the key here you'll notice I$ eating a lot... haha.

• If you’re eating pasta, for example, put an extra two tablespoons of a healthy oil (say olive) in your pasta sauce. You probably won’t notice the difference.

• If you eat cereal for breakfast, try adding a sliced up banana and a spoon full of peanut butter to your routine.

• Drink a glass of milk with your meals, rather than a glass of water.

• If you eat a salad, make sure there’s some dressing on it, or maybe something tasty like goat cheese.


eat two or three large meals a day (L A R G E ) and don't eat in between, this can help put a damper on your metabolism (Sumo wrestlers only eat 2 large meals a day).

But really, experiment & keep a food log... it will help you fine tune your diet to your body.

[TargeT]

From the coconut oil thread... Looks like a Ketone based diet can prevent or even cure Alzheimer's?:

A few studies about the potential use of medium chain triglycerides or ketone bodies to not only treat but prevent Alzheimer’s disease caught Dr. Newport’s eye. Medium chain triglycerides are also regarded as a potential treatment for Parkinson’s disease, Huntington’s disease, multiple sclerosis, drug resistant epilepsy, and diabetes. Dr. Newport explains, “Ketone bodies may help the brain recover after a loss of oxygen in newborns through adults, may help the heart recover after an acute attack, and may shrink cancerous tumors. Children with drug resistant epilepsy sometimes respond to an extremely low carbohydrate ketogenic diet.”

The body’s cells may be able to use ketone bodies as an alternative fuel when glucose is unavailable. Ketone bodies do not normally circulate in the body unless it has been starving for a few days, or if one is on a very low-carb diet, such as Atkins. Dr. Newport explains, “In Alzheimer’s disease, the neurons in certain areas of the brain are unable to take in glucose due to insulin resistance, and slowly die off… if these cells had access to ketone bodies, they could potentially stay alive and continue to function.”

http://www.davidwolfe.com/2-tbs-coco...60-days-brain/

[Olam]

Posted by Demeisen (here)
Thanks for good comments. How would you see low carb diet suit for a person who is little on the under-weighted side? Limiting carbs intake certainly makes you lose weight, but what if that's not desirable? The problem for me is the constant hunger which no other snacks seem to alleviate but bread. Being hungry and under-weighted is not a good combination, I think.

Loosing weight on Keto is not guaranteed. In fact some people gain weight..
Everybody has a different metabolic system and so its up to you to adjust the fat intake to suit your needs.
For me for example, I have weight to loose, and so I eat fat, to a point, but to create a deficit of what I really need, forcing my body to use my fat as energy.
Once I get to a desired weight, I will adjust my fat intake, will take a bit more and this way I will be even with what I take and what my body needs.
There are tons of websites that help you calculate your macros, how much to take in protein and fat to fit your needs.

[Frenchy]

From Target = I only drink rain water I do run it through a paper (wood pulp) filter for larger particles since it's stored in large tanks that are fed from my roof & can pick up sediment. end Quote
( Hah Hah, Who's forgetting about those planes overhead ! )

Like your Avatar, but need new glasses ! btw listened to two Dutch guys promoting benefits of Mono-Atomic Gold....... My instinctiveness told me they were used car salesmen , retired from the Security Services ( pls don't say cia, they get blamed for enough !) [There ar others, ask Mr Icke 1]

As a potential aly, Targ, condisder the ' Antenna ' effcet of extra-Radio-phonic components in our bodies...... remember ' The Time Machine - bbc JulesVerne ? ) Buggering Boys & Children , as it's known in the UK !

[Frenchy]

Hi, Constant Hunger might suggest , you've un-invited guest ?

[Frenchy]

Hello Alan,
s eeing that tptb have so much control, would it be un-reasonable to presume that they have provided the Water filter industry , with Smart - Dust Technology, thereby fore-stalling , any ' Clean thinking Technologies of ours ?... such that the Filters we Trust, already have the Morgellons or other Body-Antenna creating tech within ? ( They ARE millions of years ahead of us... )

[TargeT]

Great sources for info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/keto

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains

I mean... L O T S of info...

[bettye198]

I have read all these posts and do have a comment. Our practice is mostly nutrition based with customized energetic and muscle testing. There is no guessing and it is a scientific preciseness that never lies. Not kinesiology. More advanced. That said, webinars from Doctors all over the globe are tapped into every week and studies are shown that have results. Understand this is out of the medical modality box but with full knowledge of how the biologic and neurobiology works.
The mitochondria was mentioned here and yes, it is the fuel of the cell ( it has its own DNA received from mother by the way) but what good is the mitochondria if the cell membrane is a hot mess? There are over 650 hormones that run the body and if disrupted at the cell wall, nothing gets thru and nothing gets out. This is the first red flag. Chronic illness.
Our goal is to nourish the cells, not starve them. All the fasting and ketoacidosis is like a child playing with a lit match. We think we get results but at what internal cost? Our body except for the stomach, needs alkaline foods. Almonds, vegies and fruits that appear acid but create an alkaline ash in the system. Cancer cannot exist in the presence of high potassium. Meaning more greens! Cancer needs fresh fruit because the fiber, pulp and meat of the fruit is anti cancer and anti viral. Meat should be sparingly consumed as it makes all the organs work harder, especially the kidney and without that function in 24 hrs we are all dead.
I am being simplistic but I understand the complexity of the workings of the human body. Gut is the second brain. Brain and heart accept disruptions elsewhere more than you know. If the kidneys are struggling you will have back up and brain fog. If the liver is in a toxic state, the heart can struggle.
I think the whole idea of detox and flushing the system is to take the first step judiciously. If your system is impaired all approaches must be cautious, not tactical. The reason why so many people who try this and get sick over it is reason enough. We don't need to feel awful. And healing crisis's can be managed at a low level.
We listen to the body's instructions of what it can handle through testing.
We need the antioxidants to prepare to rebuild the cell membrane coupled with clean eating. Then we can proceed with detox. Fasting will put the body into starvation. What can possibly nourish the cells during that time? Glucose in moderation with fresh fruit is needed for cellular exchange. Not fruit juices or soda pop or sugary foods.
A kind reminder would be in the book Medical Medium by Anthony William. He only accents what we already know with our patients.

[ThePythonicCow]

I am now about 2 months into a ketogenic diet - it's working very well. Basic signs of body health, such as blood pressure and weight are much better. Hours of mental alertness and productivity each day are way up. It's my diet and I'm sticking to it. I anticipate that I've added many years of good health to my life.

P.S. -- weight just went below 200 pounds, for the first time in perhaps 35 years .

[TargeT]

Posted by Paul (here)
P.S. -- weight just went below 200 pounds, for the first time in perhaps 35 years .

I just got down to 205,, looking to break the 200 barrier myself

Oh, and I don't exercise AT ALL ( knee hurts too much still). I've lost weight while being physically barely able to walk (knee shattered in June of last summer, I can now walk probably 1/4 mile a day in total distance traveled).

as soon as I'm more mobile I'll mix in some plyometric exercises.... I can't imagine what exercise ON TOP of this diet will do!

[Akasha]

Posted by Paul (here)
I am now about 2 months into a ketogenic diet - it's working very well. Basic signs of body health, such as blood pressure and weight are much better. Hours of mental alertness and productivity each day are way up. It's my diet and I'm sticking to it. I anticipate that I've added many years of good health to my life.

P.S. -- weight just went below 200 pounds, for the first time in perhaps 35 years .

Hi Paul. As it's now one month later (May 24th), could you share another update as well as going into detail about what you actually eat specifically from meal to meal in a typical day?

Many thanks.