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Thread: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by DarMar (here)
    At least water is fun besides it can not be curved, it always find it's level.
    Yeah, right How about if it is curved in order to find its level.
    http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgur...HPWm-MK4ohTv4M=

    Why the flat earth meme is so popular, I would suggest, is because it is hardwired into the human mind from ancient times. One implication of David Talbott’s theory regarding Saturn stationed at the North Pole would be a very different world view from today’s. Instead of having an equator equidistant between two poles now considered to be more or less equivalent (but are they?), you would have a world extending from a unipolar hot spot and tapering off at some point in the south. See this post: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1044930
    Quote The underworld. This would also explain why all the oldest civilizations were in the northern hemisphere, in what are today temperate areas. They would have been the most temperate areas back then too, not too far from the limited heat from Saturn. But there is another reason why further south would not be viable. For as you moved towards the equator and beyond, the polar configuration would begin to dip below the horizon until only the upper crescent of Saturn was visible. Still further south, even this much would be out of sight. Hence much of the southern hemisphere would be in permanent penumbra and even darkness, with only starlight and possibly moonlight. Notice, this is the only place where the stars would be visible, since the northern hemisphere would be in perpetual daylight from Saturn.

    This configuration provides a more satisfactory explanation for the ancient twin notions of the heavens (ouranos) on the one hand, and on the other, the underworld. The Earth would really have been divided into a dark zone and a light zone. This would be compatible with a flat earth world view: you would not literally fall off the edge, but you would come to a point where most would venture no further. Whatever went on in the underworld, it would have been a very different place from simply the area beneath the horizon at any one time, as is often thought.


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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    F.E.ers are T.A.P.S I.M.O

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    I don't think the 'shapeshifting thing' has lost Icke too many 'supporters', as I think he still draws some of the largest lecture crowds in these alternative 'fields of research'/'movements'. : ) But should we expect that public figures like him have absolutely no 'flaws' in their thinking? ...That would be asking a Lot of someone.
    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    Why do so many in the Alternative media sabotage their message with far flung theories? David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder.
    Last edited by Valley; 18th March 2016 at 10:52.
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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by HaveBlue (here)
    F.E.ers are T.A.P.S I.M.O
    I had to go look that up.

    It's one of these!


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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)

    David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder. Same thing with this flat earth bull$hit. Discredits the movement. I flew on the Concord years ago. Trust me. The Earth is NOT flat.
    Well, with reptilians, David is being a good scientist (as it were), logging and reporting eyewitness reports and personal experiences. Just like UFO and Bigfoot experiencers do (and those who've had even weirder experiences, too).

    I'd simply say he's being fearless, and committed to the truth, whatever it is. Whether it's WISE to do this, is a different question.

    But the 'Flat Earth' is a different category of discussion. We're not talking about people who had a frightening encounter with something that seemed to be a Dogman, a Mothman, a Vampire, or a Werewolf. The Flat Earthers are not basing anything whatsoever on experience or observation. They're theoretical arguments only, flying in the face of mountains (and thousands of years) of experimental and experiential fact — like flying on Concord.

    Quote Posted by joeecho (here)

    Neither road will arrive at the conclusion/ truth. Arbitrary truth yes, if that comforts you.

    An adventure down either road, but the truth, nah.
    Nope. If you hold a tennis ball in your hand, it's a sphere. You can play tennis with it, and it bounces and rolls. You can check it out to see if really does that, as opposed to being some kind of illusion or false belief. That's not an 'arbitrary truth'. Go buy a tennis ball and try it!

    (Unless you really stretch the definition and maintain that everything is subjective perception only, and therefore there's no such thing as 'truth'. If that's your position, it's a philosophical one, not a pragmatic one, and is of no useful value except for the metaphysical discussion. I don't think that's what's being discussed here. Some people maintain that the tennis ball is really flat, and won't roll or bounce at all.)
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th March 2016 at 13:24.

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    Post Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    It's a psyop designed to ultimately discredit and debunk the Christian Bible.

    Although the Bible supports a 'globe' Earth, there are a few verses that can be 'spun' to support a Flat Earth, thus making Christians look ignorant.

    The phrase 'four corners of the Earth' for example, can be falsely interpreted to give one the picture of a F.E.

    With the IQ of the average person sinking lower and lower, I see this as a sort of 'trial balloon' by the debunkers to gauge their Christianity destroying agenda progress.

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by Uncle Mikey (here)
    thus making Christians look ignorant.
    Well, I suppose there still are a bunch of christians out there (honestly organized religion is so irrelevant to me I lose sight of that at times); that's defiantly an angle I did not consider... though it's also an angle I don't agree with, I saw no significant biblical references when I went through the material.. i don't think this was targeted specifically at christians, though I'm sure that's an added benefit that isn't ignored.
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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by Uncle Mikey (here)
    Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    It's a psyop designed to ultimately discredit and debunk the Christian Bible.
    And, probably, the Muslims, the Hindus and Buddhists too. Certainly the Ancient Greeks! And every scientist, astronomer, geographer, and Concord passenger there's ever been.

    For that matter, anyone who's ever flown on a round-the-world trip. Or sailed round the world. Or crossed the International Date Line. Or who lives in North America or Europe and who's spoken in real time with a friend in Australia, with a 12 hour day-night time difference. Or anyone with a half-decent telescope (good binoculars on a tripod will do!) who's looked at the stars at night, and who's never seen a flat planet anywhere.

    Others might like to add to this list. It's a pretty long one! It's not just about Christian tradition.

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    I remember the time before I incarnated here. I was in an orb of sorts. I remember looking at Earth (looks exactly like every space shot I've ever seen) as my "mentor" told me that it was going to be a very difficult trip but that if I didn't go now, I would have to wait a very long time. My "mentor" was insistent that I go, almost yelling at me. "Go now! You must go NOW!", so I dove out of the orb. Next memory, extreme pain and pressure and bright light. That trip really trumped the Concord.

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Others might like to add to this list. It's a pretty long one! It's not just about Christian tradition.
    Try this post from last year's thread: I might want to change a comma or two, but right now I have nothing to add to it
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post994586


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by HaveBlue (here)
    F.E.ers are T.A.P.S I.M.O
    I had to go look that up.

    It's one of these!

    My money's on
    Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors


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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    (Unless you really stretch the definition and maintain that everything is subjective perception only, and therefore there's no such thing as 'truth'. If that's your position, it's a philosophical one, not a pragmatic one, and is of no useful value except for the metaphysical discussion. I don't think that's what's being discussed here. Some people maintain that the tennis ball is really flat, and won't roll or bounce at all.)
    It's funny how people perceive their world in the third dimension but think two dimensionally.


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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    (Unless you really stretch the definition and maintain that everything is subjective perception only, and therefore there's no such thing as 'truth'. If that's your position, it's a philosophical one, not a pragmatic one, and is of no useful value except for the metaphysical discussion. I don't think that's what's being discussed here. Some people maintain that the tennis ball is really flat, and won't roll or bounce at all.)
    Though, if you take that very same idea, and NOT polarize it; it's a very useful concept to keep in mind. Especially when trying to truly communicate a fully comprehended concept for your intended audience...

    I don't think many truths are "fully" the same for everyone; there is always a slightly different connotation which can be exacerbated into miscommunication.

    Getting two minds to agree on a concept in it's entirety isn't super common, not with out compromises, possibly (imo probably) due to the above.
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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Quote Posted by AriG (here)

    David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder. Same thing with this flat earth bull$hit. Discredits the movement. I flew on the Concord years ago. Trust me. The Earth is NOT flat.

    Well, with reptilians, David is being a good scientist (as it were), logging and reporting eyewitness reports and personal experiences. Just like UFO and Bigfoot experiencers do (and those who've had even weirder experiences, too).

    I'd simply say he's being fearless, and committed to the truth, whatever it is. Whether it's WISE to do this, is a different question.

    =============================================================


    I know this is off topic but I have just relistened to this interview and is worth
    listening to it ties into the basis of political and possibly darker control of
    of other entities . The interview goes straight into the subject and is indepth.

    Why I posted it here is aprox 118 mins in David start talking about the
    Royal family and how Satanism and peadophilia is at the heart of it which
    leads to him talking about hybrid humans and quoting Christine Fitzgerald
    a friend of Princess Diana and what she told him about some of the Windsors,
    being hybrid bloodlines and goes into some detail how it works......

    This does not mean you have to believe him , but it ties in with other information
    and cannot be dismissed out of hand imo even if the mainstream ridicule it.

    ========================================================

    I listened to the brief section from Davids video cast in the above post and
    as it finished this one started playing. I have listened and posted these before
    but its a excellent indepth introduction into Satanism , paedophilia ,mind control
    and more info he has researched over the years and I'm listening to it now.......

    George Bush senior , Dick Chaney, Bill Clinton , Gerald Ford and many other
    rich and famous are all part of these sadistic parties and rituals.....


    David Icke: Royal Political Paedophilia.



    Published on 30 Nov 2014

    David Icke - Two Hour Special on Royal/Political Paedophilia Talking on the Richie Allen Show - How the Global Pieces Fit.
    Please Help Support The Richie Allen Show
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/th

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1054264
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 19th March 2016 at 11:55.

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    I've a friend that also says he remembers the 'time' before incarnating, where he remembers being a Star/Sun 🌞... but he didn't mention anything about seeing the Earth. He did also say that he was being told by someone that it wasn't going to be easy (incarnating on Earth)... but that it was a great opportunity, with a lot of potential . Those are things you normally wouldn't just speak to anyone about... So thanks for sharing that 'perspective' here. Who can say it isn't 'accurate'?
    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    I remember the time before I incarnated here. I was in an orb of sorts. I remember looking at Earth (looks exactly like every space shot I've ever seen) as my "mentor" told me that it was going to be a very difficult trip but that if I didn't go now, I would have to wait a very long time. My "mentor" was insistent that I go, almost yelling at me. "Go now! You must go NOW!", so I dove out of the orb. Next memory, extreme pain and pressure and bright light. That trip really trumped the Concord.
    Last edited by Valley; 19th March 2016 at 02:03.
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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Well, that one is not from NASA:


    Soyouz over Japan
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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    .
    And neither is this. (Taken by Concord passenger Vincent Coude du Foresto)





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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    .
    An interim comment here: I really have found this thread interesting. A lot of food for thought.

    I think the general problem may be a kind of imbalance. (And that's what's capitalized on by the CIA and others who use these things to discredit the alternative media. And boy, is that easy to do sometimes.)

    Here's the imbalance:




    By 'information'. I mean everything that's on the net. Opinions, thoughts, blogs, videos, movies, tweets, forwarded e-mails, Facebook comments, the enormous amount of 'noise' that's out there now. It can be almost overwhelming.

    And anyone — I mean ANYONE — has a voice now. And everyone's kind of shouting.

    I suspect that all this was anticipated (and encouraged) years ago by the intel agencies. They knew we'd be overwhelmed. And that overwhelm disables us. More is not always better.

    Here's a simple example. 20-25 years ago, there was really just one UFO book for everyone to buy as a must-read. It was excellent (and still is). That's Above Top Secret, by Timothy Good. It still contains 90% of the information that anyone new to the subject needs to know.

    I had an e-mail from someone a few days ago asking what website to go to for good information about UFOs. I've still not replied. There are WAY too many to choose from, and I still don't know how best to simplify my answer.

    In all that, we have a few Flat-Earthers adding to the cacophony with their own megaphone. (And quite a lot of others, too, on other issues, but this thread is not about them.)

    Most people can't deal with all the noise, so they filter out everything except just a few topics.

    And — I'd suggest — that's also why mainstream media followers can't hear the intelligent and well-informed alternative media. And if they DO tune in to listen for a moment, the Flat-Earthers (and others!) are there, not far away, to drive them away again.

    Can you see how clever it all is?
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th March 2016 at 14:35.

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    .
    An interim comment here: I really have found this thread interesting. A lot of food for thought.

    I think the general problem may be a kind of imbalance. (And that's what's capitalized on by the CIA and others who use these things to discredit the alternative media. And boy, is that easy to do sometimes.)

    Here's the imbalance:

    Bill, I think that's hit the nail on the head!

    Unfortunately the "Not enough experience, ability or background knowledge to process it all" brigade simply don't realise it applies to them...

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    I was looking for some vids of Earth on U'tube and decided to have a tour of the
    Space station.Aprox 13min 40 secs in she shows the audience the cupola viewing
    port showing the Earth....


    HOW IT WORKS: The International Space Station



    Published on 3 Jul 2015

    This educational documentary video goes inside the International Space Station
    (ISS) which is a space station in low Earth orbit. First launched into orbit in 1998,
    and now its the largest artificial body in orbit and can often be seen with the human
    naked eye. The crew can only stay in space orbit for several months maximum,
    then then must return to Earth. The ISS interior consists of pressurized modules,
    external trusses, solar arrays, and other components. ISS components have been
    launched by Russian Proton and Soyuz rockets as well as American Space Shuttles.
    NASA and many other countries help construct it.


    ===================================================

    Astronaut Cady Coleman's Space Station Cupola Tour



    Published on 29 Oct 2014

    The NASA astronaut shows off the "windows to the world" aboard the International Space Station...




    ====================================================

    Window on the World



    Uploaded on 15 Nov 2010


    Expedition 26 Commander Scott Kelly shows off the International
    Space Station's observation deck known as the cupola.

    ========================================

    I wanted to see if there were some Russian , Chinese or other country
    showing pictures of the Earth from space. Found this I do not know if
    genuine ?.....

    Russian video of Earth from Space 2015



    ====================================================


    [ISS] Mike Fossum Tours Cupola on Station



    Uploaded on 16 Nov 2011

    Mike Fossum filmed a small tour of Node 3 and the Cupola - The windowed dome
    module that looks down onto Earth.

    ====================================================


    ISS Timelapse - Just another day inside the Cupola (30 Novembre 2015)
    .




    ====================================================

    All Alone in the Night - Time-lapse footage of the Earth as seen from the ISS



    ===================================================


    Earth Seen From Space Station ISS [Real Speed HD]



    Published on 31 May 2014


    International Space Station flying above our beautiful Planet Earth. Real speed

    ====================================================

    Sorry I got a bit carried away up in the space station .....LOL
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 19th March 2016 at 15:51.

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    Default Re: Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

    From the template:

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    As far as the question goes, its answer fall under the rubric of "Social Engineering," AKA "Psy-op."

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    The following is an article by Jon Rappoport on how psy-ops work and how they are orchestrated in social engineering schemes and which I keep referencing here and there.
    [...]
    The "yearning": TRUTH!

    The "hook": You have been lied to and NASA lies all the time...

    The logical fallacy: Therefore NASA's round earth cannot be true...

    The new religion: Earth is flat! ... and that's the whole truth!

    Why? To check if it works!
    Here are some backdrops examples for some other Psy-ops:

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    How the CIA’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church

    By Jonas E. Alexis on March 18, 2016

    The Doctrinal Warfare Program is the name given to a classified US Government operation commenced in 1953 (in a document entitled PSB D33 with annexes) which targeted the intellectuals, business leaders, and clerics in a number of different societies with the goal of having them approve of the American ideology in principle.


    …by Jonas E. Alexis & David A. Wemhoff

    David Wemhoff is an Indiana attorney and has practiced law for more than twenty years. He received a Juris Doctor degree from the University of the Pacific, and an A.B. in Government from the University of Notre Dame. Wemhoff has taught college courses in Government, Constitutional Law, and Business Law.

    Alexis: Your 990-page study, John Courtney Murray, Time/Life, and the American Proposition: How the C.I.A.’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church, is filled with archival documents and references, which obviously shows that you have thoroughly done your homework. For people who have never heard of the work and its content, lay out the thesis for us here.

    Wemhoff: The American leadership (i.e., the socio-economic-cultural elites in American society) coordinated their efforts (mainly media) with the US Government through its Doctrinal Warfare Program, and by using something called psychological warfare, to change the thinking of the Catholic leadership so as to get them to accept as good in principle the ideology underlying American society and also accept America as the idea of social organization.

    I document these efforts, which were part of a broader effort to co-opt leaders of all religions. The plan of the American leadership was to use the Catholic Church, and other religions, to then propagate the American ideology, which formed the society known as America, all as a response ostensibly to Soviet Communism.

    Acceptance and implementation of the American ideology served to align these societies with America and the USA against the USSR and Communism, and it also served to re-order these same societies thereby opening them to powerful private interests. The book discusses this effort, the response by some Catholic leaders and scholars, and it focuses on the period of about 1941 through 1965 or the conclusion of the Vatican II Council.

    The Doctrinal Warfare Program is the name given to a classified US Government operation commenced in 1953 (in a document entitled PSB D33 with annexes) which targeted the intellectuals, business leaders, and clerics in a number of different societies with the goal of having them approve of the American ideology in principle. Psychological warfare is defined further on in this interview.

    Two key aspects of the American ideology my book proposes are 1) the so-called separation of church and state along with a conception of religious liberty which means that there is not a state established church and that religion is not to form the basis of public policy and 2) the freedom of the press which effectively puts culture, and real power over the minds of the citizenry, in the hands of private concerns.

    These two ideas are part of a generalized political philosophy that is part of something called limited government. The American ideology is part of what is called Liberalism, and is in large measure protected by the US Constitution. This ideology, along with the foundational documents of America, serves to create a political economy.

    Acceptance of the ideology and the modeling of one’s society in accordance with it results in the implementation of a peculiar political economy which places all religions on an equal footing, has the religions supporting the political economy and the political regime, provides material benefits to the various religions, and minimizes a source of tension in society though the real influence of the religions are vastly reduced and they come to be dominated by powerful private interests if not also the civil authorities, or government.

    Catholic doctrine, as I understand was presented by the various scholars that I mention and studied in my book, holds that the civil authorities, or the government, are/is responsible for following something called the divine positive law of Jesus Christ. This means that civil authorities are required to establish the Catholic faith as the religion of the state, and the Catholic Church as the state church.

    No one is to be forced to convert, but the public policies are to be based on the divine positive law of Jesus Christ (or the Catholic Faith), and not just the natural law which is what was advocated by the Catholic theologians advancing the American ideology.

    “Natural law” is an equivocal concept capable of differing meanings or definitions, and hence prone to manipulation by those with the will and means to do so, and significantly for Catholics it is used to ignore the existence of Jesus Christ, an important historical figure and God-Man who the Catholics say founded their Church and gave them certain precepts to follow.

    A focus in the book is on the back and forth between Catholic theologians and others on the issues of church and state relations and religious liberty. Simply put, one side defending Catholic doctrine was lead by a Catholic priest of the Redemptorist order, Francis Connell, and the other side advancing the American ideology was lead by a Catholic priest of the Jesuit order, John Courtney Murray.

    Alexis: In chapter 11, you argue that there was actually a psychological warfare going on. Describe that for us.

    Wemhoff: Psychological, or political warfare, is the manipulation of words, images, events, and ideas to shape a target audience’s views, ideas, perceptions and beliefs. The Americans developed it and perfected it on a grand scale during World War II and also the Cold War, or what I term World War III since it was actually fought all over the world.

    The idea of psychological warfare, like every other idea in American society, first arose in the private sector and then was adopted, developed and expanded by the US Government as a tool, or weapon, against the Axis powers and later the Catholic Church, and other American friends in the so-called Free World. Charles Douglas Jackson (“CD Jackson”) was an expert in this new weapon or tool and he worked for Henry R. Luce, a media mogul, as well as the US Government.

    Alexis: You write that
    In exchange for his ideas, the Rockefellers gave [John Courtney Murray] money access to the funding offered by the elite foundations. Murray’s contact with the Rockefellers allowed Georgetown University to land funding for a program entitled ‘An experimental Program in Executive Education to be Undertaken Cooperatively by Georgetown University and The William A. Jump Memorial Foundation,’ which was meant to ‘enlarge the abilities’ of men and women to rise in ‘career executive positions in the Federal Government and there exercise an important influence on the growth of democratic institutions.’

    “Murray wrote a letter to Dean Rusk, at the time the president of the Rockefeller Foundation, when he asked them for money. Helping the Rockefellers made one popular with Catholics in the U.S. because of the money that flowed to Catholic institutions…”[1]
    Tell us who John Courtney Murray really was and unpack for us the moral and intellectual consequences of his attachment to the Rockefellers, who were feverishly working to depopulate some specific groups in America.

    Wemhoff: As previously mentioned, Murray was a Catholic priest of the Jesuit order, and he was born and raised in New York City. His importance is that he provided the appearance of Catholic theological justification for the American ideology, which was termed the American Proposition.

    Henry Luce, a media mogul who founded Time, Inc. which published the magazines of Time, Fortune, Life, and Sports Illustrated, worked closely with the US Government and the Rockefellers in terms of advancing the American Proposition. Luce was a friend, patron, and in general, a fellow-traveler with Murray. Together, Luce and Murray (who also worked with the Rockefellers) lead the effort to convince the Catholic leadership that America was the ideal form of social organization.

    However, Murray was not the only Catholic priest used to advance Liberalism, it is just that he is the best known. Felix Morlion was a Dominican priest who founded Pro Deo University and who was actively promoting the American ideology before Murray got involved. Morlion’s efforts were funded by American intelligence and supported by Luce and his people.

    Pro Deo University was headquartered in Rome and it taught its students that America was the ideal society while preparing these students for leadership roles in business and society in their home countries, many of which were Catholic countries such as those in Latin America.

    Another Catholic priest was Gustave Weigel, also a Jesuit, who was an apologist for America in Latin America during much of the 1930s and the 1940s. Indeed, a part of the Jesuit order was engaged in defending and promoting the American ideology especially through the magazine known as America.

    Weigel is quite notable as he was the first to articulate the idea that a Catholic can believe one thing privately but in public office he has to act differently. (This gained notoriety in the 1980s when Governor Mario Cuomo said he was personally opposed to abortion but supported a woman’s right to chose.) This idea effectively strips power from the Church and the Catholic Faith to influence public policy.

    The most powerful players in society then become private interests, and these are oftentimes the financial interests. My book documents the various conferences held by the American leadership to lay the plans and stress the importance of convincing societies of the importance and value of accepting the American Proposition, or the American ideology.

    There was a close coordination between the media, intelligence services, and financial interests, and Luce with his lieutenants as well as the key leaders of these various sectors understood the importance and power of private capital.

    Alexis: You said that “No one wanted to write Murray’s biography, and to this day, no one has.”[2] You also suggested that people perceived that “Murray was part of the establishment…Murray was part of the efforts of the American elites and U.S. Government to conquer the Church, and a biography would expose the connection.”[3]

    Wemhoff: My book, I believe, exposes the connection, but more importantly it explains why Murray’s efforts were considered by the powerful people of his day to be so important which was ultimately to advance the financial and political power of certain segments of American society. Ideas are the most powerful of tools, or weapons.

    [...] [see full article here (<---)]
    -----------

    [1] David A. Wemhoff, John Courtney Murray, Time/Life, and the American Proposition: How the C.I.A.’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2015), 509.
    [2] Ibid., 893.
    [3] Ibid., 893-894.
    [4] E. Michael Jones, Is Notre Dame Still Catholic? (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2009); Libido Dominandi: Sexual Liberation and Political Control (South Bend: St. Augustine’s Press, 2000); The Catholic Church and the Cultural Revolution (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2016).
    [5] John D. Sutter, “3 ways the Catholic church should embrace gay rights,” CNN, October 15, 2014.
    [6] Quoted in Jones, The Catholic Church and the Cultural Revolution, kindle edition.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Now, regarding the promotion of trends and the CIA:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From Sue Arrigo's Case 12: The Exorbitant Cost of Cooking Intelligence

    Submitted to Waxman’s Congressional Committee on Govt. Oversight and Reform on Monday 26 May 2008.

    Shortly before Tenet announced his resignation on June 3, 2004, I submitted evidence to the GAO that the intelligence reports at the CIA were being cooked at ridiculous cost.
    [Note: For a brief overview of this topic please see an 8 minute You Tube at http://
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP18L0PtKS0, including that Chalibi, a convicted bank swindler, was paid $345,000.00 a month to provide intelligence to the CIA.]

    What I sent the GAO included evidence that selected people inside the CIA were paying “independent” think tanks and scholars very high fees for articles. The independents had been contracted to have a particular point of view or conclusion. It was one way that the neo-cons used to shift the CIA’s analysts and foreign policy in the direction that they wanted. The corruption case that I sent the GAO had to do with exorbitant fees being paid for these cooked “independent” articles.

    I documented that one 5-page article had been written in 2 days to re-iterate a self-serving view; the CIA and thus the US taxpayer had paid over a million dollars for it. It was not a report on a scientific study that had taken time to complete. The author of it was not a scientist. I looked at that article myself. It had not a single reference in it. It faithfully followed the handwritten notes of the author from the call which gave him the assignment.

    The person who called him was a staffer at the White House. The author was an academician at an Ivy League college, Harvard, if I remember correctly. The opinion took on a respectable patina after passing through the typewriter of that professor. The CIAs analysts then referenced the opinion as if it were fact in their own reports.

    The article was on how Middle Eastern countries were financially incompetent to manage their own accounting and banking affairs. No evidence was given for that assertion. It recommended that loans made to and from Middle Eastern banks to US corporations/banks under a certain size should be forced to go through banking structures that the US could control. The staffer calling in that assignment to the Professor had received a call within the hour from David Rockefeller. The staffer’s hand written notes from that call showed that he had faithfully transmitted Rockefeller’s instructions to the Professor. Those instructions included recommending that the World Bank and the Bank of International Settlements in Basel be used to give “the US oversight control”.

    But as both of those institutions were controlled, not by the US govt. but by David Rockefeller, it gave the control to him, not the US Govt.. That is, unless one made the mistake of thinking that David Rockefeller was the US Govt.. It was a mistake that perhaps he had made subconsciously.

    I guessed that the point of that propaganda stunt by Rockefeller was to set the stage for his taking over many banks in the Middle East later. It also seemed designed to cut out smaller companies from being able to compete with his own enterprises. It later prevented Iraqis and Afghanis from getting the loans they needed to rebuild themselves. It forced them to wait for US reconstruction by large US corporations. It was part of a set of US policies which put a stranglehold on their economies in practice. That often forced them to work for the US occupation of their country or watch their children starve to death.

    [...][see full article [PDF file] detailing the various CIA schemes to goad public opinion in any direction]
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    In 'em times of last century, one needed to coral all these media moguls to promote those ideas... which is what the Rockefellers/Rothschilds did. Nowadays, with the internet, one can do that from some basement.... However. as I mentioned here (<---) there is serious $$ involved with the promotion of the "Flat Earth society."

    This might be one of those pre-tests to starting a new global religion to reckon what population percentage will bite the hook....
    Last edited by Hervé; 19th March 2016 at 16:44.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  38. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Atlas (27th May 2016), Sierra (19th March 2016), Sophocles (19th March 2016)

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