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Thread: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extricating from US Citizenship and how to maintain your new Status

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    This would have to be based on the notion that a Republican Form of government exists and is enforceable.
    I can't speak to the other parts, as long as you accept the mistaken belief that the RFOG is not already in American law.

    The law that is in harmony with the REPUBLICAN FORM is still on the books. The sovereign American, free inhabitant, domiciled upon private property within the boundaries of these united States of America retains his endowment of rights (inalienable and natural) and liberties (natural and personal), and oath bound government is his servant, not his master.

    I have not read all law, but I have yet to find a law that trespasses upon the natural and personal liberty of the American national / free inhabitant domiciled upon private property within the boundaries of the united States of America.

    However, there ARE voluminous rules, regulations, taxes, and penalties imposed on U.S. citizens / residents, duly enumerated (via FICA), engaged in usury, who reside at residences, registered as real estate, and are obligated to get permission (license) and / or pay taxes to live, work, travel, buy, sell, operate a business, transmit radio, fly a plane, trade in healthcare, buy medicine, cut hair, build a house, hunt, fish, marry, and / or own a dog.

    In short, if one has not given consent to be governed, all that servant government can do is secure rights, adjudicate disputes, prosecute those who deliberately injure the person and property of another, and defend against enemies, foreign or domestic. But once consent is given, all bets are off.

    In America, if you have endowed rights, you’re under the republican form of government. If instead of endowed rights, you have mandatory civic duties, you’re under the constitutionally limited indirect democracy that serves the people in the republican form of government. If you have socialist obligations, you’ve volunteered into the socialist democratic form, via FICA.

    (That's the SHORT ANSWER)

    The long answer requires you to take the effort to go READ LAW *(statutes, not code), and see for yourself that government never, ever, ever trespasses upon RIGHTS.

    I repeat, no constitutional government can violate endowed rights without consent of the governed.

    And even when the law fails to explicitly exclude endowed rights (or other terms associated with them - like private property, etc), they have given us a CATCH ALL trapdoor:
    SHALL - As used in statutes, contracts, or the like, this word is generally imperative or mandatory... But it may be construed as merely permissive or directory (as equivalent to "may"), to carry out the legislative intention and in cases where no right or benefit depends on its being taken in the imperative sense, and where no public or private right is impaired by its interpretation in the other sense.
    - - - Blacks Law dictionary, Sixth ed., p.1375

    MAY - Word "may" usually is employed to imply permissive, optional or discretional, and not mandatory action or conduct... In construction of statutes and presumably of federal rules word "may" as opposed to "shall" is indicative of discretion or choice between two or more alternatives, but context is which word appears must be controlling factor.
    - - - Blacks Law dictionary, Sixth ed., p.979
    If a law states, "It shall be unlawful..." and you can show that if the law was mandatory in your case it would violate a PRIVATE RIGHT, the law can be construed to mean "It may be unlawful..." and merely optional, permissive or directory, without penalty for disobedience.

    (This exclusion is in addition to exemptions, exclusions, and clauses based on the law not violating endowed rights and liberties of the sovereign people.)

    And if you noted in previous posts, that American people are sovereigns, whereas the government is NOT sovereign, then the following also reinforces the point that the republican form is still the law of the land.
    "In common usage, the term 'person' does not include the sovereign, [and] statutes employing the [word] are ordinarily construed to exclude it."
    Wilson v. Omaha Indian Tribe, 442 U.S. 653, 667, 61 L.Ed2. 153, 99 S.Ct. 2529 (1979)
    (quoting United States v. Cooper Corp. 312 U.S. 600, 604, 85 L.Ed. 1071, 61S.Ct. 742 (1941)).

    "A Sovereign cannot be named in any statute as merely a 'person' or 'any person'".
    Wills v. Michigan State Police, 105 L.Ed. 45 (1989)

    “. . . A sovereign is not a person in a legal sense” In re Fox, 52 N. Y. 535, 11 Am. Rep. 751; U.S. v. Fox, 94 U.S. 315, 24 L. Ed. 192

    Does government KNOW the difference?
    YES.

    Coincidentally, when government wishes a law to be applicable to everyone, it uses the phrase, "Whoever ...". When the law is not applicable to everyone, it uses the phrase, "Any person who ....".
    Title 18 USC § 111. Assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain
    officers or employees
    (a) In General.-- Whoever--
    (1) forcibly assaults, resists, opposes, impedes, intimidates, or interferes with any person designated in section 1114 of this title while engaged in or on account of the performance of official duties;
    Contrast with:
    Title 18 USC § 228. Failure to pay legal child support obligations
    (a) Offense.-- Any person who--
    (1) willfully fails to pay a support obligation with respect to a child who resides in another State, if such obligation has remained unpaid for a period longer than 1 year, or is greater than $5,000...
    The average person (indoctrinated serf) would not know that the second law had limited applicability to subject persons who had enrolled into national socialism and thus gave their consent to be bound to obedience.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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  3. Link to Post #122
    United States Avalon Member gripreaper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extricating from US Citizenship and how to maintain your new Status

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    The law that is in harmony with the REPUBLICAN FORM is still on the books. The sovereign American, free inhabitant, domiciled upon private property within the boundaries of these united States of America retains his endowment of rights (inalienable and natural) and liberties (natural and personal), and oath bound government is his servant, not his master.

    I have not read all law, but I have yet to find a law that trespasses upon the natural and personal liberty of the American national / free inhabitant domiciled upon private property within the boundaries of the united States of America.
    I'm saying that the tyrants don't agree that they need a law to stop them from trespassing on sovereign Americans. You seem to have been around long enough to know some of the history, but let me just point out a few. Remember Leroy Schweitzer? He was a sovereign American who died in prison. How could they do that? How about David Koresh? He was a sovereign American with a land patent, and they came onto his private property with tanks and burned 82 men, women and children ALIVE in his private property! Billy Faust is dead, shot in cold blood.

    Our early history is also fraught with such events against the sovereign Indian's, such as Wounded Knee. They slaughtered the Indians in cold blood by the thousands.

    So, please don't tell me that you can file a few papers with the Social Security Administration, remove your Federal Reserve Notes from an interest bearing account, and get a land patent for your land and stand firm on the status of some original organic Republic, and the tyrants will just leave you alone. This contract, was breached and any fiduciary trust was also breached.

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    However, there ARE voluminous rules, regulations, taxes, and penalties imposed on U.S. citizens / residents, duly enumerated (via FICA), engaged in usury, who reside at residences, registered as real estate, and are obligated to get permission (license) and / or pay taxes to live, work, travel, buy, sell, operate a business, transmit radio, fly a plane, trade in healthcare, buy medicine, cut hair, build a house, hunt, fish, marry, and / or own a dog.
    I totally agree 100%, and until you can rally more souls to claim their sovereignty and stand against tyranny, all of the paper the Republic is written on is not worth it to wipe your ass.

    It's time to quit hanging our hat on some time in the past when we allegedly had endowed rights under a Republican form of government, and face the truth of our current situation, and make provisions to RESTORE what little bit of that form may still exist. THIS you and I can agree upon.
    Last edited by gripreaper; 15th May 2016 at 22:12.
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    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
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  5. Link to Post #123
    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extricating from US Citizenship and how to maintain your new Status

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    I'm saying that the tyrants don't agree that they need a law to stop them from trespassing on
    [1] sovereign Americans. You seem to have been around long enough to know some of the history, but let me just point out a few. Remember
    [2] Leroy Schweitzer? He was a sovereign American who died in prison. How could they do that? How about
    [3] David Koresh? He was a sovereign American with a land patent, and they came onto his private property with tanks and burned 82 men, women and children ALIVE in his private property!
    [4] Billy Faust is dead, shot in cold blood.
    [1] Many who claim to be sovereigns are not, lacking a domicile.
    Sovereignty and property are inseparable.
    As to the requirement to have a domicile comes from the Theory of the Common Law (Joseph Story) wherein it states that sovereignty and property are inseparable. A king without a kingdom / domain is merely a 'traveling prince.'
    If you do not have a domicile, you are subject to the landlord, and thus NOT a sovereign.
    [2] Don't know anything about him or his conviction.

    [3] David Koresh was "not" a sovereign, and a land patent is not proof of absolute ownership of private property. Ditto, for "allodial title."

    [4] Don't know who Billy Faust is, or his status.

    . . .
    “It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
    - - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
    [... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]

    Now that we know it is our consent to be citizens that waives our right to life and liberty and absolute ownership of private property, it is futile to argue over the loss of other inconsequential rights and liberties such as those lost to national socialism (via FICA) and to usurers, via compact . . . (wink, wink, nod, nod)

    Complaining about consent already given is as useful as a volunteer on a suicide mission, blurting out: "They want me to do WHAT?! - That could get me KILLED!"

    As previously posted:
    The sovereign American, free inhabitant, domiciled upon private property within the boundaries of these united States of America retains his endowment of rights (inalienable and natural) and liberties (natural and personal), and oath bound government is his servant, not his master.

    In all the years I have been researching law and corresponding with "new Patriots" I have yet to meet one who qualified as a free inhabitant, domiciled upon private property, absolutely owned by an individual.
    Some are half in / half out. Some are merely "residents" residing at residences. Some are off the tax rolls, having recorded their property as religious ministries. Some are legitimate "free American nationals" but not sovereigns.

    It's a sad commentary on America - those who have the financial means to "go sovereign" are the least likely to "rock the boat" and those who have no means have the greatest desire to "go sovereign" but cannot afford buying land and house- - myself included. If I knew 20 years ago, what I know now, I might have avoided that dilemma. (20-20 hindsight)
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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  7. Link to Post #124
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    Default Re: Extricating from US Citizenship and how to maintain your new Status

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    In all the years I have been researching law and corresponding with "new Patriots" I have yet to meet one who qualified as a free inhabitant, domiciled upon private property, absolutely owned by an individual.
    Some are half in / half out. Some are merely "residents" residing at residences. Some are off the tax rolls, having recorded their property as religious ministries. Some are legitimate "free American nationals" but not sovereigns.

    It's a sad commentary on America - those who have the financial means to "go sovereign" are the least likely to "rock the boat" and those who have no means have the greatest desire to "go sovereign" but cannot afford buying land and house- - myself included. If I knew 20 years ago, what I know now, I might have avoided that dilemma. (20-20 hindsight)
    Yeah, my dilemma as well. Those alien interlopers who would choose to enslave have had thousands of years to hone their craft, and the sentient souls of planet earth have had the same amount of time to acquiesce.

    Thanks for pointing out that there is remedy, should we choose to accept it. Although it is not a walk in the park, and requires a sincere desire as well as education, and a strong will, bringing this truth out into the light of day is our most ardent task.
    "Lay Down Your Truth and Check Your Weapons
    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
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  9. Link to Post #125
    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extricating from US Citizenship and how to maintain your new Status

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    So, please don't tell me that you can file a few papers with the Social Security Administration, remove your Federal Reserve Notes from an interest bearing account, and get a land patent for your land and stand firm on the status of some original organic Republic, and the tyrants will just leave you alone. This contract, was breached and any fiduciary trust was also breached.
    If you've read this thread, at no time do I state that one can :
    1. File papers with Soc/Sec
    2. Remove FRNS from bank
    3. Get land patent
    4. Stand firm on some organic republic.

    This is what YOU infer / believe. This prevents you from grasping the facts before you.

    I suspect you've been exposed to plenty of patriot mythology, and that will make it very difficult to perceive facts.

    As I said, repeatedly, READ LAW, not the opinions of others who concoct wild explanations. Also, write polite questionnaires to public servants for explanation. You may be pleasantly surprised.

    1. When I wrote to my congress critter, and others, for the "official" procedure to leave Soc Sec I received SILENCE in reply. There is no "official" way to leave Soc Sec. But since Soc Sec is a ministry for disbursing charity, and their records are how they track participants, it requires YOUR CONSENT to make it stick. Starting in 1992-3, I ceased participating on religious grounds. When asked for "my" number, I simply state that it is against my religious beliefs to participate in that abomination. So they put down: "NO SSN" on their paper work. Even when arrested, they put down "NO SSN."

    2. Removing FRNS from the bank is not the issue. It's your SIGNATURE on their SIGNATURE CARD wherein you agree to abide by the RULES OF THE BANK. And if you didn't know, the U.S. Governor of "the Bank" and "the Fund" is our friend, the Sec'y of Treasury, whose regulations are promulgated in Title 26 US Code (aka Income Tax). And unnumbered Americans cannot open personal bank accounts with Fed Res banks - bless their hearts.

    3. Land patents do not prove what type of ownership is involved. No state or federal constitution trespasses upon PRIVATE PROPERTY rights. Qualified ownership of estate is NOT absolute ownership by an individual. Ditto, for Allodium.

    4. A republic is not synonymous with a republican form. The People's Republic of China is a republic, but it is NOT a republican form. Not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define the RFOG or its source. (And I am including the vast majority of "new patriots" in that group)

    Frankly, the government pretends not to know what it is guaranteeing.
    CONSTITUTION, Art. 4, Sec. 4 (Republican Form) - No precise definition of what constitutes a republican government under this clause has been judicially declared;
    . . . Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. (U. S.) 162, 22 L. Ed. 027
    - - - Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 8th ed. (1914), P.635.

    GOVERNMENT (Republican Form of Government)- One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people... directly...
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695

    Q:Where do such people exercise "sovereignty" directly?
    A: Over that which they absolutely own / have dominion over.
    In other words, PRIVATE PROPERTY, absolutely owned.

    Since 1933, and the confiscation of lawful money, it has become very difficult to establish absolute ownership by alienating title with lawful money (gold or silver coin). And since 1935, participants in FICA have surrendered their property rights and became underwriters (contributors) to the national debt.

    BUT
    If one does buy land (and house) for at least $21 in lawful money, the law does recognize your rights to the rules of the common law (see 7th amendment).

    Check your own state constitution and statutes to verify that inhabitants (non-residents) domiciled upon private property (not estate) are protected. Also verify that natural rights and liberty (natural and personal) are still expressly protected.
    PRIVATE PROPERTY - As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
    - - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217.

    Amendment V, US Constitution 1789
    ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    "... private property shall not be taken or damaged for public purposes without just and adequate compensation being first paid.”
    - - - Georgia Constitution, Article 1, Sec.3, Paragraph 1


    " PERSONAL LIBERTY, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or NATURAL Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property...and is regarded as inalienable."
    - - - 16 Corpus Juris Secundum, Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987...

    NATURAL RIGHTS - ... are the rights of life, liberty, privacy, and good reputation.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., p. 1324
    Note: Qualified ownership of estate is not an endowed right, but a revenue taxable privilege. Failure to pay one's ad valorem tax on estate will result in confiscation and without just compensation.
    "What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle, the sheet-anchor of American republicanism. Our Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
    - - - Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (1854)
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln

    As Lincoln reminds us, under the republican form, promised by the USCON, instituted by the Declaration of Independence, NO MAN (nor American government) is good enough to govern you without your consent. Without your consent, all that government is authorized to do is secure endowed (sacred) rights (prosecute trespass; adjudicate disputes; defend against enemies, foreign or domestic).

    BUT, as George Washington reminded us, if you consent to be a CITIZEN, none of these endowed rights remain intact. For all citizens owe a portion of their property, and their services, to the STATE.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Abbreviated sound bite reference

    RFOG:
    {source: Declaration of Independence}
    [] Natural rights
    [] Natural liberty
    [] Personal liberty
    [] Absolute ownership
    [] Sovereign, served by government
    (Owes nothing to the government)

    . . .

    DFOG:
    {source: compact / constitution}
    [] Civil rights
    [] Civil liberty
    [] Political liberty
    [] Qualified ownership
    [] Subject of the government, by consent
    (Owes mandatory civic duties, etc)

    If you understand the legal definitions of these terms, you should be able to verify that the governments still abide by the rules and secure rights of those who still have them.

    If I am not mistaken, there is no need to "change" the government other than withdrawing consent from it. When sufficient numbers do so, it will trigger a collapse of the socialist democratic form.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote If you understand the legal definitions of these terms, you should be able to verify that the governments still abide by the rules and secure rights of those who still have them.
    Pirates don't abide by any rules. They don't abide by their own rules.
    Its all water under the bridge... things are about to change big time.

    Until then, just understand what's at play... It's human psychology that people have been conditioned, hypnotized, auto-hypnotized, to feel isolated and separated from one another. Its been that way from the very beginning - since the fall of man.

    If you don't want to be bothered by what comes with the use of a SSN, then stop using the number.

    If you want to work without having to show an employer a Social Security Number that thinks its a requirement, then work for yourself.
    If you don't like what comes with owning a piece of property, then don't own property. You can't take it with you anyways. We're here just for a very short time. Find out what it is that you can take with you when you go.

    Get back to the Earth as much as possible. Garden, grow mushrooms, get to know people you can barter with. Keep your customers close & personal.

    Just live your live as simply as you can.
    Don't expect to live a convenient life within a system that is highly corrupt & fraudulent.
    Stop using a credit card, as a convenience.
    Stop using a debit card, as a convenience.
    Stop expecting things that you think you should have, or should be getting from someone else, from some idea of what & how government should be.

    Stop volunteering into a system that is rigged against those that want something from it.
    Stop doing what you're doing.
    Stop thinking & using words & their definitions to find your freedom, peace of mind, sovereignty from them. The battle of words will only take you into a corrupted courtroom setting to deal with corrupted judges, corrupted attorneys and an opposing force. If you like conflict, then by all means ignore what I am say.

    All words are lies!
    No need to trust government. Just trust yourself.
    Life, then becomes very peaceful & enjoyable.
    Last edited by turiya; 17th May 2016 at 03:09.

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Quote If you understand the legal definitions of these terms, you should be able to verify that the governments still abide by the rules and secure rights of those who still have them.
    Pirates don't abide by any rules. They don't abide by their own rules.
    [Show me one example where ENDOWED RIGHTS and / or PRIVATE PROPERTY was trespassed by government. All I can find are examples of voluntary slaves losing privileges.]

    Its all water under the bridge... things are about to change big time.
    [Change from what to what? America already has the best form of government - the republican form. But its people volunteered out of it, as far back as 1820s, into the democratic form of government. Are you hoping for a benevolent socialist democracy to replace the benevolent totalitarian police state socialist democracy we currently have?]

    Until then, just understand what's at play... It's human psychology that people have been conditioned, hypnotized, auto-hypnotized, to feel isolated and separated from one another. Its been that way from the very beginning - since the fall of man.

    If you don't want to be bothered by what comes with the use of a SSN, then stop using the number.
    [Incomplete. Stop using privileges associated with participation in FICA / national socialism.]

    If you want to work without having to show an employer a Social Security Number that thinks its a requirement, then work for yourself.
    If you don't like what comes with owning a piece of property, then don't own property.
    [Do not confuse qualified ownership of estate - a taxable privilege - with absolute ownership of private property - an endowed right.]

    You can't take it with you anyways. We're here just for a very short time. Find out what it is that you can take with you when you go.

    Get back to the Earth as much as possible. Garden, grow mushrooms, get to know people you can barter with. Keep your customers close & personal.

    Just live your live as simply as you can.
    Don't expect to live a convenient life within a system that is highly corrupt & fraudulent.
    [And if you consent to it, whose fault is it?]
    Stop using a credit card, as a convenience.
    Stop using a debit card, as a convenience.
    Stop expecting things that you think you should have, or should be getting from someone else, from some idea of what & how government should be.

    Stop volunteering into a system that is rigged against those that want something from it.
    Stop doing what you're doing.
    Stop thinking & using words & their definitions to find your freedom, peace of mind, sovereignty from them.
    [WRONG. Learn the true legal definitions of the words.]

    The battle of words will only take you into a corrupted courtroom setting to deal with corrupted judges, corrupted attorneys and an opposing force. If you like conflict, then by all means ignore what I am say.

    All words are lies!
    [This is an indication of madness. And refutes everything you wrote.]
    No need to trust government. Just trust yourself.
    Life, then becomes very peaceful & enjoyable.
    I must disagree with the conclusions presented. We're all victims of the world's greatest propaganda ministry, so it's not surprising that one may be confused.

    I learned that I was a slave, in 1992. I was angry at government. After researching law, I learned that I had consented to be a slave, and was angry at myself.

    Ignorance of law is no defense. Nor can one hope to extricate themselves from voluntary slavery by closing one's eyes, and clicking one's heels together, three times, repeating "it's all lies."

    Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, government has two jobs:
    [1] Secure (endowed) rights, and
    [2] Govern (rule) those who consent.
    Caveat - consent waives job #1.
    So if you've consented to be governed, SHUT UP, sit down, and obey.

    But if you were tricked, you had better make the effort to find out how and when you gave consent, and then decide if you wish to continue as a voluntary slave or WITHDRAW CONSENT.

    Make no mistake - America's enemies are found in every other nation, whose governments RULE their subject peoples. If America's republican form was to revive and prevail, it would trigger world wide revolution, toppling every other regime on the planet. The republican form is anathema to every monarchy, democracy, oligarchy, totalitarian police state, theocracy, and military dictatorship that demands submission of the masses.

    It is a sad fact that not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define the republican form or its source. Most believe it to be a reference to 'a republic' or a 'constitutional republic.' And that's what the propaganda ministry wants. For if ever a sizable number of Americans learned the facts, the predators in charge would find themselves [censored, bleeped, and expletive deleted].

    Do not celebrate voluntary slavery nor defend it in ignorance and arrogance.

    ON FREEDOM
    “ Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy KILLIN' AND MAIMIN' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em.”
    --- George Hanson (Easy Rider, 1969)
    Last edited by ozmirage; 17th May 2016 at 16:16.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Gee mr. mirage, how about you give us all the web site where you are copying and pasting from and just where you have obtained all your amazing wisdom and wizardry from so we can all go there and partake in your self delusional teachings.

    I do have a question or two for you. 1) do you have a SSN, Did you get one when you were born or did you fill out one of those SS-5 forms. 2) Do you have a Birth certificate with your name in all caps across the front of it? and if so have you cashed it in or do you still hold to your delusional path of "retread patriot Mythology"?.
    3) do you drive around in a mode of transportation and still purchace a drivers license. do you pay for the Registration. Or do you just walk everywhere with your cane in hand.
    4) Do you have an interest bearing account at some bank? That you had to give an SSN before you could open it.
    5) Are you a sovereign.
    6) Do you hold a BAR card my know it all about law or is it LAW, Can you actually show all of us that there is real law today?
    and by the way mr mirage, if you bring up the USC and put a bunch of that crap here, it is not law, it is only codes and statutes writen by Corporations for Corporate employees. So please do not give me the old tired same crude of the statutes and whatever else you might be copying and pasting from some web site that you have used forever.

    Now I know you are going to come back here and use part of my sentence structure and then plaster some almighty comment in red but you never answer folks questions but rather just try to vilify and minimize. You really don't seem to know what is going on in this world today. You continue to fall back into the 17th or 18th century and trully believe that we still have a republic. You do tell us partial truths but you seem to want all to believe exactly like you and unfortunatly your dream world does not work for most.

    You say you don't know Billy Foust, He was a dear friend of mine and he studied all that same stuff you are spouting. He did go further and did know exactly what these lawless pirates do. They abide by no law, The steal and rape and murder to take anything. And please do not give me the same old junk about giving your consent. no free human will willingly give consent to some one that wants to take everything or kill you. If you have really studied this rotten system we all dwell in today you would perhaps start telling us how to avoid these pitfalls and perhaps provide some real solutions instead of holding yourself up as a poor soul that states he was awakened back in 1992 and began to study law. I ask, what law did you study that you so pationatly call real law. Sounds to me like maybe you feel like you were totally taken to the cleaners by your own government or what you call a government.

    If you truly do the research you would know that we have no governments or real governments anywhere on this world. Do the tracking bud, everything is a Corporation and please don;t tell me that all governments are suppost to be corporations, That is an outright lie and I see that you know enough to know that.

    If that is the way you actually think then Sears or McDonalds can come to your house or domicile and take anything they want because it could be written into their corporate by-laws for their employees and by gum you went and purchased one of their happy meals and that made you an employee. Oh I am so sorry but ignorance of the law is no excuse. You forgot to read that reciept you got when you bought the meal didn't you. Says right here on the back that when you purchace this you are agreeing to become an employ.

    Well you are right mr mirage. When you fill out the form for SSN you agree to be an employee or the other shifty word for it is US CITIZEN. and how many folks know that is exactly what they are doing. So fill out a form any damn form and sign your name to it and guess what you give your consent weather you want to or not and you don't even know it do you mr mirage.

    Believe it or not mr mirage there are a whole heck of lot of folks out here that have studied this crap and more than likely a lot longer than your sorry little life. So when you try to vilify and minimize anyone by using your worn out phrase of "retread patriot Mythology" it just shows that you don't really want to answer or perhaps can't answer a real question with a real answer or even provide some beginning solution.

    Sorry for ranting on with this but when you say you don't know folks that have given their lives to do just that for us and when you say that those 82 men, women and children gave there consent to be murdered and when you insinuate that the Weavers gave their consent to be murdered on their private property then you sir are do a major disservice to people that did stand up against the tyranny that we all face today and there is no law my mirage. Well I suppose I can't say that truthfully. Because you and I do believe that we should live by a law and that my friend is a republic government. But the criminals that are in control and the PTB do not abide by any law and they will murder you for anything

    I have read your posts and I have followed this thread and I see you in contradiction so perhaps you who use that tired out phrase may actually be the one or one of those. Can't say for sure because I really don't know where you came up with it and what you might even think it means

    Can say this, I am sorry that you got so hurt back in 1992 and it seems that you may still be angry about it all but please, With all the knowledge you seem to portray, provide some real help. There are so many that hunt for the truth and just to spread your own truth is a great gift to give to all.

    Hello

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Frank O'Collins said it best when he portrayed TPTB as " bat**** crazy". They no longer follow their own so called laws and largely make them up on the fly. Frank, BTW, no longer makes public commentary" suggesting, at least to me that TPTB have effectively silenced him. We live in a world run by psychopaths, and since the rule of law is clearly broken, I believe it is misguided and disingenuous to suggest a sovereign argument of "I did not consent" would be an effective strategy to utilize against the psychopathic ruling "elite".

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Ozmirage, don't take these words too personally, but I must add that I believe Janis Joplin said it best when she sang
    "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose". This paradigm is not accidental; it is meant to test us.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote Posted by Lost N Found (here)
    Gee mr. mirage, how about you give us all the web site
    [I've been posting here for 15+ years.]

    where you are copying and pasting from and just where you have obtained all your amazing wisdom and wizardry from so we can all go there and partake in your self delusional teachings.
    [I admit that when I first started, in 1989, I was misled by paytriot mythologists, but once I restricted my search to LAW and related authorities, it was quite unequivocal.]

    I do have a question or two for you.
    1) do you have a SSN, Did you get one when you were born or did you fill out one of those SS-5 forms.
    [There is a numbered record held by SocSec admin. Since I ceased participating, it is not "mine." ]

    2) Do you have a Birth certificate with your name in all caps across the front of it? and if so have you cashed it in or do you still hold to your delusional path of "retread patriot Mythology"?.
    [I have found no legal reference that a b.c. is anything more than a convenience for applying for particular benefits, such as citizenship, passports, etc. Absent a b.c., one can use affidavits from TWO witnesses to one's birth and parentage. There is no evidence of "all caps names" having any force or effect of law, nor "cashing it in."
    If you have a court citation, statute or law, please let me know so I can research it myself.]

    3) do you drive around in a mode of transportation and still purchace a drivers license. do you pay for the Registration. Or do you just walk everywhere with your cane in hand.
    [Before I became visually impaired, I "traveled" in my private automobile. In the few run-ins with "Officer Friendly" I tendered my passport. After he ran the name and found no outstanding warrants, returned passport to me and said, "have a nice day." I also have corroborated various others who did "Travel" as a right.]
    4) Do you have an interest bearing account at some bank? That you had to give an SSN before you could open it.
    [No. That would be usury, an abomination and a violation of my religious beliefs.]
    5) Are you a sovereign.
    [Lacking a domicile, all I can claim are endowed rights as a freeman. In the event I acquire a domicile upon private property, I will be able to exercise sovereign prerogatives.]
    6) Do you hold a BAR card my know it all about law or is it LAW, Can you actually show all of us that there is real law today?
    [No BAR card. And your beliefs about "law" do not match the law.]

    and by the way mr mirage, if you bring up the USC and put a bunch of that crap here, it is not law, it is only codes and statutes writen by Corporations for Corporate employees.
    [If you believe that nonsense, we have nothing to discuss. FWIW - codes are compiled from statutes at law, as a convenience, but may not be complete. Always go back to the statutes.]


    So please do not give me the old tired same crude of the statutes and whatever else you might be copying and pasting from some web site that you have used forever.
    [As I have repeatedly written, I am not infallible. If you have FACTS that refute the data and conclusions posted, please present them. But if you make statements like 'law is crap and not really law,' you're being misled by the WGPM's disinformation agents.]

    Now I know you are going to come back here and use part of my sentence structure and then plaster some almighty comment in red but you never answer folks questions but rather just try to vilify and minimize.

    [If I have given offense, I humbly beg your pardon.
    I do not tolerate paytriot mythology, have wasted much $$$ and time on it, in the beginning (early 1990s). Only after I took time to READ THE LAW and not opinions of fabulists and con-men did things "click."]

    You really don't seem to know what is going on in this world today. You continue to fall back into the 17th or 18th century and trully believe that we still have a republic.
    [If you believe I wrote such nonsense, please re-read what I have repeatedly posted. A republican form is NOT synonymous with "a republic." Nor is it a "constitutional republic." ]

    You do tell us partial truths but you seem to want all to believe exactly like you and unfortunatly your dream world does not work for most.
    [A fact is not a partial truth. If you have FACTS that refute my facts, please present them.]


    You say you don't know Billy Foust, He was a dear friend of mine and he studied all that same stuff you are spouting. He did go further and did know exactly what these lawless pirates do. They abide by no law, The steal and rape and murder to take anything. And please do not give me the same old junk about giving your consent. no free human will willingly give consent to some one that wants to take everything or kill you. If you have really studied this rotten system we all dwell in today you would perhaps start telling us how to avoid these pitfalls and perhaps provide some real solutions instead of holding yourself up as a poor soul that states he was awakened back in 1992 and began to study law. I ask, what law did you study that you so pationatly call real law. Sounds to me like maybe you feel like you were totally taken to the cleaners by your own government or what you call a government.

    If you truly do the research you would know that we have no governments or real governments anywhere on this world.
    [That conclusion is patriot mythology.]

    Do the tracking bud, everything is a Corporation and please don;t tell me that all governments are suppost to be corporations, That is an outright lie and I see that you know enough to know that.
    [Believe it or not, even a monarchy is a corporation.
    Corporation Sole - a series of holders of a single office (e.g. the King or Queen or a bishop).]


    If that is the way you actually think then Sears or McDonalds can come to your house or domicile and take anything they want because it could be written into their corporate by-laws for their employees and by gum you went and purchased one of their happy meals and that made you an employee. Oh I am so sorry but ignorance of the law is no excuse. You forgot to read that reciept you got when you bought the meal didn't you. Says right here on the back that when you purchace this you are agreeing to become an employ.
    [Babbling nonsense does not refute my facts posted. With all due respect, you really have no clue.]

    Well you are right mr mirage. When you fill out the form for SSN you agree to be an employee or the other shifty word for it is US CITIZEN.
    [Actually, that is not true. It's old mythology. Participation in FICA is for access to ENTITLEMENTS - aka - public charity. As a pauper, one becomes a status criminal, excluded from the protections of the original charter / constitution. This has been part of the law since 1777. But mythologists tend to miss that. Ditto, for FDR's abolition of the Pauper's Oath as a prerequisite.
    More info:
    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ons/topics/361
    ]


    and how many folks know that is exactly what they are doing. So fill out a form any damn form and sign your name to it and guess what you give your consent weather you want to or not and you don't even know it do you mr mirage.

    Believe it or not mr mirage there are a whole heck of lot of folks out here that have studied this crap and more than likely a lot longer than your sorry little life.
    [I know that many study opinions of others, but few read the law, itself.]

    So when you try to vilify and minimize anyone by using your worn out phrase of "retread patriot Mythology" it just shows that you don't really want to answer or perhaps can't answer a real question with a real answer or even provide some beginning solution.

    Sorry for ranting on with this but when you say you don't know folks that have given their lives to do just that for us and when you say that those 82 men, women and children gave there consent to be murdered and when you insinuate that the Weavers gave their consent to be murdered on their private property then you sir are do a major disservice to people that did stand up against the tyranny that we all face today and there is no law my mirage.
    [You have insinuated much from nothing I wrote. If it helps you to support your beliefs, I can understand it. But repeated ad hominem attacks only weaken your argument. FACTS trump beliefs, and if you have FACTS, please present them.]

    Well I suppose I can't say that truthfully. Because you and I do believe that we should live by a law and that my friend is a republic government.
    [Again, I have never equated the republican form to a 'republic.' The People's Republic of China is a republic but it is NOT a republican form.]

    But the criminals that are in control and the PTB do not abide by any law and they will murder you for anything

    I have read your posts and I have followed this thread and I see you in contradiction
    [Please specify which facts are contradictory.]

    so perhaps you who use that tired out phrase may actually be the one or one of those. Can't say for sure because I really don't know where you came up with it and what you might even think it means

    Can say this, I am sorry that you got so hurt back in 1992 and it seems that you may still be angry about it all but please, With all the knowledge you seem to portray, provide some real help. There are so many that hunt for the truth and just to spread your own truth is a great gift to give to all.
    [FACTS are not necessarily the same as TRUTHS. It is true that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. But the FACT is that the earth ROTATES so it appears that the sun is moving. IF you base your view of the universe on appearances of truth, but not FACTS, you will be mistaken.]

    Hello
    The repeated ad hominem attacks are impressive. But facts are more impressive.
    If my animosity toward patriot mythology is perceived as a personal attack, I apologize. Those who peddled nonsense are at fault, not the victims.

    Please go read the law for yourself. I am not infallible. But if you maintain that there is no law or that there are only corporations, not governments, you will not perceive reality.

    Here's a short example of how a BELIEF is not the LAW.

    Everybody KNOWS there is a gun ban on school property.

    ..............
    18 USC Sec. 922 (q)
    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nations schools by enactment of this subsection.
    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    ................

    Let us stop here, and ponder what this code is telling us.
    That Congress only has the constitutional power to intrude because of INTERSTATE COMMERCE !
    (So they claim...)
    And that your neighborhood school is part of INTERSTATE COMMERCE of the USA.
    (So they claim...)
    And that any individual (who is not private property) possessing a firearm that has moved in INTERSTATE COMMERCE or is a school zone (Interstate commerce) is in violation.

    [Several colorful expletives deleted, as well as rude noises and blood squirting from eyes]

    Oh, but if YOU are private property (an endowed right), your private property gun is not in interstate commerce, nor part of school grounds.
    PHEW.... Thought one's right to bear arms was being infringed.

    It shall be unlawful for any individual who is NOT private property to knowingly possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    That’s the so-called “Gun Free Zone” law.

    Does it really apply to "Free Americans"?
    Or only those who consent?
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote Posted by Fiberglut (here)
    Ozmirage, don't take these words too personally, but I must add that I believe Janis Joplin said it best when she sang
    "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose". This paradigm is not accidental; it is meant to test us.
    If you wish to believe you can't be free unless you're reduced to nothing, please do not rattle your chains.

    The law says otherwise.

    -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

    "What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle, the sheet-anchor of American republicanism. Our Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
    - - - Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (1854)
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln

    As Lincoln reminds us, under the republican form, promised by the USCON, instituted by the Declaration of Independence, NO MAN (nor American government) is good enough to govern you without your consent. Without your consent, all that government is authorized to do is secure endowed (sacred) rights (prosecute trespass; adjudicate disputes; defend against enemies, foreign or domestic).

    Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, government has two jobs:
    ▸ [1] secure (endowed) rights and
    ▸ [2] govern those who consent.

    CAVEAT : consent waives job #1 !

    In reading the law, I continually find reference after reference that the government cannot infringe, tax or trespass upon ENDOWED RIGHTS. (Two exceptions : by consent, or in pursuit of justice on behalf of an injured party)

    "The revenue laws are a code or system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers, and not to nontaxpayers. The latter are without their scope. No procedure is prescribed for nontaxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law. With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither of the subject nor of the object of the revenue laws..."
    Economy Plumbing & Heating v. U.S., 470 F2d. 585 (1972)

    "The income tax is, therefore, not a tax on income as such. It is an excise tax with respect to certain activities and privileges which is measured by reference to the income which they produce. The income is not the subject of the tax: it is the basis for determining the amount of tax."
    --House Congressional Record, March 27, 1943, page 2580.
    Point: The republican form is still the law of the land, and endowed rights are still protected.
    Point: BUT if one has transferred to the democratic form and exercises privileges, those endowed rights are waived / surrendered.

    . . .
    “. . . The rights of the individual are not derived from governmental agencies, either municipal, state or federal, or even from the Constitution. They exist inherently in every man, by endowment of the Creator, and are merely reaffirmed in the Constitution, and restricted only to the extent that they have been VOLUNTARILY SURRENDERED BY THE CITIZENSHIP to the agencies of government. The people's rights are not derived from the government, but the government's authority comes from the people. The Constitution but states again these rights already existing, and when legislative encroachment by the nation, state, or municipality invade these original and permanent rights, it is the duty of the courts to so declare, and to afford the necessary relief. The fewer restrictions that surround the individual liberties of the citizen, except those for the preservation of the public health, safety, and morals, the more contented the people and the more successful the democracy.”
    - - - City of Dallas v. Mitchell, 245 S.W. 944, 945-46 (Tex.Civ.App.-Dallas 1922)
    . . .

    To paraphrase "The Planet of the Apes":
    DR. ZAIUS: The Republican Form was once a paradise. Your breed desecrated it ages ago.
    TAYLOR: It still doesn't give me the why...a country where socialist slaves evolved from free men? There's got to be an answer.
    DR. ZAIUS: Don't look for it, Taylor! You may not like what you'll find.

    {Upon discovery that they had given consent to their enslavement.}

    TAYLOR: You Maniacs! You Gave it Up! Oh, Damn You! G-d damn You Socialists and Usurers All to Hell!
    (And all their accomplices, collaborators, quislings, and useful idiots)

    " Natural liberty is the right which nature gives to all mankind, of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consonant to their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and that they do not in any way abuse it to the prejudice of other men."
    - - - Bouvier's Law Dictionary

    NATURAL LIBERTY - The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, unless by the law of nature. The right which nature gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner in which they judge most consistent with their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and so as not to interfere in the equal exercise of the same rights by other men. 1 Blackstone's Commentaries, 123,
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth edition, p. 919.

    "The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but, the individual's rights to live and own property are natural rights for the enjoyment of which an excise [tax] cannot be imposed."
    - - - Redfield vs Fisher, 292 P. 813, at 819.

    RFOG:
    {source: Declaration of Independence}
    [] Natural rights
    [] Natural liberty
    [] Personal liberty
    [] Absolute ownership
    [] Sovereign, served by government
    (Owes nothing to the government)

    Restated:
    American nationals, free inhabitants, sovereign people, absolutely own themselves, their labor, have the power of acting as they think fit, without any restraint or control, unless by the law of nature, upon their private property (absolutely owned) and upon unclaimed property. They have the right of locomotion upon the public roads and waterways.
    (Everywhere else one needs permission, or it is a trespass!).
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote Posted by Fiberglut (here)
    I believe it is misguided and disingenuous to suggest a sovereign argument of "I did not consent" would be an effective strategy to utilize against the psychopathic ruling "elite".
    You may be right. But you're conflating two different ideas. A sovereign (domiciled upon private property) is not an argument, as is "I did not consent to be governed."

    Laws that secure rights (prosecute criminal injury) do not require consent of the governed, or the accused.
    Laws that prosecute disobedience to policy, DO require consent of the governed.

    It may be immaterial, but bear with me on the following.
    (If he beget a son that) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
    Ezekiel 18:13 (KJV)
    If I understand this, it states that usurers are abominations under a death sentence, and the blame for his death is upon his own hands - not the one who kills him.

    You may also recall that the sole account of Jesus getting violent is when he whips the usurers (money changers) out of the temple. Remember, Jesus forgives those who crucify him, but whips the usurers. (Feel free to research the abomination of usury on your own)

    Coincidentally, I think the government does "Trust in God" and as long as they restrict their abuse to enumerated usurers, God will NOT intervene and inflict "Divine Wrath" on behalf of the suffering masses. Government does refrain from harassing those who are "outside" the system, as evidenced by the Amish, Mennonites, and other sects who refuse FICA and usury.

    Another coincidence is that Islam categorically forbids usury, and government acts strangely impotent with respect to them. Is there a connection?

    Maybe the "psychopaths" fear those who can rightly claim Divine Wrath on their behalf.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Oz,
    I do not in theory disagree with what you write. In fact, we are largely on the same page philosophically speaking, and I must say that I admire your courage for "walking the talk". I for one, lack that courage as I do not believe that TPTB have any respect for divine law (they are largely a Satanic cult when all is said and done). Perhaps I am just a coward with his own vested interest in a satanic system; unwilling to explore life as a "freeman", at least as of this moment.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Forgive me for being so naive but my feeling is, that getting deep into legalese to extricate oneself from this system of bondage, creates even more feters in my being than what I stared with. It's more of a burden to me to play this so called game of extraction, than to say fvck it I'm free. Without any paperwork.

    Thanks for all the information you've shared but ignorance is bliss for me in this situation. Ill continue spending my free time searching for freedom within rather than burdening myself with more information on the faint possibility of the system granting me external freedom..
    ISness is my business..

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Well shucks I guess I was right and the FACT that you came back with your red letter comments kind of says so doesn't mr mirage. You cannot tell me that you have taken yourself out of the FICA world. Well I can be wrong to some degree if you have quit working in this society and you have no bank accounts but WAIT!! if you are using FRN's to buy your commodities then you are way still in the system of debt are you not? Oh and by the way, you say that the SSN is not yours anymore, Well here is some news bud, The SSN never was yours, Says so on the back of the card, Ever read that? But by golly they sure put it on your BC and it is on so many things through out your life. So I sent an affidavit to that organization and told them that they do not have Power of Attorney over my trust account anymore and it is a trust account weather you believe it or not. So they sent me a form letter back saying that I could not extracate myself from their system.

    Mind you my affidavit never stated that I wanted to do that but rather I just told them that I was firing them from being a trustee. So you see They don't care and you will not be able to quit being in their system never never never as long as you are physically breathing. If you can and have done that please show all of us how to do it okay? And do not tell us that just because you stopped using the number you think you are not in that system anymore.

    More questions because you still haven't satisfactorily answered the first ones.
    You say that you can't be a sovereign because you do not have a domicile. Question - do you live in a building of any sort or do you live out in the woods on public land?
    You call yourself a freeman. Well guess what mr mirage That in itself is a Retread patriot mythology. The only freemen I know are dead in this system of the world today. If you are doing anything in the commerce of this world you are under the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which if you bother to research you might find that is the only LAWs that exist and that my friend is not divine law of any kind but rather a man made set of codes and policies that supposedly governs the entire world today. You keep talking about LAW but you keep using the UNITED STATES CODE as a reference.

    Now you tell me all about facts Well here is a Fact The USC is nothing more than Statutes Codes, policies and regulations It is not law but you want to call it LAW and that is what you have studied, is it not? Have you studied Common law and found that it is all equitable and Admiralty and Maritime LAW which is a LAW of the Sea which again is nothing more than the UCC. It all has to do with MONEY MY FRIEND AND NOTHING TO DO WITH DIVINE LAW AS OUR CREATOR ENDOWED TO US WHEN WE ARE BORN. So who really runs the world? and where are the laws You still haven't proven what is real law and how it differs from the USC.

    I would say this mr ghost, The one and only law that comes really into play and it is not used is DO NO HARM TO OTHERS. now common law in this respect said i "if there is no harm done or a victim then the law had not been broke. That is just a paraphrase but it is to the point. So then if you or I actually cause harm to another by taking their private property (and let me tell you private property includes you yourself and anything you have worked for by giving of your self) then the law is violated is it not.

    It is said that your freedom ends at the beginning of your neighbors nose. Could this be why Jesus said in the scriptures "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"?
    So tell me mr ghost what is LAW and where is it today in this world. Is it only where you reside and your only web site that you get all your info from Yeh! Yahoo. Forgot There is so much wisdom and understanding there

    Fact, If you are on this forum and you go to yahoo to read all your facts and you live in some place weather you own or rent then you cannot be a freeman or a soveriegn. Simply because you have and live in the commercial world and are governed by the UCC.

    Now not making a cut on this forum or even Yahoo. This Forum probably has more real info about what you might be trying to put forth that yahoo but it all is just a commercial endevor and the sad FACT is, that we all are trying to find some truth in this mafioso run world. Now you can give your studied knowledge to anyone that will listen and that is something good I say but please please please at least don't make it seem like you might be the only one with all the knowledge.

    Just saying there my friend we all are searching and we all need to do our own research and we all need to come to our own conclusions about what we find and understand. You do an alright job of providing information that you have come across and may even think it is all gospel but you have to give others a bennifit of doubt. We are all in this boat together and I for one will not throw someone overboard just so the rest can live. I be the first one to jump overboard to allow others to live and that is something that the Divine has given in a divine law to me.

    Now see, I may be contradicting also but just wanted you to know that I have done the same rabbit holes as you seem to have and I have hit the ends of the tunnels and moved off into others and it just seems to me that the rabbit holes are never ending so what do you think happens when you keep playing bumper car on those locked doors and what you might or may call a government does not give a damn about your little no account life to the PTB?

    Hello
    Last edited by Lost N Found; 19th May 2016 at 01:32.

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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote Posted by Lost N Found (here)
    Well shucks I guess I was right and the FACT that you came back with your red letter comments kind of says so doesn't mr mirage. You cannot tell me that you have taken yourself out of the FICA world. Well I can be wrong to some degree if you have quit working in this society and you have no bank accounts but WAIT!! if you are using FRN's to buy your commodities then you are way still in the system of debt are you not?

    More questions because you still haven't satisfactorily answered the first ones.
    You say that you can't be a sovereign because you do not have a domicile. Question - do you live in a building of any sort or do you live out in the woods on public land?
    You call yourself a freeman. Well guess what mr mirage That in itself is a Retread patriot mythology. The only freemen I know are dead in this system of the world today. If you are doing anything in the commerce of this world you are under the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which if you bother to research you might find that is the only LAWs that exist and that my friend is not divine law of any kind but rather a man made set of codes and policies that supposedly governs the entire world today. You keep talking about LAW but you keep using the UNITED STATES CODE as a reference.

    Now you tell me all about facts Well here is a Fact The USC is nothing more than Statutes Codes, policies and regulations It is not law but you want to call it LAW and that is what you have studied, is it not? Have you studied Common law and found that it is all equitable and Admiralty and Maritime LAW which is a LAW of the Sea which again is nothing more than the UCC. It all has to do with MONEY MY FRIEND AND NOTHING TO DO WITH DIVINE LAW AS OUR CREATOR ENDOWED TO US WHEN WE ARE BORN. So who really runs the world? and where are the laws You still haven't proven what is real law and how it differs from the USC.

    I would say this mr ghost, The one and only law that comes really into play and it is not used is DO NO HARM TO OTHERS. now common law in this respect said i "if there is no harm done or a victim then the law had not been broke. That is just a paraphrase but it is to the point. So then if you or I actually cause harm to another by taking their private property (and let me tell you private property includes you yourself and anything you have worked for by giving of your self) then the law is violated is it not.

    It is said that your freedom ends at the beginning of your neighbors nose. Could this be why Jesus said in the scriptures "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"?
    So tell me mr ghost what is LAW and where is it today in this world. Is it only where you reside and your only web site that you get all your info from Yeh! Yahoo. Forgot There is so much wisdom and understanding there

    Fact, If you are on this forum and you go to yahoo to read all your facts and you live in some place weather you own or rent then you cannot be a freeman or a soveriegn. Simply because you have and live in the commercial world and are governed by the UCC.

    Now not making a cut on this forum or even Yahoo. This Forum probably has more real info about what you might be trying to put forth that yahoo but it all is just a commercial endevor and the sad FACT is, that we all are trying to find some truth in this mafioso run world. Now you can give your studied knowledge to anyone that will listen and that is something good I say but please please please at least don't make it seem like you might be the only one with all the knowledge.

    Just saying there my friend we all are searching and we all need to do our own research and we all need to come to our own conclusions about what we find and understand. You do an alright job of providing information that you have come across and may even think it is all gospel but you have to give others a bennifit of doubt. We are all in this boat together and I for one will not throw someone overboard just so the rest can live. I be the first one to jump overboard to allow others to live and that is something that the Divine has given in a divine law to me.

    Now see, I may be contradicting also but just wanted you to know that I have done the same rabbit holes as you seem to have and I have hit the ends of the tunnels and moved off into others and it just seems to me that the rabbit holes are never ending so what do you think happens when you keep playing bumper car on those locked doors and what you might or may call a government does not give a damn about your little no account life to the PTB?

    Hello
    Thank you for the kind words of support.
    Since you resorted to personal invective, ad hominem, and lacked any factual rebuttal, you have acquiesced. Capitulation graciously accepted.

    Stating "I'm right" and ad hominem attacks do not equate to facts. Your conclusions may be heartfelt but there are no facts in support. You have failed to provide facts to refute what I have repeatedly posted.

    The facts I have repeatedly posted show that the LAW, as written, from 1776 onward, support the fact that there are TWO statuses recognized:
    __ Sovereign, and
    __ Subject.

    To have retained endowed rights and not consented to be governed is not quite but almost sovereign. Once one acquires a domicile (on private property), one can exercise sovereign prerogatives. Otherwise, one must comply with the requirements imposed by the landlord.

    Those who consented to be governed, surrender / waive endowed rights, by virtue of imposed mandatory civic duties, which may include militia duty - the obligation to train, fight, and die, on command.

    The effect of pauperization from participation in FICA is a more recent impairment, but does not overshadow the most debilitating impairment from consent to be a citizen.

    The bulk of your post is a mash up of old patriot mythology concocted to explain that which no one would recognize - the effects of one's CONSENT to be GOVERNED, and the decline in status from being a status criminal (pauper, vagabond).

    Since you sincerely believe that the code is not part of the law, we will have to agree to disagree.

    You stated:
    Quote Well here is a Fact The USC is nothing more than Statutes Codes, policies and regulations It is not law but you want to call it LAW and that is what you have studied, is it not?

    United States Code - a consolidation and codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States; is prepared and published by a unit of the United States House of Representatives.
    It is apparent that we can have no further dialog on the subject matter. You do not believe law exists except what you say it is, and I disagree with that conclusion.

    As to your claim of knowledge of the "Common law," that is suspect, because it is not what you claim it to be.
    LAW, COMMON. The common law is that which derives its force and authority from the universal consent and immemorial practice of the people. It has never received the sanction of the legislature, by an express act, which is the criterion by which it is distinguished from the statute law. It has never been reduced to writing; by this expression, however, it is not meant that all those laws are at present merely oral, or communicated from former ages to the present solely by word of mouth, but that the evidence of our common law is contained in our books of Reports, and depends on the general practice and judicial adjudications of our courts.
    2. The common law is derived from two sources, the common law of England, and the practice and decision of our own courts. In some states the English common law has been adopted by statute. There is no general rule to ascertain what part of the English common law is valid and binding.
    - - - Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1856 ed.


    COMMON LAW -"The system of jurisprudence, which originated in England and was later applied in the United States, which is based on judicial precedent rather than legislative enactments; it is contrasted with civil law (the descendent of Roman Law prevalent in other western [European] countries). ... generally derived from principles rather than rules; it does not consist of absolute, fixed, and inflexible rules, but rather the broad and comprehensible principles based on justice, reason and common sense."
    Ballantine’s Law dictionary, p.37


    LAW OF THE LAND -"Phrase first used in MAGNA CARTA referring to the then established law of the Kingdom as opposed to Roman or civil law. Refers today to fundamental principles of justice commensurate with due process of law those rights which the legislature cannot abolish or significantly limit, because they are so fundamental to our system of liberty and justice; The
    United States Constitution establishes itself, and the laws made under its authority, and treaties of the United States, as the supreme Law of the land [U.S. Constitution: Art.6 Sec.2]."
    Ballantine’s Law dictionary, p.117


    COMMON LAW
    “The general theory of the common law is, that all wrongs are divisible into two species; first, civil or private wrongs; secondly, criminal or public wrongs. The former are to be redressed by private suits, or remedies instituted by the parties injured. The latter are redressed by the state, acting in its sovereign capacity. The general description of private wrongs is, that they comprehend those injuries which affect the rights and property of the individual, and terminate there; that of public wrongs of offences is, that they comprehend such acts as injure, not merely individuals, but the community at large, by endangering the peace, the comfort, the good order, the policy, and even the existence of society.”
    - - - - Joseph Story and the Theory of the Common Law, from the Encyclopedia Americana
    Based on reading the Federalist Papers, you will find it mentioned that Georgia had nothing but common law courts. After the ratification of the USCON, all common law courts in Georgia were abolished (Encyclopedia of Georgia Law). This is due, in part, to the fact that the common law is only available to sovereigns, and no state government is sovereign, when its officers have to swear a dual oath, with the US Constitution being supreme. Also, no compact government can enforce "the common law" (unwritten) so all common law crimes were enacted as statutory crimes (murder, mayhem, burglary, extortion, etc.)
    Finally, pursuant to the seventh amendment, one can only demand the RULES of the common law, in controversies where the value exceeds 20 dollars (coin).

    (This does not detract from the sovereign people's authority to enforce the common law regarding trespass, as evidence in the right to defend private property with deadly force. Or do you dispute that posting "Private property - No Trespassing - Trespassers will be Shot!" is not part of the common law.)

    Furthermore, the FACT that is evident when one reads American law (that you refuse to accept as law) is that though it appears that the statutes are STRICT inflexible rules, the published law is riddled with exceptions, codicils, trap doors, and exclusions to prevent trespass upon endowed rights of the sovereign people.

    And even when not explicitly stated, there are implied exceptions that one can use, via "shall" and "may."
    (Mentioned here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1056194)

    An example of an exclusion related to the republican form: the infamous school zone gun ban.

    Title 18 USC Sec. 922 (q)(2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects INTERSTATE OR FOREIGN COMMERCE at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    (i) on PRIVATE PROPERTY not part of school grounds
    ;
    If you absolutely own yourself, your clothes and your firearm, you are private property not part of school grounds.

    (FYI : Title 18 is positive law.)

    Since you are repeatedly bringing up arguments already refuted, there can be no further communication on this matter. Welcome to "the ignored list."
    Last edited by ozmirage; 19th May 2016 at 02:18.
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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Quote Posted by Basho (here)
    Forgive me for being so naive but my feeling is, that getting deep into legalese to extricate oneself from this system of bondage, creates even more feters in my being than what I stared with. It's more of a burden to me to play this so called game of extraction, than to say fvck it I'm free. Without any paperwork.

    Thanks for all the information you've shared but ignorance is bliss for me in this situation. Ill continue spending my free time searching for freedom within rather than burdening myself with more information on the faint possibility of the system granting me external freedom..
    The urging to read law and get deep into it, is because we all need some foundation.

    One can simplify the two status and forms:
    RFOG:
    {source: Declaration of Independence}
    [] Natural rights
    [] Natural liberty
    [] Personal liberty
    [] Absolute ownership
    [] Sovereign, served by government
    (Owes nothing to the government)
    . . .
    DFOG:
    {source: compact / constitution}
    [] Civil rights
    [] Civil liberty
    [] Political liberty
    [] Qualified ownership
    [] Subject of the government, by consent
    (Owes mandatory civic duties, etc)
    . . .
    When reading any American law ask yourself:
    ● Is this law securing the rights of an injured party?
    ● Is this law imposed upon only those who gave consent?
    ● Is this law internal to the administration of the government?
    . . .
    But if you do not know the sources and authorities that support these concepts, you'd be at a loss.

    For example, there are some who argue that one owes their "fair share" to the government for its support.

    ". . . There is a clear distinction in this particular case between an individual and a corporation, and that the latter has no right to refuse to submit its books and papers for an examination at the suit of the State. The individual may stand upon his constitutional right as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no such duty to the State, since he receives nothing therefrom, beyond the protection of his life and property. HIS RIGHTS ARE SUCH AS EXISTED BY THE LAW OF THE LAND (*COMMON LAW) LONG ANTECEDENT TO THE ORGANIZATION OF THE STATE, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are refusal to incriminate himself, and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights. "
    - - - Hale vs Henkel, 201 U.S. 43.
    Ironically, if one has been following previous posts, one would grimace at the claim that " The individual may stand upon his constitutional right as a citizen."
    A) Citizens do not have endowed rights, having surrendered them.
    B) Government granted privileges may be called constitutional rights, but they're not endowed rights.
    Of course, if one is aware of the double speak, one can see that references to "an individual" is not synonymous with "a citizen." And that a non-citizen individual DOES have endowed rights that existed before the organization of the State. And that such an individual does not own anything to the public as long as he does not trespass upon their rights.
    BUT
    AS George Washington's letter reminds us - all citizens owe a duty and a portion of their property to the STATE. However, this particular case is a demand for private papers, which are NOT covered under the civic obligations imposed for citizens.

    The government's budget devoted to "securing endowed rights" via the judiciary is a small fraction compared to the portion devoted to "governing those who consent" and who "participate in the entitlement programs." In the event that a majority withdraw consent from national socialism and the democratic form, the resulting decline in revenues would not impact the execution of duties to secure endowed rights. But everything else would be impossible to fund.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 19th May 2016 at 03:27.
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    Default Re: Americans Squandered Their Birthright of Sovereignty

    Capitalism is actually part of the REPUBLICAN FORM

    Yet, some claim that “capitalism” is corrupt.
    . . .
    There is nothing "corrupt" about an individual absolutely owning himself, his labor and the fruits of his labor.
    . . .
    In fact, absolute ownership is the foundation of the sovereignty, freedom and liberty of the American.
    . . .
    However, what most people are led to believe about “capitalism” is wholly incorrect.

    CAPITALISM - An economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are privately owned and operated for private profit.
    - - - WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY

    PRIVATE PROPERTY - "As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
    - - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217
    If you concatenate capitalism with private property, you can see the "inconvenient truth".

    - Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit. -

    This definition does NOT include usury, gambling, speculation, extortion, or other predatory practices usually attributed to "capitalism." Stock corporations and banks are creatures of government, granted the privilege to exist, hence they’re not exercising a right.

    "The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but, the individual's rights to live and own property are natural rights for the enjoyment of which an excise [tax] cannot be imposed."
    - - - Redfield vs Fisher, 292 P. 813, at 819.
    True capitalism is an endowed right, derived from the birthright to absolutely own one’s person, labor and property. False capitalism is a smokescreen to hide predators and usurers, operating by permission of the State.

    • A farmer who absolutely owns his farm is a true capitalist.
    • A businessman who absolutely owns his business is a true capitalist.
    • A stockholder of a corporation is engaged in usury, which preys upon true capitalism.
    . . .
    . . .
    And since the government routinely "takes" property and does not pay just compensation (no lawful money since 1933), no one has absolute ownership (thanks to FICA).

    --------------
    Communism, Socialism and Collectivism, in general

    From the Communist manifesto:
    "In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

    (In other words, good socialists do not absolutely own themselves, their labor, the fruits of that labor, and any property they acquire. They need State permission.)

    If you comprehend this, you may better understand the tragedy that has befallen America, since 1933.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 20th May 2016 at 05:02.
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