+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36

Thread: The Oera Linda manuscript

  1. Link to Post #1
    Argentina Avalon Member ketikoti's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th January 2011
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    528
    Thanked 211 times in 41 posts

    Default The Oera Linda manuscript

    I stumbled upon an intriguing story on red ice creations the other day which should not be exempt from the wonderfull repository of Project Avalon:
    It is about the Oera Linda manuscript. A very old text that was inherited by a man (Cornelis over de Linden) in WestFriesland, The Netherlands in the 19th century and it was said to tell the family history. He tried hard to get it translated by linguists of his time, and it revealed a fascinating history of a bronze age world civilization since antediluvian times.

    It was so out-of-place that it is regarded as a hoax, but it has remarkably similarity with the Ior Bock Saga and the family legends of Karl Maria Willigut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Maria_Wiligut).

    To get an idea of the content, peek at http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb02.htm and a nice documentary made by Jan Ott who is investigating





    For more info on the Ior Bock Saga please look at these threads:
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...274-Bock-Sa-Ga
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...e-and-history-

    If the Oera Linda book is a hoax, it is a very elaborate one.

    For more background:
    http://fryskednis.blogspot.de/
    http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbstadermann.html
    I don’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m frightened of the old ones. (John Cage)

  2. The Following 41 Users Say Thank You to ketikoti For This Post:

    Agape (2nd April 2016), Antagenet (9th July 2021), Aurelius (4th April 2016), Bill Ryan (31st March 2016), Billy (31st March 2016), BoR (26th December 2021), Brodie75 (8th January 2022), Cardillac (31st March 2016), DNA (5th April 2016), Ewan (31st March 2016), ExomatrixTV (30th December 2021), Foxie Loxie (31st March 2016), GaelVictor (31st March 2016), gord (31st March 2016), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Hervé (31st March 2016), jcocks (31st March 2016), justntime2learn (31st March 2016), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), kirolak (1st April 2016), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Latti (31st March 2016), Lefty Dave (31st March 2016), Maknocktomb (31st March 2016), Mashika (10th January 2022), meat suit (2nd April 2016), moekatz (31st March 2016), Nasu (31st March 2016), pabranno (3rd September 2023), raregem (31st March 2016), Richard S. (1st April 2016), sdv (31st March 2016), Sequoia (1st April 2016), Spiral (30th December 2021), Stephanie (1st April 2016), Sunny-side-up (31st March 2016), toppy (30th December 2021), william r sanford72 (31st March 2016), XelNaga (26th December 2021), Zampano (10th November 2016)

  3. Link to Post #2
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,274
    Thanks
    209,041
    Thanked 457,560 times in 32,794 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by ketikoti (here)

    To get an idea of the content, peek at http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb02.htm
    Fascinating. Very briefly, this (the link above) was a detailed, scholarly paper about the manuscript which was read at a meeting of the Frisian Society, February 1871. This section kind of jumped out:

    To fix the date we must start from the year 1256 of our era, when Hiddo overa Linda made the copy, in which he says that it was 3449 years after Atland was sunk. This disappearance of the old land (âldland, âtland) was known by the Greeks, for Plato mentions in his "Timæus," 24, the disappearance of Atlantis, the position of which was only known as somewhere far beyond the Pillars of Hercules. From this writing it appears that it was land stretching far out to the west of Jutland, of which Heligoland and the islands of North Friesland are the last barren remnants. This event, which occasioned a great dispersion of the Frisian race, became the commencement of a chronological reckoning corresponding with 2193 before Christ, and is known by geologists as the Cimbrian flood.

    Here's where North Friesland (now known as Nordfriedland) is:


  4. The Following 25 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Agape (2nd April 2016), Billy (31st March 2016), BoR (26th December 2021), Cardillac (31st March 2016), DNA (5th April 2016), Ewan (31st March 2016), Foxie Loxie (31st March 2016), GaelVictor (31st March 2016), gord (31st March 2016), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Hervé (31st March 2016), justntime2learn (31st March 2016), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), kirolak (1st April 2016), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Mashika (10th January 2022), moekatz (31st March 2016), Nasu (31st March 2016), poetbil (31st March 2016), raregem (31st March 2016), Spiral (30th December 2021), Sunny-side-up (31st March 2016), toppy (30th December 2021), william r sanford72 (31st March 2016)

  5. Link to Post #3
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    66
    Posts
    5,659
    Thanks
    26,233
    Thanked 36,600 times in 5,379 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Then the phrase "far beyond the pillars of Hercules" is not a direction but a distance...

  6. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), kirolak (1st April 2016), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Nasu (31st March 2016), sunwings (26th September 2018), toppy (30th December 2021), william r sanford72 (31st March 2016)

  7. Link to Post #4
    United States Avalon Member Foxie Loxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th September 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Age
    79
    Posts
    3,078
    Thanks
    67,683
    Thanked 17,639 times in 2,960 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Thanks for introducing me to something I had never heard of!

  8. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Foxie Loxie For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), Brodie75 (8th January 2022), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), kirolak (1st April 2016), Kryztian (27th December 2021), moekatz (31st March 2016), Nasu (31st March 2016), toppy (30th December 2021)

  9. Link to Post #5
    Germany Avalon Member
    Join Date
    31st May 2010
    Location
    SW Germany
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,764
    Thanks
    2,372
    Thanked 9,188 times in 1,661 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    @ketikoti

    yes, I already listened to the interview on Redice- fascinating info- I can't wait until Ott's book is published-

    please be well all-

    Larry :-)

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Cardillac For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), kirolak (1st April 2016), Nasu (31st March 2016), toppy (30th December 2021)

  11. Link to Post #6
    Wales Avalon Member meat suit's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st January 2012
    Location
    on the coast
    Language
    German
    Age
    58
    Posts
    983
    Thanks
    5,737
    Thanked 5,006 times in 904 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    I havent got time to go thru this video at the moment, but from memory there are ancient maps and references in this video to an island called 'Friesland' which is now under water...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

  12. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to meat suit For This Post:

    Antagenet (9th July 2021), Bill Ryan (25th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), BushPilot (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), ketikoti (4th April 2016), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  13. Link to Post #7
    Argentina Avalon Member ketikoti's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th January 2011
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    528
    Thanked 211 times in 41 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by meat suit (here)
    I havent got time to go thru this video at the moment, but from memory there are ancient maps and references in this video to an island called 'Friesland' which is now under water...
    Frisland as referenced in the above link provided by "meat suit' is a phantom island Frisland that occurs on some old maps, as described on wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisland
    Last edited by ketikoti; 4th April 2016 at 13:07.
    I don’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m frightened of the old ones. (John Cage)

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ketikoti For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), BushPilot (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  15. Link to Post #8
    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th May 2019
    Location
    Near Chizzit Land
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    25,348
    Thanked 12,979 times in 1,342 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    A serendipitous find - Catherine Austin Fitts interviewing Jan Ott, who has published an updated translation of the Oera Linda Boek (that I've had in mind to get next payday). They discuss the provenance and questions of authenticity of the book, what it conveys and how it might be relevant today.


  16. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to Brigantia For This Post:

    Antagenet (3rd September 2023), Bill Ryan (25th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), Brodie75 (8th January 2022), BushPilot (26th December 2021), Ewan (26th December 2021), gini (26th December 2021), gord (25th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (26th December 2021), Inversion (26th December 2021), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (26th December 2021), norman (26th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  17. Link to Post #9
    Croatia Administrator Franny's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd January 2011
    Location
    Island Time
    Posts
    3,133
    Thanks
    53,112
    Thanked 14,316 times in 2,099 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    A fascinating story, thanks. I found the book at zlibrary, haven't read it yet, just downloaded it. The site has several versions at no cost, enjoy.

    https://u1lib.org/s/Oera%20Linda
    A million galaxies are a little foam on that shoreless sea. ~ Rumi

  18. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Franny For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), Brigantia (26th December 2021), BushPilot (26th December 2021), Ewan (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (26th December 2021), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), Kryztian (27th December 2021), norman (26th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  19. Link to Post #10
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,309 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Franny (here)
    A fascinating story, thanks. I found the book at zlibrary, haven't read it yet, just downloaded it. The site has several versions at no cost, enjoy.

    https://u1lib.org/s/Oera%20Linda
    Thank you. Here is a reading of 1876 translation from Dutch translation to English translation


  20. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Antagenet (3rd September 2023), Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), Brigantia (26th December 2021), BushPilot (26th December 2021), Ewan (26th December 2021), ExomatrixTV (30th December 2021), Franny (26th December 2021), gini (28th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), norman (26th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  21. Link to Post #11
    Netherlands Avalon Member
    Join Date
    9th June 2017
    Location
    Inside my Skin!
    Language
    Dutch
    Posts
    1,219
    Thanks
    2,589
    Thanked 7,294 times in 1,173 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by ketikoti (here)

    To get an idea of the content, peek at http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb02.htm
    Fascinating. Very briefly, this (the link above) was a detailed, scholarly paper about the manuscript which was read at a meeting of the Frisian Society, February 1871. This section kind of jumped out:

    To fix the date we must start from the year 1256 of our era, when Hiddo overa Linda made the copy, in which he says that it was 3449 years after Atland was sunk. This disappearance of the old land (âldland, âtland) was known by the Greeks, for Plato mentions in his "Timæus," 24, the disappearance of Atlantis, the position of which was only known as somewhere far beyond the Pillars of Hercules. From this writing it appears that it was land stretching far out to the west of Jutland, of which Heligoland and the islands of North Friesland are the last barren remnants. This event, which occasioned a great dispersion of the Frisian race, became the commencement of a chronological reckoning corresponding with 2193 before Christ, and is known by geologists as the Cimbrian flood.

    Here's where North Friesland (now known as Nordfriedland) is:

    That's where the Frisians originated from yes (not many know this Bill, chapeau), but Friesland is more down South West. Friesland is now a province of the Netherlands and Ost-Friesland one of Germany.

    The Fries came and colonized the area (my suspicion is that it might have been due to falling sea levels). The Fries settled the area all the way down to the city of Bruges (means harbor in Norse).



    As a matter of fact, the Dutch are actually Danish, time forgot though (we still have a similar sense of humor which is not always understood by others, except the Danes, :-)

    Side note, there have been scholars claiming that the entire story of the Odyssey actually took place in and around Scandinavia, not in the Med.

  22. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to 9ideon For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), Brigantia (26th December 2021), BushPilot (26th December 2021), Ewan (26th December 2021), ExomatrixTV (30th December 2021), Franny (26th December 2021), gord (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Spiral (30th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  23. Link to Post #12
    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th May 2019
    Location
    Near Chizzit Land
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    25,348
    Thanked 12,979 times in 1,342 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Mad Scientist (here)
    As a matter of fact, the Dutch are actually Danish, time forgot though (we still have a similar sense of humor which is not always understood by others, except the Danes, :-)

    Side note, there have been scholars claiming that the entire story of the Odyssey actually took place in and around Scandinavia, not in the Med.
    Well, I did get my Dutch ex-sister in law's jokes, maybe I have some Dutch ancestry...

    The Odyssey is a tale that makes no sense if you apply it to the Aegean and Mediterranean seas; frequent storms and dense fogs for example. I've read Felice Vinci's book that places the Odyssey in the Baltic, everything fits such as the weather, the topography, the place names and the myths of Scandinavia.

    I'm following a lot of the research on British history that is challenging the narrative of the Romans civilising Britain. Northern Europe has the mainstream narrative that they were all primitive savages but the deeper you question this, the picture looks entirely different. It's a deep and fascinating rabbit hole.
    Last edited by Brigantia; 26th December 2021 at 11:58.

  24. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Brigantia For This Post:

    9ideon (26th December 2021), Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), DNA (8th January 2022), ExomatrixTV (30th December 2021), Franny (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (26th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  25. Link to Post #13
    Netherlands Avalon Member
    Join Date
    9th June 2017
    Location
    Inside my Skin!
    Language
    Dutch
    Posts
    1,219
    Thanks
    2,589
    Thanked 7,294 times in 1,173 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Quote Posted by Mad Scientist (here)
    As a matter of fact, the Dutch are actually Danish, time forgot though (we still have a similar sense of humor which is not always understood by others, except the Danes, :-)

    Side note, there have been scholars claiming that the entire story of the Odyssey actually took place in and around Scandinavia, not in the Med.
    Well, I did get my Dutch ex-sister in law's jokes, maybe I have some Dutch ancestry...

    The Odyssey is a tale that makes no sense if you apply it to the Aegean and Mediterranean seas; frequent storms and dense fogs for example. I've read Felice Vinci's book that places the Odyssey in the Baltic, everything fits such as the weather, the topography, the place names and the myths of Scandinavia.

    I'm following a lot of the research on British history that is challenging the narrative of the Romans civilising Britain. Northern Europe has the mainstream narrative that they were all primitive savages but the deeper you question this, the picture looks entirely different. It's a deep and fascinating rabbit hole.
    I smell a Topic here, :-)

  26. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to 9ideon For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), Brigantia (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  27. Link to Post #14
    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    15th November 2011
    Language
    English
    Posts
    4,400
    Thanks
    29,165
    Thanked 35,513 times in 4,312 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    The Odyssey is a tale that makes no sense if you apply it to the Aegean and Mediterranean seas; frequent storms and dense fogs for example. I've read Felice Vinci's book that places the Odyssey in the Baltic, everything fits such as the weather, the topography, the place names and the myths of Scandinavia.
    Don't buy that.

    To return to Greece from Troy (in northwestern Turkey today) Odysseus need merely sail west across the Aegean. He'd have to round the Peloponnese to reach Ithaca, but the course presents no possibility of being swept accidentally into Scandinavian waters.

    I love The Odyssey, and read it several times. It follows The Iliad, and was set down by, or in part written by, Homer. It's a collection of probably different oral stories and fables taken from different places and different times but combined into a single literary work. But it is Greek in origin.

    Beware revisionists trying to re-write our history. It's often far less driven by historical data than agenda. I have no clue what agenda is at work to put the Odyssey in the Baltic region. Many of the places in the Odyssey tie in to real life locations in the Mediterranean, like Thrinacia (Sicily), Land of the Lotus-eaters (almost certainly somewhere on the north coast of Africa, likely Libya), Aeolia (Aeolian islands, near Sicily, today), and the treacherous waters of the Strait of Messina, they contain whirlpools sufficiently powerful to wreck ancient sea-craft; this was the source of the sea-monsters Scylla and Charybdis that Odysseus ran afoul of.

    These 'scholars' are most adept at lining things up to achieve a reasonable (retro)fit, but only at the expense of certain 'inconvenient' facts (which they choose to ignore). Like a mainstream documentary not so long ago about Plato's Atlantis. They tried, endlessly, nauseatingly, to put Atlantis in Sardinia, or Santorini, or some stupid place. They only managed it by totally excluding Plato's written account! (this in a doc about Plato's Atlantis). For example pretty much his opening statement: "This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean". Their premise was flawed from the outset. Convenient facts were cherry-picked, and inconvenient facts not mentioned at all.

    They're doing this with Atlantis all the damn time. Atlantis is finding itself placed all over the world, from the North Sea to South America, and that certainly is agenda-driven.

    You could probably relocate Homer's Odyssey to the Indonesian islands too, and sort of make it fit the geography, and sort of make it adhere to local legends, if you pushed, pulled, squeezed and mutilated the various pieces hard enough. But it doesn't make it accurate.

    Certainly there are many corollaries between the Norse pantheon and its sagas and ancient Greek myth. If there's any connection, it's much more likely that Norse folklore was inspired by, and emerged from, ancient Greek myth, not that it is ancient Greek myth misidentified.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

  28. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Mark (Star Mariner) For This Post:

    9ideon (27th December 2021), Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), DNA (8th January 2022), Franny (26th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Spiral (30th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  29. Link to Post #15
    Netherlands Avalon Member
    Join Date
    26th October 2019
    Posts
    151
    Thanks
    998
    Thanked 1,117 times in 139 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Thanks for posting the interview. It gives an excellent insight into the book, which is one of my favorite subjects. Like i said before on another thread, I am of the conviction that all Germanic and Scandinavian people have common ancestry, as in: they were once one ‘tribe’/nation that lost knowledge of its history.

    One thing I always thought odd was that it is a no no to speak too positively about your own language. Which is a strange thing that occurs in Dutch and I also believe in German society. And I have the impression this is also true for the Danish, Swedish and the Scandinavian countries. I believe this ‘belittling’ of the language and putting other languages on a pedestal is a sign to me of the suppression of our history and original culture, and our identity.

    Let me be break this awful habit by doing the opposite here: I think all Germanic languages are very beautiful, they are all beautiful in their unique way. And my personal favorites are Danish and, yes my own language. Alright, I said it now!

    It is just too bad that one well known awful person from the 20th century tried to revive the pride of Germanic heritage with mischievous intentions to achieve totalitarianism. But I also see that as part of the further oppression as well, but that is for another discussion. But it is also clear to me this person would not have promoted Oera Linda. As Jan Ott says in this interview: this book teaches people to hold on to freedom and
    reject and fight slavery.

  30. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to BoR For This Post:

    9ideon (27th December 2021), Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), Brigantia (26th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), kfm27917 (27th December 2021), Kryztian (27th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (27th December 2021), Reinhard (29th December 2021), Spiral (30th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  31. Link to Post #16
    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th May 2019
    Location
    Near Chizzit Land
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    25,348
    Thanked 12,979 times in 1,342 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    I love The Odyssey, and read it several times. It follows The Iliad, and was set down by, or in part written by, Homer. It's a collection of probably different oral stories and fables taken from different places and different times but combined into a single literary work. But it is Greek in origin.
    One thing I would say about that is that there has been much discussion in mainstream academia through the years about these anomalies in the Odyssey, also about the fact that Odysseus is not a name of Greek etymology.

    Hardly anyone believes that Heinrich Schliemann's Turkish site of Troy is the genuine site, there are too many anomalies and many now believe that he was a fortune-seeking charlatan.

  32. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Brigantia For This Post:

    9ideon (27th December 2021), Bill Ryan (26th December 2021), BoR (26th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), Gwin Ru (26th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Kryztian (28th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (27th December 2021), Reinhard (29th December 2021), toppy (30th December 2021)

  33. Link to Post #17
    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    15th November 2011
    Language
    English
    Posts
    4,400
    Thanks
    29,165
    Thanked 35,513 times in 4,312 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)

    One thing I would say about that is that there has been much discussion in mainstream academia through the years about these anomalies in the Odyssey, also about the fact that Odysseus is not a name of Greek etymology.
    Maybe some say that, but we're not talking about a lost civilization here, like Atlantis or Mu. This is Greece, about which a great deal is known, because its history was recorded. Scholars have been studying these histories for centuries, and armchair scholars like me have been following along.

    Looking at my father's copy of the Odyssey, a book he actually bound himself as a Classics student at University in the mid-fifties, the tale of how Odysseus was named is recounted by the character Autolycus:

    "Yes, let me be his godfather. In the course of my lifetime I have made enemies of many a man and woman up and down the wide world. So let this child be called Odysseus, 'the victim of enmity'. "

    Accordingly, we have an account of what the name 'Odysseus' means. Homer uses the verb ὀδυσσάμενος in the original Greek, meaning "to be wroth against", which is written in English, odyssamenos - Odysseus. So there's your Greek etymology.

    His naming is in keeping with and characteristic of the time; sons of kings and other heroes were most often named for a trait they (the king) possessed or a feat they performed. Odysseus's father was Laertes, King of the Cephallenians, whose home was Cephallenia - today Cephalonia, or Kefalonia, in the Ionian islands (Western Greece). Nowhere near Scandinavia. There are also other variants of the name Odysseus that derive from other works, ancient Greek inscriptions and so forth. Suffice it say, if he existed at all, and I'm not arguing he definitely did (most likely he's a combination of characters, and the events of the Odyssey are a combination of legends), he was Greek, came out of Greek folklore, and belonged solely to Greece.

    Another key character in the Iliad – and one of Odysseus's closest friends and allies – was of course Agamemnon, King of the Mycenaeans. Who's calling Mycenae a Scandinavian nation? No-one. It's in southern Greece, for real (I've been there). It was, virtually, during its time, an empire that dominated the Mediterranean. Many other countries and cultures in the Mediterranean record them and name them in their histories. The brother of Agamemnon was Menelaus, husband of Helen herself. He was King of Sparta, whose location also isn't questioned (it's also in southern Greece), and a good deal about its history and culture is also known.

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Hardly anyone believes that Heinrich Schliemann's Turkish site of Troy is the genuine site, there are too many anomalies and many now believe that he was a fortune-seeking charlatan.
    That sounds like the voice of an agenda-driven author at work. It just isn't true in reality. The ruin of Hisarlik in northwestern Turkey is generally and very widely accepted as the location of Homer's Troy. I mean, seriously, widely accepted. Personally, I accept it strongly, because the evidence that it is Troy is very persuasive. A very great, very rich, fortified bronze age city existed on that site. It was very great in Odysseus's time and far before. The most interesting layer of the excavation is Troy VII, which dates to the 13th century BC, bang on for Troy. It was destroyed in a great burning at that time, also bang on for Troy.

    Artists impression of the citadel of ancient Ilium at Hisarlik, late bronze age (this based on actual physical evidence in the archaeology conducted there)



    Schliemann was less an archaeologist and scholar than a treasure-seeker. Some of his methods were crude and really quite destructive. But he was a man of his time. In the mid 19th century there really was no 'proper way' to excavate, archaeology being in its infancy. Another blot against him is that he didn't really 'discover' the site of Troy anyway, he was only excavating there at the advice of British archaeologist Frank Calvert. Today though, I'd say, Schliemann is considered a bit of a visionary and a pioneer for the discoveries he made, including Troy (he also led excavations at Mycenae). He basically inspired and kick-started a whole era of scholastic study into ancient Greece, and for that I thank him.

    Also bear in mind that Troy being located in northwestern Turkey did not originate in Schliemann's time. It's worthwhile considering the historical context. The site of Ilium, or Troy, was being visited by pilgrims even in the late Hellenistic period. Alexander the Great was supposedly one such visitor (a thousand years after the Trojan war). Apparently, in his writings, the Spanish explorer Pedro Tafur visited Troy some time in the 15th century. He located it on the sea, opposite the isle of Tenedos, in northwestern Turkey. (Maybe what was there at that time and what he saw was some other ruin; there being multiple bronze age settlements/ruins in the general area, but its proximity to Hisarlik is an interesting coincidence.)

    Forgive my lengthy and impassioned rebuttal here, but this triggers me (did I really say that?!). But actually it does. Ancient cultures, civilizations, and history is something very close to my heart, and I've always had a deep love for Greece. These hacks trying to re-write history in their own image and for their own gain kind of piss me right off.

    You really should read the Iliad and the Odyssey Brigantia, and make a list of all the Greek references within, all the Mediterranean locations mentioned and visited, and the over-arching people around which and to which all these events take place: the Achaeans. In other words, the Greeks.

    (PS, if mods deem this conversation is off-topic and should be moved to its own thread, by all means...)
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

  34. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Mark (Star Mariner) For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (28th December 2021), Brigantia (28th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), DNA (8th January 2022), Gwin Ru (28th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Kryztian (28th December 2021), mojo (28th December 2021), Reinhard (29th December 2021)

  35. Link to Post #18
    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th May 2019
    Location
    Near Chizzit Land
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    25,348
    Thanked 12,979 times in 1,342 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    My apologies for the late reply Star Mariner; I was working yesterday evening and today was a day of 2 laundry loads plus other chores.

    I'm sorry that you feel triggered by what I wrote, that was never my intention as I always aim to debate rather than provoke. Perhaps we could agree to disagree?

    I have read the Iliad and Odyssey, at school and university as I did aim for a degree in Classics, but never graduated. I've had 3 attempts at graduating but something calamitous always arose, forcing me to give it up - even though I only need to do a final year to get my 360 points, I'm not tempting fate anymore! I also did some archaeology modules and had some sotto voce conversations with a very frank lecturer who - as well as other subjects - acknowledged the Schliemann site anomalies; too small, and the burn layer doesn't look extensive.

    Without going into any depth as I've covered it before, I had a deep dive into Fomenko's work last summer with a friend. We double-checked his facts as much as we could and corroborated much of it, and the fact remains that there are no copies of the Classics that pre-date the Renaissance, with the exception of the fragments of Plato and Asclepius that were found at Nag Hammadi. The demand by aristocrats for ancient manuscripts at that time was so great, with huge sums of money paid for them, that we cannot discount that some may have been forged.

    I have to say that what we uncovered rocked me to the core, I've visited magnificent ancient sites extensively in Italy, Greece and Cyprus in the past. One thing that I did was dig out a book I bought at Pompeii of the ruins, with comparative illustrations of what they would have looked like before the eruption. I was shocked to see what looked like the old quarter of any Italian town today. So... the style of architecture hadn't changed in 1500 years...

    Whilst I remain open-minded about it, we discuss conspiracies and cover-ups of more recent times elsewhere on this forum - could similar distortions of history have been going on for a very long time? That's not a statement, just throwing out a question, and I don't feel that any subjects should be off-limits for scrutiny.

    I did quite a lengthy post here on some of my research on trying to make sense of ancient British history if anyone is interested. The linguistic study of the age of the split between Frisian and Old English is very interesting for the Oera Linda narrative; I should have added there that the dates quoted are 'no earlier than' and 'no later than'.

  36. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Brigantia For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (28th December 2021), BoR (29th December 2021), Brodie75 (29th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), gord (28th December 2021), Gwin Ru (28th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Kryztian (28th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (29th December 2021), mojo (28th December 2021), Reinhard (29th December 2021)

  37. Link to Post #19
    Avalon Member Kryztian's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th September 2012
    Posts
    3,487
    Thanks
    23,704
    Thanked 29,414 times in 3,425 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Without going into any depth as I've covered it before, I had a deep dive into Fomenko's work last summer with a friend. We double-checked his facts as much as we could and corroborated much of it,
    That's great! You might want to tell us about that on this thread:
    What is Clif High smoking? (Anatoly Fomenko's theory of the "New Chronology")

    I listened to Jan Ott's interview with Catherine Fitts and when he mentioned this intersection between ancient Greece and Magna Frisia I instantly thought of Formenko and his very different paradigm of human history and wondered if that was behind Ott's theories. Either way, this shouldn't mar our appreciation of these ancient texts and authors. Whether or not you think the play Hamlet was written by a man of humble beginnings from Stratford on Avon or by the Earl of Oxford, this does not diminish the power of Shakespeare's greatness. I think the same goes for the The Illiad and The Odyssey. Glad we all share an appreciation for the power of these works, something that comes through regardless of what ever mysteries they are enshrouded in.

  38. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Kryztian For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (28th December 2021), BoR (29th December 2021), Brigantia (28th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), gord (28th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (29th December 2021), mojo (28th December 2021), Reinhard (29th December 2021)

  39. Link to Post #20
    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th May 2019
    Location
    Near Chizzit Land
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    25,348
    Thanked 12,979 times in 1,342 posts

    Default Re: The Oera Linda manuscript

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Without going into any depth as I've covered it before, I had a deep dive into Fomenko's work last summer with a friend. We double-checked his facts as much as we could and corroborated much of it,
    That's great! You might want to tell us about that on this thread:
    What is Clif High smoking? (Anatoly Fomenko's theory of the "New Chronology")

    I listened to Jan Ott's interview with Catherine Fitts and when he mentioned this intersection between ancient Greece and Magna Frisia I instantly thought of Formenko and his very different paradigm of human history and wondered if that was behind Ott's theories. Either way, this shouldn't mar our appreciation of these ancient texts and authors. Whether or not you think the play Hamlet was written by a man of humble beginnings from Stratford on Avon or by the Earl of Oxford, this does not diminish the power of Shakespeare's greatness. I think the same goes for the The Illiad and The Odyssey. Glad we all share an appreciation for the power of these works, something that comes through regardless of what ever mysteries they are enshrouded in.
    I have made a few posts there, though I can't quote my friend's research without her permission. She's raring to go for some road trips next year, who knows what we might unearth!

    Totally with you on the ancient texts, and Shakespeare; whoever it was who wrote them, the name on the cover or otherwise, there is much beautiful writing and wisdom in them that resonates down the centuries.

  40. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Brigantia For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (29th December 2021), BoR (29th December 2021), BushPilot (30th December 2021), gord (28th December 2021), Harmony (28th December 2021), Kryztian (28th December 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (29th December 2021), mojo (28th December 2021)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts