Boiling To Life! Vents Opening Around Yellowstone

[observer]

Posted by Hervé (here)
to see Herve's comment #40, click-on the forwarding icon.

Are you seriously making the claim that the North American Plate is stationary in the western region? Seriously?

Full-well being aware of the Snake River Plain?

"Current studies suggest that the Snake River Plain resulted from the passage of the North American Plate over a stationary mantle plume or “hotspot” that is currently located beneath Yellowstone National Park" - from here

Talk about a complete misunderstanding, the MT Data image was posted specifically to show there are other sources of evidence indicating a much wider field of magma, extending far into the heartland of Wyoming, than was previously understood. You, sir, picked the word "magma" apart, in an attempt to demonstrate your superior knowledge, when it was perfectly obvious of what I was speaking.

....And your continued use of this image is laughable:



The diagram is describing only what is occurring in the crust (lithosphere). It doesn't address any conditions deep in the Mantle, the way this diagram does:



....and the water indicated in the surface conditions of this diagram are describing the Pacific Ocean, unless you can show me a large body of water between Yellowstone and the Pacific ocean. The scale on that diagram is completely distorted.

It should be obvious, the Juan de Fuca/North American Subduction Zone is responsible for the hotspot that caused Yellowstone, and it should be obvious that hotspot has remained stationary while the North American plate has continuously moved westward over that stationary spot - just like are the conditions at all the other hotspots found around the world....

[KiwiElf]

Right now, I'd say the whole pacific plate is moving! Whatever was before, isn't now...

[Hervé]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by Hervé (here)
to see Herve's comment #40, click-on the forwarding icon.

Are you seriously making the claim that the North American Plate is stationary in the western region? Seriously?

Full-well being aware of the Snake River Plain?

"Current studies suggest that the Snake River Plain resulted from the passage of the North American Plate over a stationary mantle plume or “hotspot” that is currently located beneath Yellowstone National Park" - from here

That's an evidence of ONLY a RELATIVE motion between the two. Anything else is assumption/interpretation. It is in no way an evidence that a hot spot is not moving as well. Hence the endless debates:

That's not established at all and is the subject of endless debates:

Posted by Hervé (here)
[...]These are the current recognized hot spots/plumes world wide. What's known with certainty is the relative displacement between crust and plume. What's unknown is if the plumes are totally fixed as in the 19 degrees latitude thing or wandering as in the shift of the magnetic poles would indicate. To be resolved.[...]

The North American continent is moving "westward" only with respect to Europe and Africa when the latter are taken as the reference frame.

As at yet no one knows for certain if the North American continent is moving westward in an absolute manner: it could be pinned down to the mantle, in which case it would be Africa and Europe as well as Japan that are moving eastward and getting closer to the west coast of the North American continent when the latter is taken as the reference frame.

In any case, it is the Pacific Ocean that is shrinking and the Atlantic Ocean that's expanding.

Quasar calibrated GPS may answer that question as to which continent to pick as an "immobile" reference frame, if any, soon.

----------------------------------------------------

Talk about a complete misunderstanding, the MT Data image was posted specifically to show there are other sources of evidence indicating a much wider field of magma, extending far into the heartland of Wyoming, than was previously understood.

Re-read that article and realize it's talking about "hot rocks," NOT magma:

Past imaging efforts have used seismic waves to detect the border between molten and solid rock. These have indicated that the mantle plume originates somewhere deep under Idaho and slopes eastward as it rises to meet the surface under Wyoming.
The new picture roughly agrees with this, but suggests the area heated by the plume may be far more extensive than indicated by the seismic data. It relies on what is termed magneto-telluric (MT) readings, which register subtle changes in the Earth's conductivity and magnetic fields. These register differences in temperature and composition of the rock and fluids, as these change alter the conductivity of the crust.
[...]
The resulting picture suggests that the molten rock of the mantle plume seen in seismic images is only the core of a much larger volume of hot crust. Although this area isn't molten, the high temperatures allow water to pick up elevated levels of salt, which enables its detection through the MT monitoring equipment.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/...than-expected/

---------------------------------------------

You, sir, picked the word "magma" apart, in an attempt to demonstrate your superior knowledge, when it was perfectly obvious of what I was speaking.

That was to make other readers understand that it's not a lava lake that's sitting in that "known magma chamber": hot rocks melted at 8-15%

--------------------------------------------

....And your continued use of this image is laughable:



The diagram is describing only what is occurring in the crust (lithosphere). It doesn't address any conditions deep in the Mantle, the way this diagram does:

All right:

... still laughing?

How about this:

-----------------------------------------------

....and the water indicated in the surface conditions of this diagram are describing the Pacific Ocean, unless you can show me a large body of water between Yellowstone and the Pacific ocean. The scale on that diagram is completely distorted.

I don't see any legend there indicating that blue layer being water, much less the Pacific Ocean.

What I do see is a vertical scale and a horizontal scale given by the caldera diameter which topographical features are represented; but no Cascade Range relief being shown... so, maybe the scales aren't distorted that much?

It should be obvious,....

[observer]

Give it up Hervé, you're loosing points in this debate with each comment.

1. The only movement of the North American Plate in question, is that sharply focused area including the Juan de Fuca/North American Subduction Zone, out-to the Yellowstone Caldaria, including only the zone where the hotspot exists. Any other element of your talking-points is moot to the debate. Your suggestion to a "relative motion" in that specific area is, in effect, a stipulation to the motion, I'm emphasizing.

2. You still cannot get past the magma vs. hot rock issue, while from the start, debating the semantics of the words was your thing. I represented the MT Data diagram wholly to show the extent of the superheated area using alternate data. Berating that intent with a meaningless debate over the definition of words, appears to me, a sophomoric strategy.

3. And finely.... yes, I'm LMAO at the new diagrams you have produced. Neither of them extends the Asthenosphere beyond the Cascade range, even though, at the cut-off point of both diagrams, there's a clear indication of bright red activity to the East of where the diagram ends. Where-in the diagram I've republished (below) clearly indicates a much bigger picture of everything in the specific zone in question.

BTW: If you look at the depiction of the Pacific Ocean in your final diagram (the pie-shaped one), it appears exactly as the depiction of what I'm calling the Pacific Ocean in the out of scale diagram that you produced earlier - (republished below) Your explanation of scale shows no understanding of a schematic diagram.

[Calz]

Not a popularity contest.

I deeply appreciate both of your contributions.


We ... the majority of members ... are trying to figure it out and both of you make tremendous contributions in that regard.

[Hervé]

...

R.I.P.


A magma chamber with enough material to fill the Grand Canyon 14 times over has been found beneath the Yellowstone supervolcano, researchers say. The finding yields insights into the "plumbing" system feeding the giant caldera.

(Photo : Hsin-Hua Huang | University of Utah)

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48...stone-park.htm

Posted by Hervé (here)

Posted by observer (here)
[...]
....and the water indicated in the surface conditions of this diagram are describing the Pacific Ocean, unless you can show me a large body of water between Yellowstone and the Pacific ocean. The scale on that diagram is completely distorted.

I don't see any legend there indicating that blue layer being water, much less the Pacific Ocean.

What I do see is a vertical scale and a horizontal scale given by the caldera diameter which topographical features are represented; but no Cascade Range relief being shown... so, maybe the scales aren't distorted that much?

It should be obvious,....

[observer]

^^^^

Not so fast, Herve'....

Go to this link, read the abstract, then study and read the description accompanying Figure 1.

Then scroll-dawn to page 8 and study figure 4, and read the description.

If you have the time read the entire PDF, you might learn something.

With regard to the improved diagram you've provided from Tech Times, all you've proven is that the diagram is only a partial representation (a segment so-to-speak) of a much larger geological system.

The data provided on the Science Direct PDF covers a much larger geological area, and should lead to a better understanding of the concept I've been attempting to deliver....

Most of the information contained in the Science Direct PDF, contradicts much of what you've said throughout this debate.

Note: for those interested members who are unfamiliar with the terminology found in the PDF, Ma = Million Years in geology-speak.

[observer]

I've been aware there is more to the Yellowstone Plume Head controversy for some period of time. I recall reading an article more than a year ago describing how the hotspot causing the Yellowstone Caldera has its origins deep within the mantle, and how it's all integrated with the Costal Subduction Zone. Geological Models have been pointing to the "Yellowstone Hotspot Track", a footprint of evidence dating-back more than 16 million years, and beginning just East of the Cascade Range; all undisputable evidence that there is a much larger picture involved, as opposed to isolated studies of thumbnail segments to this geological system.

Here's another link that's easier to understand, which duplicates the data in the link given in comment #47:
https://seismo.berkeley.edu/annual_r...7/node154.html

.... and another on the same topic:
http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/40/5/479.full

So, to recapitulate what I've been attempting to present, there's not much argument regarding any sort of "debate among geologists" when it comes to a thorough study of the data....

[TeXaR]

Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion just as MorningSong does. Why did you unsubscribe? Your information is so valuable. And not only the information you give on this subject, but on many other subjects.

It's important what you actually stated in your reply #10 and where this whole debate started.

I've said for a long time, if Yellowstone were going to erupt, as that eruption has been predicted from the geologic record of frequency, it would have to happen at a location East of the current caldera.

It sounds logic to me : The plate is moving westwards, so the Hot Spot is moving to the East, as the crust moves over the Hot Spot....

Can't you come back, observer?

[PathWalker]

Posted by TeXaR (here)
Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion just as MorningSong does. Why did you unsubscribe?
Can't you come back, observer?

Unsubscribed means banned by the moderators.
Usually the moderators records this in the RECORD of MODERATOR ACTIONS thread.
I did not notice any guidelines breach here. But we do not have the full picture.
This banning is most unusual and hope Bill will post a comment on this soon.

Thanks
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Note from Bill: Thanks: you're ahead of us here! I'll make a 'formal' post in just a moment. Yes, there was a bigger picture. Please give me a few minutes and I'll say just a little more.

Update: now posted here.

[TeXaR]

Posted by PathWalker (here)

Posted by TeXaR (here)
Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion just as MorningSong does. Why did you unsubscribe?
Can't you come back, observer?

Unsubscribed means banned by the moderators.
Usually the moderators records this in the RECORD of MODERATOR ACTIONS thread.
I did not notice any guidelines breach here. But we do not have the full picture.
This banning is most unusual and hope Bill will post a comment on this soon.

Thanks
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Note from Bill: Thanks: you're ahead of us here! I'll make a 'formal' post in just a moment. Yes, there was a bigger picture. Please give me a few minutes and I'll say just a little more.

Update: now posted here.

As Hervé was participating on this thread as member and not as a moderator, I wonder if Bill is backing the right one here.
Frustrating or provoking someone to eventually get a hostile reaction can be a cunning art ....

From Bill: Yes, a cunning art it is. It depends who was doing the provoking! Hervé is a professionally qualified geophysicist, and I'm convinced observer had misunderstandings that he wasn't able to get past. At that point, the history of observer's earlier many personal frustrations kicked in.

UPDATE from TeXaR

Here happened the same, killing the thread this time.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post199139

[Hervé]

Posted by TeXaR (here)
[...]
It sounds logic to me : The plate is moving westwards, so the Hot Spot is moving to the East, as the crust moves over the Hot Spot....
[...]

The past relative motion between the two objects was never in dispute... my point, that seem to have never gotten across, is that there is no new evidence for a "new eastward migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the crust.

If you take a good look at your own statement, it implies both hot spot/plume are moving in opposite directions... that would make for a fast travel speed of the hot spot across the North American continent.

An analogy would be like a passenger inside a train... the earth is rotating, the train is either stopped or moving and the passenger may be seated or walking inside that train. It all boils down to which frame of reference one arbitrarily pins down as "fixed": the walking passenger? The train's frame? Or the earth?

Then, what if that passenger decides to walk from one side of the train to the other? Or, instead of walking toward the front of the train changes course and walks toward the back?... all the while the train leaves the station...

All, we have from the data is: " no new migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the ground surface.

... that's a seated passenger taken as the reference system, whether the train is moving or not

[seeker/reader]

Hotspots are stationary and are sourced deep within the mantle. They are not produced by a subducting slab causing vulcanism. The geochemistry of magmas produced via subduction is different than those produced from mantle plumes, which indicates they have a different source.

[TeXaR]

Posted by Hervé (here)

Posted by TeXaR (here)
[...]
It sounds logic to me : The plate is moving westwards, so the Hot Spot is moving to the East, as the crust moves over the Hot Spot....
[...]

The past relative motion between the two objects was never in dispute... my point, that seem to have never gotten across, is that there is no new evidence for a "new eastward migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the crust.

If you take a good look at your own statement, it implies both hot spot/plume are moving in opposite directions... that would make for a fast travel speed of the hot spot across the North American continent.

An analogy would be like a passenger inside a train... the earth is rotating, the train is either stopped or moving and the passenger may be seated or walking inside that train. It all boils down to which frame of reference one arbitrarily pins down as "fixed": the walking passenger? The train's frame? Or the earth?

Then, what if that passenger decides to walk from one side of the train to the other? Or, instead of walking toward the front of the train changes course and walks toward the back?... all the while the train leaves the station...

All, we have from the data is: " no new migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the ground surface.

... that's a seated passenger taken as the reference system, whether the train is moving or not

Since I ended the sentence with "as the crust moves over the Hot Spot...", I pointed out that the inner Hot Spot (most likely) stays in place (indeed, seeker/reader). It just shows up as an eruption on the surface in another (more eastward) location, as the crust moves westwards.
It has to make a new 'exit' to release the power and will appear on an other location than the former eruption.

Unfortunately I can't copy and paste a pdf , but this link will lead you to an explanation of what I'm trying to say and what, I'm sure, observer wanted to say.
But of course, you as a professionally qualified geophysicist, will know this. Then why all this 'hairsplitting'?

https://books.google.nl/books?id=6Ql...page&q&f=false

Excuse me for my clumsy English. I'm not a native speaker and I realize very well that I'm not a match for you, but an easy target so to say

[Paul]

As announced here, we closed the account of TeXaR.

[justntime2learn]

Terrifying New Video Shows What Is Really Going on at Yellowstone
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 22:23



"Over that past month, our planet has been hit by large earthquake after large earthquake, and there are currently 40 volcanoes erupting and 44 on high alert. And now for the past week, there has been a dramatic spike in global seismic activity that is unlike anything we have seen in years, making what is going on incredibly alarming!

I want to share with you some footage recorded on Thursday night from Yellowstone. Something strange you will notice is that it appears to be a bright day even though it is in the middle of the night, you will be able to see a plethora of geysers steaming violently, and Old faithful just keeps going over and over again."

http://beforeitsnews.com/blogging-ci...e-2535799.html

[onawah]

More fear porn? That is a known disinfo source.

[Hervé]

Posted by justntime2learn (here)
Terrifying New Video Shows What Is Really Going on at Yellowstone
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 22:23

[...]

Hi there,

Had you followed your own thread, you might have noticed said video was already posted and discussed starting from here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1061697

[justntime2learn]

Posted by onawah (here)
More fear porn? That is a known disinfo source.

I suppose I relied on this and I am horribly sorry.

I'm learning as fast as I can!

Right after I posted on Cidersomerset's thread that I would like to share an email chain between my state representative Sherrie Sprenger and I (about aliens) there was no response by anyone

My google account was hacked on the 14th of this month and I still cannot regain access to it.

Maybe I'm not justntime2learn ...

gittarpikk
3rd June 2013, 11:46
Missed on...I'm sure there are others.
http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/
http://beforeitsnews.com
http://fourwinds10.com
http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com
http://kauilapele.wordpress.com/

[onawah]

Just keep trying, justintime2learn.
There's still time!
There's a lot of disinfo out there, and it may take a few years to develop the discernment you need to recognize it by the smell, but it does happen.
It's a process.