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Thread: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)

    Alice Bailey was temporarily interested in the "Back to Blavatsky" movement, but did not know much about it, nevertheless harped on her as an authority, quoting many passages which are found not to be there or do not support her point.

    The recurring theme seems to be how to bring the West to Raja Yoga. "Any change for convenience results in disaster". The intent is unchanged, traditional methods, not an astral display of masters like Bailey's "Occult Hierarchy", or whatever innovation may come to someone's mind. It is really a time of "they can come to us", instead of a mass proselytization.
    I agree that AB did do quite a disservice to Theosophy however it needs to be pointed out that she frequently stated throughout her writings that the Masters were not to be found on the astral plane and that in the New Age, that method wouldn't work and it required the student to adopt a new approach based on discipline, meditation etc. So I wouldn't think that the notion of an astral occult hierarchy best describes her mission as she saw it even if it ended up that way.

    The paradox of course was that she went and formulated a Christian occult hierarchy with a Christian emotional emphasis and as to what degree she was influenced against her better judgement, if at all, is difficult to determine.

    Her work however is something of a complete enigma.

    First, there is the voluminous writings which she states were channelled.

    Second, that they were channelled by a Tibetan Master by the name of Djwal Khul who apparently told her that he presided over a large group of lamas in a lamasery. AB states that she first met Djwal Khul in person in California in 1919.

    Thirdly, although the movement away from a classical approach to the Secret Doctrine had already begun, her work may well have been somewhat hijacked and compromised by individuals like Foster Bailey and others making the end product even more remotely apart.
    Last edited by Peter UK; 9th November 2019 at 20:48.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Quote Posted by Peter UK (here)
    it needs to be pointed out that she frequently stated throughout her writings that the Masters were not to be found on the astral plane and that in the New Age, that method wouldn't work and it required the student to adopt a new approach based on discipline, meditation etc. So I wouldn't think that the notion of an astral occult hierarchy best describes her mission as she saw it even if it ended up that way.

    The paradox of course was that she went and formulated a Christian occult hierarchy with a Christian emotional emphasis and as to what degree she was influenced against her better judgement, if at all, is difficult to determine.

    Her work however is something of a complete enigma.
    Yes, you are right. She did say "the mental plane, on which the Masters can be found".

    Her system of planes is that of Ledbeater and so we would question if she has any idea what the "mental plane" is.

    She is convoluted as she is pretty close to the standard of "85% truth, 15% disinformation".

    Saying that the "masters' display" is on the astral plane did not originate from me. I have seen it a few times. Although perhaps Alice said "mental plane", the standard "attachment" of other cults like Ballard and the Prophets seem very astral or the beliefs are maintained by persons who claim to be having the astral experiences with these same masters.

    Using poor K. H. as an example, we found as early as 1885 or so a lady in Australia wrote in that he was in her dreams and she wanted to know if it was really him visiting. He basically told her to figure it out.

    And so by using him as any kind of thoughtform or devotional model, it does create an astral image. And that can be passed along to the next person. And it can keep going and be given a life and personality of its own. This is very much like what HPB said about ghosts; no soul is there, it is just memory, and if you interact with them, they will be glad to prolong their existence with you.

    I do not recall Alice ever saying she physically met Djwhal Kul. This figure is definitely not the same as the Theosophical Djwhal Kul, who was a tall Hindu. All that KH said was "he is no longer my chela", there was no grand pronouncement that he has become a fifth degree asekha adept with his own ashram or anything of the sort.

    Foster was all about "Restoration of the Mysteries", i. e. he was going to reproduce the Temple of Eleusis in modern Masonry. Ledbeater and Besant self-titled themselves "Mahatmas"; Roerich declared himself a Bodhisattva or Tulku or something like that. In their own minds, these people put themselves in pretty high places. That in itself tells us something.

    No I do not think Alice, personally, was running a scheme, it seems likely that she really did psychically contact someone, who used a convincing disguise to do it. She had a Fundamentalist background and spent about two years in India as a nurse. Aside from that, it seems like she sat at home psychically channeling all the time. If I wondered who might have learned such psychic sensitivity, my first guess is Jesuit, if I wondered who would want to teach the return of Jesus as Pope, my next guess is Jesuit, if I listened to someone blame the Zionists over and over without mentioning the Jesuits, my third guess is Jesuit, if I look at New York and the fact of Alice being fond of the U. N. and Council on Foreign Relations, my fourth guess is Jesuit. And I think this would have made "how to control religion" Rockefeller giddy with delight.

    If I were to look for Master on the mental plane, the actual Tibetan teaching tells me this will not happen until I cross Kama Loka. This is not some mystery, it is completely defined in Yoga practice. First is Heaven of the Four Kings, then Indra Heaven of Thirty-three gods, then Tusita, then Yama or judge of the dead, and then planes which mean "Pleasure at will" and then another "Pleasure freely offered by others". The result of this is Pure Land or Akanistha or Seventh Heaven. It is only by being stabilized in Akanistha that one would "enter the mental plane". Or master astral projection and the various sleep and dream practices.

    If I look at Hell King Yama and how to defeat him such as in Vajrabhairava Tantra, I don't think I can do it. I think it would take a lot of dedication and work and training from someone who has done it. If we presume to be beyond this because "being spiritual" sounds nice, one is in for a really rude awakening.

    If I look at the next thing to Vajrabhairava, it is Parnasabari, who is a Pisaci or Ghoul. I personally have to stop and take this seriously and wonder what it means to "convert her to Dharma". Until I have the capability to convert Ghouls to Dharma at will, I won't even be knocking at the door of the fourth Kama Loka or Yama plane. Because this is a transmitted lineage from cultures that have relied on it for centuries, I find it more reliable than the declarations of pseudo-Theosophists.

    HPB's Stanzas of Dzyan lead me straight to the Ah-hi or Nagas which have a great deal of meaning in Yoga practice. Alice whipped out several more "Stanzas of Dzyan" which are completely different, like Rosicrucian Astrology, that lead nowhere. In my experience, her system is all about the system itself, a mix of the New Testament with Astrology and a sort of respectful nod to Buddhism, but nobody knew anything about it. It is all about Rays, the way she says they work. That is why I think the result of following her is mainly astral, because it is imaginary, in the sense of not attuned to nature. Buddhism means to quit letting the imagination deviate from actual nature. Any time we do, we are under Maya. It teaches the same Rays, but in the way it says they work, not hers.

    What am I going to find on the mental plane if I have no means of getting there and instead put time into admiring "The Mahachohan, the Lord of Civilization" in some made-up way, whereas the actual Mahachohan stated that western civilization is a failure. He must not have been the lord of very much other than a few disciples. KH said the chohans are as stern as death, and since they turn out to be the trance oracles of the Four Kings, I would not think my knowledge has outpaced theirs by studying something unrelated. I am humbled to find out what it really is.

    I have no idea if there is or ever was any western scripture that made the Elohim into a practical path. Maybe they do at Mt. Athos. If one can be found, it could be offered on a comparison basis to what Yoga says, but to a large degree, the way Alice expressed it as Rays has little to do with anything other than western astrology, which is again its own unique system, or relatively recent innovation compared to the lunar calendar and Indian astrology.

    Another aspect of this system is calling the astral "the plane of emotion" which is itself an illusion and something that should be killed. It's very dry that way. The actual teaching is pro-emotional and is simply the method of eliminating disturbing emotions. In fact we are more prone to stop discursive thought, or stop thought entirely, and just feel. You are better off to have real experiences that cause disturbing emotions, so you can figure out how to control it, than by an artificial extermination of it. Bailey seems unusually hollow or like a choke when brought to terms with actual life. The center that I attended had its charter revoked or something to that effect because it was stagnant. It lacked a realistic Nirmana interface with the earth plane; was more like a retirement center for "painting with Bob Ross" except it was with the hierarchy. Just doodles.

    So then whatever was behind all that channeling had a pretty good idea about how to numb you and make you dream uselessly.
    Last edited by shaberon; 10th November 2019 at 00:25.

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