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Thread: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Helena Blavatsky was dodgy. I mean, just look at her.

    Definitely a lot of disinfo, and judging by her books, she came from a pretty dark place. Lots of darkside/left-hand stuff in her books. But a lot of truth too. Not that different from these days.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Can you give some examples--especially if there are definitely a lot of them?

    Most of what I have seen elsewhere online was inaccurate. But most of what I see anywhere about anything is inaccurate. And what I wind up doing, is sculpting out whatever doesn't belong.

    For instance, people want to expose the Illuminati; its shutdown is the basis of Conspiracy Theory.

    Adam Weishaupt was educated by Jesuits, so he knew their methods and reached a point where he wanted to use those same methods against them. So he started a secret society; Thomas Jefferson said that, in America, he would not have needed any secrecy, but in Europe the authorities were really strict. He wanted to start a rationalist (philosophical) group to: prevent the church from dominating philosophy and science; to reduce the corruption in government; and to give women education and equal rights. He did recruit from the wealthy and the Masons, and while it grew in numbers, it never gained much influence. It fell apart from within, as a lot of those people were seeking a mystical experience, rather than philosophy. And of course the authorities dispelled it, being themselves unquestionable.

    The books that were soon written, by a Jesuit and a person who did not understand German, saw, in the questioning of authority, a call for the destruction of society. They tried to place former members of Illuminati as responsible for the French Revolution. Neither viewpoint was realistic, but was recycled by Nesta Webster, and many others, until becoming a standard rallying cry today. Ironically then, to oppose the Illuminati, would mean the church should tell us what to think, the state should tell us how to live, and women are property.

    Almost any swami will tell you that yoga meditation was around long before scriptures and monastic orders. That's basically what Theosophy presented to the world, along with the claim that it had also been done in many cultures, but that most religions distort it and bury it in superstition.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Quote Posted by Enola (here)
    Helena Blavatsky was dodgy. I mean, just look at her.

    Definitely a lot of disinfo, and judging by her books, she came from a pretty dark place. Lots of darkside/left-hand stuff in her books. But a lot of truth too. Not that different from these days.

    Uh, look at her how? What specifically are you seeing?

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Archons

    It's an old gnostic concept that has caught on in modern vocabulary. Across many sects, it fairly clearly states the creator, the god of Israel, is imperfect and low ordered. The creator and its associates cannot affect the world directly; but they can direct people mentally, and they feed on things like fear, conflict, and worship. This increases their power.

    Orthodox scriptures confuse people by mixing the chief Archon Ialdabaoth with the true spirit.

    Archons cannot war with Aeons or hurt them in any way. They cloud the mind, binding it to a false self in a dimly lit maze. The liberating force from the Archons is the Serpent. Here we find a very common factor to widespread traditions such as the Mayans and Druids, Egyptians, Nagas of India, Pythons, and so forth. The Serpent was held as Wisdom until people were told it was a dangerous cult that had to be crushed.

    Nothing in Genesis refers to the Serpent as the devil or Satan, the concept of the devil was schemed in later.

    These schemers are the vassals of Ialdabaoth and the Archons, workers in shadow. While they would typically lose in open debate, they certainly excelled at central authority and violence stamping out "heresies". But this is what the people who made the term "Archons" aimed it at: the Serpent-suppressing cult of Yahweh. It is the same whether in Jewish times or the church. Both traditions contained Serpent Initiates as well as ministers of the Archonic Lawgiver.

    If the Ialdabaoth cannot win you by announcing its superiority, it will then try to show you that the gnostic serpent system is the domain of the Archons. It is a hive mind of drones. Should you try to escape, it will try to discredit and weaken the way. So it spawns lots of imitation cults and artificial movements.

    Right now it's trying to assimilate the Yezidi under India's Murrugan.

    However, if one can avoid their traps and pitfalls, a human being is much more powerful than they are: as per the Serpent.

    Codex Nazareus was one thing that slipped through their fingers, and became available in English in 2011.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Goddess

    Along with spiritual sciences, out went most instances of female divinity. It can be broadly shown that: no male-originated religion has a chronicle from the life of its founder, giving specific dates for things he said and did, so their sources are always debatable. When you go from pre-written-history into art and architecture, along with serpents, there are huge amounts of women and goddesses that seem to have been swept under the rug and mortified.

    At this time, there does not quite seem to be enough to say, it was a matriarchal society and everything was great until men started to dominate.

    However, I think there is plenty to question exclusive patriarchy or anything male-biased. If you look at the Iroquois Confederation, which the Indians said brought them Great Peace, the women own the land. They didn't dictate or dominate society, but they owned and managed all the land.

    Esoterically, the women are the land; or, Ruth = Land of Ruth. Of course, this is simply the material form of primordial goddesses. Put her together with the serpent and you have the whole allegory of the fall, which is simply the early days of spirit coming down to earth. Starting from an androgynous, ethereal person, who, by mind magic, "descends" into a physical person that has different sexes. Now, at this point, one is a fallen angel in a dark hell, as compared to the "unborn" state. It is the Goddess and Serpent that bring one to know the tree of knowledge of good and evil--human experience--and the path beyond the Archons, into a condition where, roughly put, the "unborn spark" is rooted with the "knower of good and evil".

    There starts to be a creeping sensation about how ascetic monastic communities could have anything to do with the types of cults that celebrated public orgies, and be part of the same lineage or culture. It's a personal choice; it's your karma. I would tend to agree that massively distributed guilt, fear, inhibition, punishment, and basically puritanical repression of sex is extraordinarily harmful. Essentially there is a broad set of rules for householders and worldly people, emphasizing individual freedom, and a different category for monastics. Everyone should have a choice of how they want to live, without coercion. It may be true that a monastic lifestyle provides for greater mental and spiritual concentration; it might not be; but in no way should we try to scare anyone for not voluntarily choosing that.

    Anybody who controls your sex life controls you; and if this can be done at a distance by shame or anything of that ilk, we would tend to say this flows from the Archons, and should be cleansed, which the Goddess does. At a very basic level, showing Ishtar as the goddess of love and war, men, especially after battle, were thought to be under a curse of violence; some love from a priestess would make it go away. Same principle works in subtle ways as well.

    While I don't know if most of the world's ills stem from men wanting to capture and enslave her, it seems to play a significant role in recorded history.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    why not stop philosphying what some one else said or wrote and live whats in your heart.... stopp reading and talking...start doing...
    OBADIAH 1:21
    The Good things in life

    "...where ever you go, there you are..."

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Agreed.

    On a personal level, it will be just a few more weeks before moving to a new house, with people, at which point I might vanish from the internet completely. In the meantime, since there are tons of books from history, and a gazillion websites of today, I just thought I'd try participating. But is something wrong with reading? Am I allowed to feel in my heart that Goddess and women's leadership might well provide a better system than the masculine, materialistic one there is today?

    So yes, I agree that actions of the heart are the most important thing. Not sure why that would amount to the end of reading and writing though.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Sometimes you accidentally discover another bead to add to the jewel strand, such as this by Avalon member WhiteLove:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...23#post1076223

    I thought it was essentially the same precept--but I won't suggest everyone pursue a near death experience to do it that way.

    Also, I can't suggest anyone form a secret society for the violent overthrow of the government, because it's against the law; however, you can make them all day long, for any other reason--such as the strengthening of the government.

    One such secret society is the Council for National Policy, somewhat derived from the John Birch Society. It's not the Center for National Policy, and its publication is the Policy Counsel. As Wade Frazier mentioned in his Healed Planet thread here, some of the most powerfully dangerous people are the Armageddonists. And this is what the CNP consists of. The backbone of their beliefs include such things as gay people are vile, and the Illuminati are conspiring to form a New World Order; they want a strong national defense and to implement Judeo-Christian values, some of them literally to the extent of the Old Testament: the stoning of adulterers, idolaters, and incorrigible children. A "leaked" roster from 2014 included such members as the owner of L. L. Bean, and the managing director of Bain Capital, which, if you looked into Mitt Romney, you found this to be a questionable venture. They foment the "patriot" movement as well. Judeo-Christian is an oxymoron, strong national defense is doublespeak for sending the military all over the world.

    This is not a guy posting a few paragraphs in a forum. This is a wealthy think tank that operates PACs and virtually dictates the life of the country. And once again illustrates why I created this thread: in modern times, if you question the establishment, most likely you will wander straight into their "Illuminati honeypot". Those kind of websites necessarily have some valid information, but they are all smeared with fables slung by the CNP and John Birch (among others). You will get it on a "patriot" basis, or on an "expose the government" basis.

    One day at work, and this was twenty-five years ago, out of the blue, one of the guys said to me, "The Anti-christ's name is Lord Maitreya". For anyone who has an interest in Buddhism, this is the verbal equivalent of a gunshot to the head. But I went about my business without saying anything, just wondering why it would be important to fundamentalist Christians to say something like that. I could understand them saying "If you follow Buddha instead of Christ, you're going to hell"--but Anti-christ Maitreya is a lot more specific than that.

    Not long after that, I got into Alice Bailey, because it had the opposite message: Maitreya is Christ. I got into it specifically because it injected foreign elements into Christianity, and I thought it would help to show people like that guy, that his Anti-christ Maitreya was untrue. I did this for a long time; I literally had a box of pamphlets from Lucis Trust that I mailed to members of Congress. I was probably into it for about ten years before the veneer started wearing off. And then it was probably still a few years after that before I realized that guy at work must have been talking about AB. At that time, I guess I had found the same Anti-Masonic platform that he had. It was semi-useful to help start overcoming my disillusionment, but I couldn't swallow it whole--fortunately that one was pretty simple to research. Really...the Masons built all the cathedrals...while they were servants of the devil...I laugh milk out my nose thinking about some of that stuff.

    So, as it turns out, Alice Bailey is not Illuminati and she's not Theosophy. There is a very narrow space between the establishment and the establishment's co-opted countermovement. The fundamentalists and Armageddonists are probably never going to come out of it. If you question them via AB, that's one of their projects; if you slam AB as Illuminati, that's one of their projects too. Chances are, most people agree with them outright, or avoid the whole thing. There's not a lot left to provide a clear perspective, because it lies in none of those categories.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Secrecy

    There is a grey area in this thesis, which, I don't think undermines it, but instead, illustrates the entanglement even more. The "official story" is that St. Germain died in 1784, but there's no body, nor was there a funeral which would have been customary for someone of that stature. I don't know if it's all that important either way; but did anything reliably say that he lived on?

    Isabelle Cooper-Oakley quoted from a "rare book" which said so, about his further visits to Countess Adhemar. The rare book, however, Souvenirs de Marie Antoinette, was produced by a guy called Etienne Leon Lamoche-Langon, somewhere within the series of about thirty similar pieces of historical fiction he concocted; it amounts to forgery because they were published showing Countess Adhemar as the author. This copy of the "Souvenirs" was in the library of Madame Fadeyev, HPB's aunt.

    However, HPB was friends with the Adhemars of her time, and the family claims to have their own personal memoirs of St. Germain. No one else knows what they say, and if they keep them privately, that's their right.

    The library which she grew up with, was that of her great-grandfather, Prince Pavel Dolgoruki, who was a member of a Rite of Strict Observance. Among its hundreds of magical tomes, it contained an autographed gift from St. Germain: a map predicting future boundaries after the French Revolution.

    Does this mean he had future knowledge of great crimes, or that he was behind it all?

    His main...business...if he had been successful at anything, would have been the manufacture of dyes. At the time, they mostly used indigo and cochineal (same stuff that vegetarians still get tricked into drinking). He had a way to make better, longer-lasting colors out of cheap ingredients like rapeseed oil. His vision was that of mass employment. That's the kind of stuff he put time and effort into.

    The thing you mostly had to do in secret in those days was question authority. Since he was accepted just about everywhere he went, which was everywhere, he was probably one of the few persons who got input from every side of the issue. The problem then, much as now, is how can you reduce tyranny without resorting to violence? And while philosophical groups were trying to process this, vested interests came along to spark the powder-keg. I think the "map" represents his knowledge of someone else's plot, which he was unable to ward off.

    The interest of the Eastern order towards Western social and political affairs is approximately zero. They are unable to suggest harming anyone, and also, they are unable to control your mind and will. What makes them so aloof, where came the need for their secrecy and mystery?

    Lore states that at the dawn of humanity, there originally were teachers directly mind-born from spirit. Early mankind was quite spiritual, and picked up on it very well, gaining the ability to produce their own teachers. In due time, as the race became more material, they also formed the Brotherhood of Shadow. Post-Atlantis, the things we would generally recognize (Egyptians, Mayans, etc.) still had a fairly open-door policy. Come in, we'll show you what we know. As usual, people messed that up and changed it too, which is why it got sealed behind Mysteries and Initiations. You had to prove your living ethics for several years in order to earn the greater knowledge. The "un-initiated" priests led a parallel life based on formal rituals and misunderstood words. This system ran for centuries, until Alexandria was destroyed, at which point the "sealed" knowledge in all the Western areas was pulled and stashed in the fastnesses of Central Asia and Tibet.

    Of course, they hauled it out of Tibet prior to the Chinese takeover. Even ordinary peasants are aware of that.

    We should study and contemplate all the accurate intellectual knowledge we can. But that cannot be all, or else we become an Adept of Shadow. It is very hard for most people to lead a disciplined, ethical existence and to give much of themselves to relieve the suffering of smaller, weaker people whom they may not even like. And it must be done for its own sake, instead of reward, reputation, or a feeling of spiritual status.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Interesting. I thought St. Germain was some kind of skilled alchemist. The first thing I heard about him was that he was a very popular guest among the nobility of Europe who seemed to never age and have access to an inexhaustible fortune.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Yes, he also had abilities to fuse diamonds, remove flaws, and improve the color of stones--things we can do today by radiation. He may have also been able to transmute metal to gold. However, he did not sit around cranking out jewels to increase his personal wealth; most were given as gifts. He sold a few, but it seems most of his support came from the last of the Florentine Medicis--who were the ardent rivals of Venice. But as much as he did "wonders", he also did practical things, which is what he wanted to share broadly--he quite possibly had a hand in the development of the steam engine.

    Lots of unknowns to this historical figure; right now, there are thousands of people praying to his "new age avatar", and on the other side, the camp that either claims that's an evil spirit, or that he incited the revolutions. Most people loved him at the time, except a few thought he was a spy, which wasn't proven, and the jealous such as the Duc de Choiseul.

    It's tough and confusing to filter through all those camps of thought. In the U. S., at first, except for slavery which was kind of taboo, most viewpoints were openly and energetically debated. Eventually, that died down; and there wasn't really an underground, investigating secret actions of the government, until:

    Ezra Pound

    This guy was a fascist, anti-capitalist and anti-Jew. While in Europe, he developed some suspicions, and then when back in the states, stuffed in a mental ward because they couldn't prove treason, he was able to persuade Eustace Mullins to research his ideas. Mullins then spent a lot of time in the basement of the Library of Congress going through massive, dry business records that no one ever reads. And doing this, led to the discoveries about our central bank--how it was done, and who was involved. Rejected by all New York publishers, it came out in the 1950s as a small production entitled "Mullins on the Federal Reserve". We know it today as "Secrets of the Federal Reserve". I consider this as a core foundation, a legitimate, highly influential piece of work, telling us things we otherwise had no way of knowing.

    A little further down the road, Mullins was convinced that Satan was doing it all.

    In 1966, Carroll Quigley released Tragedy and Hope, largely fingering the Round Table. He was a professor at Georgetown, well known as a Jesuit bastion, and he doesn't particularly mention them. He said he got inside the "Round Table" groups, that they sometimes cooperate with Communists, and he largely agrees with them, except for the secrecy. This would be supportive of an "inclusive" style of one world government.

    The John Birch Society got up and running in the same time frame, with a different platform: everybody against the Communists. They accepted Masons, Jews, non-whites, and Mormons for example. "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" looked favorably at Quigley's book and also found a monolithic "single conspiracy", although Quigley denies that bankers function as a single bloc.

    Lyndon Larouche was the next big one. He was originally Marxist yet anti-British and promoted the arms race. Seen also as fascistic, anti-Jewish, perhaps anti-gay and extremely conspiracist. So frantic, he ran a 24/7 call center, by having his members max out their credit cards, which was never repaid. That's pretty serious in "keeping up with the news" before internet. A little further along, he also decided Satan was doing it all.

    John Coleman's "intelligence contacts" seem to have been a pile of Larouche magazines "Executive Intelligence Review". This seems about the turning point (1990s) to get what we have today: a lot of conspiracy research is usually just a rehashing of someone else's work. The only differences seem to be what groups are slated for inclusion/exclusion, and if Satan and his minions are operating the stuff you don't like. The extremist presentation of these views, and the grand pronouncements without much evidence, is a large part of why the mainstream will never listen to it.

    So the Federal Reserve and Bank of International Settlements were exposed sixty years ago; nevertheless, the counterculture founded around this exposure has really done nothing, while it actually is going to get some competition from the ascendancy of the East.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    British Fascists

    They came in around the 1920s, and based a lot of their information from John Robison "Proofs of a Conspiracy". It's from around 1797, and he did ask some of the same things as me: like, what kind of secondary plot overthrew Robespierre and the Jacobins? And the discovery of Oxygen had made him afraid of materialistic science.

    His inspiration came after he had spent many years with a painful spasm under his testicles. The subsequent use of opium made him melancholy, confused, and paranoid. He changed from a guy with an illustrious scientific career into an isolated person who put out a book his colleagues found surprising and embarassing. This was because he had answered the questions by filling in "Illuminati".

    His book sold well, but was not as influential in Britain as on the continent. Britain had more cause for concern with Thomas Paine's "Rights of Man" which had sold more copies than the total estimated number of book readers. It led to mutinies and riots all the time; so they weren't too particularly interested in stories of a disbanded Bavarian Lodge.

    It caught on in America briefly, and because Hamilton and the Federalists were worried about the concept, it was used as a charge against Thomas Jefferson, who had sympathized with them. He had stated that if we lost our liberty, it would be due to banks and Jesuits. Marquis de Lafayette had also warned us about the Jesuits, "who were responsible for most of the wars in Europe". Nothing ever came from such charges, and the idea of Illuminati faded out. Whatever Robison took so literally as "Proof" was mostly speculation, conjecture, or anything besides substantial evidence.

    Until Nesta Webster picked it up and ran with it. She used the whole Illuminati theory as only a shell for the real power which she said was Jews. She proved this with material foisted from the Taxil Hoax; which Taxil himself publicly confessed to. This chiefly appears as Protocols of the Elders of Zion along with quotes from Albert Pike and a connection from him to Giuseppe Mazzini. She was a Fundamentalist who believed everything not of Trinitarian Christianity was Satan taking over the world. In this way she condemned Jews. She did not like non-English people. She also opposed socialism by joining the British Fascists. Her mono-vision of civilization is what's projected into this melange of uptight paranoia and accepted hoaxery.

    Edith Starr Miller, Lady Queenborough almost immediately rehashed Webster's work. Her husband, Lord Queenborough was Fascist, and she also associated with the President of British Fascists. Same type of Fundamentalist stances: anti-Jew, anti-Mason, anti-Mormon. She was very obscure compared to Webster, but there's another Fundamentalist Fascist weaving the same thread.

    As much as crime-sniffing on the national and international level does intrigue me...so far most of the anti-Illuminati rhetoric is based in Fascism. Robison may have been independent, but considering the Jesuit Abbe' Barruel, that's 3/4 of the core books from a fascist bent--aside from their inaccuracies.

    Barruel has a large amount of accurate information, his Memoirs have been trotted out and a few of the underlying issues mentioned.
    Last edited by shaberon; 29th September 2018 at 02:14.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    hi Shaberon
    I read your very erudite posts with interest, though most of it would require a lot of time to thoroughly digest and look into and I am skimming at the moment. Going back to some of your earlier posts you talk about HPB and St. Germain being members of the Tibetan/ Himalayan lodge. Can you point me to more information about this lodge, and also any credible info on the mysterious St Germain? Many thanks for your extensive insights to date.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Hi Violet3, thanks. It is a lot of stuff to think about, but when I look at most of the explanations that go around, I wind up finding something's wrong with them, or something is missing, and it sort of wrinkled me so I wanted to iron it out. For example, I never paid any attention to this Edith Starr Miller until a few days ago. An article about her being assassinated for "exposing" the truth. Now, we can't quite know how she died, but it was about a year after leaving her husband for cruelty. She exposed nothing, just repeated Nesta Webster and the Taxil Hoax/Palladian Rite material. And, how could this be punishment for exposure--seeing as how Paillart Impremerie in France published it posthumously, after she died, for private circulation only?? "Sorry honey, I've got to kill you for this dossier, then I'm going to share it with my friends and we're going to laugh it up".

    Then around 2004 someone reprinted it as "Occult Theocracy" as a paperback. That's quite clever, get a new edition going round with that "assassination" idea, while most of the "Illuminati scare" could well be pushed by the same Rockefeller interests that it's supposed to be about. That being said, there are modern Rites that use Illuminati as part of the name, and there could be very many entire Masonic Lodges that are full of organized crime. Nevertheless, such a book would not even rate as "good misinformation" because its accuracy is only about 50%. But the typical person won't know that.

    Once you start dissecting that stuff, the problem seems to be not "all secret societies", but actually, "the establishment". Perhaps the Pilgrims Society is a particular secret society operated by the establishment of most of the regular businesses and educational institutions. I bet you can dig up 300 websites that will reveal "Masonic Illuminati Satanists" even though the Pilgrims Society is out there. But the typical person probably won't see it.

    Overall, it does seem to be the case that there is a more Jesuitical, Fascist, Fundamentalist faction and a more Jewish, Socialist, Collectivist faction that sit there and agree to play fight by sacrificing their own people, and it just as well plays out by a socially engineered Armageddon that's obviously right there in the standard scriptures and all the normal traditions.

    Concerning the Lodge of Mahatmas. There is very little we can say about it. Their minimal appearance from around 1875 was reluctant, but they decided to make some public appearances anyway. Not to huge crowds, but sometimes with about eight people. The trouble is, if they dealt with bigger crowds, massive amounts of people will swarm in with all their doubts, demanding proofs and so forth, which really fogs up the process--of sharpening your intuition.

    The Masters' only known writings, The Mahatma Letters, were never intended for publication, because they were written to a specific person at a given point in time on a particular tangent. Nevertheless, they wound up in a book, and most of the actual letters are in the British Museum. HPB's aunt N. Fadeyev received one, prior to the ones that are in the book--and it is in the same pen and the same handwriting as the ones that were sent years later to other people.

    Morya initiated Subba Rao into Gupta Vidya when he was thirteen I believe. Koot Hoomi was involved with the Tashi Lama at Shigatse, possibly as a master of ceremonies. They regularly roam all India out to Ceylon. I'd guess the Lodge has other hangouts from around Khotan out towards Siberia, and probably westwards towards the Caspian Sea. All the Masters of the Lodge probably doesn't add up to much more than twenty people of that caliber. Each has a family, and multiple disciples near and far. They're definitely not interested in spreading their pictures over the internet (the one that exists is a photo of a drawing). Those named are the only two Mahatmas that were involved in the "triple production" of The Secret Doctrine.

    Back around 1880, there was a lady in Australia who wrote to the TS, that she had a dream of being visited by Koot Hoomi, and she was asking the society if they would find out if it really was him. Master answered in about two sentences nicely telling her that he wasn't going to tell her...see if the dream happened again, and to form her own opinion.

    And what happened right after HPB died...C. W. Ledbeater put out "The Masters and the Path" sticking in a slew of new masters, and going into personal details about them and gracing it with his clairvoyance. That was the start of the "cult". Ledbeater was an Anglican Church pedophile, who later tried to promote one of his victims as Christ, the World Teacher. And from there on, I don't believe there was any authentic teaching from the Masters in the 20th century that was publicly released. At one point in time, I personally would have promoted the Alice Bailey and Guy Ballard sorts of revivals, but over time, my intuition started breaking the ice of it, and the more I really looked at things and asked questions that made me quite uncomfortable, my decision was to "stick with the original".

    So what I personally know about the Lodge aside from what is given in the original work as represented by the ULT is: I don't know. There is probably a farmer in Szechuan who could say "He went down this road last month". Doing science, differently than the way we know it; experiments with material as it relates to consciousness. Travel in the inner planes to the Vaikunthas (celestial planets). Herbal medicine and healing.

    HPB was extremely prolific and a very public figure. When she first took a ship to the U. S., she had a first-class ticket and very little money. While boarding, she found a woman with two small children on the dock who was obviously upset. After talking, it turned out the lady had bought a ticket that turned out to be scalped or fake or something, they weren't going to let her on board and she had nothing left and nowhere to go with her children. HPB gave her the first-class ticket and had to take the tramp quarters herself and came to the States with nothing.

    Aside from the ULT there are some good online collections of short stories, small articles and so forth from HPB, which include the tales of the Masters as well as stuff like the ticket story and small morsels of esoterics. It's a lot easier to read than her big books, although Voice of the Silence is a small classic translation, and the Key to Theosophy is kind of like an FAQ.

    http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html
    https://blavatskytheosophy.com/articles/
    http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/collectedwritings.htm

    St. Germain could probably be considered "Europe's Greatest Adept", which is not really a Master or Mahatma because he did not have any disciples under his wing. There are Adepts of lesser degree in almost every country, but you know what, that's one of the things that got me about AAB. Why was I thinking about what initiation I have, or other people have. I came to the conclusion that you really shouldn't do that at all, but she made a very large franchise about that kind of thing. St. Germain was a public figure; if any article tries to slag him as an Illuminati terrorist, or base a church on him and discuss his regular visitations, that wouldn't be accurate. I have no way of knowing if the private Adhemar papers in any way resemble the spurious published book that mentions him after 1784.

    Indian street jugglers can perform many of the "feats" such as placing a seed in water and producing a fully grown flower in ten minutes. But just because someone can prove a special ability such as that, does not mean they are necessarily a "wise soul". They might be a simple performer, and of course they could range from a con artist to a danger to society.

    Just to do some catching up, I checked out some of what Michael Aquino has to say. Apparently, his line of magic attempts to make "Michael Aquino" immortal. Well, the law of reincarnation can agree with the Bible in a certain way: "A man lives but once". After death, the personality of ourselves that answers to a name such as that, is supposed to expend a little dream energy and then it, too, dies off and fades away. The true "individual soul" that will move from body to body, is "ourself"--only to the extent that we were able to tap its influence while on earth and add something to it.

    What, exactly, that type of consciousness is--that happens to be the lifelong quest of Joan Jett.

    Michael Aquino is going to cross-grain Nature and live in his astral shell after death for a very long time as a sorcerer. He is very well known and will have absolutely no problem latching on to streams of energy flowing around the world. As long as people keep feeding him, he might be able to hold out through the end of the human race.

    But then he will lose his sense of feeling.

    Many centuries, perhaps millenia will go past until he goes deaf.

    The wheel will ever turn as he grasps for his personal immortality thing until he loses all of his astral senses. And so on with losing all the cores of conscious thought. After that, he will be left as basically an unconscious lump headed into a "heat death" until the whole solar system gets recycled. That is what he will experience. That is what a sorceror is. I won't guess at the number there are of those, but I would say, it's approximately, a lot of them.

    The only thing worse than that is "a corpse without soul" who does it in their physical body. Maybe this is what he plans. There are not very many of those.

    Every one of us has the full spectrum of choice from yoga to a normal material life to sorcery. The Path would be useless if we weren't faced with challenges and obstacles, pain, corruptive influences, and every chance to betray trust. Growing a strong heart is the first and foremost way to be. In the Masters' eyes, this is much more important than putting out so much information to make an "occultist mill". And this is the only way anyone could ever know them, because if people randomly came asking them "hey are you...", they would deny it. It leads to the true conscious immortality where there is not really death, i. e. continuity from body to body.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain



    There is the facade to approximately 500 caves in the Mogao complex at Dunhuang, China. This is where the northern and southern routes of the Silk Road join, or split, depending which way you're going. It was a very old Buddhist monastery; but around 1900, explorers opened a wall and found a trove of 60,000 manuscripts, not only Buddhist ones, but also Daoist, Zoroastrian, and Nestorian (Christian), that had been sealed nearly a thousand years ago, some of them already being centuries old at that time. The monastery had continued to function since then, so this was just some of the "extra stuff" squirreled away for future reference.

    The town exists by an oasis:



    Which sadly is drying out.

    That area is filled with dinosaur fossils, ruined towns, and dried lake beds. Vast amounts of subterranean water. So nothing constitutes "empirical proof" and likely never will, but I could easily see Mogao as an arm of the Trans-Himalayan Lodge, and one of those ruins could easily have been the mythical Shamballa, which was supposed to have been on an island in a lake.

    The literature removed from Mogao (and sold to collectors) represents a very old religious tolerance, the likes of which simply did not exist in Europe. Instead, Capuchin and Jesuit missionaries went into Tibet around 1700, seeking converts, at which they were not particularly successful; eventually the missions were scrapped. One of the Jesuit's logs indicates he spent a lot of time trying to learn Tibetan language and the beliefs of Buddhism, and while he did get a lot of it down, he was simply unable to comprehend the Void.

    Linear minds are unable to do so.

    In those loose articles from the TS, there is a figure given about outsiders who applied to be chelas, disciples, of the Masters. They had instituted a seven-year probationary period for this. Seventy-two people applied for it, but only three of them did not fail their probation, and only one achieved the full result. HPB was offered the "messenger" role for only one reason: she had the highest-functioning astral senses of anyone in Europe. This offer came when she was twenty, and was contingent upon her spending time in Tibet.

    Well, she obviously spent time as a medium, and went through a lot of other things that only represent a person struggling with circumstances. The only reason that she was eventually successful, was that, despite all the problems and setbacks, she never gave up, never doubted or repudiated, never mentally flinched from the purpose. It had nothing to do with her being perfect or infallible. It was the iron will of resolve to endure numerous brushes with death, all kinds of public humiliation, any chance to have an easy or even a normal life, for much longer than seven years. If she had thought, even once, that Morya was a waste of time, the whole thing would have collapsed.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Bastille Day

    There was a situation that was considerably more complicated, than that of the American Revolution, in France. In the Enlightenment era, basically all of the elements of intellectual history and the issues we still face today, emerged onto the world stage. The places in which you could speak about "enlightened" ideals were fairly restricted; your private homes, or, a privately-owned social lodge. Industrialization was coming, but most people were quite poor paying some 50% of their wages to the establishment, who did whatever they wanted with it.

    The unseen, monolithic force that worked its way through to demolish tyranny, was not the Illuminati, but it was, in the opinion of WQJ and HPB, the nameless individual called the Count of St. Germain.

    The reason he had any relation to the Himalayan Lodge, was not really because he was a chela, but he was one of those rare individuals like Thomas Vaughan who was genius enough to crack alchemical knowledge into the level of the Masters, and they became aware of it and initiated some sort of link. But mostly he acted independently.

    There are not official records of the Count, everything about him is based on personal memoirs (such as Cassanova wrote), and of course those can range anywhere from questionable to slander. Whereas many people claimed to have seen him after he supposedly died, others claim he became a teaching Master, HPB and WQJ never claimed to have met him or known anything about him. However, they were quite possibly able to have seen memoirs that were never printed, such as the Adhemars'.

    Her great-grandfather was a major general in tsarist forces around 1796-1798, which, in terms of his "future map", St. Germain would have had to convey that after his reported death, and well after the Revolution started. Otherwise he was in Russia 1762, installing Catherine the Great, but the Prince would have been about seven years old then. No telling when it dropped in the Russian's library.

    Tsarists later forged "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to discredit the Jews. It was a slight alteration of "Dialogue between Montesqiu and Machiavelli in Hell".

    It is hard to tell what the Count might have done, since it must have been set well ahead of time. He was not a Mason, but they too came to look at him as a guide. It looks like he envisioned an Industrial Age where people could find work and afford the things being made, with a big leash on the power of the church and the government. In the process, he probably found out the Terror would happen, and it was too late.

    The 1782 Masonic Convention at Wilhelmsbad was a continental get-together, the Illuminati recruited there but were not very successful. It mostly marked the beginning of the end for the Strict Observance Rite. The Philaletheans (Martinists) also recruited there, the Lodge of Savalette Langes who was instrumental in the French Revolution. This group and the Philadelphes or Philadelphians who sprung forth later were the main revolutionary force, at least as far as Masons go. Masons overall tried to suppress the Terror and many found themselves at the guillotine. St. Germain had been gone from France for many years and was mostly in Germany. It's possible he could have influenced Savalette at the conventions, but otherwise he seems to have been done with France by this time.

    The Philaletheans soon called their own convention around 1785. They were trying to get Cagliostro to take charge, but he insisted upon using Egyptian Rite and told them they would have to burn all their own literature. So this didn't work out.

    They would probably be the core of "French conspiracies", however, much as the goal of the American Revolution was to replace the government, so was the French; it was not to ruin or destroy the country.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    India in Greece, or, Truth in Mythology

    That is a book from around 1862 which looks at very similar ideas to those promoted by the TS shortly thereafter. Specifically, India being the core from which most of the Western civilizations descended. One interesting point is that the author states that Lukshur, or Lookshoor, in Balochistan is the parent city of Luxor, Egypt. It is about forty miles west of Bela, at 26,14 N and 65,52 E. The same road is still there on a modern map. No Lukshur, and so far I have not found a correspondence in lists of archaeological sites.

    HPB has rephrased this statement into an assertion that the Brotherhood of Lukshur, being an ancient and primary branch of the Great Lodge, was the parent of the Brotherhood of Luxor, which she encountered in Egypt, likely in the guise of Paolos Metamon. It's not exactly the same as the HB of L, the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, formed in Europe, which she delved into and eventually left.

    Europe's spiritual orphanage was totally self-inflicted. The Roman state wiped out the druids, not on a religious basis, but because they could have been a threat. They actually admired the druids, who had a 20 year training period, which was generally held to be the same body of knowledge as all the other ancient colleges. Then when the Roman church became powerful, it literally started wiping out such colleges and killing people for thinking--starting around 396 by destroying Eleusis, then the Serapeum, and in 414 the murder of Hypatia, last High Priestess of Neo-Platonic Theurgy. In the subsequent Dark Age, centuries later, "Emperor" Charlemagne was barely able to learn how to sign his name.

    The Antiochian Syriac Church from around the year 37 claimed the primacy of Peter for itself, and denied it to Rome. The Church of the East spread non-violently all the way to China. Many of the Eastern churches believed in Nestorianism, which says that Jesus was fully human and a separate nature from Christ which was fully divine. As this implies that it was a human being who died on the cross, it eliminates the doctrine of Vicarious Atonement--so it's called a heresy. Prophet Mohammed was raised in a Nestorian community.

    The opposite of the Dark Age would be Enlightenment, from a Renaissance, or rebirth of everything they used to have, but had discarded. There was one temporarily in Spain, but it didn't stick around. There were always individuals and small communities, but it was difficult and dangerous, as the people of southern France found out when the Albigensian Crusade slew them in the thousands.

    In 1409, the Buddhist reformer Tson kha pa founded Ganden monastery. The TS lore attributes him with the impulse of centennial attempts to provide "spiritual messengers" to the West in an attempt to lift the Dark Age for the general public.

    This appears to have been set in motion around 1438 when the Byzantine Gemistos Plethon was the first to publicly introduce Neo-Platonism in about 900 years. It took place at the Platonic Academy of Lorenzo Medici. This is well-known as a source of strength for all things Renaissance. One of the brightest participants was Pico della Mirandola. He says he found a treasure trove of ancient wisdom in the old Etruscan town of Perugia, which had managed to remain independent of the papacy.

    Although the Academy crumbled after they died, according to Kenneth MacKenzie, around 1498 their knowledge rebounded in the group called Fratres Lucis. This was considered a branch of the Brotherhood of Luxor. What this group actually was, is somewhat unclear, and the name was later recycled in Germany and by MacKenzie himself. MacKenzie was intitiated into it around 1850 in Hungary by Count Aponyi, a Secret Chief of the order.

    It had been much more successful in Eastern Europe; in the 1500s, Emperor Rudolf II (reigned 1576-1612) made Prague a center for Alchemy and Astrology in a fairly mainstream way. Whatever FL was, is fairly difficult to trace, as outside of Prague and Hungary, you would face the Inquisition and eventually the Jesuits--this being the major need for secret societies and codes and the like.

    HPB claims that St. Martin, Mesmer, Cagliostro, and St. Germain were all in FL, and puts them on a pedestal above all their contemporaries. At that point, it starts getting a little dangerous as there are more records available, and of course the controversy from the revolutionary activity.

    St. Germain blamed the 1756 Treaty of Versailles for the troubles of Europe. In 1760, Louis XV sent him on a peace mission to the Hague. While there, he addressed another huge issue, France's war debt to the East India Company. He negotiated with the directors Adrian and Thomas Hope and possibly pledged his own credit to get the country some more cash. A Saxon minister, M. de Kauderbach, reported that St. Germain told him a further problem was the weakness of the king against the Paris-Duverney banking brothers, who would not hesitate to kill France for money.

    Cagliostro came around shortly after that. HPB found out he was not the forger Giuseppe Balsamo, an accusation by a spy/blackmailer named Theveneau de Morande, who later retracted the story. His parentage was unknown and he was called Acharat, raised in Arabia by a mentor named Althotas. In 1766, they went to Malta, where Althotas donned the insignia of the Knights of Malta and Grand Master Pinto initiated Acharat into the order, giving him the name Cagliostro. Two years later, the Grand Master expelled the Jesuits and converted their wealth into the University of Malta. Cagliostro wound up with a wife named Lorenza Feliciani, who was the source of his troubles, being a tool of the Jesuits.

    In 1776, St. Germain went to meet Mesmer, who was considered the 18th century "Eastern messenger". Mesmer was the one who got the child prodigy Mozart taken seriously. He also had Haydn as a regular at his palace, and was a fan of the "glass spheres" of Kirchner. After this meeting, Mesmer left the palace and went full-time as a healer.

    Around 1780, a Jewish-tolerant FL was founded by von Ecker, which included the "messiah" Sabbatai Zevi, infamous for the "Sabbatean Frankists".

    In 1782, the convent of the Strict Observance at Wilhelmsbad asked many Masons all the important questions. The only answer they figured out was that the Strict Observance was spurious, as they had no real Templar heritage. However, at this time, one participant, Count de Virieu, sensed a conspiracy neither church nor monarch will withstand. He didn't write a book, he just made one statement, so there are no further details.

    1785 was another large, pivotal Masonic conference, started by Savalette des Langes--the one who had asked Cagliostro to be the head of the Philalethes, which never happened. St. Martin and Mesmer were too busy to go to it. After asking many continental masons all the big questions, no answers were resolved. Around the same time, Cagliostro was implicated then acquitted in the "Diamond Necklace Affair"--kind of a straw that broke the camel's back. Given the condition of France, no one was very happy that the royals would be shelling out over a million francs for a piece of jewelry.

    A person called Ernst von Gochhausen then created a book called "Revelations about the cosmopolitan political system" which predicted the French Revolution by Masons, Illuminati, and Jesuits. I don't think he was at this convention, not sure what lodge he belonged to; the text is online, in German blackletter.

    Nicholas Bonneville, impressed by J J C Bode of the Bavarian Illuminati, started a newsletter called "The Tribune of the People" which called for a citizens' militia, and was among the first to offer to take the Bastille. He was a disciple of St. Martin and friend of Thomas Paine, and opposed to the Terror. He also wrote "The Jesuits expelled from Masonry" and "Broken Dagger by Masons" from an experience in English Masonry, where he denounced the Jesuits as promoters of the Templar myth and doctrine of revenge.

    This is wildly mythical, but, especially once the bad background ends, here is a glimpse of Pinto suggesting at the time at least, Knights of Malta were Johannites and magic users. Depicted as within Catholicism, but largely independent from the Pope, unlike the Jesuits. In those stories, Pinto is shown as having a friendship with St. Germain, and they thwarted an infiltration by Weishaupt and others, making warnings about money men and priests. The knights were eventually defeated by Napoleon who was also against financiers.

    1530 was the Maltese Falcon when they were granted Malta by H. R. E. Charles V (reigned 1519-1554), one of the most powerful and complex people. Charles IV (reigned 1355-1378) was the one who opened Prague's walls to Alchemy which, according to Om Times, is associated with ley lines, seven hills and a rosy cross. In 1348, he already granted a charter for the University of Florence, according to Conciatore, a Florentine alchemy tradition.

    That's kind of...the "tip of the iceberg" of secret societies becoming a little more public. There was no consensus among them, no real central control. People definitely needed to dig their way out from a millenium of being killed for thinking and the equally harsh tyranny of most of the monarchs. This natural and inevitable result of the accumulated injustice was a good beginning; but then was used as a foot stool by banks and corporations to become the new kings. Even HPB recognized that the liberties granted by revolution had descended into "oppression of the people by the people". She simply couldn't stand politics, considering it "the false of the false" and pitied a diplomat whose job was basically to go out and tell lies all day. So she left it alone.

    As far as her being some kind of spy or banker's agent, when one of the Sassoons in India offered her a huge pile of money to put on a magic show, she basically told him to bite it.

    She kept up her teachings until two weeks before dying miserably. Where she was actually going, was unlike anything else that anyone in Europe or America was doing. It was going into kundalini and kriyashakti, which, roughly, is the "power of the gods": the ability to make a mental picture and cause it to happen, or to create something. As a proponent of Raja Yoga, the method had nothing to do with Hatha Yoga or pranayama, the "breathing exercises". She wanted to teach the "kundalini of the heart", which is something different from the physical kundalini of the lower spine. So this is also different from most of the popular Indian methods.
    Last edited by shaberon; 29th September 2018 at 07:19.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Quote Posted by Enola (here)
    Helena Blavatsky was dodgy. I mean, just look at her.

    Definitely a lot of disinfo, and judging by her books, she came from a pretty dark place. Lots of darkside/left-hand stuff in her books. But a lot of truth too. Not that different from these days.
    The Plagiarisms Of Madame Blavatsky

    http://rense.com/general66/blav.htm
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Coleman has also been refuted:

    https://blavatskytheosophy.com/was-b...-a-plagiarist/

    As far as disinformation, I've already dredged out the fact that Isabel Cooper-Oakley (ICO) was hosed by a forgery about St. Germain (Lamothe-Langon who published in Adhemar's name), which is more of an understandable mistake, than an attempt to deceive. The point of "rense" appears to be more devil scare and "Illuminati-religion", which is the echo of British Fascism as previously mentioned. The TS material is, nominally, totally plagiaristic, as it is not supposed to be anything original, but a review of all the old traditions. Europe by no means needed anyone to "revive an interest in the occult"--that took place in the Renaissance. If anything, the TS was kind of putting a leash on it, trying to sift the genuine from the spurious, and chiefly, to put an Eastern stamp on it. If they need to be blamed for promoting Eastern doctrines (karma and reincarnation) when everyone around there figured it was inferior and ignorant, then we would remain with a judgmental god and sempiternity.

    I've tried going over that Coleman angle, as well as the Coulomb stuff, the Society for Psychical Research, and K. Paul Johnson, none of it really holds water.

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    Default Re: The Serpent, the Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Coleman has also been refuted:

    https://blavatskytheosophy.com/was-b...-a-plagiarist/

    As far as disinformation, I've already dredged out the fact that Isabel Cooper-Oakley (ICO) was hosed by a forgery about St. Germain (Lamothe-Langon who published in Adhemar's name), which is more of an understandable mistake, than an attempt to deceive. The point of "rense" appears to be more devil scare and "Illuminati-religion", which is the echo of British Fascism as previously mentioned. The TS material is, nominally, totally plagiaristic, as it is not supposed to be anything original, but a review of all the old traditions. Europe by no means needed anyone to "revive an interest in the occult"--that took place in the Renaissance. If anything, the TS was kind of putting a leash on it, trying to sift the genuine from the spurious, and chiefly, to put an Eastern stamp on it. If they need to be blamed for promoting Eastern doctrines (karma and reincarnation) when everyone around there figured it was inferior and ignorant, then we would remain with a judgmental god and sempiternity.

    I've tried going over that Coleman angle, as well as the Coulomb stuff, the Society for Psychical Research, and K. Paul Johnson, none of it really holds water.
    Great response, clearly you have done your homework. Thank you.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    Vernaianawa (5th March 2018)

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